This thread has been helpful. I was going to start a new one, but this seems an appropriate place to post.

I have been trying to hand pollinate as much as I can. I have about 8 females on which one half of the heart-shaped structure (ovary?) is swelling up and the other half is shrinking. Can I have a pollination celebration?

Also, I wanted to run by you guys a technique that I tried, with some apparent success since I got no (zero) pollination last year using other techniques like just a plain brush. What I have been doing this year is using a jar lid as a small container. I place 1-2 ml of water in the lid, then pick off maybe a dozen males. I sort of swish the males around in the water then using a small brush, I brush the "pollen-water" onto the females.

What do you think?

Hey Stressbaby, I'm no expert but when you see one of the ovaries swelling and the other one shrinking, I would assume that is a good sign. You really shouldn't celebrate yet untill after the first natural fruit drop which usually occurs towards the end of the flowering cycle, its more of a dropping of the ovaries that weren't really fertilized.

Your idea of using the lid and adding water and pollen sounds like a great idea. I'm not sure if it will make any difference but I would use sterile filtered water or the cleanest RO water I can get, filtered drinking water should work also. I say this because tap water, especially the water in San Diego is extremely hard and there is Chlorine other contaminants and there could be Mycoplasma, gram positive/negative bacteria and spores in the water. I used to test the city water as a microbiologist and there are certain allowable limits of contaminants and pollutants

You would not want to spread these organisms onto your open lychee flowers where the male, perhaps female flowers nectar can be a food source for these organisms to multiply. The chlorine in the city/tap water may also be detrimental to the receptive female flowers.

This method you are suggesting sounds like it would be a good method for commercial growers and perhaps they have already tried, perhaps email lycheesonline.com to see if they recommend it but then again, I remember reading that they use bee hives.

The Pros to your suggested method is perhaps the easy extraction/gathering of the male pollen and the water may potentially increase the longevity of the pollen by preventing dehydration of the pollen grains. I believe the innoculated water (pollen innoculated)may also increase the longevity of the female flowers but this is just a guess.

The Cons to your suggested method is that you are dilluting the pollen with however much water you plan on adding to your lid and also the concerns about contamination which I explained above. The increased humidity caused by this method may promote bacterial and fungal diseases even if you used sterile water because there are many spores floating around the open air which are part of the natural garden microflora.

Let me explain further what I mean about dilluting the pollen. Lets say you gather 10 pollen sacs and and place it in a jar. The pollen will be released and you should be able to see some pollen sticking to the sides of the jar. This is two dimensional because the pollen will stick only to the sides and bottom of the jar and if you were to dip the tip of a brush into the jar, you will amass an extremely high concentration of pollen at the tip of your brush and almost nowhere else. This brush with the high concentration of pollen will almost certainly fertilize any female flower it touches.

Now take this same jar with the same 10 pollen sacs and lets say you dilute this with about 5 mls of water. This would be three dimensional and you would be diluting the pollen at least one order of magnitude of course depending on how much water you actually add. You would not want to add too little water or else you will have too little material to work with and you would not want to add too much water because you don't want to dilute down your pollen too much. If you used an eye dropper, a brush or a spray bottle to pollinate your females, you again would have to think in the 3D because water forms droplets. Now when you put this pollen water onto the tiny tiny Y portion of receptive female Lychee flowers, the majority of pollen water may simply roll down and off the Y but it could stay there also and do the job.

OK, sorry about the horrible explanation, I think I don't even understand what I just wrote. I had 1 too many Heinekens. I'll try to make more sense when I sober up!

Simon,

Is this Jar Method a technique that you actually use, or are you just using it to illustrate your point? If you actually use the technique, can I get details, ie, how long in the jar until pollen released?

TIA

SB

Hey Stressbaby, I've used the jar technique with Cherimoyas and for the first time on Phase's lychees. It wasn't actually a jar but a very small, approx 8 ml sterile container to gather the Sweetheart lychee pollen into. After gathering several sacs of ripe pollen from Phase's Sweetheart lychee tree, I realized that the 8 mL container was waaaaaay too large and switched over to approx 700 microliter sterile containers.

I used the smaller size container because the pollen sacs were extremely small and I had to use fine tipper forceps to gather the pollen. Some of the pollen sacs were obviously unripe because there color was very white and when I plucked the sacs, I did not see any pollen released in the bright sunlight. In contrast, when I harvested the obviously ripe pollen which was more tan/orangish in color, I saw lots of dust like particle's released into the surrrounding area the the pollen sacs were tugged off and the flower spike whipped back into neutral position.

I was in a bit of a hurry and only had enough time to show Phase how to collect the pollen and I also demonstrated how to pollinate the receptive female flowers but in hindsite, I must recommend that Phase collect more pollen than I did and flick the collection container to release the pollen before attempting to pollinate the flowers.

Stressbaby, if you attempt this technique, I would recommend you use the same container but add newly collected pollen every day and store any unused pollen in a 2-8C refrigerator. I would try to use fresh pollen whenever possible and do what north tree man does and pollinate the flowers multiple times in consecutive days or as often as possible in order to guarantee fertilization of the ovaries.

Phase, perhaps if you have time to take some pics of the larger container and also the smaller container, it would help Stressbaby out to visualize what I was describing above.

Phase, your tree looks soooo nice and I really can't believe how beautiful and dense your flower spikes are. I hope you will be able to pollinate more females and get at least several lychees to full term. Just keep pollinating the females untill they all dry up because the tree will go through several phases of fruit drop. Good luck and keep us updated Phase!

@Phase- Great pics! Those are some tightly clustered panicles you have there. I'm sure you'll get a ton of lychees from them, considering Simon, and the bees, are on the job.

@SB- Hand that man a cigar!...sounds like you have some pollinated lychees growing. The stressful/annoying part is watching most of them drop off. Once they are about nickel sized, you should see them through to the end.

@Simon- That's a great technique you came up with, along with SB's version. Does it help resist the nectar gumming up the brush by using water? I still can't fathom this being done on a large scale using a sprayer/spray bottle, but at least we now have evidence that it works well in small scale...thanks to the two of you.

Sorry about any confusion guys, I din't actually use any water on Phase's Sweetheart Lychee plant, I did the dry technique because I feel safer with it. It is still overcast here in San Diego and the water dilution technique may promote fungal and bacterial growths.

I find it extremely peaceful hand pollinating my fruit trees and it really takes me away from my busy life and forces me to slow down and relax. Its really kinda like meditating. Phase's tree looks soooo good, you guys won't believe it. I bet the Phytophos did help with your super dense flower spikes. Phase's flowers were litteraly growing on top of each other and you could hardly see any stem. His tree also started busting out with many more males and there are still plenty of females that are receptive and many that are not even open yet.

I am really optomistic about lychee growing here in San Diego and in other regions around the USA. North tree man really inspired me to start growing lychees by proving that lychees can grow and even fruit in zone 7. Before, I would not have even attempted to grow No Mai Tsze but everything seems possible now with Exotica Nursery being able to grow and fruit the No Mai Tsze.

I really hope these Sweetheart Lychees do live up to its expectations and grow large fruit with extremely tasty flesh with a small seed. Several more months and north tree man and Phase should be able to deliver the verdict :)

Simon, thanks a bunch for coming over to help me with pollination and the containers. I am also really glad to get to know another lychee grower in san diego. Your technique makes a lot of sense to me, and I have attempted your technique a few times, including this morning. I will let you know how it turns out. If I do get some sweetheart lychees I will be sure to reserve some samples to you.

I am at work but I will take pictures of the containers later.

NTM, despite of tight clusters I have, I did not have much trouble with the nectar trapping the pollen. The bees are here all the time but I can't see the nectar clearly. maybe my tree does not produce as much nectar?

I also have a concern. some females have started dropping, which I expect, but some of the largest ones that clearly have been pollinated also started to drop. is this normal?

also, it seems that the pollinated females grow rather slowly. not sure if it has anything to do with the low temperature here (60's). but I still have many females opening, I am wondering if my dense flowers take too much energy from the tree and caused the slow growth. anything you guys that think might help?

I will add my thanks. I am managing expectations by convincing myself that all will drop. Count is up to 13 as of Sunday. One appears to be a double, does that happen?

Yes, the nectar stickiness problem was what prompted me to try the water. I'm sure I would have better luck if I pollinated more often than about every 3 days, but that's all the daylight time I can afford to spend on it right now.

Don't mention it Phase. I think your dense flower spikes took some energy away from your plant but not too much. Your plant knows how much fruit it can hold and will drop some fruit if it knows the conditions are not ideal and it doesn't have enough leaves for all the fruit.

I've read that you have to be very careful not to underwater but also not to overwater when Lychee trees are holding fruit.

so here are the containers that simon gave to me. I am using the smaller ones.

Nice pic taking skills Phase! I hope you are able to pollinate lots of your females. Thinking back, you sure did have a lot of bees around your Sweetheart Lychee tree. Keep us posted when your lychees get bigger!

Hey guys,

Definite pollinated lychee count up to 25 and "maybes" up over 50 on my 5 bloom spikes.

Will post some pics this weekend if I can.

SB

simon, will post pics when pollinated lychees progress to the next stage. The flowers pollinated by you and later myself seem to be swelling up.

right now almost all of the pollinated ones simply drop off after swelling up to a certain size. I think if they seem to stop swelling up it's a precursor that they will drop. I only have a couple with one side continuing to swell up and the other side dried up. This dropping is so stressful. I am still not sure if I will get anything.

I still have many females and males opening up so bees are still around all day. I saw some nectar this morning. guess I didn't look for it at the right time of the day. I even tasted some. It was sweet but I don't know if I can call it incredibly sweet. It's so tiny so I couldn't tell.

SB, please post some pics. It seems that you are getting a lot out of your 5 flow clusters.

Here are some pics I took on Saturday 5/23. I still have many left but they are quite small. NTM - what percentage of these will drop after this stage? I think mine fruits are 1.5 months after yours.

WOW Phase, those are looking super nice. It really does look like you got many pollinated flowers. It may be a good time to start adding a small amount of organic Fish/Kelp emulsion. I remember reading somewhere that you should very gradually start increasing the amount of water you give the plant untill the fruit are fully swelled up. Too much water right now and it can cause fruit drop. Too little water and the same thing can happen.

Looks like you should get a good harvest. According to the email I got from lycheesonline.com, they should ship us the Sweetheart lychees soon, perhaps this week. I will give you a call when I get it.

Great pics Phase!! Those lychees are looking really good. I'm sure you will be able to taste a lot from that crop, congrats! Can't wait to see them when they start to ripen. It will be so cool to see the red fruits on your tree, how exciting!

Phase- The typical drop ratio (from pollination to ripening) is around 90%. My Emperor had around 95% drop while my sweetheart is probably closer to the 90%. If you can hold a nickel up behind the fruit, and not see the nickel, then you can be confident that the fruit will go the distance. With all of those; I'm sure you'll get a nice harvest to munch on during the summer.

thanks guys. the fruits are far from nickel size. Looks like they've got a long way to go.

NTM, cant wait to see some pics of your fruits.

simon, I am not adding anything right now, right now I am mulching it out with some kelp/seaweeds. I heard it's good source for organic N and K. how different is it from Fish/Kelp emulsion?

pug, I got excite every time I think of my tree loaded with red fruits. at the same time I am trying hard to manage my expectation.

Hey Phase, if you use raw kelp/seaweed from the ocean, you have to be very careful to wash off all the salt. I would not recommend adding raw kelp or seaweed to the soil because green- uncomposted plant material can be Hot and will burn your plants like strong chemical fertilizers can. I would only recommend using composted yard waste in which microbial activity has already broken down the complex cellulose walls and released the bound nutrients.

Digging in any composted materials around the root area when the plant is holding fruit is also a bad idea because breaking any of the latteral roots will stimulate new root growth and new root growth is associated with fruit drop. I'll try to find the articles where I got this information and add the link when I get a chance.

Best to go to Armstrong Nurseries or Home Depot and find some organic Fish/Kelp Emulsion that you can just water in. I haven't recieved any emails from Lycheesonline yet regarding shipping of our Sweethearts and I'm not going to rush them because I want them to send us only the best fully ripened fruits.

Hi Simon, I always rinse the kelp multiple times before covering the bed with them. Kelp or seaweed contain low N and I do not see why they will be too hot for the plant since they are just sitting loosely on the top -- i.e., the soil below should still be able to absorb oxygen.

I used kelp last year and have been using it earlier this year. no adverse effects at all. The Fish/Kelp Emulsion may be nice but won't be as beneficial as the mulch in terms of improving the soil. Also, if I can get something for free I won't buy it from stores.

here is a thread on seaweed: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/organic/msg011038592168.html

a thread on mulching: http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/soil/2000054440018388.html

Guess what!
Me and my friends each got ourself a Longan Tree (5 gallon)
and planted this year.
and all of our tree have flowered and now showing fruit...Yahoo!
ME in Fremont, Guy2 in Oakland, and Guy3 in South San Francisco!

If only when i put the Mauritius Lychee in my fremont ground will end up the same...
Will update in about a month...
Wish me luck.

Oh, how in the world can you attach pic in this post?

hi nomoreidea, good to hear about your success in north CA. it's unlikely that lychee trees will produce flowers this late in the year. I feel that bay area is the borderline weather for lychee survival - I think mature trees are able to survive the winter but not sure about young trees. are you putting it in the ground? or in a pot?

as to posting pics, use <img src="http://url_to_photo">;, where http://url_to_photo is the URL of the pic

Hello Phase, just wondering how your Sweethearts are looking? Hopefully you still have a good number hanging on your tree :) I'm really excited about the Sweetheart trees we have and wonder if they will grow as big as the ones we ordered. I bet yours will be sweeter because yours should be ripening in the full SoCal Summer sun. They say lychees taste differently according to where they are grown and with the genetics of the Sweetheart variety grown in conditions where they ripen in full sun, I'm very excited to see how yours turn out!

Hi Simon, here are some pics I took yesterday. they have gone through many rounds of dropping. But due to the high density of the flowers I have great variation in terms sizes. The smaller ones are just bean-sized as you would see later.

I still got many fruits left, but most of them are quite small, and the fruit drop continues - even the larger ones. very painful to watch.

this is the largest one that I have. you can see that it's nearly nickel size. are they growing too slow? These I believe were pollinated in late April or early May. notice the much smaller ones on the side.

many small ones here:

Nice pictures Phase! Apparently lychee season in CA is later than FL, I wonder if your low humidity/heat plays some role in how fast or slow the fruit grows? It looks as if you will have quite a lot once they start growing and ripening. I agree about the fruit drop, its disheartening to watch them drop at an alarming rate...even though they look big enough to stay on. Mangoes are the same way...too many fall off. What a waste!

Good luck, but I'm sure you will be eating them soon enough! Thanks for the update.

Wow Phase, those look really good so far. If you look at the short stem that the lychees are attached you can sort of judge which ones will fall off. The ones that are really thin and start turning brown are the ones that will drop off shortly. If the stem appears to be getting fatter, at least one of the lychees should grow some more unless the tree senses it cannot support the fruit.

I'm really surprised at how many fruit you still have hanging on, I was thinking you would have about half of what your pictures show. I really like the Sweethearts we ordered and I bet they will taste even better off our own trees. Your tree is still really young and I can't even imagine how many fruits it will have in another 5-10 years. Should I call Lycheesonline and tell them that the San Diego Chapter is opening soon, LOL, ha ha!

Well, you should also know that Lucky Seafood has some Kent mangoes and they are super sweet but they seem to have a little fiber this year, probably because they used too much artificial fertilizer. When I get my own place, I'm going to plant a Kent Mango also. Not sure if you are interested but I have some special Dragonfruit that I ordered from Pine Island Nursery at my old house. These varieties are super tasty and sweet, unlike those nasty bland white ones from the supermarket. I have Halley's Comet, Yellow Dragonfruit, American Beauty and several other varieties. You can have a free cutting if you like because we are remodeling our old house and I have to get rid of all my plants. Let me know if you are interested.

Keep up the great documentation of your lychee growing experience. In several years, your lanky tree will grow stronger and be the envy of Lychee lovers around San Diego. I wonder if your natural seaweed has something to do with your dense flower buds? Hard to tell since I recall you also using Phytophos. Either way, the combination seems to work great!

Hey Phase, any updates on these beauties? Don't save any for me because we already ate so many from the ones we purchased online. It would be great however if you could document how your home grown ones compare to the ones we purchased. I wonder if they will grow as large and have the atrophied seeds and if they will be as sweet? I hope you still have a good number hanging on your tree.

simon, I just returned from a long vacation. I am glad to find out that I have some lychees left and they are just turning red. I will post pics later.

I tasted a split one which was just turning red. It is already sweet with hint of tartness. The seed is small but not the chicken tongue type.

Welcome back Phase!! Glad to hear you still have some Lychees, can't believe how late your Lychee season is in CA. Looking forward to pics. Hope you had a great vacation!!

Hey Phase, I hope you had a good vacation. Are your Sweethearts similar in size to the ones we ordered? I've read that it can take several years before a tree will start producing more atrophied seeds. With how well your tree is producing, you are going to have some great harvests in about 10 years. Keep us updated!

Those are excellent Phase...Congrats!! Keep them away from the Squirrels and birds(or whatever else is lurking in your yard). You've worked and waited too long/hard to have them mess with it,lol..

Enjoy!!

OMG, I can't believe you still have so many hanging on your tree. NTM's lychee trees drop a lot more fruit probably because his are in pots. Your tree is looking amazing and the fruit size looks very similar to what we ordered. I think your fruit still has a lot more plumping to do since the edges are still sharp. The web sites say to harvest when the ridges are rounded and they also said most the size is gained in the last couple of days.

My Sweetheart lychee had a really nice Summer flush and I hope to close escrow on my first house within a month or two and can't wait to plant all my trees into the ground! Keep up the great documentation Phase!!!

WOW. such a nice looking tree. Can wait for my sweetheart to fruit. Since it's in the ground maybe you can give it a little fertilizer.

Very nice! May we ask where you purchased your lychee tree? Thanks!

Hey Phase,

Long time no talk, any updates on your Sweetheart and Kaimana Lychee? I finally put my Sweetheart into the ground about a year ago and it has a partial flower flush going on right now. My small Kaimana also has a partial flower flush but I will remove all fruit from it this year. By partial flower flush, I mean it started out as leaves but the top growth has some flower spikes starting to grow. My flower panicles appear to be really small this year. I hope all your plants are doing good this year.
Simon

Simon,

both my Sweetheart and Kaimana Lychee have flower flush going on. the Sweetheart is doing well - but no fruits last year. I hope it is not bi-annual bearing. I will try to get some pics posted.

Kaimana did not grow too much, unfortunately.

Hi Phase...Nice to see your post! Looking forward to pictures of your Lychee trees...hopefully, you get fruits this year.

Hey Phase, good to see you are still on the forums. Kaimana does appear to be a slower grower but Quang's Kaimana is sure doing pretty well. Is you Kaimana large enough to let it hold fruit? I think we would be pretty lucky if our Sweetheart is alternate bearing. I really love that they have mostly chicken tongue seeds and have really large fruit. The secret to overcoming the alternate bearing is to plant multiple varieties of Lychee trees. You are already considered very lucky to have several harvests from your Sweetheart. You should get more and more fruit each year. Hope to see some pics:)
Simon

simon, pug, good to see you around. I check this site from time to time.

difficult to post pics directly to this forum, but I just published some pics:

click here

Thanks for the photos Phase...that's a LOT of blooms!!

You can use GW (look on the right hand side just below the "Post a Follow up" where it says "Browse... to post your photo but it only lets you post one picture at a time...

Hey Phase, great update! Your Sweetheart looks like it will hold some good fruit this year. My Kaimana is about the same size as yours and it is also flowering. My Sweetheart is flowering this year and I hope I will be able to taste my first lychee from this tree this year. Keep up the great work and give me a call if you want to come check out my plants.

Simon

pug, i am sure that your trees have recovered from the freeze and are thriving. would be nice to see some pics...

Simon, would be nice to see your pics too

Hi Phase...as you know I lost 2 of my lychee trees in the 2010 freeze :o(...I replaced one of them in 2011 with a Mauritius.

Here it is appx. 2 years old and its fruiting for the very first time...I'm very excited and hope to try a few soon!

Some of the fruits...

I have to show you a couple of my mango trees that survived the winter's past...

Some fruits that set...I hope some of them make it to maturity...

Pugs, your trees are amazing as always! Sorry for your loss but your new trees are doing so well. really pleased to see your pics.

hopefully you will get some mangoes and lychees this year. please keep us updated.

Hi, I have seen you flower photos on Lychee on Houz and would like to use them as an illustration for a student. Can you please e-mail me your details in order for me to give you the credit should you allow me to use them. Regards Zelda

zeldab@arc.agric.za