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Theobroma cacao from seed

Posted by LucaB Italy zone 8 (My Page) on
Sun, Oct 23, 05 at 18:22

Hello! I've just planted some seeds of theobroma cacao and I've got a question about watering... Searching in the forum I've read that they need a lot of water... but in the instructions I got with them they say to let the earth dry out before watering again... so what's the right thing to do?

Thank you!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

I believe those instructions you got are for the seeds germination process, not for the actual grown up trees. Donīt flood the seeds or they will rot. When they became a tree and in hot weather you can add lots of water.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

I've grown cacao theobroma for several years - one thing sticks out - they are 100% intolerant of drought! Even the seeds. Keep them moist at ALL times! You may have gotten generalized tropical houseplant instructions - but cacao is most certainly not a general tropical houseplant in the least.

Keep them in very organically rich well draining media and keep it perpetually moist. Let the water drain out - don't let it sit in water. But, every couple of months or so during the growing season it is good to soak the pot for half an hour or so to eliminate any dry hydrophobic spots that can develop in the media.

They like bright light - but loath full-on day-long sunlight - an east facing exposure is ideal. They like warmth and humidity in abundance. If it's a bit warm for you and drippy humid for you, they're happy as pie.

Cacao also benefit and may actually need mycorrhizal fungus - purchase and apply mycorrhizal inoculant when you pot up the seedling. They don't like their roots messed with much tho - when potting up don't do much with the roots.

These guys are heavy feeders. I rotate feedings - sometimes I use fish emulsion, other times diluted molasses, and still other times liquid seaweed. On the borderline of almost but not-quite organic is Hasta-Gro, which works well too. But I would *NEVER* use Miracle-Gro! I lost nearly 20 cacao seedlings thanks to that stuff and only when I went organic and applied mycorrhizal inocula did the remaining nearly defoliated cacao recover and explode with vigor.

I've germinated a lot of cacao seeds - usually I'll pregerminate in moist peat under 16-hour flourescent plant-lights and when I see rootlets I'll remove them from the ziplock and sow them with mycorrhizal inocula into their initial pot. A deeper pot is best, if you can. Their taproot can form a J-curve in shallow pots that will stunt their growth.

I had one flowering at 3 years - but a hard winter in the greenhouse and a summer of extraordinary heat and drought did that poor plant in. I have another that's 4 years old that's about ready to put out flowers. And several yearlings and some new'ish seedlings. They sure are neat to grow. You'll be amazed at how big their leaves get when the vigor kicks in - over 11" not counting the petiol!

Have fun,
Mike


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

Mike... why do you think that miracle gro damaged the cacao? Build up of salts? I used it twice this summer with no damage, but only twice.
To answer the original question, a few years ago, someone came on this forum and told me that they see cacao, in the wild, in sitting water in ditches... so, as long as it is warm, it likes WATER. :o)


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

I haven't the foggiest. Whatever it was, MG turned out to be extremely inappropriate for the cacao. It wasn't likely a buildup - unless cacao is extremely sensitive, because they reacted poorly after only a few dilute applications. Ceasing and using mycorrhizal fungus and organic fertilizers brought about an almost overnight reaction on the last two survivors that were barely sticks - a virtual explosion of vigor occured within a couple of weeks.

Cacao also have very insignificant root systems. That's why workers don't climb the trees when harvesting (aside from damaging flowering pads) - they use long poles with knives attached, lest they knock the tree over with their weight. Thusly, cacao has a high dependance on mycorrhizal fungus - a symbiotic root fungus that extends the root system's capabilities in a big way. This fungus, tho, would be damaged or killed by fertilizers like MG.

Mycorrhizal fungus is what basically opened me up to the soil foodweb and organic methods and it's been a dream since then... Definitely do some research on that - several places sell inocula and I've had extraordinarily good performance using the fungus...

Be well,
Mike


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

root fungus stuff here:

http://www.horticulturalalliance.com/DIEHARD_Mycorrhizal_Inoculants_and_Microflora_Stimulants.asp


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

  • Posted by Eggo z10soCal LBC (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 19, 05 at 15:39

I only use chemical fertizler now on plants that are in the ground. I've had the same experience with MG and other chemical fertilizers on potted plants. I'm not blaming the fertilizer but for me its a bit harder to determine the right amount of solution expecially for tropical seedlings especially ones that aren't the heaviest feeder. You rarely would overfertilzer potted plants with organic fertilizer I think.

I've been using mycorrhizal fungus for about three years now. I like seeing all those mushrooms grow out of the pots, yard, and all.

Heathen, you are so correct about water and warmth. I seen mangos growing right next to rice fields which I thought was quite amazing. I didn't know they could tolerate so much water. Put something like that in our cool winters and the roots will rot in no time.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

The best mycorrhizal fungi inoculants are from Plant Health Care, Inc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Plant Health Care, Inc.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

I believe mycorrhizas wonīt thrive if you use chemical fertilizers in your soil, you must make your choice.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

  • Posted by Eggo z10soCal LBC (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 29, 05 at 22:12

I can't decide!!! =)
I believe you are right. I try to limit the chemical fertilizers to my guavas and bananas because they're such heavy feeders. Other plants I tend to use mostly mulch, some fish emulsion, and experimenting with just burrying fishes right next the root zone, hehe.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

LOL >=O
I wonder if just taking some dirt from the base of a fruit tree and inoculating our potted or planted with that would make the trick, instead of buying those fancy NATURAL products!!!!!!!


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RE: Theobroma cacao plant care

Hi, am I glad to find you! I finally got two plants I had been dying for: a theobroma cacao and a camellia sinensis. I got them as sweet little plants from a supplier in Hawaii, but they are not happy on my windowsill. Our house isn't terribly warm, nor moist, but I have put baggies over them. Still they are droopy and discolored. What should I do? It was so hard to get these plants, I hate to see them die. I have a coffee tree that is maybe 16 years old and it had a difficult season here and there but it is maybe 6' tall now and quite healthy. It's flowered now and then and grown a few beans; in fact I have one wee seedling from it. thanks for any advice.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

How big is the cacao? Mine does okay indoors without a baggie....you might actually be overwatering it. It's "dry" season would be the winter. Camellia sinensis is NOT a tropical... or I should say at least it isn't a warm tropical. They can take down to 20š. I wouldn't treat it like a theobroma at all. But I would also assume too much water. Being droopy usually in my mind means too much water or not enough sun.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

how long does it take to sprout cacao?
are there any good sites out there with info on such things?


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

Here in Puna the seeds sprout as the pod spoils. Any pod with black soft spots almost invariably has sprouting seed with roots. Also, if you get a tree to flowering stage, the flowers will attract fruitflies. Don't spray, these are it's main pollinators. Try www.hawaiicacao.com -the website for cacao farmers.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

Hello Mike. Just found this here so you are getting me from all sides! Nonetheless, do you need to use the mycorrhizal when sowing? Or just when transplanting up the seedlings? Thanks, B


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Theobroma seed germination

By the way of the three fruits I received today from Brazil, one "pod" was blackened and upon opening it was found to be rotten. Two-thirds of the seeds were spoiled and none were seen germinating. The one-third good seeds are now sitting between moistened layers of cotton cloth awaiting info on how to germinate them. Hope I get that info soon!


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

Hello, I live in California this is my first time growing Theobroma Cacao seeds I have purchased some Cacao seeds from a online store and the seeds were already sprouting very little their just barley coming out of the shell leafless when I recieved them I planted them point upwards where I can see a tiny curved leafless stem I was wondering did I plant the seeds right? Thank you for your time.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

the seeds sprout with their roots first. Never plant with the growth facing upwards! Just remember when you get Cacao seeds, they always sprout roots first, not a stalk. Hope this helps. though they are different than most seeds


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

Can anyone tell me where to purchase viable seeds from or even plants? Thank you.


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

Try Montoso Nursery in PR.

Here is a link that might be useful: Montoso


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RE: Theobroma cacao from seed

Your best bet is to order a fresh Pod. The last one I got came from South America a few years back. Dont recall the website sorry. The Theobroma cacao pods can also be found on ebay. Getting a cacao pod is very interesting, if you never seen or had one. The seeds are very easy to clean, using dry potting soil, and your fingers to remove the membrane.
I used a seed starter mix, having a 99% germination, within a week or two.
Theobroma cacao is not hard to grow. No harder than citrus, coffee or palms in containers.


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