Have you tried the fruit of the Carrie and NDM?

Either would work. I think I would go with NDM if those are your final choices as you would have a longer fruiting season. Carrie and Cogshall are both more "early" season mangoes. But there are many others I might consider.

Harry

murahilin, no, I have not tried either cultivar. By all reports both are highly favored. I a mango fan, so I can't imagine I'll be disappointed with either. Given my druthers, I prefer my mangoes to be on the somewhat firm side, if that makes a difference in any of this.

Harry, as for the others you might consider, you have my attention. What else is worth considering?

I am definitely the exception and not the rule when it comes to not liking Carrie because of the occasional hint of herb or medicine flavor that its been known to have when its not picked at the right time.

Have you considered Pickering...its a very good tasting mango, tree is very small but the fruits are not "pretty' or large. Lancetilla is another choice...fruits are much larger and tree can be kept at 10-12 ft with regular pruning.

So many choices so little room,lol...Good luck!

jsvand5, yes, definitely limited to one tree in addition to the existing Cogshall. That's why I want to consider all choices and get a variety of opinions.

pug, have not considered Pickering or Lancetilla. I'll do some reading on these. Thank you.

Carbos,
Since you have not tried either I agree with jsvand and I think you should wait until mango season to try some of the different mangos available. Many people recommend the same 5 or 10 mangos but there are many more that taste really good and are available in South Florida. Harry lives pretty close to you and he sells mangos during mango season. I think he has 80 something different varieties. Excalibur as jsvand said also has many different varieties available to try during the summer.

Tough choice, but I'd probably go nam doc mai #4. While the carrie is super delicious, the NDM #4 stays smaller and is more productive (in my observations at least). The fruit is also very yummy. The only drawback is that the NDM #4 is a bit more picky when it comes to cultural practices: if you give it too much nitrogen or water the fruit will all split :-(.

One important thing to point out about mango selection based on trying the fruit: the flavor of a mango is semi-dependent on cultural practice. A mango that's delicious in sandy soil can be mediocre when grown in muck and vice versa. It's well known that the flavor and sweetness of a mango (and many other fruits) can change depending on fertilization practices. For example, Dr Campbell claims that his mangoes grown with 0-0-51 have higher sugar content than those grown by traditional methods. Moreover, the flavor of a mango can change from year to year. So, you could try a mango at Excalibur and not be super impressed. Yet, the same mango grown under different practices might be quite delicious. I think this is part of the reason why fairchild curator's choice mangoes are not always well received; they likely need to be grown under certain conditions to produce the perfect flavor.

Jeff

Excellent Point Jeff!! Very well put and makes a lot of sense!

An interesting story that correlates with your post Jeff is one that I was told by a researcher in Australia. Kensington Pride is a polyembronic mango and the leading cultivar in Australia and so they are constantly doing research on it. They noticed differences in some trees found throughout the country so they began to collect budwood and graft them to grow in one location to possibly select for an improved KP. After years of collecting and planting out the selections in one field the trees finally began to fruit and they were all the same exact mango. All the differences they noticed while growing in their original locations were no longer there when planted within the same field. I think they had around 50 trees growing at the new location. It goes to show how much some mangos are affected by their growing conditions.

Ohh that's super interesting (and a bit funny :-), Sheehan!

Jeff

Jeff, what is NDM #4 that I have sometimes read about? What differentiaties #4 from other varieties of NDM? And is it readily available?

puglvr, took a look at Lancetilla. Sounds like a good fit for my situation. Hmmm. . .you've given me more to think about.

The nam doc mai #4 is a variation of the nam doc mai. Here's the little I know on the differences between the two (the regular NDM and the NDM #4) based on observations between my neighbor's NDM #4 and my regular NDM:

NDM #4

• Precocious (begins to bear very young)
• Heavier bearing
• Multiple crops
• More dwarf
• Prone to splitting (my neighbor lost her entire crop to splitting this year!)
• Slightly smaller fruit?
• More 'scraggly' growth habit

Regular NDM

• Takes a couple of years to start bearing reliably (not precocious)
• Bears quite well but can have somewhat of an alternate bearing habit
• Bigger tree
• Not as prone to splitting (I only had 1 or 2 split mangoes out of the 150 or so on the tree!)
• More dome shaped growth habit

The advantage of the regular NDM is that you get less splitting, but if you don't live in muck soil and keep the tree low in nitrogen, this should not be a problem.

The number 4 nam doc mai is quickly become easier to find than the regular nam doc mai. Pine Island now only sells the #4 and Zill's has halted propagation on the regular nam doc mai (in favor of the #4).

Jeff

Interesting info. Thank you, Jeff.

Nam doc Mai and Carrie are both excellent mangos. They are completely different so if you haven't tasted them it would be hard to make a recommendation, like choosing between cantaloupe and watermelon

I planted Carrie because of its excellent reputation. Turns out, I can't stand them. From my own garden, Glenn remains my favorite followed by NDM. Ice Cream has disappointed.

Clearly, there are lots of people who LOVE Carrie- so my take away point is to always try before you buy.

Couple of things about the carrie: For one, this year was an off year. The majority of the carrie mangoes I harvested had a different flavor from years prior. I think it has to do with the bizarre winter/spring that we had this year, being one of the hottest and driest on record. Secondly, few people know when to harvest and eat a carrie. The carrie can be harvested when almost totally green. A very slight yellowish cast at the nose of the mango indicates that it's ready to pick. Then, unlike other mangoes, you must eat it right away (within a day or two). If you let it sit any longer, it gets a funky, strong flavor. It takes some trial and error to figure out when to eat the carrie, but when eaten at the right time, it's an excellent mango that is juicy, creamy, sweet, and tangy. In most years it's my favorite mango.

Jeff

Strictly based on flavor I much prefer Carrie.....and oddly enough, I used to hate Carrie, but it has since become one of my favorite mangoes in terms of flavor. I like NDM but am not as 'wild' about it as most people. I find Carrie's flavor to be much more complex and rich. NDM also gets post-harvest anthracnose that Carrie seems to resist.

I've talked to a lot of growers who say the exact same thing Jeff said about what stage to pick Carrie, and have heard the 'eat it on the same day' statement as well. It does tend to get soft VERY quickly.

I'm SO happy the Carrie mango tree I have turned out NOT to be Carrie after all. I remember eating them several years ago and not liking it at all. Had a medicine or herb taste...kind of hard to describe, but a very "off" unpleasant taste. After reading several posts here, it just sounds pretty complicated and confusing exactly when the best time to pick them. I do understand that taste is subjective... but for me I'm very happy my tree is NOT Carrie.

Nancy,

what do you mean your tree is not a Carrie? How was it marked?

JF

For me the medicinal taste of Carrie is a sweet pine oil kind of taste that is stronger close to the skin. I like that taste. AS far as NDM versus Carrie I would get both. Both can easily be kept small if you want.

Hi JF, In 2005 I got a tree in Miami that was labeled "Carrie"...I shouldn't have purchased it but I've read SO many that really Love it so I thought I would give it a second chance. Thought maybe the ones I had years before were not the norm. This year it finally fruited for the very first time since I've had the tree (freeze kept killing the blooms and severely damaging the tree). After posting the thread below we've come to the conclusion its NOT a Carrie after all.

Here is a link that might be useful: Is This Carrie Post...

Many years ago I had a Nam Doc Mai, and would lose most of the fruit to splitting.
But I think I saw a post here recently saying that this problem can be reduced by avoiding nitrogen fertilizer??