I'll jump on the SoCal-is-more-desireable bandwagon! The lack of humidity is a HUGE difference maker with regard to comfort for many people - not just me. But I do also really love the true tropical feel of south florida - just not when the temperature starts rising.....

anyway - JF - 2pm on thursday at your place sounds good - email me directions or at least your address on my gmail account, ok?

mangoSpike

JFernandez

You are correct. More like 500-600 miles latitude difference between LaHabra and Miami. I liked that photo you posted of the large Manilita tree. Coastal California where you are is very moderate while Miami is boiling in the summer. But inland California is also blazing hot in the summer.

I'd be curious to know just how much more sunlight hours Miami gets than Palm Springs - we allegedly get 350 days of sunlight per year (certainly not all-day sun), but fewer hours of daylight to collect our total from. Isn't that true? I should google this......

Anyway, Zands, my Manila and Rosigold both bloomed in March last year and didn't reach fruit maturity till Aug. Now I'll be curious to see how my other varieties unfold their routines during the course of the next year or two....I just have this fear that the intense dry heat alternating with a moderately cool winter that we have out here in the desert will cause every mango variety to produce fruit more or less at the same time.....

And since there is no one who has come on this forum with my kind of climate, it looks like I will just have to wait these answers out......

mangoscratch

mangodog
Miami Florida will get more sunlight but as JFernanzez says you have much fewer cloudy days in your near desert conditions. So that helps you. You are ~90 miles inland. Your cold desert nights will retard mango growth

You say all your mangoes seem to bloom and yield ripe fruit at the same time. You can take notes and become the mango authority for inland SoCal. Why not get a blog at Wordpress? You can keep it private if you want. Your mango adventures

Zands wrote:
Your cold desert nights will retard mango growth.

you are absolutely right but only when we grow Florida's mangos grafted on Turpentine rootstock. Mangos grow just as vigorously as yours in our area if it is on Manila rootstock. BTW, La Habra is 20 miles inland 25 minutes from Newport Beach one of the very few USDA 11A zone.

Gary -

I will email you today with instructions for Thrusday but let me know if you want to go to Roger Meyer's nursery/garden after early dinner.

JF - sure - let's go see Roger - what time is the meeting - 7pm? And how long does it go for? Don't forget I got a long schleppy drive back to PS....

Zands - one correction - you can't say "Your cold desert nights will retard mango growth" as a blanket truth. The cold nights are only in december, january and february (with warmer ones mixed in of course when we get domes of high pressure). Around those months it's at 50 degrees or higher and the growth is phenomenal on the plants up till mid summer. Then it becomes consistently above 100 during the day, and around 75 at night for 3 months or so. At that point growth slows a bit as far as I can tell, though that is when the fruits are developing, so not much growth would probably be anticipated anyway - at least so far with the 2 mangos i've had for the last few years.

And then there's the lack of humidity, another factor we haven't considered in this whole mix - not only vastly different from your Florida, but very different from coastal California - even where JF lives - that could very well influence florescence and fruit production, growth, etc.

I dont' know about the rootstock story yet, as I have many grafted plants from Florida just planted this last fall, so I'll have to see if there is a difference in growth patterns. I do know my manila grows like a weed out here.

But like you say, I can keep a log of how it all develops and then I'll have my results, but possibly never all the reasons why they behave they way they do out here. I'm looking forward to it, though I'm not sure I'm ready to be a blogger just yet. And besides I like it here with you guys a lot!!!!!!!!!!!

We're like 5 days in to a warm spell now and my new Edward (from Mimosa) is pushing new growth, but not blooms, I think (hint hint, jf - lol!!!)

MangoFox

One other thing to throw in the mix, when mangoes are purchased from outside the growing area, it takes a season or longer for the bloom times to acclimate to the new spot. I have a grafted mango I brought back from Puerto Rico this past year, last I checked it had nubs forming, too early to tell if they are going to be blooms yet. My mangoes that I've had for a few years are patiently waiting for Feb/Mar to do their thing. Plus rootstocks, varieties, age, climate, past season, fertilization, water, dry period, humidity, location, sun intensity, soil temps, so many variables to deal with.

good luck with the blooms,
-Ethan

Gary,

This is the same time my Mallika and Edwards bloomed last year. My trees are flushing with the same intensity as last year at this time. This is the fourth day in the mid 80's and the forecast calls for more of same until the end of the month by then we'll be home free until late Nov. an early Dec. of this year. Sure, I'll get a hold of Roger and make an appointment after 3:30 Thursday. The meeting is not until 7:30 pm.
lancetilla

edwards

carrie

jfernandez
You speak about Manila and Manilita mangoes. I have one bought here in FL called a Philippine mango. Do you know if it is probably a Manila mango?
Here is Pine Island's description of the Philippine mango

And what is the difference between Manila and Manilita? Thanks much!

Oh.....yeah....i can see little buds in your latest fuzzy pictures, JF (lol)....I think you just might be right! Good for you

And Red Sea - I think that's true about where you buy them and where they are planted......where are you located - a floridian i'm guessing.....

JF - I'm a JealousMangoFellow

Zands -

I never heard of Manilita until I took a walk around the Hispanic neighborhood here in La Habra and saw a large tree blooming in Jan' which I though it was unusual for a Manila seedling.I knocked on the door and the tree owner told me he had brought back the Manilita seed from Yucatan Mexico and planted it around 6 years ago. I have tasted the three most popular backyard Mangos in Socal (Manila, Ataulfo and Petacon, Tommy Atkins seedling I believe) and I like the Manila mango the best (even better than Manilita). The owner of Mimosa's Nursery told me that the Philippine mangos he sells from PIN are the same as our Manila.

Thanks Dr. J
That information is very helpful to me. It gives me a much better idea what to expect fromm my Philippene mango tree. Great story about that large seed grown Manilita tree. Is he getting fruits? He must be.

Manilita would mean little Manila. Are the fruits smaller? Why the Manilita name? Is maybe just an endearing expression in Spanish?

Zands -
I went back to his house late August(another great feature of this manilita for Socal, early mangos)with a bag and no one was home so I helped myself to a half a dozen that fell off the tree. They were very small fruits (lees than half a pound) fiberless and sweet with a stronger taste than manila. Someone in this forum ask me if the tree was small and I posted a pic it's pushing 20' but as I said it's a seedling.

Thanks J
So a manilita seed all the way from Yucatan grows a large and fruiting tree in Los Angeles

I have a seedling mango tree I must plant. The tree it came from has 18" diameter trunk and has another huge one next to it. I will go see him during this years mango season and post photos of it

Manilita is from the Pacific Coast of Mexico. The fruit are small and elongated, weighing 250 g (9 oz). The color is an eye-catching pastel red, which covers all but the nose of the fruit. The flesh is light yellow and silky-smooth, with a pleasing sweet and uncomplicated flavor. It is perfect for eating out-of-hand, for slicing and dehydrating. The fruit ripen early in the mango season; it is among the earliest red mango to ripen in Florida. The tree is dwarf and disease resistant and is perfectly suited for container or patio production. Tree size can be maintained at 2 m or less in height and 1.5 m in spread. Production is consistent, but modest.
http://www.virtualherbarium.org/tropicalfruit/mangotrees.html

{{gwi:1306466}}
The Ataulfo, also called Champagne, young, baby, yellow, honey, manilla, Adaulfo, or Adolfo is a mango cultivar from Mexico

Ataulfo mangos are golden yellow and generally weigh between 6 and 10 ounces, with a somewhat sigmoid (oblong) shape and a gold-blushed yellow skin. Their buttery flesh is not fibrous, and they have a thin pit. Their flesh is a deep yellow and high in sugar (15 grams per 100-gram serving), with a rich, spicy flavor. They are rich in vitamin C and dietary fibre.

Ataulfo mangos have only recently gained popularity in the United States, though they have been a major crop in Mexico for decades. They come from the Mexican states of Michoacan, Sinaloa, Nayarit, Jalisco, Veracruz and Chiapas, and are sold between March and September.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataulfo_%28mango%29

Zands -

I'm not the expert growing Manila, I just started this hobby two years. I'm good in research, knocking on doors, taking pictures and asking questions. I'm going to defer all your Manila questions to Gary (MangoDog) who has been growing them for 8 years,,,,,I'm sure there are other Californians like Jacob and Ethan who could answer your questions about Manila mangos better. Anyhow, here is my Manila.

MANILA MANGO

well.....my home depot "manila" does not look like the fruit MK pictured above - it doesn't have that curvy point thing at one end, being more traditionally roundish with certainly a fatter end and a smaller end....I think i only have a pic of them in a bowl....let me see what else I can find....

SoMangoReadyPooch

{{gwi:1306468}}

MangoPro -

Nice shape Manilas! your tree and your mangos look very well taken care of....did you polish those bad boys before putting them in a bowl? Your leaves look kind of small for a Manila - compare them to mine. Check out what TT says about the Philippine Mango.

3124 Mangifera indica - Philippine Mango
This variety originated from Philippines and is also popular in Mexico and Cuba. This small fiberless fruit was introduced to Florida from Cuba. In Mexico, it is known as Manila, in Philippines - as Carabo. The flesh is soft, melting, and has a sweet rich flavor, with an aroma typical of the Indo-Chinese types, it is very different from the Indian types. The fruit hang in clusters on the stem. The tree is well adapted to South Florida.
Relatively cold hardy variety.

Gary:

I have a question about the picture you posted. Below the bowl of mangoes is a picture of what I believe are two different trees.....at least that is my conclusion looking at the different coloration of the leaves. It looks form the picture that the leaves on the branch to the far right have a pink mid-rib, while the others have the more common yellow mid-rib. Is this juat a camera or lighting issue? Or, are there two different trees, or does your one tree have both on it?? Most mangoes have leaves with a yellow mid-rib. One of the few that has a pink mid-rib is Maha Chanook. Please solve the mystery. Thanks.

Harry

mangodog your "manila" seedling does not look like the typical manila, it looks more like a Saigon type

Couldn't find info for La Habra, but did look at Fullerton, CA which looks close.

Fullerton is about 33.9N
Miami is 25.8N

That is about 560 miles...give or take that Fullerton sits north of Miami.

By March 20th both Miami and Fullerton have roughly the same length of day, so sunlight shouldn't be much a factor, although by then temp is over 10F warmer in Miami at that time (both highs and lows). Miami wins the award for overnight minimum temps throughout the year and max temps...by summer Fullerton has MORE light (over 30 minutes for most of the summer).

On June 20th, Miami is 90F/76F average, while Fullerton is 80F/60F... On Aug 20th, Miami is still 90F/76F, while Fullerton is up to 86F/64F...

Looks like Fullerton is a little too close to the Pacific to get real Palm Springs type wx (100F+ every day in the summer), but the records show that the heat does show up from time to time. My guess is that the Pacific helps out in winter when its influence probably keeps those night lows from falling too much, not to mention that whole area must be one big heat island.

Take a look at mangoes growing in Israel. I see they grow several 1000 acres in that country, with one area of Ramot (about 32.5N) growing a variety of subtropicals/tropicals.

FrankTank

Thanks for checking out those mango latitude numbers. The fellow who posts here from Bermuda mentioned a Canary Island Nursery that ships mango saplings into EU nations. This nursery claims some of its mangoes grow in Southern France on the Mediterranean
http://www.canarius.com/blog/mango-varieties-sold-by-canarius-for-mediterranean-and-subtropical-climates/260

Thanks to mangodog and JFernandez for replies on what I brought up.

FrankTank -

Very good interpretation of the data - pretty close to what the meteorologist tell us that we sit in an urban heat island and if you look at the record highs for La Habra we've reached 100 + for every month except Dec. Jan. and Feb. I don't remember Miami ever reaching 100F during the time I lived there in 60's and 70's. We don't have the mango culture like Florida but some parts of Socal are ideal for growing mangos.

Zands -

no problem, I sure like ManDog's Manila, huh?

....no harry...its the same tree, but I do see the pinkish veins you are talking about> I'll look at it again in plain daylight - but that WOULD be cool if they were Maha Chinooks! and no JF no polish on those puppies in the bowl!

This tree i bought is one of hundreds and hundreds that LaVerne Nursery sends out to Home Depot and Lowes every year now in So Cal, so whatever it is, Manila or no, it is mass produced from what I can see - for every time i go in to those home centers, there they are and all of them look exactly the same to me.

I just wish someone at LaVerne could confirm what else this mango might be called except "Manila"

HEY - I just took a pic of the plant tag - take a look - Mango Kush...Zands....I think you guys are now right - they are kind of pointy....but then...where does that leave me and MY MANGO TREE what the hell is it! perhaps a new variety - I"ll be famous!!!!!!

MangoGrrrrrrrrrrrrowl

First the plant tag, then my mangos.....

Dr J
Yes mangoDog has a great yield in delicious Manila mangoes grown in California desert conditions. But then my philosophy is any ripe backyard mango tastes great

Your Manila tree looks great too. I'll post some tree photos once I get some fruit on them later this year. I have Carrie, Fairchild, Kent, Hayden, Gold Nugget, Glenn. Last year was a washout. I'm planting some more trees in a few weeks. Pickering, Nam Doc Mai #4, and a large mango sapling grown from seed that came from a massive backyard mango tree

mangoDog

I still think you still have a Philippine or Philippine/Mexican varietyÃÂ

According to the Gueness Book of World Records, the Philippine Super mango
(var. �Carabao�) is considered the best mango in the world. The
National Seed Industry Council of the Philippines has approved strains of
�Carabao� mango variety such as Guimaras Experiment Station (GES # 74, 77,
84 and 85), Talaban, Fresco, Golden and Sweet Elena.ÃÂ ÃÂ http://mangophilippines.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/philippine-super-mango-var-carabao-one-of-the-best-variety/

ÃÂ

Congratulation Zands!

Your are a big time mango connoisseur! you have some of the varieties I have and I would love to have. What do you mean a washout? What is Nam Doc Mai #4? I have a small Mai (three feet) that I planted in the summer, it has not grown an inch but it took the cold like a champ. Mickey of PlamOgram, where I purchase the tree, told me he had to cut it back last spring because it lost about three feet from the freeze in Orlando last year. It did bloom in sept. but
I plucked the little mangos off to stimulate new growth.

MangoDog -

HD Manilas are like a box of chocolates....there is a degree of luck in growing mangos in Socal but your mangos don't look like an accident to me!

Dr J
By washout I mean that many mango trees had poor yields due to a wet spring in South Florida. Wet spring promoting fungal problems like anthracnose. That is not a problem in dry SoCal. Quite a few trees within a few miles of me that produced great in 2009 were a bust in 2010

Nam Doc Mai #4 is an improved, better yield, variety...so the story goes. Jeff Hagen knows more. But Zills (in Florida) and Pine Island have switched to Nam Doc Mai #4

Here is a link that might be useful: Nam Doc Mai #4

mangodog, an interesting thought about your Manila mangoes - there have been several previous discussions on this forum that the LaVerne manilas are seedlings and several have pointed out before that they are not guaranteed to be true to type. So, you definitely might be growing a unique variety over there! Just like the Thomson mango of Paul Thomson fame, you might introduce the mangoDog breed of mangoes to the world :)

ashleySF

LaVerne sells seedling mangoes? Everyone says seedling mangoes take 6-10 years to fruit. This is why grafted is better. Must not be so in this case.

zands, the LaVerne Manilas are 2 year old seedlings. Their Glens and other mango trees are grafted mango trees. I have one of those Laverne seedling manilas myself.

A polyembryonic seed (like manila) contains two types of embryos; zygotic(sexual) and nucellar (asexual or maternal) embryos.

The zygotic sprouts are the one you want to cull while maintaining the nucellar sprout. When producing seedling trees, nurseries do not have a 100% success rate in doing this, meaning some will be different then the parent. this may be mangodogs case. You should first compare it to any other variety the nursery offers that was mislabeled, like Philippine.

sometimes somatic mutations can also occur in the nucellar sprout. I suspect this is what Nam Doc Mai #4 is, a somatic mutation of Nam Doc Mai that is more productive.

Zands -

I have a problem with anthracnose with my Alfonso because of the wet Dec. you think I should pluck off the fruits? Mango Kush give very detail answers about embryos very interesting...

Hello Jfernandez, what part of California are you located at? Are you close to San Diego? I currently have Tebow, Carrie, Glenn, Nam Doc Mai, Alphonso and a Champaign seedling.

Has your Edwards ever fruited for you? How did it taste? I considered getting an Edwards but Leo Manuel from CRFG said he didn't really care for the taste. I'm hoping I hear better opinions from other CA Edwards growers.

Simon

Hi simon_grow

I am in North Orange County in La Habra, CA home of the Hass avocado. You have a nice mango collection. My Edwards bloomed and fruited last year but I plucked the mangos off when they were about marble size. I plan to let it fruit this year. Maybe two or three mangos, Leo Manuel is a very nice gentleman. MangoDog and I plan to go down to San Diego to your local CRFG meeting when you guys have a mango graft demonstration, perhaps in May? We have a CRFG member who has a mango grove in Anaheim Hills and she grows Edwards she was not too overly impressed by it she recommended Thompson mangos a cutting from Mr Thompsons Edgehill ranch in SD . I am taking MangoDog on a tour of her Mango grove in late Feb. you are welcome to come.

JF

Hmmmmmm...."didn't care for the taste of Edward"......I would question whether what was being tasted was actually an Edward. In Florida, at least, Edward is one of the finest flavored mangoes there is. I have planted out mulitple trees of only a very few varieties. I have planted out 4 Edward trees. I wonder what soured Leo's experience.

Harry

JFernandez

You should post a photo of the little anthracnose threatened fruits so everyone here get a better fix on this, but my inclination is to leave the fruits on and see what develops

If the fruits are growing steadily they may surmount the anthracnose given that you should be sunny and dry in SoCal from here on out. You just had a very unusually wet stormy December

You could go 50/50 on your bets and leave alone the best fruits that have good sun exposure. That are not shaded. And clip off some panicles with awful fruits.

Sun and dryness are the great antifungals

Well, Harry I'll let you know this Sept. - Oct. The Mallika lived up to her hyped down here in La Habra. I have heard mix reviews in Socal about the Edwards but I will have to see for myself.

Zands -

I will post tomorrow I have to meet up with MangoDog in Fountain Valley @ 3:30, latter.
JF

Thanks for the info and invite jfernandez. Leo is a really nice guy, he gave me some of his Frankie's Red Dragonfruit and he lives only about 3 minutes away from my old house. I also plan on plucking all the mangoes off my trees if they fruit this year, I have had my trees for only several months.

Harry, Leo may not have like the Edwards because of personal preferance, he also told me he didn't care much for Carrie. Also, I wonder if the different growing and repening conditions here in SoCal may affect the flavor of mango varieties.

Someone saying they don't like Carrie is not surprising, as it has a distinctive flavor that some may not like. Edward, on the other hand, has a classical mango flavor that I have never heard anyone say anything but good things about. So, while I fully understand the issue of personal taste (having participated in and sponsored hundreds of mango tastings) I am still very surprised to hear about this and stand by my wonderment as to whether what he tasted was truly a properly ripened Edward. As far as I am concernned, I would only expect to hear such a lackluster description from a person who does not care for mango in general. I know that Leo is not such a person.

Harry

Zands - and that be would be cool if i had the Carabao, Phillipine SUPER mango, but mine look smaller don't you think? Not as elongated as in your picture...

Ashley - maybe I'll call it Wilddog - my new mango hybrid!
Anyone have contact info for the Federal Patent office ! (lol). But do let me know, with comments and pictures, how your Manila looks as it fruits - I'm super curious to see your results - maybe this summer????

Mango K - Manila is the ONLY mango Lowes/HD offers at their stores here in So Cal, so there's no chance for a mislabeling unless it happened at LaVerne's before it was shipped, cuz you can special order other varietals from them (but through Lowes), which I did (I think a Glenn and something else) but they were just crappy sticks so I got my money back.....but yeah anything's possible - I suppose I could look at the other varieties LaVerne offers (like 7-8 others) and go to the PIN viewer and see maybe if one of those mangos comes up looking close to mine.....hmmmm.....

Oh...and thanks Harry for the steady faith in the Edwards Mango, which I just spent $160 on to get a big tree and plant. As you say the consensus is it is a fabulous tasting mango......can't wait for one this year....oh, just can't wait......

MangoDogDroolingInTheDesert

Zands

here is a pic of the alfonso leaves I cut alot of them off.

Gary

before you patent it we want a sample. check out the fluorescence.

.....nice "flos", bro.....My big Zigote Mystery Mango is pushing something, might be some strange coconut-flavoured mangos this year....so stay tuned......I'm living like a weak-kneed margarita at the moment....lol.....

I'm so FLO-jealous. Why am I ALWAYS the last in the kingdom?

MangoDogPatent

JFernandez-
You got rid of the nasties. It looks OK to to me. The inflorescence I see looks OK. With your usually dry weather all should be OK

MangoDog--- Your only solution is to buy some more LaVerne mango trees until you get one with anatomically correct fruits/. How much do those trees cost in the store? Lowes and Home Depot is it?

LOL, funny zands, and I'm sure the store's "manilas" (let's all chuckle together!)cost under 30 bucks.

I actually have a second one that fruited a few last year, but they seemed smaller than my main tree and maybe even pointier (yikes!!!!!!)...but NOW, this year, i'll keep a close eye on the differences I notice.

By the way, this other manila was being choked by the tree tag string - the bark and cambium were growing over the super-choke thread - I thought that plant always looked a little thin and peaked....anyway, safely cut away now, we'll see how freedom treats her......I've been embarassed to show a picture of her - now I fell less self-conscious of my treatment of that little girl!

MangoDogsNose

fuzzy, but it's the trunk on the left with the damage

Even the buddha looks a bit sad.....the green plant tape halfway up is a Rosiegold graft which has stayed green for at least 2 months and looks like it might be swelling - how exciting...

Old Los Angeles cultivar: Villasenor fruited like crazy in 2009 but light crop in2010.

nice bushy tree - super thick trunk - - yes I know that was an older variety - yours? How's the fruit taste? Let me guess - about 8 years old.....

Nice cover, bro - can park cars under those setups,
too!

mangospeedster

My mother has lived in Eagle Rock for 15 years so it's maybe 5-10 older. This cell pic does not do it justice.... honestly Gary, this mango tree is stunting. It' about 9' x 9'. I stole a couple of fruits in 2009 and they are sweet and fiberless. LaVerne sells this cultivar to Green Thumb and Armstrong nurseries in Lake Forest and Tustin but I've had no luck yet.

When its cool and rainy..reading about who's warmer and 80f,90f and 124f is fun.
Ashley!..that's who hasn't posted in quite a while too. I wonder how the San Jose growing went? Plenty warm enough in summer.
And that last pic of Villasenor?..has the same stocky habit of my former Baileys now rootstock plant.

Alfonso Mango flowers in my backyard. I live in San Bernardino, California