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pancrazio

Advancing with mangos

Pancrazio
12 years ago

Hey everyone.

I just tought would have been interesting for someone in same zone as me to see what i have done till now about trying to grow mango out of they climate.

For me the main point is the winter, wich can be very cold. I think (even if i can't be 100% sure) that i have enough heat in summer to let mangos ripe (at least the early one) so the point for me is keeping the plant alive from december to march.

For now (it is a work in progress, i'll take the building part back in september i guess) i have built the concrete part of the work (this part will stay there all year long).

You can see it there:

This is a nice Glenn mango that i have been finally able to buy. It also has some fruits, wich i'd like to see ripen this summer, so i can at least undesrtand if mangos can ripe here. If i prune back the new grow (i'd like to get a compact plant, i NEED a compact plant to keep it covered) is likely to see it drop the fruits, right?

The south wall (wich is the one in shadow in this picture) is 3 feet tall wil the east wall is 7 feet tall. I putted the block around the plant because, in my opinion, i really hard to avoid cold air to pass on ground level when you build a structure: in windy nights even little holes can drag a lot of heat: plus it is easier to build a stable structure if you have some concrete block to rely upon.

I filled the block with dirt to increase their thermal mass a insulation: the blocks are this made:

I can give detailts on the project if someone is interested, but i don't know how much this is usable in usa.

This is a lemon planted from my grandfather: it lives pretty well here, on milder witer it doesn't even need a cover:

This is a citrus instead: it does some nice sized fruits.

Back on mango: this glenn in ground of the pic above is starting to show those black spot on some (3-4) leaves. Should i be worried? What i should do? It has been putted in ground just 10 days ago, it looks like it is willing to put out some new growt, but it has developed also those black leaves wich i don't like.

Here's a pic:

I already gave some copper and sulphur but doesn't seems to have any effect. Can be the excess of sun and heat? Here hasn't been exceptionally hot (85-86F) but plant is just freshly planted in ground...

Comments (76)

  • phxplantaddict
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think a foot depth of mulch on that ground would help

  • zands
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You put lots of work into this. I like the water for thermal mass, preserving some daytime warmth. Plus concrete blocks and wall=thermal mass. I think I see one mango in a pot for your backup plan

  • phucvu
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    wow.

    your blood must be 100% olive oil hehe.

  • esco_socal
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ZANDS !!!!! you've got mail
    (sorry for hijacking)

    Tim

  • pikorazi
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great job! Water for thermal mass is also a very good idea!

    Good luck :-)

  • mangodog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pan - you done real good.

    Got all the angles going and heat-storing started. I'm guessing it could take more of those blue barrels like the one you got in there, if you had room, and I would paint them black or a darker color - that will absorb the most heat from the sun. I'd paint the inside concrete blocks dark too, also maybe the back wall and maybe put some dark gravel on the floor for drainage and more heat gain. I think in your cold climate you want everything light touches to absorb it's heating capacity.

    One last thing - think about ventilation of some kind for at the end of winter when you start getting some warmer days - in an air tight setup you can cook plants even if the outside temp does not seem that cold. I'm sure you'll keep a thermometer in there....

    But all in all, I think you are ready to be the envy of all of Italy! (it is Italy where you live, right?)

    :)

    MD

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @phucvu: Hehe. My brother works in a restaurant so we don't have a shortage of used olive oil cans, and indeed here we use olive oil for almost any recipe. Anyway i like those 1-gallon can (those are actually 5 litres cans) because they exchange heat quickly, being made of metal.

    @mangodog: Right, i'm in italy. I think your idea of black paint is really good, i'm willing to do it but right now i haven't enough time. I just putted inside two more 25 gallon black drums. For now, anyway, i'm pretty happy. Tonight we have had 32F and the thermometer inside the cover (just close to the graft point) simply showed 51F: I need some more datas but i'm impressed, even if lately we have had sunny days wich are the best to maximize the greenhouse efficency. I recorded just the temperatures of last week, but before i started records we have had some night at 29 with no damage at all. Instead of damage the plant has putted out a growt flush! It is hardening right now.
    Regarding the high temperature: i'm worried too but i must admit that i don't have a plan. I can't add anything right now, to be honest, because i fear to cripple everything. I think that the most simple solution is to open the plastic cover on the roof while keeping the struture intact: this will allow the heat to escape and will still provide some protection from light frosts.

    @phxplantaddict: I don't know if i should add the mulch. I haven't no clue about this but i think (seems reasonable to me) that i can rely on bare ground for some more heat exchange. I fear, if i add the much, to better help the root but also decrease the air temperature during the night (wich is my primary concern).

    @zands: Yes, i have some more mangos in pots (the few ones i was able to gather here in italy). If i wont be successfull anyway, i won't try with a mango once more, but i think i will go for a lychee, wich should be a bit more cold tolerant. So far i haven't had problems with lemons, so i guess that lychee, that are just a bit more tender, should be doable. The downside is that mangos, except for frost, seem to more a bit more easy to grow overall, but frost is obviusly a big problem.

    Let's hope for best! Thank you all!

  • jfernandez
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pancrazio,

    Where are you in Italia? I have cousins in Barcelona and they can't even grow an Avocado. I wish you the best of luck; your structure looks very cool. I hope it keeps your mango tree warm.

    JF

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also hope for success.
    I live in Florence, Tuscany ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence ).
    It's strange indeed that your cousins aren't able to grow an avocado. Barcelona seems pretty hot in winter (surely way hotter than here) and grapefruit and avocados should thrive there. Of course since apparently winter can be cold, expecially outside the center of the city, maybe an appropriate selection of the cultivar should be done. Anyway in Barcelona growing mangos must be possible.

  • jfernandez
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pancrazio

    I've never seen a mango or an Avocado tree in Barcelona and I've been there in different seasons. I have family who live in the city and my son spend two semesters up there. The winter seem way too cold especially when it freezes - that's like trying to grow a mango or an avocado tree in Atlanta. I think below Valencia it might be doable otherwise you have to head way down south to Malaga or Cadiz. Good luck!

    JF

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I really don't know why they don't grow mangoes there. I can only guess that it is similar to Italy: mango's taste doesn't fit well in the local cuisine, so, except for those of us that really like the fruit, there is little reason to grow them. You won't find them in many recipes, the demand will always be low: it will takes decades to make them more widespread.
    Anyway i want to thank you for the Atlanta example: it seems very similiar to the climate of Florence. ;) There are, of course, some differences (we don't have, for example, "frost spells" the temperature here rarely drops so much has happens in USA, because we have the Alps blocking the air from the North pole) but the climate seems more or less the same.

    Anyway i posted here just to say that for now the "solar greenhouse" works better than i expected. It is keeping the temperature consistently 16-18F abouve the temperature outside WITHOUT any electrical input. Solar power used at 100%. I didn't install the chicken heater at all. Last week we have had 5 days with sub freezing nights (during the second night we had 22,6F, during the third we had 26F and during the fourth night we had 22F. The other night were at 28F.). The days were sunny but record high has been 42F. Even this, the record low inside the cover has been 40.5F. Even the new growt hasn't been damaged, so now i'm starting to feel a bit optimistic. This is now way a record low on a multi-year perspective, but these temperature are for sure well under the average for my city, so i can imagine it won't get much more colder that this. Next six/eight weeks anyway will be the hardest, and if something can go wrong, it will happen then, but now i hope to be able to keep the plant alive till spring.

  • nullzero
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pancrazio,

    Congrats on your greenhouse construction and surviving mango tree. I take it you plan to vigorously prune to keep the trees small and contained, in the greenhouse structure? Or are you planning to expand the height in the future?

  • mangodog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    IF you get the time, Pan, painting that wall black and putting more black water-filled containers in there could make the diff. during the challenging next 6-8 weeks.

    I so want you to succeed!!!!!!! You're doin' GREAT!!!!!

    Please report every couple weeks over this winter, OK????

    MangoDog who's Rootin' for you!

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @nullzero
    Thank you. Yes, i plan to prune it. I really don't know how much vigorously... here mangos don't grow much. I don't expect big flushes: basically all the time they have enough heat, they should also have fruit attached, so they shouldn't have a lot of energy for vegetative growt.
    Next year anyway i will hard prune the plant. I want it as bushy as possible... sems the right thing to do but i'm upset about the delay in my first "serious" mango crop... i need it also very soon to see if fruit growt and taste are somewhat normal.
    I can't expand the heigh, no way. It's long and boring to explain but here there are some laws aganist that, and the structure now is as high as much as law permits.

    @mangodog
    Yes, i followed your suggestions, and i must admit it helped! I haven't take any picture yet. I putted in two big balck drums filled with water. I just didn't paint the wall because during summer it is visible, and i don't want it black. Thank you for your interest!

    I'll update you all in some weeks.

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A little update. We have had two horrible nights, with temperature about 21F. Into the cover, anyway, the air didn't go lower than 41F.
    So far those were the wrost nights of this winter, but at the end of january air starts to get a little hotter, so things should be get better and better starting from now. Statistically we can have very cold nights for the next month, but from now they start to become "less likely" instead of "more likely".
    Things are working incredibly well, for now: today, when i got in the cover to weekly check the minimun temperature, and i noticed what looked like a developing bloom spike. I think that it will be unlikely to see this spike to flower, but apparently the plant is doing fine.

  • samuelforest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wish you luck :) You've have a really nice setup BTW.

    Samuel forest

  • jfernandez
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello Pancrazio

    We are all pulling for you do, you know of anyone in your area who is growing mangos? I would imagine that 21F would be the coldest it gets on zone 8b but I don't know your weather history?

    JF

  • bcfromfl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just thought I'd add my two cents to this thread. I successfully grow and fruit Mallika and Nam Doc Mai in Zone 8a, in the ground. I build cages around my trees that are four feet high and six feet across, and wrap with a heavy duty black plastic tarp. (Hold down the bottom edge with bricks.) Coiled beneath each tree is a few feet each of a long warming cable. I don't bother covering the top of each cage with a frost blanket until temps drop under 35F, and I also plug in the warming cable at this time too.

    We've had temps down to 17F, and below freezing for many hours. I'm sure the enclosures have dipped below freezing too on occasion, but have never had serious damage to the grafted mangos. I'm only getting about 50 watts per tree with the warming cable, so a 60-watt light bulb (while you can still buy them!) would be perfect.

    Mango enthusiasts are crazy...

    -Bruce

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @samuelforest:
    Thank you. I really like your support. :)

    @jfernandez:
    Thank you. Unfortunatly i don't know anyone. Moreover, local forums where i talked about it strongly discoraged me even form trying it. I dunno why, since nobody else has ever tired it apparently, but that was their suggestion.
    Yes, 21F can be pretty cold here, but it can be even colder. Last year for example we had 14F. This was somewhat exceptional but nothing unheard of.
    I think you can image my climate pretty much similiar to the climate you would find in Atlanta. Average temperature are very similiar. I can't tell you about extremes temperatures anyway. Obviusly i know mine but i haven't any idea about what happens there in USA. Usually here we have some kind of steady cold temperature, while i think that in usa you get more a "cold and hot" pattern.
    I think anyway the main factor to keep in mind is that i'm on 45N. Even in the brightest of winter day, our sun isn't very strong. We don't get very cold temperatures, but our winter days aren't hot too. Not even close to hot.

    @bcfromfl
    Hi Bruce. So what we are going to do is pretty similiar!
    I didn't put any warming cable, or any heater. As you can see from previuos posts, at the begininnig i tought to put in a chicken heater. Later, the lack of founds, the need to keep the project simple and the impressive beginning of the cover convinced me that it wasn't needed.
    To be honest i'm really happy about this: this is a true solar greenhouse, powered by solar energy. So, there are also some kind of environmental benfits.
    Of course, to get this effect i have had to make a bigger and uglier structure than most people think it is reasonable. :) But, for now, i'm pretty happy with it. :)
    Luckily i have been able to keep the structure pretty tall (7 feet) so i guess i don't need to be particlarly strict on pruning. But on a multi year perspective, i must adrmit that this year it will take some good pruning to start shaping the tree.
    Now the next point, for me, is to see how the plant behave on pollination/ripening. Our summer is very short!
    I'm envious about the selection of mangos you have. :) I think a Pickering could have done well here, expecially regarding size control/fruiting but i have been able to find only a Glenn. Even if i think that Glenn is my best shot, i think that some experimenting isn't a bad idea.

  • bcfromfl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think you'll be really happy with your Glenn, and given your structure size, you should still get a good yield with the pruning you're going to have to do.

    The one thing I wonder about your setup is summertime temps. Do you plan on removing the panels each spring, and replace in fall? Also, you'll be sacrificing some sun, which might impact yield, or ripening. Another issue might be mold or fungus without good air movement. I grow orchids in my greenhouse, so I'm familiar with these issues!

    I think one of the mistaken assumptions about mangos is that since they are a "tropical", they can't withstand, or even thrive, in cooler wintertime temps. At least in my experience, this isn't true.

    Happy growing!

    -Bruce

  • mangodog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Interesting contrast between bc's soil-warming cable setup and Pancrazios passive solar....keep it up guys!

    Pan - I couldn't be happier for you. Hope you turn the corner and see some spring. Yeah, the sight of flowers coming out of a mango is very exciting, isn't it? I've seen it on 10 trees at once, and it's still exciting to see!!!! It means something beautiful is about to be born.....

    keep us posted.....MangoD

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @bcfromfl: Yes, the entire structure is removable. Hopefully (i haven't tried it yet) it will take little space in my box when it is unmounted. Every piece of it is very flat, so it should take little space.
    I want it to be removable because i want the plant to be seen during summer, since a mango here is an unbelievable sight in summer :) Removing all the panels when temperature rise up should avoid any problem with fungi or molds: i'm more worried about the drop of temperature the fruit will experience from a protected envinroment to the relatively cool climate they will have without panels, but we will see.

    Yes, i'm not thinking mangos as tropicals. I would say the are subtropicals. For example, what i'm doing with mangos would be plain impossibile with other plants, let's say cocoa. Of course mangos are more tender than a lemon, wich is clearly a subtropical, but still they can take more cold than most people would think. As far form my (limited) experience.

    @mangodog: Indeed this was spectacular. I wasn't able to believe to my eyes... but it's likely that they will never flower.

    This is because something scary is coming right here. Some people on metereological forum talk about it as the wrost cold spell of the last 30-50 years.
    I hope it won't happen, but some people talk about 27F under the normal average temperatures. For my city they talk about a maximun of 23F on 3 February. I really don't know what will happen, still i'm very worried. Today i'll try to do something to protect the plant just in case of snow.
    This is what is said to come:

    Temperature are in Celsius. I live just at north of that nice -16 you can see in central italy.
    As you can see according this model Italy will be as cold as costal Greenland. I'm not very optimistic.

  • mangodog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In this emergency situation, Pan, can't you run an extension cord out to the structure and plug in some kind of hot light, or heater just for the coldest nights of this record cold that's coming????

    All you got to do is keep it so it doesn't drop below 0 degrees C (32)....that would be my suggestion....

    You've GOT to keep this Glenn alive, cuz each year it grows and gets older it produces not only more fruit, but can protect itself better with its size.

    And I'd leave the structure covering the tree until you see temps consistently above 65 degrees during the day. Do you have to take the panels off early? By keeping it warmer in the spring, it will flower and set it's fruit faster, then you can take the structure off for your hottest 3-4 months, then put it back on to finish the ripening of the fruit, if indeed it takes that long - mine take about 4 months to ripen from little babies, and I'm sure I get more total heat than you...

    what do you think?

    mangoperro

    (and where do u live exactly in Italy as I want to follow your temps with Weather Underground)

  • mangodog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pan - I reread your post above and see you are in Florence. Weather Underground has a predicted 10 degrees fahrenheit a week from today, I think that's the night of Feb. 5 - shockingly low, the lowest by far of anything in the next 7 days.....

    I'll be checking it often to see is the predictions change.....Best of Luck with your supplemental heat...

    MangoD

  • bcfromfl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry to learn of the cold weather heading your way!

    I ran some calculations to estimate what the BTU/wattage requirement would be to raise the interior temperature of your structure from 3F (-16C) to 35F. I made some assumptions about the dimensions to calculate the interior volume. I used a peak height of 6m, and width and length of 6m as well. Close enough to provide a good number.

    I also wasn't sure if you used single-wall or double-wall panels for your covering. If it's single-wall, you'll need about 5376 BTUs, or 1575 watts. If it's double-wall, you'll need about 3175 BTUs, or 930 watts.

    Now, the unknown is what energy you'll be able to pull out of the cinder block wall, or the containers of water. I actually ran these calculations years ago when I was trying to design a passive solar-heated greenhouse. Unfortunately, the answer is, "Not much." Because of the poor transfers of energy involved, and the lack of available storage, there is little stored energy potential. Active solar heating (water pumps, radiators, etc.) is another matter.

    Looks like, at any rate, a simple 1500-watt heater will solve your problem. If you run it on a heavy-duty extension cord to reach the enclosure, figure you'll drop to an output of about 1200 watts. In my experience, I think the mango can take a dip under 32F -- as long as it's covered and protected from wind and frost -- so you should be fine.

    Hope this helps.

    -Bruce

  • bcfromfl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just realized a stupid typo in my post above. I meant to type "2m" instead of "6m". BIG difference! (I had six feet on the brain...)

    The calculation are all correct.

    -Bruce

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi everyone, thank you for your interest.

    @Mangodog: Yes, i putted an extension cord just yesterday, and i found an electrical heater. It also has a "no frost" function. Despite the fact that i haven't been able to found official documentation, i think it turns on the heater at 5C (41F).
    Today i will search for some thermostat that turn on on 32-34F, but if i don't find it i'll be stuck on that integrated thermostat.
    I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing.
    This is the scenario i see.
    It will snow, something between 0,75 and 1,3 feet of snow. I hope for the max snow possible, because it would give a great insultation to the structure.
    This should drop the temperature inside the structure and put it around 32C.
    Now the problem is that, if that happens, the heater will turn on, blowing air at 70F inside the structure, till the air has reached 41F at ground level, when the heater is. The hot air will rise, so i'll soon have the roof of the structure very hot (relatively speaking) much more than the soil. This could, over the days, melt the snow... so it would bring a less effective insulation over the hours/days.
    This is what i'm thinkng now, a way to keep the heat around the plant and not use it to melt the snow!
    As for now, i wrapped the trunk with bubble plastic, a putted cloth around it, till the graft point. Today i'll cover branches with some frost clost.
    Another think i'm worried about is that the heater will suck all the water from the air. So, i'm trying to cover all the branches to avoid the dry air to suck too much moisture from them.
    The temperature they forecast change almost every day: i'm not sure what will happen, but i fear the wrost. Usually the underestimate the level of cold that can be touched. We have had a similiar event in 1985 and that year in my city we touched -9,75F (yes, that's right). Every 30 years or so it can happen, but i didn't expected it for sure on my first year with a mango! An usual winter is what we have had till now...
    Now (3PM) weather is sunny, but temperature is 41 and dropping.
    If you are interested you can watch what is happening on the Florence airport: is just 1,5 mile from my house. The code is LIRQ . It is much more accurate than Florence city.

    @bcfromfl. Hey bruce, thank you very much! I have a 2000W heater so i should be fine. Yes, i used a double walled, because, as you can imagine, being solar "passive" i wanted to limitate as much as possible heat loss. This should help now.
    As for water, i divided it in 3 different kind of countainers. There are some 1 gallon (5 litres) metal container, that should be the "quick exchangers", because the are made of metal and realtively small. Then i have some intermediate 4 gallon (20 litres) containers, where water is closed in a thin wall of plastic, then i have 3 25 gallons (100 litres) containers, the black drums. I don't know how much they will help now.
    To be honest, i hoped a lot on the latent heat of water to help on the coldest night of the year, but as you said, and i'm aware of, heat transfer plays a big role here. Now, water turning ice emits tremendous amount of heat, but if it doens't happen quick enough, the structure will become a fronzen tomb anyway.
    Well, i'll stick with electric heater this time, because i don't want to have wasted all the money and time just to see my plant whiter and die on next days. But i will admint that i'm pretty curious on what could happen if i would just bury the strucutre under the snow (at, hopefully, 28-30F) and let the water on the drums turn ice. Basically is what you do in Florida with oranges, right?

    Im pretty sure that there are a lot of typos and grammar errors, sorry for that.

  • puglvr1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pan, SO sorry to hear about the freeze coming your way. I sure wish you the BEST of luck!! We're all pulling for you to succeed. Please be careful and be safe with whatever method you choose.

    Please keep us updated and hopefully, it won't be as Cold as predicted.

    Good luck!!

  • Mark833
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Pancrazio . Hope you´ll save your mango! I have mine in container , it´s "Irwin". "Russians" are really sending us very nasty presents.... We are expecting minimums -20F on friday and also on weekend. And could be even worse.

    Anyway , I keep my fingers crossed for you.

    Mark.

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @puglvr1: Pug, thank you. Can you believe me? Your post about your struggle for keeping your mangos alive were the inspiration for me when about two years ago, i decided to do this. I tried to be as safe as possible, i putted the heater in a place where water can't drop over him and even a little flood can't reach it. I hope your winter is finished!

    @Mark883: Hey Mark! It's nice to see some other EU member. :) Well, yes, i didn't liked this gift from russia, for sure! You in Czech Republic, i bet, are having an hard time now... Let's hope for the best! Compared to you i'm feeling so lucky, we at least have had the adriatic sea and appenine helping to moderate the cold.
    I'm really interested in your methods of growt and your results. Where you purchased your irwin? Why you choosed that cultivar? I'm always searching for all the cool cultivar i see here but seems that putting our hands on a florida cultivar is way harder than i expected.

    For everyone: in my opinion wrost case scenario is coming. We have just had 1-2 inches of snow, enough for triggering the albedo effect and not enough to use it as cover aganist the cold. But i must admit i'm not an expert when it comes to snow. Anyway now isn't snowing, but it may come back during night (it's 2 AM here).
    Now some picture of the plant as it was yesterday:


    This is the plant enclosed in bubble plastic, cloth and frost cloth.

    This looks like a flower to me! I can't believe it.

    Sorry for the typos!

  • Mark833
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Pancrazio. Well truth to say , I've got my mango tree second year now.It was very tought to get it , because only one person in our land is selling mangoes ( and aslo another tropics and subtropics , imported from some nursery in Malaga , Spain).
    I've chosen "Irwin" because due to info on the internet , it should be very good choice for container cultivation (staying dwarf) and somewhat early ripening. And also I've seen fruit on my own eyes at the seller. This year I'm awaiting flowers and MAYBE one piece of fruit?:-))

    Now , I've become quite a "mango freak" :-) and and I've got some seedlings of mango prepared for grafting this year. With another grower on our Czech forum I'll trade some grafting wood this year. So a should have also "Ataulfo" and "Valencia Pride".

    Sorry for bugs in my writing ..

    Hold on Pancrazio!

    Mark

  • puglvr1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Pan, that sure looks like a Bloom spike...Congrats! Thanks for the update and best of luck! We're hoping for the best scenario for you...

    Keep us updated...appreciate the well wishes.

    Mark, good luck with your new container Irwin mango. Aren't mangoes great!!

    Nancy

  • Mark833
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @puglvr1: For sure they are :-) . Only thing what I dont' like about them is , they're too often affected by spider mites (but can be my fault , maybe too dry air is helping up them).

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yahi! We got snow, but today it melted and now (midnight) we have 33F! Probably it won't be as cold as expected! The forecast for next days already says that the very cold nights of the next days will be a little hotter than expected in my city!
    So, luck is turning!

  • puglvr1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    GREAT News Pan!! I'm very excited for you...Thank goodness!!

  • mangodog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    God bless that little Glenn of your's Pan! The little Mango that could!!!!! And why it's blossoming at the coldest time of your year, only that little creature knows?
    So funny how nature works

    ....so the big CHILL weekend is coming up.....buena suerte, amigo....I'm huddled in your greenhouse with Mr. Glenn...

    Doggin'theMango

  • phucvu
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    hehe your mango is keeping this forum alive.

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ahah, yes, this is keeping this forum alive but also the forum is keeping the mango alive!
    So, we are trapped in a loop! :O

    (no news so far; the plant is sealed since my last post and since my last post temperature outisde has never risen more than 30F)

  • mangodog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    so....when will the temperature get warm enough so you can go in and look at Mr. Glenn?

    Brrrrrrrrrrr................

    MangoPerro

  • vitalucky
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pancrazio, what happened to your Glenn mango?
    Did it survive the winter?

  • Doglips
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I second the motion!

    How about a progress report?

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi guys,
    Yes, my mango managed to survive to our winter.
    Well, long story short, it took some beating from that cold front. During the rest of the winter it remained pretty much undamaged, but during those days of februrary i had to put an heater inside the structure because the temperature remained at 30F for two weeks, with a cloudy weather, and there wasn't enought heat to keep the water drums hotter than outside.
    The plant went under two different flowering flushes while it was under the cover; the first one was triggered by the temperatures in november and peaked around march; just male flowers in that ones, because temperatures were too low. Some flowers later developed a dark colour which i think it was some kind of bacterial infection, which i was able to stop just with the rising of temperatures. The second flower flush one started in march a peaked by the end of april; it was with males and females and if was followed by some actual fruit set.

    I removed the cover by the first days of may. Too bad, apparently, our may nights are too cold to keep the embrios alive (around 50F), so the all the fruits fell by the first days of june. For the next may i'll keep the cover on till june, but this will be tricky because inside the cover temperatures go skyhigh, with over 100F even in march, if the climate is hot and sunny. Well, i can't complain, the structure was made to keep high temperatures and it simply does its job. But i must get some idea to deal with spring's sunny days.
    Anyway the plant got some cold burn. The burns in the leaves went replaced during summer, but i suspect that there was a cold burn also on trunk. This is more worrying. But has started to heal nicely during sommer, so i'm curious to see what will happen next winter.
    The plant grew quite a bit during this summer, that has been very very dry and hot here (several days above 100F). I expect, if the plant survives the next winter, a copious amount of flower for the next year, and some actual fruits.

    I plan to put my cover on in a month or so.

  • houstontexas123
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    looks good.

    have you thought about a layer of mulch around the base? to help with suppressing weeds, help keep the ground from drying too much during the summer, and help keep the ground from getting too cold in the winter.

  • mangodog
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Agree with Houston, Pan, has the idea of a mulch ever crossed your mind? On those 100+ degree days, a 3-4 inch depth of it can keep he soil cooler and moisture in, the microbes and soil bacteria flourishing and avaialble to the plant. You can always pull it back in the winter if you want to, but it might also help keep that soil warmer.....

    As far as leaving the covering on till June - I agree a good idea, but you've got to find a way to open up some ventilation in the structure so the plant won't cook during those warmer days - there's no corner or two you can fold or pull back?

    Also, any dilute fertilizer at all you gave Mr. Glenn? I found this year, that it is truly helpful to more flushes of growth during the season....every couple weeks is what I did....

    The experiment continues, eh amico?

    Your buddy, Gary Dog

  • Doglips
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hats off. I have too much respect for everyone out there that there biggest problem is penguins and yeti stealing their harvest. I get two to three weeks a year of freezing weather, and most of that is at night. I would love to have a house surround by the tropics, but I am too much of a chicken to try it. I see 40F weather at night, the tropics is coming indoors.

    Well done Pan.

    btw, HD has Yeti-be-Gone on special, for your really tough infestations.

  • Pancrazio
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi guys, thank you for your kind words!

    @houstontexas123: Yes, i have tought about mulch. Actually i think that it may be useful. BUT: 1) During winter i don't want the ground to be insulated: i want it to accumulate as much heat as possible, so, the use of mulch would be limited to summer. 2) Mulch is basically rotting vegetable material. While it isn't seriously dangerous for a very healthy plant, rotting vegetable can become host of pests wich on the long run can also affect the plant. During this winter i have had a really hard time stopping the spreading of a bacterial disease from a flowering panicle to the plant, i don'teven want to think what can happen if i only had some decomposing wood inside the structure :) 3)Water isn't really an issue. This year we had the 2nd hottes summer since 1800 and the driest since last 50 years, and i managed to water it enough, so while i appreciate people wich save water, i also recognize that my mango uses really a small percentage of my water consumption (nothing compared to my lawn, wich, this year, died almost completly). 4)around the mango live 3-4 tortoises, wich appreciate grass for food and shelter. :) So i remove grass just two time a year. This tear there hasn't been any need because the lack of rain didn't let the grass to estabilish.

    @mangodog: Hi Gary!
    Yes, i think i'll simply remove some parts of the cover. If i don't open it at least a bit, the plant wil literally cook. In January, during sunny days, i had 77F inside with 50F outside, and the sun was just 20 degree above the horizon. In march i had already 100+ inside. Can you imagine the temperature at the end of may? The plant would probably have its leaf scorched.
    I used some fertilizer this year, too. Last year i simply used potassium, but this year i used some 1-2-4 in june and liquid potassium two weeks ago.
    I agree with you, it helps. At least, without it my ctirus won't do anything (flower, fruits... anything). I'm not sure how to use it on mangos, expecially on my plant in ground.
    My experiment will continue unless either it will be clear that i can't hope to eat my own mangos, or i will be able to eat them. :)
    Did you already harvested your manila? I guess you did since last time i saw them in one of your reports they were pretty filled.

    @Doglips: Oh, 2-3 weeks of freezing weater a year? You live in a beautiful beatiful place. :)
    Here frezing risk start on november and ends past the half of april. Natually, even after then, night can be pretty cold.
    We have just 3 months suitable for tropical growing. Maybe four, on good years.
    Anyway, if you ask me, the biggest problem isn't the lenght of the winter, but the fact that climate keeps steadily cold all the time during winter. The average temperature of January is 51F. And you can't hope for much more. 59F for january, here, is already exceptionally hot. And lasts two months, this way. In the meantime the climate keeps rainy, damp, without much sun. And even in the brightest days, the best you can expect is 9 hours of a low sun. Overall the climate ideal for spreading bacteria and fungine infections.
    If we could get at least an hot wave, every now and then, the plant could recover a bit, start growing again: for some plants this is the best method to avoid dying.
    Anyhow, i live here, and there's much to do about it. The funny thing is that in the very south of italy, on the better locations, i have seen people growing delonix regia in their backyards.

  • cynthreab
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think I am possibly crazier than you, Pan. I want to grow a mango in the Seattle area which is a bit colder (even in Summer) than Florence. (And how I happened to find this thread.)

    But what happened to your darling mango? I hope that it survived Winter! Please, please give a status - this is like a soap opera!

  • dragonflower7
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I guess my need to try to grow a tropical will forever override the logic of plant choice. So, my tiny mango just put out a huge leaf, I let it grow out then pruned it off. My logic is to send all the energy to the roots. I have no idea if this is the way to go but we are into our dark winter months and my grow light is still in the basement. I am feeling my way through this because I have no guidelines. The little tree was established with some permanent leaves so I got rid of the giant new leaf. Anyone have guidelines I can use for growing in the NorthEast.

  • mangodog
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    cynthrea - yes, Pancrazio's glenn mango is still doing fine. he is keeping us posted on another website, but yes, he and it are doing just fine....

    I hope you get this post!

    MDog

  • londonxbox360
    8 years ago

    any update ?

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