I just recieved an email from PIN about some tree's and they told me they only shipped 3 gallon tree's. I was really looking forward to ordering some 7 gallon

Its possible for a small trees to fruit; often they will try to but rarely succeed in holding the fruit.

I don't recommend allowing a 3 gal tree to hold fruit in the first year though. Really zaps a lot of energy out of the tree. Better to wait and let it grow and branch out some.

I would grow from seed before ordering from TT.

Thanks! I've heard of PI but I didn't know they shipped. Thanks again for the advice!

definitely go with a 3 gallon, its such a better value. Pine Island trees are really healthy and nice, Top Topicals I have had repeated problems with along with paying a premium for hard to find specimens.

Pine over Top...any day.....but don't forget Plantogram - I've heard wonderful things about their stuff and Mickey is a super nice and helpful guy.....

...my 2 pesos....

mangocoyote

Thanks everybody! I was really hoping for a 7 gallon, but a 3 gallon would be nice, too. Would a 3 Gallon be able to set fruit the second year??? On PI it says one year to mature.

Jeff- PI has the varieties I'm looking for, but I wish they shipped 7 gallon!

Your 3 gal tree will only probably be one season behind a 7 gal and will probably handle the transplant better. For the extra cost I personally think buying larger than a 3 gal is a waste. About 90% of all of my stuff came from pine island. There trees may not always be the biggest, but you will definitely get a healthy tree. A lot of what you will buy from other places will have originated from pine island anyway. If you do order from Pine island you are better off getting two trees. It's only an extra $10 in shipping for a second tree.

Man-Go-Bananas

Check out PI shipping prices.

I have read that by the time you get one shipped you might as well ship two or
three

Mangoes used to be grown in the Rio Grand Valley but got frozen out according an
internet account

I would buy three since you are in marginal territory and need backups. If you
get more than one I would get an Indochinese mango such as Nam Doc Mai #4 and an
India mango. The mangoes of India origin (most of the varieties you are familiar
with) have more trouble producing during wet springs. When you flip though the
PI mango variety viewer -- http://www.tropicalfruitnursery.com/mango/index.shtml
-- you will see some mangoes described as more disease resistant and more
anthracnose resistant which are the same when growing mangoes in Florida. Those
are good choices

Nam Doc Mai#4 is more anthracnose resistant due to being bred in a tropical
area

Is it dry where you are? Dry late winter/spring replicates the home of the
India/Pakistani mango. Which most Florida mangoes originate from

Below is the link to Fairchild Garden's guide which tilts towards Florida
growing conditions ---- The mangoes they advocate...some of which tend to grow
smaller and slower for small backyards (called condo mangoes) Fairchild also
pushes newer anthracnose resistant varieties

But any mango can be pruned to stay smaller

Here is a link that might be useful: Fairchild Garden mango guide

PI has the healthiest trees with the healthiest rootballs. alot of my mail order trees have been tall twigs with little root structure probably from being pot bound or over fertilized.

Thanks zands! Nam doc Mai and Carrie are both varieties I was looking at. As for getting two, I might just have to! Where I live, it stays pretty dry- I live in SE Texas. I have a fairly small backyard, so I was also looking at Cogshall. Any suggestions?

"Nam doc Mai .....I have a fairly small backyard, so I was also looking at Cogshall"

Good choices in my book. You have one India (origin) mango and one Thai/Indochinese mango. Will not overwhelm your yard. Cogshall is smaller so should be easier to frost protect (pull a tarp or cover over) if you have to. You might get mango thieves unless it is fenced or hedged in. Then again maybe few people there know what a mango on a tree looks like. I think

Nam Doc Mai can be kept small. Any mango can. It's just that some like to stay small naturally

Any mango tree described as "vigorous grower" likes to be big

Thanks zands- I have a fenced in yard- so no mango thieves!!!
Thanks again for the advice!

man-go-bananas
You're welcome. Also try the search function at Garden Web. Cogshall is an easy mango to search due to an unusual name.

The best places to find info on diff mango varieties are:
-Pine Island's variety viewer
-Fairchild garden's mango recommendations
-and right here at Garden web

You say where you are is dry. MangoDog and Fernandez and others are in dry Southern California so their mango experiences should help you. They are irrigating but not year round because some mangoes (of Indian/Pakistani origin) like a dry late winter/spring. It stresses the tree into production. In Florida mangoes are rarely irrigated

The Nam Doc Mai has a wetter tropical IndoChinese heritage. One favorite on the West Coast is Manilita. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manilita_%28mango%29

Manilita (here we go again) is an IndoChinese variety that came to Mexico via the Philippines. It got some more breeding in Mexico.

It pays to email Pine Island for a current list of mangoes they can send you. They don't always have everything. They are good at e-mail communications.

Lastly --- You might be most familiar with the nice reddish looking mangoes in the supermarket. Don't fall for that "prettiness" in your own backyard. Some of the best mangoes are green and then turn an unimpressive yellow when ripe. Carrie is one of these. The Pine Island mango viewer is helpful on mango coloration

man-go-bananas ---**

If your Texas area really has a consistently dry late winter/spring then anthracnose resistance in what mango you buy is a smaller factor. Powdery mildew is the bane of mangoes in drier places. Being in Florida I don't know much about that one. Both these diseases are funguses as far as I know. There are sprays to counteract them

But don't get the wrong idea. Most (probably 90%) people never spray here. It's just that some years the yield is better. Here's another kicker. Mangoes have a biennial tendency. To bear stronger in alternate years.

man-go-bananas
Lots of people at Garden Web are liking Pickering mango these days. Nice smaller tree. Once again.... no reddish pretty fruit here. Just a good producer. If it is dry late Winter/spring there like you say there you could get by with two India origin mangoes. In wet Florida I would never do that. I would get one Thai/IndoChinese to hedge my bets. Pickering is India/Pakistani origin

Really -- Picking out a mango tree is like betting on a horse at the track. And if you buy three mango trees you are betting in three races. (you get the idea)

Thanks a million zands- I just checked out Pickering at PI and it looks like a definite contender. It is usually a somewhat wet late winter/spring, but not soaking. I will probably bet on 2 horses :) Thanks again!

What kinds of mango trees will best tolerate the climate of SE Texas? (zone 9)

Thanks~ Man-Go

the one that easiest to protect in the winter.

are you going in ground or container?

Probably container

thats what i would suggest doing. Pickering, Cogshall, Mallika, Julie, Fairchild,

mango_kush- do you think one like haden or Nam doc Mai would work?

what about graham?

Graham can get big :-). Friend has one and it's been a vigorous grower. It just means more work pruning.

Jeff

Man-Go-Bananas>>>>
Haden is out of favor these days.... Anthracnose

My Graham experience would put it amongst the second tier of slow growers. Definitley larger than Julie, Pickering and Cogshall. More in line with Nam Doc Mai. My neighbor's also have a Graham or two and the growth habit there seems to be the same as I am experiencing.

Harry

Pine Island should not consider Nam Doc Mai or Carrie "condo" trees. to me "Condo" mango should be able to be container grown. There are only a few that really fit this category, the rest are medium trees more suitable for in the ground, albeit suitable for a condo with a strip of land like many do here.

Thanks! Mallika, pickering and Cogshall are probably my best bets.

man-go-bananas

Mallika has to be ripened just right by picking off the tree 10-20 days before maturity. Some criticize it as carrot flavored. Do a search in the archives here and you will see the comments
http://search.gardenweb.com/search/nph-ind.cgi?term=mallika&x=4&y=2

ÃÂ

Thanks again zands- do you think a manila can be kept small?

I am now looking at Pickering, Mallika, Cogshall, Julie and Irwin.

Sorry for bugging you guys but do you think Florigon would work?

mango bananas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataulfo_%28mango%29
This fruit is commercially grown. Therefore the tree growth must be vigorous and
strong. No commercial grower will mess with dwarf trees. Pickering is described
as dwarf and well suited for container growing which is your plan I think. The
downside of these dwarf mango trees is they grow more slowly. The Manila/Ataulfo
fruits are small which is a plus for you. Seems good for you. You just have to
prune it. With Pickering you have bushy growth which is nice for containers.
Manila mango sure looks polyembryonic so if you got one it could be grown from
seed
I never ate a Manila/Ataulfo but people really like it and that is the commercial
version they buy in the supermarket. So in your backyard it would taste 5x
better

Thanks zands- I was really hoping for that good advice :).

http://www.thestar.com/living/article/427903
Yeah here is someone in Toronto going on about how superior the store bought
Ataulfo/Manila mango is to the nicer looking reddish ones such as Tommy Atkins.
Mangoes are very in for cooking these days in the fine restaurants in our
Northern cities. But they're pretty much fooling themselves because the best mango
is grown in your backyard or your neighbors and just eaten plain.

They are amazing! I had my first last summer. I don't see manila on PI- do you know where I can find it?

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tropicalfruits/msg0119543411000.html?24

* Posted by jfernandez 10B (lahabrafernandez@aol.com) on
Mon, Jan 17, 11 at 21:09

Zands -

I never heard of Manilita until I took a walk around the Hispanic neighborhood here in La Habra and saw a large tree blooming in Jan' which I though it was unusual for a Manila seedling.I knocked on the door and the tree owner told me he had brought back the Manilita seed from Yucatan Mexico and planted it around 6 years ago. I have tasted the three most popular backyard Mangos in Socal (Manila, Ataulfo and Petacon, Tommy Atkins seedling I believe) and I like the Manila mango the best (even better than Manilita). The owner of Mimosa's Nursery told me that the Philippine mangos he sells from PIN are the same as our Manila.

_____________
_____________

The Philippine mango at Pine Island might be very close to Ataulfo. You can email them and ask. According to JFernandez the PI Philippine is same as Manila. Is Ataulfo really identical to the Manila? I don't think so. Might be very similar.
JFernandez should know more. Maybe where to buy Ataulfo sapling. You could always plant ad Ataulfo seed and one day graft scion from it onto a mango tree. Mango trees can be grafted to have more than one mango variety on them

All of the above sure seem to have a Philippine polyembryonic heritage

manilita was on the list of Fairchilds condo trees.

Its not similar to Manilla (it reminds me more of Rosigold)

�Manilita� is from the Pacific Coast of Mexico. The fruit are small and elongated, weighing 250 g (9 oz). The color is an eye-catching pastel red, which covers all but the nose of the fruit. The flesh is light yellow and silky-smooth, with a pleasing sweet and uncomplicated flavor. It is perfect for eating out-of-hand, for slicing and dehydrating. The fruit ripen early in the mango season; it is among the earliest red mango to ripen in Florida. The tree is dwarf and disease resistant and is perfectly suited for container or patio production. Tree size can be maintained at 2 m or less in height and 1.5 m in spread. Production is consistent, but modest.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.virtualherbarium.org/tropicalfruit/mangotrees.html

man going bananas here!!!!!!!!!!

MAN this is getting head-spliting - as I said and showed with pics on the other thread (go see it - Mango's beginning to bloom in Southern California) the Ataulfo does not appear similar at all to the Manila that I purchased 7 years ago.

M-G-B: I got mine at a Home depot in So Cal. and have seen them at Lowes all the time, but this is California - u might want to call a store out there in Texas and see what they have if anything, but I kind of doubt it.

And now having just looked at the "Phillipine" variety both on the PIN and TT website, which seem to match the Ataulfo description that Zands and Mango Kush have spoken of, I can see my fruit is not at all similar to that (some have referred to the Phillipine as a Manila, also) So I'm totally confused now.....I have no idea what mine truly is....but.....i do know one thing...it tastes

PLANETARY!!!!!!!!!!!!

And PS - my "manila" grows fast....

mangoChowChow

Thanks mangodog- I hope Phillipine is the same as manila... I've gotten manila (ataulfo) at the store before, and they are AMAZING.

philipine is not identical to manila. they have a very good flavor however its a vigorous tree.

Thanks mango_kush!

MGB - Here is my experience with mail-order:

Regarding Top Trop...
They ship their plants root-balled. So they are already experiencing some transplant shock when they arrive. They do ship via USPS which meant I got my 3 gallon trees in 3 days (California).
I've purchased a total of 12 mango trees from them. Two died because I didn't know anything about growing mango (or proper tree care for that matter) at the time. The other ten, I had to baby them to get them acclimatized to their new home. I kept them in a closet with grow lights (LEDs and CFLs for 14 hours on a timer), humidifier and foliar fed them for ten days (transplant-shock meant diminished root function). I later hard pruned them (my Glenn and Valencia Pride already showing new growth - the others still waiting). I did get one (Southern Blush) that looked crappy (I complained to Mike about it) but alive and I gave it a really hard prune in the hopes of getting it to 'shape up' better.

Plantogram:
I bought 5 mangoes from them. They ship in their 3 gallon pots via FedEx which takes 5 days. Three died: One from my mistake and two from FedEx delayed delivery (where the plants were probably stored in a super dry and freezing cold facility at one of their hubs) - they arrive wilted and completely died soon afterwards (probably not a good idea to buy them during winter). I did get two Tebows from Mickey, who was kind enough to find these trees for me (when nobody else had them) and they are still currently alive.

Nipahut:
Bought three mangoes from them. One survived but two died because it was sent bare-root. The stress was too much for them. Later I heard they now send root-balled.

Pine Island:
I didn't buy any trees from them because at the time they were still recovering from the 2009 freeze and didn't have the varieties I wanted when I contacted them. But they were nice to communicate with.

Good luck.

Here is my experience with mail order -

Plantogram

Got four trees in the summer they looked root bound from the get go. Two are ok one died and my nam doc mai is fine. I got my trees via USPS they looked great when I got them but once I planted them they went into shock and wilted. I will never do any mail order from Florida or anywhere again. Mickey is a greet guy but his trees are iffy for California.

wow you guys took a hit. i ordered a bunch of rare trees from Sadhu in Puerto Rico and most of them died because they needed to be bare rooted.

all of my PI trees, mangos and others, I bare root before planting in ground and they always have healthy rootballs.

MangoK----

Why would you bare root a tree before planting? That means you wash off all the soil I suppose.

Let me guess..... This way the plant is not root bound? you undo the root tangle and spread them out perhaps?

when planting a tree I generally use one bag of manure and mix it in with the sandy soil in the hole, i usually shake the excess soil off the rootball and plant it directly into the amended soil. It is to make sure the roots arent spiraling and so the soil is uniform. then usually cover with a layer of mulch depending on the tree

MangoK
I dig a deep hole and remove coral and sand that has no humus. I get rid of these two. I dig two feet deep or more.

Fill almost full with topsoil from Home Depot
Get the hose and wet that topsoil so it will settle.
Next day I plant the mango tree

You have to hose down that Home Depot soil and let it settle. Don't plant mango the same day. Otherwise your mango will sink and settle with that new fluffy topsoil end up being planted too low, beneath the graft even.

I'm interested in buying some 3 gallon mango trees as well. Besides TT and PIN any other nursery that grow rare mango varieties? I live in SoCal and I'm looking for Okrung, Keo Sevoy, Thong Dum, and Mun Pim Sang. I found a nam dok mai at flowerdale nursery in Orange. Going to pick it up soon. I'm so excited. I was going to order from TT but not anymore after reading all your posts. You guys are so informative. I love this forum!

Nursejolly, I hope you get this before you've made a final decision. Not sure what you've heard about PIN, but I have been dealing with them for many years. First class all the way. I have several mango trees, a couple of lychee, longan and other tropical fruit trees - most all from PIN. Complete satisfaction from them is my assessment, and I'm not that easy to please!!!