I grew one MD plant this year. No real problems except thick skins, probably from the heat. Wasn't too impressed with the flavor.

Well ,I did take a bite out of a few and the taste was great .

OK, I give up, what are Pox and Flex? LOL

The original seeds came to me from Andrey in Belarus who also sent them to Tania.

And from the link below you can see how many seed sites offer this variety which is an indication of the popularity of Moravsky Div.

Early as can be, great taste, and note where Tania says probably related to Stupice. There was a very long thread elsewhere where lots of folks went digging into the background, Andrey participated as well, and the conclusion was that it probably is almost a Stupice lookalike if not related directly to Stupice. But many of us think the taste is better than Stupice.

Glenn Drowns at Sandhill Preservation notes that "Surpisingly, had ripe fruit in about 40 days from 4 inch transplants."

Not everyone will have fruits that quickly, but it is IMO and the opinions of many others, a great tasting early one.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Moravsky Div

Once I got past this years thick skins the flavor was good. I was looking for a Stupice replacement, and hoping to test the '40 days from 4" transplants' thing. Sandhill must have had stupendous growing conditions for that to happen....I wasn't even close. I got my seeds from Gleckler, so I'm assuming they were good. In general the MD were bigger than Stupice and the color was more orange, and the flavor was much different, and IMO the plant is semi-determinate. I set my big (6" at least) transplants out on May 1. They were protected a couple weeks until the weather relaxed. They grew like crazy and I had fruit set by June. The weather was good, but they took forever to ripen....the first one on July 5, but the next one took another week to ripen. Usually I can get a Stupice in June. Maybe it was just a weird growing year, but I'll probably go back to Stupice next year. I'm hooked on the Stupice flavor. Just my .02 ;-)

Ed, I forget where you are in true upstate NY, I assume. LOL, but I never could get a Stupice in June, no way.

And if you like Stupice you really should try Matina, which is a look alike down to PL foliage, but tastes better to me.

Still, I prefer the taste and production of Moravsky Div, and yes, I was the source of seeds to Adam Gleckler as I have been for many of the varieties he lists. Adam's grandfather first started Gleckler Seedmen in the 40's then it passed to George, Adam's father, and when I first started growing heirloom varieties in the early 80's the only two good places to get heirlooms was Gleckler's and Seeds Blum, which went out of business.

Adam decided to go into business for himself and still works full time for the family concrete business, but if he has any questions, his father George is always there to help. When I first became aware that Adam had restarted the business I put up a thread elsewhere and asked for donations of seeds and the emphasis, it was decided, would be on more rare, harder to get varieties. It was a huge sucess so we did it for a second year and now he's off an runing, so to speak.with a wonderful list of great varieties. LOL

Carolyn, who notes that as George inherited the tomato info genes from his father, so did Adam inherit the tomato genes from his father George. ( smile)

Carolyn, Thanks for the comments.

Yes, I am in true upstate NY, just north of Syracuse, in Central Square. I usually start my Stupice around the end of March (no earlier than the 15th,) and like to have them outside by May 1. I use WOW's, which, for the few plants that I have, work well for me. Year before last I actually had a Stupice tomato set in the WOW. As soon as the temperatures relax a little, I remove the WOW. I can usually get 1 ripe Stupice by July 1 if I try real hard.

I tried Matina the first year after buying your book, along with Stupice and the plant was huge, and I liked it, but still have to vote for Stupice.

To be honest, that first June Stupice that I tried was my first attempt at growing heirlooms after buying your book and it was the first heirloom I ever tasted, and it was awesome! I can still remember that moment to this day, and I think I will be biased toward Stupice forever. A lot better than the Early Girls I had been growing to that point.

A few years ago I lived in Z4, and one year had my tomatoes out by late April. I had photos of WOW's with snow on them, and I've had the water in them freeze solid. Never have lost a plant "yet."

I apologize for semi-hijacking the thread.

Sorry to hijack this thread but...
What do you guys consider "true upstate NY"?

I was born in Geneva and lived there for several years. Later on lived in Syracuse, Tonawanda and Henderson. When asked, I've always said I was from upstate NY.

In the past few years I've been told (mostly by people not even from the region) that I'm not from true upstate NY.
Where am I from? Has my mother been lying to me all these years?

That's hilarious! IMO you are definitely from upstate NY. I'm not sure where the difference came from, but having been fortunate to have lived in Manhattan for 10 years, people there call everything north of NYC "upstate NY." To me everything north of NYC is just suburbs until you get pretty far north....to true upstate NY!! I guess when I start seeing cows and corn fields, that's a sign.

For anyone living in the city any place above NYC/Westchester Co is upstate. LOL

But true upstate follows the Hudson River up to its source and beyond and the areas adjacent to it such as Albany, Schenectady, Troy, going up routes 9 and 22 and the Northway including Saratoga, Lake George, Lake Champlain, etc.,all the way to the Canadian border and the St Lawrence River.

Any place WEST of about Schenectady along the Mohawk River, going through Cherry Valley, Amsterdam, Syracuse, Rochester out to Buffalo all along the Thruway is called WESTERN NYS.

Got it? ( smile)

I live in true upstate NY along the VT border above Cambridge and if I go to the end of the road it deadends at the base of Egg MT and if I could get over Egg MT I'd slide down into Manchester VT.

So often in the paper they say this or that politico is touring in western NYS or closer to me, no wood can be brought from western NYS to parts East b'c of the importation of this or that borer or whatever. And they've started road blocks now in the village of Lake George and other areas to check for permits indicating the source of the firewood and giving out huge fines if a person has no permit with the wood source given.

Carolyn, home owner in true upstate NY. ( smile)

Got it? ( smile)
Carolyn, home owner in true upstate NY.
( smile)
I respect your tomato wisdom, but I was born and raised there. Where are you from?

Got it? ( smile)
Carolyn, home owner in true upstate NY.
( smile) I respect your tomato wisdom, but I was born and raised there. Where are you from?

*****

I was born in Troy, NY which is on the east side of the Hudson and raised on a farm in Loudonville, NY which is situated just a bit north of Albany which is on the west side of the Hudson River.

And I know Geneva well since when I was at that University on the hill above Cayuga Lake we'd go on field trips to Geneva for this and that for some of the classes I took at the time. And later I knew it well b'c the USDA plant station for tomatoes is there as are the labs for the scientists who work on tomato genetics, mostly, and got to know a couple of them very well over the years.

Geneva is a very beautiful area, but they never should have sited the tomato growouts there, I mean the USDA part of it. ( smile) And that b'c of the weather as well as limited space so varieties were grown with zero spacing between them. I understand that the situation with regards to the tomato growouts is better now than when my best tomato friend and I were at the time still able to request varieties via the PC GRIN. Due to abuse of the system the public can no longer do so.

Sorry for the off topic discussion, but if I was going to discuss where I was born and raised, as you asked me to do, I thought I'd speak to Geneva as well which is where you were born.

And now back to our regular programming.

Carolyn

Road blocks checking firewood going into Lake George? OMG! Last year we brought a load of firewood from upstate NY (:-)) down to NYC. My wife was nervous about transporting the wood that far. I told her she had nothing to worry about. Yikes! Good thing they didn't have state troopers posted at the Tappan Zee Bridge like they do at hunting season.

Now, back to regular programming.

Once again, sorry to continue the hijack.

When I re-read last nights upstate NY discussion, I realized that my response "I respect your tomato wisdom, but I was born and raised there. Where are you from?" may have sounded somewhat rude and/or demanding That was not the way I intended the question to come across.

I'm a horrible 2 fingered typist and often don't express myself well in forums because of my limited keyboard skills.

CArolyn 137 ,are you serious you don't know what Pox and Flex are ? And yet to laugh about it. Well you could take a break from patting your self on the back for all the tomatoes you grew,introduced,named and gave birth to,sent seeds of ,new the parents of etc. to Google search,
When ever someone has a question that you know nothing about, you still chime in even when you dont have an answer just to embelish one of your 40 year old accomplishments.I 've ben sick of it for along time as I know others have ,who are too afraid of speaking for fear of getting booted off .Oh werent you a founding member too ?.I am going to get booted ,but I wanted to speak formyself and the ones too afraid to open their mouths.By the way here is a link to educate yourself on Pox and Flex so next time you can chime in with something a tad useful

Here is a link that might be useful: Learn about Pox and Flex

Dickie,
It's only a tomato discussion forum. You may need to check with your doctor about changing the dosage of those meds.

dickie.......you should have paused before sending such a rageful hurtful rant. We're all trying to do our best. Carolyn certainly meant nothing by it. She is good natured. If I read something that I don't like, it's 'usually' in MY interpretation of it, not the intention of the poster. Instead of slamming her with your anger, you could have shared something useful with her, and I'm sure she would have apreciated it. No one's perfect. You might or might not get booted off. I can't answer for that. But you certainly are marked. Maybe you should consider an apology.

CArolyn 137 ,are you serious you don't know what Pox and Flex are ? And yet to laugh about it. Well you could take a break from patting your self on the back for all the tomatoes you grew,introduced,named and gave birth to,sent seeds of ,new the parents of etc. to Google search,

*****

I know Flex as Gold Fleck, not flex.

Yes, I know Fruit Pox as well, but just couldn't connect the two to your MDiv title and since no photos were shown to illustrate that. And just b'c, I've never seen Gold Fleck nor Fruit Pox on any of the MDiv plants that I've grown.

TO me it's interesting that neither of those conditions has adequately been described as to a proven origin,but a good Gold Fleck variety is Depp's Pink Firefly, and it's remained stable for that variety, but Gold Fleck can come and go and not be heritable

So yes, at first I did LOL it, b'c Flex to me is Gold Fleck, I have several links in my faves about it.

And yes, I suppose I sometime do pat myself on the back but mainly living to the age I am and still being active on a couple of message sites trying to help people with questions. And I mean help and trying to always do it nicely.

And yes, when someone posts about a variety and it's one that I originally did introduce I often do say so, but not all the time, b'c then I can give the history of where I got it from b/c that seems to interest quite a few folks, and besides, I like to keep track of what some folks think of what I call my tomato kids.

Back in the years 2003, 04 and 05, things got nasty here at GW, anyone who was here during those years knows that, and it's one of the reasons that someone who was here at the time set up a new message site in Jan of 06 and a good number of folks switched at that time. A few come back here from time to time, myself included, but if things get nasty here again, I'm gone in a NY minute, as I have recently with a couple of other message sites. I want no part of tomato politics, no intertribal warfare between message sites, and prefer a site or two where courtesy in posting is extended to everyone.

Carolyn

Been doing this for 40+ years, and I've never run across "Pox" and "Flex" before. Learn something new every so often!

Lots of 100+ temps here in Indiana this summer, but my toms. never had anything unusual happen. Grown on 4' black plastic and watered weekly, though. Virtually no cracking until the rains came back in August.

-WC2K8