Go to the link below if you want the full history of the Estler ML

And go to heirloomtomatoes.net to see if Donna retained the info that Chuck Waytt had from the Esters. Chuck passed away in June of 2002

I got my Estler seeds from Chuck many years ago and think it's much better than the Radiator Charlie one, but these days none of the so called strains would be near the top of my preferred large pink beefsteak varieties.

What has drawn so many to the Radiator Charlie one is the story behind it that Jeff McCormack , the previoue owner OF SESE about his interview, and whether that history was taken from the Estler's by Charlie Byles, or not, no one knows bc there
's no documentation to confirm anythig.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: ML Estler

There are a lot of Joyce's Greenhouses, but I don't see any in Kentucky or Ohio. I understand the Estlers lived near Barbourville, but I don't see any likely sources there. Could you send me email (Ohiofem at gmail dot com) or post a little more info?

Thanks for the taking time to share. I appreciate the history from Carolyn as well. Looks like there are lots of MLs out there. Can they all be genetically related?

Happy New Year!

Tatianas listed a source for seeds: heirloomtomators.net. I'm a fool for tomatoes with.a good story, so I ordered some. Thanks again, Carolyn.

Also, I should.note that Barbourton is in W. Virginia, not Kentucky.

Can they all be genetically related?

********

A strain is one where there have been subtle differences in a variety but it can still be IDed as that variety.

What's happened with the ML's and the Brandywines is that someone will list one in the SSE YEarbook with their own name attached and it's no different from the original, whether that be the EStler one or the Charlie Byles one in the case of the ML's.

And the the same thing happens with the Brandywines, with few exceptions.

My fave Brandywine blooper one is the one listed as Brandywine, Pawers, and there is no such variety. What happened is that Roger Wentling of PA listed it and his SSE code is then PA WE R. Got it? LOL

The only way to prove actual genetic relationships between similar varieties is by DNA sequence analysis and that isn't going to happen soon for the ones that we home gardeners grow b'c they're orphans so no one to pay for the DNA work.

Carolyn

Read somewhere that Mr Estler developed the ML in 1922 and Radiator Charlie is given as about ten to twelve yrs later. I have even seen plants with the insert that said improved Radiator Charlie tomato.

is listed on Google for Joyce's Greenhouse at Huntington West Virginia as 304-736-9554. I called and got no answer this morning but it is church time. May be a bus phone for spring only. The address is 4327 Hughes Branch Road, Huntington W.Va on Google. The greenhouse is actually close to Barboursville.

Read somewhere that Mr Estler developed the ML in 1922 and Radiator Charlie is given as about ten to twelve yrs later. I have even seen plants with the insert that said improved Radiator Charlie tomato.

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Yes, the date for the Estler one was given in the link I gave above, as I linked to above and yes, the Radiator Charlie one was about maybe 10 years later, see the link below.

The "improved" one you're referring to is one bred by Jeff McCormack, the former owner of Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, as I recall, but didn't check to confirm that, has VFN bred in but is RED, not pink.

http://www.southernexposure.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=ipfp5pt3t9v4e3cf5dnbj5b6b4&keyword=Mortgage+lifter

And is now being sold by Burpees and other places if you check out Google.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Charlie Byles ML

I have a few thousand Estlers Mortgage Lifter seed and plan on growing a few hundred plants this year.

DarJones

Guy across the street from me puts out 450 Goliath plants and raises a really attractive big pink one called Bear Paw or Bear Claw.....he tailgates vegetables for a hobby.

It's Bear Claw and I grew it many years ago, my seeds directly from Fax Stinnett whose name you'll recognize when you read the link below. Fax was very active in SSE and listed many varieties and passed away quite a few years ago, I don't remember the actual date.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Bear Claw

I gre it as well several yrs ago when my garden was partly shaded......my neighbor had a peck basket full on his truck with the red ones and they were large and mostly uniform .....round if a little oblate....maybe 5 inches or more across. Reminded me a lot of my MLs and about the same size, def more than a pound each.