Seedling Mango Success in Jacksonville FL!

A while ago, I made some posts about a couple of mango seedlings I had planted here in Jacksonville FL. Well, this post is about one of those trees, read on:

The seed was planted in the spring of 2008 presumably of the "Biscochuelo" type from Santiago de Cuba. The tree grew very very well and using a variety of improvised cold protection measures, it made it without issues through
the next two winters (temps as low as 22f). Now, the real subject of this post is success!

One more thing though, the mangos are not of the "Biscochuelo" variety, but they are excellent, totally free of fiver, weigh 12 ounces on average, have a very thin peal, and are overall delicious. So, I would like to know any
opinions of what group or family it might belong to...

This is the youngest picture I have of the tree (about three months after planting (2009/07)):

This is the tree about a year later, much larger:

Here is an example of the very large leaves it can push out (my hand in the photo for comparison):

Here is the tree in full bloom (2011/04):

Mangos already grown (2011/07):

This next two are of the ripe mangos (taken right now):

Alright mango experts, what type or family of mangos does this tree belong to?

Whatever it is, they are excellent, totally fiverless and the tree appears very productive (48 mangos on a 6x7 ft tree)!! It can be done!!

Tip: You can right click the photos and display or safe to your computer for larger/higher quality image...

a new cultivar?
-Ethan

-Tom

I looks like a Bizcochuelo but does it taste like one?Bizcochuelo is my all time favorite mango. I was fortunate enough to try it in Havana and Barcelona in different occasions and they were out of this world. I asked Harry once about this variety and he never hear of it. I was surprise because of the Cuban influence in FL. Can you please describe the taste and email so we can negotiate a price for a seed of this rare and legendary mango.

JF

Jeff

I just love success stories of zone cheaters - this tree is a fantastic accomplishment. ANd yes, you should share your winter warming techniques with the forum here, so others can benefit.

What's amazing to me is that in 16 months or so from seed planting you get a tree that dwarfs your kid!

You got lots of sharing to do, my friend. This kind of success is almost unparalled....

As far as an answer to your varietal question, I'm not an expert, but the 2 that would come to mind as far as the color of the skin would be Maha Chinook or Cogshall, but I'm sure I'm totally wrong.....

Big thanks for sharing....

Gary

As was mentioned, it would now have to be grated and the analyze the resultant/consistency to see whether a new cultivar is appropriate/worthy.

Still though, anyone that wants to take a guess about the veriety?

I wish I had an idea what variety it is...I think its great that it has NO fiber and its great tasting from a seed!

When you have time...can you refresh our memories on how you protected that tree in winter? Thanks for posting!

2. "What kind of "cold protection measure" did you use?"
Take a look at the plastic pipes around the tree and the winter plastic that is folded down. I combine that with a six foot beach umbrella and then you got an improvised greenhouse. Then, I used a 1500W area heater (the kind that have a fan ($13 at Wal-Mart)) and that brought the temperature about 30 degrees above outside temperature in the enclosure. Of course, when the tree was younger I used heat lamps (the kind for reptiles), then when it was even younger I used regular light bulbs (the 60W ones) and so on. Your best friend is a reasonably good quality remote temperature sensor.
I have two fruiting guavas, a mamey sapote, a large keylime tree, another mango tree (also three years old and also fruiting), and some other stuff, all using similar hacked together protection methods. Needless to say, I am working on creating a formal structure for this winter!

3. "Maybe a new cultivar ? very attractive fruit. You should graft some to rootstock when you can."
I just planted six seeds from this tree, so we'll see what I can do and what I get from the seeds.

4. "Where did you get the seed? That is quite a vigorous grower for it's size in only 3 years!!"
I got a bunch of seed from a family member, in theory; they were "Bizcochuelo" mango seeds. The seeds were all dried and in very bad shape (the mangos had been eaten months before). With little hope, I planted all the seeds in the same pot and one germinated in the spring of 2008. From the moment it came out of the ground, the thing grew at least twice as fast as any mango tree I've ever seen. Pushing out leaves that some times were four inches across and 14 inches long! The tree you see today is the result of lots of pruning and lots of branch bending and tying down to the ground, it did not get that shape on accident. Even with the pruning and the four month winter without growth it is larger than most trees I've ever seen of that age. So yes, very vigorous...

5. "It looks like a Bizcochuelo but does it taste like one?"
Actually, superficially it might look like it, but it is definitely not "Bizcochuelo". The fruits are slightly longer, the seed is also longer, the peal is much thinner, the flesh is not as firm as "Bizcochuelo", the tree is many times more vigorous, the leaves are larger/thicker, and so on. Also, it appears to be more productive and it grows mangos in bunches ("Bizcochuelo never does that). I would place "Bizcochuelo" as a nine in a ten point scale; I would place this Jacksonville mango as a 8 in flavor/texture. However, it has many similarities in its overall smell and taste, definitely a great fruit. It seems they might be cousins of some kind.

6. "Can you please describe the taste and email so we can negotiate a price for a seed of this rare and legendary mango."
See answer above. However, I visited Cuba last year and now have two real "Bizcochuelo" trees growing. One is the traditional/typical fruit, the other is a much larger fruit type from a smaller and very special tree from the town I grew up. So far, they are doing very well, so in a couple of years there should be fruit. I ate these mangos myself, so there is no possibility that the seeds came from the wrong mango.

7. "Mostro - how many shoots came out of the seed when it germinated ?"
Only one, I know, monembrionic, maybe, the seeds were in really bad shape, see above. The shoot was kind of yellow at first, but then it exploded and grew extremely fast.

Thank everyone for the wonderful comments, I know how it is to lose a tree in a freeze, so I figure I had to share some good news with everyone! I am curious to see the opinions from Harry and other mango lovers...

Harry

Not a Bizcochuelo, darn it! it's still a great looking tree....well taken care of and thriving. Seedling seem to do better in our marginal climate also. I re-read your post and look at the pics and notice that your mangos might be larger than the Bizcochuelos I had. I don't know the growth habits of the Bizcochuelo tree because I've never seen one but if you ever get a hold of some bizcochuelo seeds keep me in mind. Is that a plastic sheeting you are using for protection? I love to see pics of your other mango tree and your Mamey Sapote.

JF

so maybe its a seedling from that variety? who knows, the good thing is its a good tasting attractive and productive one.

2. "If you ever get a hold of some bizcochuelo seeds keep me in mind."
For sure. Remember, I have two real "Bizcochuelo" trees growing right now, so in a couple of years I'll probably have plenty of seed.

3. "I don't know the growth habits of the Bizcochuelo tree because I've never seen one."
It is a good looking, medium to small mango tree, with a rather symmetrical canopy. Definitely not super vigorous. The two "Bizcochuelo" seedlings I now have grow much much more slowly than my fruiting tree.

4. "Is that a plastic sheeting you are using for protection?"
Yes, during the winter I hammer the pipes into the ground and attach the plastic sheeting to them, forming a wall around the tree, then, I throw something over the top and attach to the sides. I use a 1500W area heater as heat source. As I said before though, a remote thermometer is the key to success with this type of thing.

5. tropicdude: Yeah, I've noticed that too, but the tree seems too productive, but again, you never know, it is a seedling... Harry is right though, there is no real way to tell, so for now, I'll just enjoy them while they last!

Harry

Pug:
My heaters only have two settings, low is 1000W and high is 1500W. I use it on iether setting, depending on the size of the tree and the minimum expected temperature. Again, a wireless thermometer will give you all the information you need to use the heater successfully. You crank on your heater and then just see how many degrees above outside temperature the enclosed area goes. If lowest expected temp for the night, plus the temp increase from the heater, is well above freezing (maybe ten degrees above freezing), you are good to go.

Mostro

Bizcochuelo is hands down the best mango I've ever had. It's very meaty, firm, sweet, super intense - the way a mango should taste. I have eaten a lot of Mexican mangos from both coast and also Central American mangos and I have to say Bizcochuelo rivals the best. I may be a little bias because my parents are Cuban, not from Caney Santiago the birth place of the Bizcochuelo but from Morom Camaguey, hopefully Richard Campbell can bring this celebrated mango to the states.

JF

This is the exact description of my tree:

"In this group the tree is erect, with the crown usually oval, never broadly spreading, and densely umbrageous. The foliage is abundant, deep green in color,
the leaves medium sized to rather large, with primary transverse veins more numerous than in other groups, commonly 26 to 30 pairs, quite conspicuous.
The odor of the crushed leaves is distinctive. The panicle is very large, loose, slender, 12 to 20 inches in length, and laterals pale green to dull magenta-pink,
very finely pubescent. The staminodes are poorly developed, rarely capitate or fertile. The
varieties
of this group usually bloom profusely; those from Indo-China are productive, while the Philippine seedlings in Florida sometimes bear excellent crops and
in other
seasons
drop all their flowers. Three to five fruits, or even more, may develop on one panicle."

This is definitely the description of the fruit from my tree (from Miami 1902):
"Form oblong to oblong-ovate, compressed laterally; size below medium to medium, weight 8 to 10 ounces, length 3 3/4 to 4 1/2 inches,
breadth 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 inches; base rounded, the stem inserted squarely or slightly to one side without
depression
; apex pointed, the nak a small point 1/2 inch above the longitudinal apex; surface smooth, yellow-green to deep yellow in color, dots almost wanting; skin
very thin and tender; flesh deep yellow in color, very juicy, free from fiber, and of mild, subacid, slightly aromatic flavor;
quality
good; seed elliptic-oblong, thick, with short fiber on ventral edge. Season in Florida late June to early August."

I would just change it slitely and say that my mangos smell very good and I would consider them to be very good to excellent. Also, my mangos weigh 12 ounces on average, in fact, most of them weigh right at 12 ounces. The tree's description is right on the money. Most of my mangos were in bunches of three and I even had two bunches with five mangos! I just went outside and counted the number of transverse veins and there are around 27 per leaf.

June

JF

Congratulations on your good looking tree and fruit. You have given me hope and ideas, as I live due East of you and have young mango trees in containers that want to go in the ground.

yd

mangomutt

Well, after it fruited last year, the tree did not produce any new growth until this spring. I guess it had used its carbohydrate reserves and needed some time to recover. Also, it only had two flower bunches and only produced six mangos (four in one bunch and two in the other).
The six mangos from this year were much larger than the 48 from last year. They were around 20 ounces instead of last year's average of twelve ounces. I got a bunch of rain and the mangos were also not anywhere as good as the previous year's crop. They were much less firm, almost to the point of watery in some spots.
Last year, I planted six seeds from the tree. Of the six, four sprouted and all appeared to be polyembrionic with one sprout coming out anywhere from two weeks to a month before the other ones. This year I did not get a chance to plant any seeds.
I gave one of the seedlings away and used the other three as rootstock for other mangos. I did not realize that a couple of people were interested in seedlings and/or wood from the tree.
The tree is currently doing very well, I am hoping for a good flowering and fruit set next spring. I've also improved my cold protection setup, so its survival is much more likely than previous years.
It is important to mention that I don't know if this tree is any more cold hardy than other mango varieties, so please don't get your hopes up about some kind of hardy mango. I've always protected it during freezes, so I don't know how hardy it is. What I do know is that it grew and fruited very quickly from seed, that it appears reasonably anthracnose resistant, and it flowers in mid to late March which is important for our area. The fruits were very good last year, but not as good this year and same thing for the productivity, so more time is needed to have a truly educated opinion. I might rate the overall fruit taste at a 7/10, but they are very nice looking...
I don't protect it unless the temperature is forecasted to drop below 32 and the lowest temperature it was ever exposed to without protection was 30 degrees and suffered no apparent damage.

I would love to share seeds or wood from my tree with anyone that wants to investigate it, so just let me know if you are still interested. Of course, the seeds have to wait until next year!