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hmhausman

Zill's experimental mangoes

hmhausman
12 years ago

I was fortunate to receive some of Zill's latest mango experiments. Here are the results of the tasting.

From August 11, 2011

The J-26, the smallest of this group, was also the most anthracnose marred. The entire top of the fruit had deep anthracnose wounds. The flesh had a peach-like texture and also a peachy sort of flavor. It looked like this:

From August 11, 2011

The Zillate was the next in size. It was nicely colored and longer rather than wider as compared to the other mangoes. It looked like this.

From August 11, 2011

The flesh was fiberless and somewhat melting in texture. The flavor was quite good but not unique....a good standard mango flavor.

The next largest mango was C-17.....which is a supposed brother (or sister) to the Coconut Cream. The flesh was more yellow than the others. I think the mango had been dropped because there was a large soft spot on the mango's bottom. What was not mashed at the bottom was excellently flavored....sort of a creamy citrussy taste but I did not get any coconut flavors in it. It looked like this:

From August 11, 2011

The largest mango and the one with the most vividly colored exterior was 8o. It looked like this:

From August 11, 2011

This was a particularly meaty mango with smooth, fiberless flesh and a really nice citrussy flavor with tropical overtones.

In summary, my group of mango tasters (Jamaican, Colombian, Haitian and a couple of gringos) had mixed reviews on which was best. The Jamaican hated the C-17 but everyone else thought it was at the top, either one or two on the table. The Jamaican thought the Zillate was the best while everyone else thought that it was fourth out of four. Overall, I would give all of these mangoes good solid ratings. I think that the anthracnose that developed on the J-26, in conjunction with its size and texture would cause me to hesitate growing it. As far as the rest, I would be willing to grow them all. I am sure that any of these would be well received by the mnango eating world.

Harry

Comments (31)

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Guys - I have and have tasted all of the above plus many others. I will post pics of mine tonight (if I can figure out how to post pics). I did not bother with the J-26 as it was described by Zills as "just like a Van Dyke". That description was enough for me to take a pass on it. I have another "number" that Harry didn't show but unfortunately it is not written on the mangoes I have. When I post the pics, you will see by the color that it is very different. My "80" is very much bigger than all of the others.

    I have had a bunch of their Pina Coladas this year. They seem to be very variable. They can range from super sweet to sweet tart. The texture is a drawback as they are very soft, much like the Gary. I have also had the Harvest Moon. Not bad, was actually quite odd. Taste was that or peach/citrus that started tart and finished sweet. They also seem to be variable taste-wise.

    They also have a "sweet tart", Zills is touting it but I would take a pass on it. Another J-14, which they are calling Candy, should be eaten with caution. Some are tremendous and a lot are chalky/pasty and only worthy of the trash.

    They also did a cross between NDM and Valencia Pride. Sometimes you need to leave well enough alone. Average at best. Though I am not a fan of Val. Pride, I love NDM...this cross loses the best of the NDM flavor while imparted with the Val's flavor profile.

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    :-) I guess a lot of it depends on personal taste.

    As for the pina colada, I agree that the fruit are highly variable in flavor and in size. The mango is also unattractive and has a big thick seed. However, I thought it was outrageously delicious! Rated on flavor alone, I'd say that it tops the lemon zest. And, yah it does appear to be a cross with the Gary. To get the full "pina colada" flavor you must let it sit and get mushy (just like the gary).

    The harvest moon texture could certainly be interpreted as 'chalky'. However, that's precisely what my wife and I loved about it - we call it 'creamy' :-). It was quite astounding in both flavor and texture to these taste buds.

    The juliette is another creamy mango, and is an obvious cross with the gary. It's quite good, but in retrospect I may have eaten them a tad underripe.

    Quite a few of the new Zill mangoes have that 'creamy' texture to it. I actually prefer that to the typical watery florida mango. But, it's totally a matter of personal taste.

    Jeff

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ohh - how was the J-14? I don't think I've had that one. Was it just too sweet?

    Do you happen to remember the number of the 'Sweet tart'?

    Do you remember the number on the pina colada?? If memory serves it's a 40-14.

    The number thing is hard to keep track of :-).

    Jeff

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    here are my C-17, 80 and 25-29. The 80 is by far the biggest, weighing in at 2 lbs (I put a dollar bill next to it to gauge the size

    here is the 25-29 cut...texture was very creamy. Sweetness level, moderate. Flavor, A mild orange with hints of tropical nuances. Had some flavor similarities to a Duncan. Overall, a very good mango with little complaints. If any, flavor was there but not super intense and sweetness was there but again, not super sweet. Did have a slight resinous taste near the skin. Odd thing, had very little to no aroma before it was cut.

    and last but not least, some yummy Canistel...smoothies anyone :)

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    J-14 at its best was very sweet and exceptional. Unfortunately those specimens seemed to be the minority. Either they are EXTREMELY variable or Zills picked a lot of them too early as they were tart, chalky and acidic and never attained any real color too them as they ripened on the counter.

    Pina Colada - they were actually not numbered but named. The best I found actually turned a beautiful bright yellow/orange color. These were very sweet, juicy and did have a taste very reminiscent to an actual pina colada. The ones that stayed more green with blotchy yellow mottling were the one I would say were not to my liking, staying more on the tart side without that bursting flavor and sweetness.

    Don't remember the sweet tart number, will see if I can find out.

    I have been "living" on Zills experimentals since June and have tasted numerous numbered "trys". They range from amazing to not worth the effort to try a second taste. Did much the same last summer. I tried to keep track at one point but as you said, it gets too confusing rarely the same available from week to week.

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the pic's. Those are some nice looking mangoes.

    Jeff

  • tropicalgrower89
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great review Harry!

    Jeff, a mango tasting better than Lemon Zest? It's hard to believe that. lol The lemon zest had a nice virgin pina colada taste to it.

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All around, the LZ is a better mango - more attractive, smaller seed, etc. But in terms of flavor, I might pick PC :-). I really, really liked the intense sweet / tart of the pina colada.

    Jeff

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jeff - the ones with the vivid yellow/orange color to the skin had less of the tartness and more of the tropical coconut flavor discernible.

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I guess I'm an oddball but I actually loved the PC mangoes with the blotchy green skin. Very ugly, but incredibly delicious !

    Jeff

  • hmhausman
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The last three Zill mangoes I received were sampled today. These were much smaller than the previous, ranging in size from about 8-10 ozs. They were as follows:

    From August 12, 2011

    The fruit on the top left was marked as 40-33 while the one to the top right was unmarked upon receipt. I was advised that it might also be a 40-33...which it clearly was not. So there is one mango that is not ID'ed....if Jeff or Rob knows what it might be, I'd be appreciative of finding that out.

    The cut mangoes layout as follows:

    From August 12, 2011

    Starting on the left was Hawaiian Super Dwarf. It was nicely flavored but was very, very fibrous. After being cut away from the skin on the tasting plate it had the appearance of someone already having chewed it and spit it out on the plate in a lump. Very, very unappetizing.

    In the center was the unmarked mango which had yellow flesh. It had excellent flavor and was somewhat reminiscnet of Alanpur Banehshan. The flavor is intense with that very strong resinous mango twang.

    The fruit on the right was the 40-33. This was even better flavored and was clearly the winner of today's tasting. The taste, to me, reminded me of Dot. Jeff, you said your thought Pina Colada was 40-14. I don't think that that 40-33 tasted like Pina Colada so I am pretty sure that these are different fruits. 40-33 was pretty clean on the exterior also.

    Harry

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know which one the 40-33 is. I'll call next week to find out. Those sure look good though.

    Jeff

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The unmarked one is the 25-29, the color is the give away along with the resinous taste (And since you mentioned it, when I tasted mine it did have hints Indian characteristics...I have another at the house which I will try tonight). 40-33 is definitely not pina colada. PC is a smaller mango, much like the size and shape of the Gary.

    Harry - do you eat your chilled/cold or at room temp ? I know that makes a huge difference on the flasvor profile and sweetness.

  • hmhausman
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rob:
    I always prefer to eat my mangoes at room temperature if at all possible. Sometimes, in order to preserve a mango for a tasting, I'll refrigerate. Then, it should be eaten before it comes back to room temperature. Some mangoes do lose something in the refrigeration process and are much better at room temperature. There are others that stand up to refrigeration and are still every bit as good when cold. And thanks for ID'ing the 25-29.

    Jeff:
    Thanks in advance for finding out about the 40-33.

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    By the way, I had the Dwarf Hawaiian, not from Zills, and thought the same. Taste wasn't bad but when I see that much fiber its hard to like t. I also found that it did not ripen/soften equally. On the same fruit, some parts were soft/mushy while others were not ripened enough. I had three of them and they were all this way.

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here are results and pics from last night's tasting:

    C-17, well, now this is odd compared with Harry's description, I would describe this a "chalky lemon". This tasted like moderately sweetened lemonade taste-wise but was unappetizingly chalky.

    Next was the J-14, which was being called Candy"/ Outside color was that of one that never achieved the full color it should have (I have seen them with orange/red hue/blush to them with little to no green). Taste was not bad. Moderately sweet with no obtrusive tartness. Flavor, no comparisons as nothing struck me as discernable...I would not rush out to try again (especially whan I say I have tried probably five to ten J-14s).


    Last was my second 25-29. Now this was really good. The mango was very sweet and creamy. Taste, as my other and as Harry said, was very much the characteristic of an Indian mango (even more so than the one I tasted the other night), Malika maybe ? It even had a hint of orange cream flavor to it and less of that resinous nuance. So far, this is two for two and I have one left that is not ready to eat.

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I thought about it and may take back the reference to Malika. As these were picked with some color on the skin and Malikas are usually picked at a certain stage of green, that along with NO aroma, the thought of Malika parentage may be incorrect. Now it still had that orange cream I associate with Malikas but which are also evident, in varying degrees, in other Indian mangoes so I still hold pat that there is something of Indian parentage here.

  • squam256
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aw man. I move to across the state and am late to the party on this cool thread.

  • red_sea_me
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great updates gents, thanks for putting yourself through such rigorous testing for us.

    must be rough to 'live' off of experimental mangoes,
    -Ethan

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Any idea what the B-14 is? It looks to be a cross between Gary and something else. Stinkin delicious.

    Jeff

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    B-14 ? I haven't seen that one.

  • lycheeluva
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    wow you floridians sure know to p#ss a new yorker off. think i will post some pictures of the shi##y tommy atkins mangoes they sell up here in NY.

    MY MOUTH IS LITERALLY DROOLING.
    Who needs mangoes with names like lemon velvet and midnight in caracas when you get to eat shi##y tasteless meally empire apples in 20f in NY in novemeber. yay lucky me.
    what the bloody f

    i jest of course- keep the pics coming

  • squam256
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lol lycheeluva

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here some more:

    J-26 - I knew I should not have gone for it but I had to. Zills described it as "like a Van Dyke"...pretty spot on but a little more tart than a Van Dyke (as most of Zills' late season fruit have been.


    next was "80" (not sure what happened to the picture I took of the uncut fruit but here it is cut). creamy, taste of citrus, and again, overly tart.

    next was one that I have no ID for, I believe it was a 40-33. This creamy mango had good flavors or peach and citrus, moderately sweet but again more tart than I believ it should be.


    and last, but of course, this is not least. Actually, saving the best for last. Also, this was NOT from Zills...it was the last Maha Chanook of the season. This again, one of my top mangoes, was amazing but not as great as the ones from the heart of the harvest. This was very sweet, creamy and juicy, with tropical flavors found in Thai varieties.


    All in all, Zills' mangoes I have had in August have had an issue with excessive tartness. I know some feel it is due to their lack of fertilization but I don't think I buy that as the mangoes from June and July were not fertilized either and those, for the most part, were not like this. Any thought on this anyone, Sheehan, Harry, Jeff ?

  • tropicalgrower89
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Maybe the tart flavor is due to the fruits being picked too early off the tree? Not sure.

  • tropicalgrower89
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I forgot to mention that I've had a haden or two that had a bit of tartness, while the rest were very sweet. Some had a weird honey-like taste, while some had the sweet mangoey flavor. Basically, it could just be the mango itself that was picked.

  • zands
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    bsbullie---
    Maybe a lot of people like tart mangoes or could grow to like them. Under-ripe supermarket mangoes veer towards tartness and acidity yet people buy them, eat them, cook with them making mango salsas, mango salads, mango ice cream and more. There might be an existing fan base of people accustomed to tart mangoes this way. They don't know any better because they never had a backyard mango picked at its peak of perfection. Or a Florida mango picked at the right time for it to ripen fully on the kitchen counter.

    Northern fruits ship better than southern fruits and mangoes. I can get some ripe delicious Washington State cherries and NY State apples much easier than someone in Washington DC can get a ripe Florida mango. Just saying that with so many acidy mangoes in supermarkets.....maybe people are getting used to tart mangoes. Ice cream made tart mangoes? Pies made from tart mangoes? I see possibilities.

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    bsbullie - I've noticed the same thing this year: my keitts that I harvested in the past couple of weeks have been much more tart than usual. It could have something to do with the excessive rain. Potassium should sweeten them up.

    Jeff

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Zands and others - you would have to know Zills to understand. They do not develop and produce mangoes based on what people are used to. They do this experimenting for their benefit to expand the types and production of mangoes (their goal is to produce a cultivar that would be well accepted in the industry, not develop based on the imported mangoes perople buy from the grocery store). These mangoes are all experimental so direct ability ability to control the outcome is limited. They do have some control in that they limit the amount of supplimental watering and mainly use potassium and copper in they supplemental applications. I do think they may be picking SOME a little too early but, as Jeff said, it may also be the screwed up weather we have had this mango season: short cold winter snap, early heat wave, excessive drought and then loads of rain. As most in South Florida know, this was not the normal type of mango season here. Varieties ripened earlier than normal in most cases and production seemed to be smaller with quality not as high as should be.

    Jeff - I also tasted some of theri Kents and Keitts, they were also not as sweet as should be and somewhat tart.

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    bsbullie, do you happen to remember the characteristics of the "sweet tart" mango? How did it compare to the lemon zest? I lived on wonka sweetart candy for most of my youth :-).

    Jeff

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