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Craftsman Lawn Tractor Won't Start

mwilkinson
14 years ago

My Craftsman lawn tractor model 917.272021 will not start. When I turn the key there is nothing. I replaced the battery and solenoid. I've made sure that it's in neutral and the brake/clutch is depressed. The fuse is ok. If I bypass the solenoid and place a jumper on the positive battery terminal and the starter it attempts to turn over. I suspect it may be a safety switch but I'm having trouble locating them. I know of the one under the seat but I'm having trouble locating one for the clutch or any other for that matter. Any suggestions?

Comments (65)

  • blackdog
    13 years ago

    The solenoid does not ALWAYS click strong, maybe half the time--another reason I hesitate to dive in with taking more things off. Sometimes when it does not click, I hold the key in the start position and jiggle it, move around in my seat (thinking incorrectly that the seat switch might have some effect), pump the clutch/brake pedal in case it's not connecting properly, and even push the pto lever down in case it's not engaging all the way. Who knows which of these actions it is, but doing them does seem to affect the solenoid clicking, but no one action clearly makes it click or not click. If I hadn't replaced the ignition switch, I would suspect that it's intermittently bad, cause it seems like when I jiggle the key, sometimes it causes the solenoid to click. I will say for sure that after replacing the solenoid, when it does click--it clicks stronger than the old one did. Hope there are some clues in here. Thanks again for your help. Fortunately, mowing season is over but I use the mower as a big leaf rake and to haul things during the fall.

  • mownie
    13 years ago

    OK, it does not always click STRONG, but it does click.
    Try this test and then report back with your results.
    Find the large post on the solenoid that has the battery cable (from battery positive post) connected to it.
    Using a suitable short length of automotive wire, jump from the small white wire terminal of the solenoid over to the large battery cable post on the solenoid. When I say "Jump", I mean you will just be touching the ends of the jumper wire to the other 2 points, there will not be an attachment, only touching.
    If this test still only produces a click, without spinning the engine, there may be fault in the way the solenoid is getting (or not) its ground. Does this solenoid feature 2 small wire terminals or just 1 small wire terminal?
    If there is only a single small wire terminal, the solenoid has provisions inside for self grounding through the mounting screws that attach the solenoid to the frame.
    If the solenoid has 2 small wire terminals, one of them (the one closest to the starter cable post of the solenoid) requires a "ground wire" be attached to that terminal and connected to a good ground on the frame.

  • blackdog
    13 years ago

    Mownie, I just did the jump test and it results only in strong solenoid clicking but no sound from the starter or engine. The solenoid (a new one just like the old one) has only one small terminal post. Before I installed the new solenoid I made sure to sand clean the attachment points because I knew it grounded through them. And I cleaned the terminal. The white wire from that small post goes into a bundle of wires wrapped in a black coil and I can't follow it. (By the way, this mower is on an adjacent property, hence the few days between posts) Also, in my previous post I meant to say that I had been jumping the engine from its own BATTERY, (i.e., cable from mower battery direct to starter).

  • mownie
    13 years ago

    Alright, it is beginning to look as though the cable that connects the solenoid to the starter is defective.
    Disconnect the starter cable from the solenoid, leave the cable connected to the starter.
    Next, use the technique you have been doing to connect direct from the battery, except this time......jump to the end of the starter cable you just took loose from the solenoid.
    If the starter DOES NOT operate when you make the connection, replace the starter cable.
    If the starter operates in the above test, you need to test the solenoid starter cable post for voltage when the key is turned to start. If you can't detect voltage at the solenoid post, you have bought a defective solenoid.

  • blackdog
    13 years ago

    Hi again mownie, I just did the test with the starter cable and the mower started up fine, just as when I jumped from the battery direct to starter. So starter cable is OK. But no voltage to the starter post of solenoid when I turn the key. My question is now--how do you know that it's a faulty new solenoid and not one of the two safety switches? Wouldn't a faulty safety switch also prevent current from reaching the solenoid starter post? Thank you so much for your patience and insight. I am determined to fix this myself.

  • mownie
    13 years ago

    OK, let me spell out exactly HOW the starter solenoid functions and the role it plays in cranking the engine.
    The starter solenoid is just a "switch".......nothing more.
    It is a "solenoid operated switch" that operates on command to connect the battery to the starter.
    The command to the solenoid arrives at the solenoid via the small white wire (on Craftsman).
    Turning the key switch to START position sends a command signal into the white wire circuit AT THE KEY SWITCH connector.
    The white wire circuit must pass through some safety switches on its way to the starter solenoid.
    A fault or defect in any of the safety switches or their wiring connectors can prevent the start command signal from reaching the solenoid, in which case the solenoid will not operate.

    So, back to the situation at hand.
    I seems you are giving contrary data, or you are mistakenly describing the symptoms differently than what you are observing.

    Refer to the photo below which I will use to illustrate the operation of the solenoid and a test of the solenoid. The photo IS NOT of a Craftsman, but it could be. Let's call it "typical starter solenoid" herein.

    At rest, you should read battery voltage on the large solenoid post (cable from battery +). You should not be able to read any voltage on the large solenoid post (going to starter).

    Turning the key to START should enable you to read battery voltage at the small white wire (provided all safety switches are set and operating properly) and also at the starter cable post (of course, if everything is working, the engine would be cranking at this point).

    If turning the key to START does not show a battery voltage reading on the white wire, there is a defect in the circuit between the key switch and the solenoid. The defect could be a bad or mis-adjusted safety switch, a cut or broken white wire, or a disconnected or corroded connector at a safety switch (where the wiring plugs onto the switch terminals).

    It is necessary that you be able to access the safety switches to test them. You can "simulate" the action required to operate the switch using finger tip pressure if you must remove the switch from its mounting, but you will need to know which way the switch needs to be operated in order to test whether the switch is faulty.

    To test the solenoid to determine if it is functioning, do the following test (actually a repeat of previous instructions).
    Refer to the photo. Connect a small jumper wire from the white wire terminal on the solenoid over to the large solenoid terminal labeled "From battery + post".
    If this action results in the starter operating to crank the engine..........the solenoid is operating correctly and you need now to find out why the start command signal is not getting to the small white wire terminal of the solenoid.

    I will stay tuned.

    {{gwi:339889}}

  • blackdog
    13 years ago

    OK, weekend before last I got over to where the mower is prepared to do your latest test recommendations only to find that my voltmeter battery was kaput! So in frustration I just tried once again starting the mower as usual with the key AND IT STARTED up as if nothing had ever been wrong! The last thing I had done before this happened was to jump from my mower battery to the unhooked solenoid end of the starter cable (my Oct 28th post). Can't imagine that would have fixed any loose connections. So I mowed as usual and hoped that it would start again and sure enough went back yesterday and it starts as usual.
    In your Nov 4 post, Mownie, you suggested connecting a jumper wire between the white solenoid wire and the solenoid post that goes to the battery--this is the only test, I think, that I never did. Previously, testing voltage at the solenoid white wire with key turned to Start showed zero voltage.
    As for now, I'll just hope that it keeps starting so I don't have to mess with those safety switches. Mownie, do you think from the fact that it now starts that the problem may have been some loose wire that got jiggled into fixing itself with all my fiddling with wires? At any rate, thanks so much for sticking with me on this and keep your fingers crossed.

  • mownie
    13 years ago

    ***"loose wire that got jiggled into fixing itself with all my fiddling with wires?"***
    Hah! It would not be the first time (nor will it be the last) something has inexplicably seemed to fix itself after the "wiring gets fondled". Sometimes a very basic "cussing" seems to work for some folks.

  • mesquitamachado
    10 years ago

    I'm astonished!
    This is just what is happening now with my tractor Kubota!
    Even the jumps for trying to start the engine!
    The engine of my tractor starts also very well with a "direct" jump between the own tractor battery positive post and the main key switch device (red wire terminal).
    I read the above with so much attention that I will try the possible solutions tomorrow!
    Congratulations!

  • willysmooo
    10 years ago

    I am new here, so please excuse me...I am pretty handy with cars etc, but am having the same problem with it not starting. How do you exactly put a jumper on the battery to bypass the solenoid to start it that way? Sorry if this is a dumb question

  • scottmw
    10 years ago

    I'm in the same situation. I have a 1993 lawn tractor that doesn't do anything when I turn the key. I have replaced the solenoid, the battery, and the key switch. I now can start it by jumping directly to the starter cable from the new battery.

    Please - some help!

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    Could you please create a new thread of your own to address the issue?
    Jumping in on a years old thread is not going to get you the right kind of attention that you want in finding a solution.
    Start a thread and include the Craftsman technical model number that is found in the body cavity under the seat.
    That number is most important when sleuthing electrical issues because of the various differences made over the years.

  • gadget044
    9 years ago

    I have a craftsman riding mower Model 917271061 with a kohler 15.5 hp . My problem it started burning out coils I replaced 2 last one it started right up and ran great for about 3 hours, then just like you turned the key off and would not crank or anything . I was advised to replace key switch , i did also replace solenoid ,battery , plug and new coil and still will not crank if i try to jump it off at solenoid with ground wire on or off still no fire , just cranks . what would cause this . when mower runs , it runs great not hot or anything

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    ***" I was advised to replace key switch , i did"***
    At which point in this drama did you replace the ignition switch?
    After the first coil failed? After the second coil failed?
    Has it been 3 coils failed or 2? Count the original coil as #1.
    Are you replacing with genuine Kohler parts? Or aftermarket lookalike parts?
    It is unheard of for magnetos to fail in rapid succession like this unless there is something wrong with the machine wiring that results in 12 volts being fed into the kill wire that goes to the magneto.
    I don't know how much you understand about magnetos, but some folks are under the false impression that a magneto coil needs a voltage fed to it to operate. That is false, magnetos generate their own electricity when the flywheel turns. There is no other power wire that feeds the magneto. The only wires going to/from the magneto are the kill wire and the spark plug wire.
    Applying 12 volts to a magneto will ruin the magneto. Ignition switches have been known to go flaky and send battery voltage to the magneto on the kill wire and toast the magneto.
    I would presume whoever suggested you change the ignition switch might have had that in mind.
    We hear of cases every so often where someone tries to feed 12 volts to a magneto thinking it need power to operate.
    They might as well smash the magneto with a sledgehammer.

    This post was edited by mownie on Sat, May 3, 14 at 0:59

  • gadget044
    9 years ago

    If I count the magneto that is on it now it is 3 ,when i put the second one on it cranked right up and ran for about 3 hours then as if i had turned the key switch off , just stopped in the middle of mowing . Here is what all I have done . Replace key switch , solenoid , magneto ,plug ,. there is only the ground wire on the coil and if i jump it at the solenoid it will crank but not fire , with or without the ground wire on the coil .I have traced my wiring and cant find any bad or worn spots. as of right now , with brake depressed , deck raised , in neutral turn the key and nothing , oh has a new battery also , but as i said if i jump the solenoid it cranks but does not fire.

  • gadget044
    9 years ago

    replaced key switch this time when i added 3rd coil

  • gadget044
    9 years ago

    yes ordered all parts threw sears and replaced key switch this time as i added 3rd coil and new plug

  • bill_kapaun
    9 years ago

    Does the fuel solenoid click when you turn the key switch ON/OFF/ON.......?
    Try it seated/unseated.
    If not check fuse.

    I'd suggest you start a new thread for this.
    You have a somewhat unique electrical system using 3 Operator Presence Relays. (OPR)

    I'd kind of like to get mownie involved in some possible "electrical theory" discussion on why the coils keep getting fried. (possible feedback from a bad ground connection on an OPR)

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    Bill, will do......later. Right now we are getting ready to consume a sizable volume of Chinese cuisine.
    Craftsman seems to have done themselves one up on this 3 OPR system.
    And I already see a a point of crossing with 2 wires that is not clear if it is a connection or if it is a jump over. But I believe it is meant to be a jump over. Yellow and Red wires near diode and alternator. Drawn as a simple cross, but since the Yellow is an unrectified phase coming off the alternator, and the Red is a rectified output coming off the diode, I'm calling that one "no connection point".

  • bill_kapaun
    9 years ago

    Mownie-
    what I'm getting at is-
    A possible intermittent ground connection on pin 30 of OPR 1.
    Giving the same effect as a PTO clutch "arcing out" PTO switch contacts when the "snubber" diode is missing.
    Maybe the coil is get a "shot" of ACV from the relay windings.
    It's kind of "off the wall", but so is the OP's problem.

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    Bill, I'm with you on that. Even before I read your last post I had screen shot the schematic and colored up some circuits for a more vivid view.
    My take on the problem (possible scenario) is that there might be an intermittent grounding problem in the ground path from terminal 30 of OPR #1. If so, during the times that the intended ground path for terminal 30 is open, the current passing through the relay operating coil from terminal 85 to terminal 86 would no longer be able to reach ground as the OEM meant for it to.
    But because terminals 86 & 30 are tied together by a common wire, the current flowing through the relay operating coil would be diverted through the load contacts of the relay and travel through terminal 87A which is continuous to the magneto kill wire circuit. It would also be presumed that no other part of the kill wire circuit would be continuous to ground at the time, so any voltage that is introduced into the kill circuit through OPR #1 would go straight to the magneto unabated.
    Whether the damage being done is caused by a voltage spike of AC from the relay chattering open and closed......or whether it is due to the DC flowing through the operating coil desperately seeking an alternate ground could be a matter for another debate. The way I see this is that either case might lead to a back rush of some kind of voltage getting to the magneto unit. And these modern magnetos do have some rudimentary electronics to replace the old school contact points that used to time the moment of spark.
    This is most likely a case of the magneto getting its brains blown out instead of outright burning up.
    In the image I have a red arrow pointing to a hypothetical intermittent open.
    Bill, does this concur with what you are thinking?

    I suppose that if I were working on this puzzle, I would locate OPR #1 and run a new ground circuit parallel to the OEM circuit (outside of the harness though) to test the theory.
    About the only other thing one could do would be to physically check each and every ground wire terminal and screw on the entire chassis to see if a bad connection or crimp could be identified and fixed.

    This post was edited by mownie on Sat, May 3, 14 at 21:53

  • Rick_IL
    9 years ago

    I have the exact same scenario happening on a B/S 42A777-1270-01 engine. I've fried 2 magnetrons for no apparent reason. The only thing I could think of is a bad wire somewhere in the harness that is giving the magnetron a shot of 12 volts on the kill wire. I was making a turn on a slight incline when It died this time.

    (I have another post with my particular situation but it was interesting that the discussion here sounds near identical.)

  • bill_kapaun
    9 years ago

    Mownie-
    You see what I'm thinking, BUT- you have the wrong OPR.

    OPR #1, which has pin 87A connected to the kill wire.

    The M terminal isn't grounded in the ON position, so there's nothing else between 87A & the kill wire.

    Else, we're on the same page.

    Rick_IL
    Without knowing what tractor or schematic you have, it's unlikely your problem is what mownie & I are discussing.
    This is a rather uncommon schematic on a CRAFTSMAN tractor with 3 OPR's. Most don't have ANY and some have 1 or 2.
    You might post your tractor brand & model in YOUR thread to get the most accurate help.
    IF you have a link to the schematic, that would be extremely helpful.

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    Nah, I have the right relay, I just left all the black wires in their natural state. I even stated in the post that OPR #1 was the focal point of the problem.
    One thing else that could be done to offer a degree of protection from this type of back feed being carried to the magneto kill circuit would be to separate terminals 86 & 30 from sharing a single ground path from the relay socket.
    If OPR #1 terminal 86 had its own, isolated ground wire leading away to wherever the OEM chose to ground it, the current flowing through the operating coil of the relay would be unable to divert through terminal 30 and out through terminal 87A and find its way into the magneto via the kill wire circuit if the wire from terminal 30 ever developed an open circuit condition. Terminals 86 and 30 should have had separate ground wires instead of sharing a single wire to ground.

  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    Mownie, did you get all that from your fortune cookie? All I get is darn losing lotto numbers....

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    My fortune cookie said I would have very good luck before my next birthday.
    My wife's cookie said she would soon would achieve financial success.
    Well, it's been nice talking with you guys all these years, but I guess the wife and I will not be able to fraternize with all you po' folks any more. :^)

  • gadget044
    9 years ago

    I have went threw all the wires looking for bad spot or crimp , can't find nothing , about ready to set fire to it lol can you answer this why will it not start if i jump it at solenoid with ground wire off the coil , it will crank when i do that but not fire , why is that ?

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    With the kill wire removed from the magneto, there is no reason for the magneto not to make a spark.......except for a defective coil, or if the cranking speed is just too slow for the mag to function properly.
    You keep mentioning that you are jumping the solenoid to crank the engine. Are you now also having a problem that the engine will not crank when the key is turned to start?
    Hint: Cranking just means the starter is spinning the engine, cranking is not a descriptive term indicating anything about whether there is a spark or whether the engine starts and runs. Cranking only means the engine is being spun by the starter.
    So, are you now also having a cranking problem when the key is turned to start position?

  • bill_kapaun
    9 years ago

    From one of my yesterday posts-

    "Does the fuel solenoid click when you turn the key switch ON/OFF/ON.......?
    Try it seated/unseated.
    If not check fuse."

  • gadget044
    9 years ago

    Okay , if i turn the key does nothing at all . If i jump it at the solenoid it spins the motor fast but still no spark , when i say jump it i mean it just cranks but does not fire up .

  • bill_kapaun
    9 years ago

    Maybe you should READ the post just above your last response!

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    Do you have any lights on the dash? Do those lights come on when the key is turned to the run position?
    If there are supposed to be lights on the dash when the key is turned on, but no lights are burning now........the main fuse could be blown, and that would prevent the starter solenoid from working and also would keep the fuel solenoid from working, and the fuel solenoid must work for the engine to run.
    And, the seat switch and the brake/clutch switch both affect the fuel solenoid power (plus some other stuff).
    Check the main fuse and then we will try to go from there.

  • RUtgers1970
    9 years ago

    Can someone tell me where the fuse is physically located on my Lawn Tractor model 917.272420?
    Thanks in advance

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    The physical location (according to the owner's manual for your model) is behind the dash panel.
    Tilt the hood and look around behind the gas tank.
    The fuse holder is simply free hanging, 1 fuse plug that has 2 wires on it. It is not mounted to the tractor.

  • rsampson
    9 years ago

    I also have a mower that won't start (Model 91725671 "0>). It cranks over fine but no spark. I have jumped out seat switch and this also has made no difference. If I depress the brake fully it cranks if I do not it will not crank over. This tells me the brake interlock switch is working. Also have replaced the coil thinking it had failed considering the tractor has some years on it. What the heck am I missing?

    Regards, Ron

  • rcbe
    9 years ago

    ron-
    remove air cleaner. have assistant attempt to start engine normally (in seat, 1/2 throttle, PTO off, cl/br pedal fully depressed). Spray several shots of carb cleaner directly down carb throat ( NO ether starting fluid !!).
    If engine pops or tries to start, you have a fuel delivery problem of some type. If not, there is an ignition or mechanical problem.
    Run above test and post back with results so we can go from there.

  • bill_kapaun
    9 years ago

    Is 91725671 the correct number, or did you drop a digit?

  • rsampson
    9 years ago

    That was the first line of defense was strip down the carb clean it thoroughly and put fresh gas in the tank. The starter turns over the motor at a high rate of speed and when doing so you can pull the choke on and see and smell the gas getting into the motor, so there is no gas delivery issue here.
    I have taken out a plug (left it attached to the spark plug wire) and turned over the motor holding the NEW spark plug to the block and there was NO blue spark and the plug was gapped correctly. So there is no spark happening to ignite the gas in the cylinder. What am I missing?
    Yes Bill that is the number that is on the spec plate under the seat Model #-917-256-71, if Sears has changed it since the mower was manufactured I am not aware of it as I have ordered multiple parts with that number.

    Regards, Ron

  • bill_kapaun
    9 years ago

    I show 917.256710 > 917.256712

    Does this have a Kohler 18 HP Magnum engine?
    IF so, I'd venture to guess the seat switch is bad, misadjusted or disconnected.

    HOW did you "jump out" the seat switch? IF it's closed, you'll get no spark.

  • rsampson
    9 years ago

    Hi Bill,
    Well the number under the seat was the 917.25671 so I have no idea what Sears has done with their model numbers but I have bought many replacement items under this model number.
    I guess I should have said that I pulled the connector off the switch and it made no difference and I checked the adjustment and switch operation with a multimeter and it seemed to work well.

    Regards, Ron

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    Seat switch connector has a built in "shorting bar" which will close the kill circuit when the connector is unplugged from the switch. Unplugging the connector from the switch gives the same results as if the seat is not occupied.
    Seat switch is just one switch in the safety interlock circuitry that can cause the engine to have no spark. The brake pedal interlock switch is actually 2 switches in one assembly.
    One of the brake switches is dedicated to starter inhibition, and the other switch is to kill spark and stop the engine.
    The PTO switch also has a circuit dedicated to the kill wire.
    You can disconnect the kill wire from the magneto to see if that restores spark. If doing that restores spark, something is grounding the kill wire somewhere. Could be a chafed wire.

  • Peter Gautreau
    8 years ago

    I know this is very well after the fact, but I had a similar situation and I hope this helps future readers. I experienced the very same issues spoken about in this thread and tested the same way. I finally found out that the brake pedal wasn't engaging the brake switch. Somehow the switch had become worn and the brake was slipping past the plunger on the switch. A simple adjustment of the switch and voila, starts and runs like a dream.

  • brandon_greer12
    8 years ago

    Hello I am new to this but I am having the same problem with my craftsman not starting and only clicking. I have read over what mownie(7) has been helping with and have tried all the jumping process and it comes down to when I jump from the white wire to the post on the solenoid and only clicks but checked for volts on both sides and they are getting 12.3-12.4 and starter will turn if you jump from the battery to the starter! Any help I can get I will take

  • brandon_greer12
    8 years ago

    Any help mownie (7)

  • tomplum
    8 years ago

    So if your solenoid has a good ground on the black wire side (actually try test grounding it) and you have 12VDC when you activate the key- the likely hood is that the solenoid is bad from what else you say.

  • brandon_greer12
    8 years ago

    Well I have checked the ground and have changed the solenoid and still just clicks!! Bout to drive me insane lol

  • johnsculfor
    8 years ago

    I have a craftsman lt120 ride on and it will not crank over. I get battery voltage to the battery side on the solenoid but nothing going to starter wire I have feed to the white wire when the key is in starter position.it has a black wire going to the other terminal 2 black to 1 terminal. when I try and start the solenoid makes a bit of noise and with a meter connected to the battery the voltage goes down to 0 just like a short circuit can anybody help please

  • rexlex
    8 years ago

    1) remove batt, take to qualified shop for LOAD test. 2) with good batt and still prob, jump across two large posts at start solenoid to see if starter will energize. If it does (and you already say you have good 12v coming from ign sw), replace solenoid, making SURE new OEM solenoid is properly grounded.

  • nickygizzie
    8 years ago

    I have a 2004 26 hp garden tractor gt5000 I am having a problem starting it, it will try and turnover very slowley for a few seconds and will not start I changed my battery, solenoid, and tryed to jump it with my truck its still doing the same thing.I need to get it going before the next storm...Any information would be great THANKS

  • rexlex
    8 years ago

    1. make sure their is no parasitic load on engine, such as deck blades, etc. 2. remove spark plugs - engine should spin over fast/easy with starter. If not, have battery LOAD tested at shop while you clean to bright metal all cable connection points between battery and starter, including chassis ground points using sandpaper.

    3. re-install plugs, try starting again. if still slow to turn over and engine is Briggs, contact mfgr for valve adjustment procedure.