Return to the Growing Tomatoes Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Cherokee Purple

Posted by Hudson...WY 3 (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 15, 13 at 11:03

The ripe tomato in this photo was picked a few weeks ago but the rest are how the plant looks today in our October snow storm in Wyoming - inside our GH. This Cherokee Purple is our last tomato plant standing - we planted the start in July - much later than the rest of our tomato plants which I already pulled the last of September.

I am impressed with Cherokee Purple's tomato size, plant vigor, the ability of the plant to thrive with varying temperatures during a 24 hour period (we don't heat the GH but it still maintains a low of not less than around 40 degrees) and of course - taste! The Cherokee Purple appears to be a good choice for a hardy great tasting tomato with a respectable yield!

 photo IMG_1866_zpscc93e7d8.jpg


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

H...I am sorta a newbie to serious tomato growing. However, this year my container maters were all good...but the CP was great! It simply was delicious. Production was good, as well. The Brandywine was good but not comparable. I know what you mean....


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

This is a favorite tomato of many. :)


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Reason to BUMP: I like to read more about Cherokee Purple.
In another thread, some people had given bad reviews on it. I think, maybe, it is the growing conditions that make a difference. Then of course, we all have personal taste and preferences.

It has been quite few years since I hag CP in my garden. Last year I had Black Krim. But it did not do well at all. So the next season I will not grow BK and will plant CP in its place.

So lets talk about its growing habits, how to take care of it, etc.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

I have been tempted to try Black Krim but chose to grow CP just from reading comments about CP on this forum (nothing against BK). I do want to try BK but would like to try a few other varieties first.

After growing CP for the first time this last season - IMO - tomato lovers should try CP at least once. It is too good of a tomato to go untried! As for the care - growing tomatoes in a garden may have a different set of challenges than that of a GH. We found the CP very easy to grow in our GH and they did not require any special care other than the treatment we gave all of our tomato plants.

Why did you stop growing CPs? I know in our GH - when we find a great plant - we keep growing it unless/until we find a better one to replace it. This coming season - Brandy boy, Better Boy and CP have earned their spot in our GH. We have already ordered our 2014 seeds and decided to try Cherokee Chocolate, Cherokee Green, Mortgage Lifter and Indian Stripe as experimental tomato plants in 2014 - we only plant one start of each experimental variety to see how they perform.

Having seen so many different photos of CP - and seeing how different the fruit can look - I do hope we have the right seed source to achieve our desired outcome - we will soon find out.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Thanks Hudson.

I was in the process of moving and re locating, last few years. So my gardening was on the hold. And last year I bough seedlings from here and there and did not see CP being sold anywhere. This year I will start from seed myself.

I have a question : Why did not you save your own seeds for CP ?. I think it is a heirloom, not a hybrid. I have saved seeds from store bought.
Heirlooms can be different, depending where the seeds come from, as they are mostly Open Pollinated. I can tell this from BK. Way back I remember its fruits were quite large but the last one had fruits size of a base ball. .


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

That is a good question seysonn. I have never given it a try - although I did watch a few videos on youtube about saving seeds and it did not look that difficult. Do you save your heirloom seeds? What is your process for saving seeds?

I wished I had saved seeds from our CP because I loved the fruit from the plant we grew last season. Because it was so late in the season when I finally decided to grow a CP and because no one in our area sells CP starts - I ordered them from Burpee as starts. But - like you - I will plant them from seed this coming February and move them out to our GH in April. If I purchase the seeds from Burpee the outcome should approximate the same?

What is your source for heirloom seeds? I did already purchase some heirloom seeds from Tomato Growers - hope they are a good source!

 photo image_zps9203e4b6.jpg


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Hi Hudson

About Saving Tomato seeds:

There are two ways: ONE: You just get the seeds out of the fruit. Wash it real good until the jell around the seeds comes off. Then just spread them on paper towel and let it dry at room temperature. Then store it in the frig.

TWO: You ferment them:
Squeeze the seeds along with the juice into a cup/glass. Cover it and keep it in a slightly warmer location for several days UNTIL you see white mold on the top. Stir it give it another day or two.

By the principles of fermentation, the bad bacteria and maybe virus are destroyed. (as in fermenting for pickling)

Now, pour all that fermented stuff into a tall glass, stir it. Good seed will settle down right away. Now pour the floating stuff out. Add more water and repeat a few times. You will end up with clear water with some good seeds at the bottom. Those are the seeds you want to save. Drying , storing is the same as method one.

About Heirloom seed source.
There are a lot of internet sources. Tomato Growers should be fine. You can also get into seed swap thread and ask for some seeds. Even if you do not have anything to trade, chances are that someone will give you what you want. Unfortunate I do not have anything worthwhile to offer. I have saved mine from store/farmers Market bought tomatoes, without a name. I just used my guts judgement .


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

By the principles of fermentation, the bad bacteria and maybe virus are destroyed. (as in fermenting for pickling)

&&&&&&

Actually what fermention does is to lower some of the fungal pathogens that adhere to the outer seed coat. Bacterial and viral pathogens are in the endosperm of the seed so are not affected.

Fementation does not eliminate all fungal pathogens, just lowers it, but infection is quantitative so with a lesser number of pathogens it's less likely that those fungal diseases will be passed on.

I think there are as many waysof saving seed as there are persons doing it, so no sense my going through what I do when fermenting seeds.

There are good instructions at.

Tania's T-base website
Victory Seeds

to name just two.

And places to buy seeds is long indeed.

Tomato Growers is good then you've got:

Tania's website
Sandhill Preservation
Heritage Seeds in CA
Casey's Heirlooms in Canada
Double Helix
J and L Gardens
Tradewinds
Seed Savers Public catalog
Pinetree, for al esser number of seeds which means lower costs, but they don't carry as many tomato heirlooms as the ones above,

...... and many more

A search here for where to buy seeds will bring up many sites, in addition to the ones I mentioned above.

Opinions vary on which ones are best in terms of getting pure seed, I know the owners of the above ones, except for Tradewinds,so feel comfortable listing those others.

No place is perfect since when dealing with OP seed production, X pollinations, etc., can happen, and do,

Hope that helps,

Carolyn


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Thanks to both of you! Very helpful information - I will do some reading from your references.

Just a couple of clarifications though in case I don't find it in my reading.
What is the window for saving seeds from the tomato? Does the tomato have to be ripe - can it be too ripe?
The first method to save seeds seems so much easier - just wash them - dry them on a paper towel and store then in the fridge. I guess the main drawback to this method is they have to be refrigerated until planted?


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

What is the window for saving seeds from the tomato? Does the tomato have to be ripe - can it be too ripe? (Hudson)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Like in breeding mammals, stronger, healthier male and females will have a tendency to produce better off springs, same is true in the plants kingdom.

So, save seeds , PREFERABLY, from the strongest, healthiest plant and the best ripe fruits from it. Planting inferior seeds(of any thing) can result in an inferior plant.

As far as the WINDOW of time, I do not know, But IMO as long as the fruit is of normal appearance and ripe you can save seeds from it. Obviously, there can be seeds of varying degree of viability.. Like, the small thin ones that we can even tell by the naked eye. To get around this you would want to sow more seeds than you need. Those that did not germinate the nature eliminated them. Those that germinate too late or produce weak seedlings, YOU eliminate them.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Regardless of how you process your seeds they do not have to be put in the fridge until those seeds are sowed,

Use any kind of small containers for them, I've used vials, and lots of mine are just stored in normal letter envelopes not sealed.

And stored not in the fridge but just at normal ambient temps. If you live in a climate where humidity is high, it's best not to leave them out but in WY you don't have to worry about long term storage at ambient temps.

If you are saving lotsof seed for some reason, you can freeze them, but NOT until you get the moisture level down of those seeds before freezing them, if you don't do that the seeds will be destroyed,

Window to harvest fruits? Fully ripe ones are best, overripe is OK, any halfripe ones, just let them ripen up.

Seeds are mature when the fruits have color about half way up the fruit.

Carolyn


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Thanks for the info!! I should have been saving seeds years ago - but then again - we just built the GH about 5 years ago and last season was the first that we grew heirlooms. I am excited to try CP (again), CC, CG and IS this year - oh, and ML - and now - I am into saving seeds.

 photo image_zps940b1b17.jpg

This post was edited by Hudson...WY on Tue, Nov 26, 13 at 9:59


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

As Steve Irwin used to say: What a little BEAUTY!!!!

Cherokee Purple was very early for me this growing season and the taste was divine. It will definitely be invited back in 2014.

Linda


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

About when to save tomato seeds. Here is a quote from the link below.

The simple answer:
Anytime the tomato fruit develops a gel around the seed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Seed Saving Conventions


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Tom is one of the few folks I know who successfully gets mature seeds out of unripe fruits, but then he has so many crosses going at one time that he needs very few seeds.

And he also uses TSP to extract the seeds and TSP is a very strong oxidative/corrosive agent which is why I never suggest it for home use.

Yes,I've known Tom since 1990 and met him several years ago, when he was still living in Bakersfield, CA and drove down from there to Pasadena to meet me where I was doing a dog and pony show for the then Hortus Nursery in Pasadena.

He's a fast talker and so am I so it was non-stop many hours of discussing tomatoes. ( smile)

I also trialed for him about 22 varieties back in the 90's and one of my faves is still Verde Claro, but these days there are other small ones with a clear epidermis such as Green Doctors Frosted and a coupleof others.

Carolyn


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

That was amazing Tom.

Thanks for sharing!

Linda


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

What did I miss Linda.

Is there are Tom posting here in this thread or were you thanking Tom Wagner kind of in absentia? ( smile)

Carolyn


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

You're right Carolyn,

I ASSumed that Gvozdika was Tom, and didn't realize that s/he was simply posting a link.

Thanks Gvozdika!

Linda


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Linda, I am certainly not Tom :) Sorry for confusion. It was a quote from Tom's message. I recently translated it for a Russian tomato forum and thought that people here might find it interesting too. It's good to know that seeds can be saved from 'green' tomatoes in case of emergency.

I wish Tom Wagner would write a book. He seems like a wealth of information and a generous person to share it.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Carolyn, what is your thought on saving seeds from mature-green tomatoes? Do you think it won't work?
I just extracted seeds from a mature-green tomato from a volunteer plant killed by frost (I took the fruit just a night before the frost.) I don't have TSP so I'm fermenting. Tried to squish the seeds out of the gel, they won't quit.

Thank you.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Gvozdika,

I was in that situation last year. I bought a Black Krim plant at a nursery quite late in the season, only because I wanted to harvest its seeds. It took ages to produce any fruit and when it did, I left it on the plant as long as I dared, then I had to pick it because a hard frost was forecast. It was still green when I picked it, and I wasn't sure whether I could save the seed from an unripe tomato or whether it would mature. Amazingly, it did mature (and tasted delicious). I saved the seeds and grew Black Krims this past summer.

Good luck with your seeds. You could always do a germination test with one or two seeds just to see if they are viable.

Linda


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

:) I bought a Black Krim plant in the middle of this summer. It finally started to set fruit at the end of August. But then we had strong winds (this is the first year we live here and I had no idea what to expect), they damaged the plant. I wish I would leave it where it was but I moved it away from the wind, it caught some fungal disease there and the fruits were too green to save seed from.
I will do the germination test on all of these seeds. It is a volunteer from some grocery bought tomatoes which don't have much taste (but my red wigglers love them, unfortunately, they spit the seeds :) So it is all just for an experiment, to see how it works. Thanks.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

I bought some tomato seeds from tradeswindfruit this fall. This is the first time I've bought commercial tomato seeds (I am very new to growing tomatoes :) I sorted out the tiniest seeds and am sowing them now. So far 100% germination, it just takes them a while until they get their first true leaves, then they speed up.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

My thoughts on saving seeds from unripe tomatoes?

Negative.

Tom is commercial, he's about the only one I know who does it and he has to use TSP( tri sodium phosphate), which I won't and most others won't either. He almost has to use it since he's doing all those crosses and needs just a few seeds to work with the selections he's working with.

Unripe tomatoes have little juice so are not good for fermentation either.

I realize there are times when person wants to save seeds but for we amateurs, it isn't for a business, so I think it's best to just grow that variety again, or, gulp, buy some seeds. ( smile)

I could make a list of folks who are very knowledgable about tomatoes, Tom isn't the only one, but I'm not going to do that. And yes, I mean those who post at message sites, not those who are in academic positions.

Right now I'm trying very hard to get the folks who do seed production for me to send me the 2013 seeds so I can get my act together for my next seed offer, which is elsewhere, and no, I can't say where b/c GW has been known to ban folks who refer to other message sites. Sigh. This site is commercial, with ads, so they don't want folks going elsewhere. It makes it difficult for me and some others I know who post here b'c a simple link can answer a question which saves lots of time having to type out answers. OK, I'm in my former teacher mode now.LOL

It's a beautiful sunny very cold morning here in upstate NY and the woman who does my grocery shopping for me brought a nice T-day dinner for me on Thursday and my neighbor is bringing up yet another dinner today. It's very difficult, although I used to do it, to cook a complete dinner for myself being in this walker so when asked, I say, bring it on. LOL

Carolyn, who has much to be thankful for this T-day weekend since she came very close to going to the tomato gods and goddesses in the sky last May 30th but a superb team of docs pulled her through, so she could post about tomatoes again.( smile)


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Trades Wind Fruit has very few varieties that I am familiar with. What tomato varieties did you decide to plant from Trades Wind? You will have to keep us informed with your progress and results - it will be 2-3 months before we even plant our seeds - so some photos of tomato plants growing through these blizzardy Wyoming winter months will be a welcome site!


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Gvozdika,

Maybe the Red Wigglers will grow their own Black Krim tomatoes in their worm bin (LOL). You never know if the passage thorough their little guts might possibly help with the germination!

Sounds as if your Trade Winds seedlings have a great start with the 100% germination. We look forward to hearing more about your plants as they grow.

Linda


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Carolyn,

Many of us here are very thankful that you pulled through, and that you are still willing and able to come here and share your great tomato wisdom with us all.

Hugs,
Linda


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

TALKING SEEDS ..

Some people talk about "Germination Rate". Maybe they intend eventually to plant every seed they sow. But for me it is not the case. If I am going to grow just 2 of a given variety, I will sow 4 or 5 seeds. This way I will have a good safe probable chance to get at least 2 seedlings going. Then if everything fails, I can re do it a week later.

Right now, I am doing some "Test Germinating". I have started with peppers. So far so good. The seeds that I am testing are all taken from store bought fruits. Maybe I will test some tomato seeds in January.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

I'm the same as you in sowing seed and wanting maybe two plants I'd sow 3 to 4 of fresh seeds. but for me it does strongly depend on the seed age.

When folks refer to a germination rate or percentage what that means to me is if someone sows 4 seeds and two germinate, that's the germination rate/percentage and is 50%.

Carolyn


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Carolyn, thank you for the answer and all the best with your recovery! Your writing is appreciated! I read your posts at another site which I won't mention if it is a problem (and where I was not able to register somehow :) but I've learned a lot from all the good people who posts there. Thank you for your postings and please keep posting!

You are right, the fermentation is going very slowly. I'll try to split the seeds and clean one half with Comet and let another half continue to ferment.
I do understand one of the reasons for extracting seed from an unripe fruit - to get the next generation as quick as possible. Just want to try and see what happens.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Hudson, Black Krim and Cherokee Purple are at the top of my wish list. I hope to get them before this spring.
There are the varieties I received from Tradewinds:
Silvery Fir Tree
Stupice
Tiny Tim
Aunt Ginny's Purple (this one was for a trade but I left a few seeds for myself)
Oregon Spring
Gardener's Delight
Garden Pearl
Black Zebra Cherry (read it does not taste good but will use it for my projects)

I grow in containers, have only a balcony. Right now I have two batches of Tiny Tim three weeks apart. Next weekend I'm going to sow a few seeds of Garden Pearl and Anmore Dewdrop.

About Tradewinds, I saw they have some Tom Wagner's varieties but on Tom's site tomwagnerseeds some of them are described as F4 and there is no mentioning about that on tradewinds.? But they do have great deals :)
Another site to get tomato seeds (for a SASE or donation) is wintersown.org.
Good luck with your tomatoes! And saving tomato seed is kind of fun (I did it even before I decided to grow them :) I'll try to get some pictures of my tomatoes, I found my old phone with a camera but can't find the cord or adapter.


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Linda, I think they have an agenda to grow their own tomato patch in there :)

Moving is like a house fire, I'm still looking for many things, our cameras including. At least I know they are somewhere in the boxes. I'd love to post the pictures, this project keeps me going through the winter :)

seysonn, I hate to throw seeds or plants and I never do. If I get extra seedlings (and I do) I try to find a home for them and it is a great way to meet new people :)
About the germination rate, I'm so bad with it that now if I have a success I count it :) Honestly, I have trouble germination marigolds when other people say it is one of the easiest seeds. I have to germinate them in coffee filters!


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

>>Tom is commercial, he's about the only one I know who does it and he has to use TSP( tri sodium phosphate), which I won't and most others won't either. He almost has to use it since he's doing all those crosses and needs just a few seeds to work with the selections he's working with. <<

Carolyn, I hope you are recovering well! Ungraceful segue: on the topic of being attacked by disease, isn't the purpose of TSP to essentially keep the seeds from rotting before they can develop? Wouldn't that imply if you can get a green tomato to window ripen, you should be able to gather seeds from it, at least as the most convenient home option, but a bacterial bath may worth for sufficiently developed seeds for the rest of us? I found a post from Tom that more or less indicates the real challenge is just separating the viable seed from the useless seed, and keeping it from rotting (or bringing pathogens like TMV).

I'm curious both because I was recently trying to figure out the answer to the question of how soon you can harvest for breeding purposes. By coincidence, I'm growing a Cherokee Purple under lights from a tomato that was given to me by the owner of a local General Store that had been counter ripened. It had JUST barely made first blush at pick though, so that obviously does have some hormonal significance in seed development. I'm curious how quickly I can push through an F1 generation so I can plant out the F2s as soon as possible, cause that sounds like the fun part :)


 o
RE: Cherokee Purple

Tom, uses TSP to get seeds from unripe fruits b'c it's a strong corrosive oxidizing agent, many use it to clean concrete driveways and sidewalks, and tears apart the fleshy parts of a fruit since there isn't any juice inside green fruits, thus releasing the seeds. Always one needs to seperate out the good from bad seeds,just as one has to do so for fermentation or any other method used to produce seeds.

TSP is known to eliminate most on the seed surface that causes TMV ( tobacco mosic virus) but that pathigen is no longer a major problem in the US.

I don't know anyone who would soak seeds in TSP to prevent rotting b'c it would destroy the seeds.

Better to just ripen up some fruits you want to save seeds from, but not on a windowsill, and just ferment them if you want to.

Not on a windowsill since once the fruits are off the vine they dehydrate and the last place you want to put them is in the sun. A cool place on a countertop would be just fine.

Carolyn


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Growing Tomatoes Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here