Is number 11 considered a dwarf rootstock? I think that's just the common rootstock. I'm actually not sure if there is any rootstock that will impart dwarf characteristics to the tree, but the NDM #4 does have a dwarfed growth habit. My neighbor's tree is only 7 or so feet tall despite being like 5+ years old.

Jeff

It was done by Gary and on the pot, and confirmed, says NDM #4 on #11 RS(D).

Jeff - forgot to ask, about how wide is you neighbor's ? Do you know if he has let it grow naturally or pugged/pruned it to branch laterally ?

Jeff,
I think this #11 is one of Zill's new rootstocks. It's not the old turpentine #11. They have a few different dwarfing rootstocks available now for mangos from Zills. Not sure how well they work in the long run.

Tree looks extremely healthy...Sheehan, did you see them ? Hey, wait, what are you doing posting ???

OK - number 11 is just one of the two rootstocks commonly used here in FL:
Rootstocks used include 'Turpentine' and 'Number 11'. These rootstocks are tolerant of high pH, and seedlings are vigorous and relatively uniform.But regardless of the rootstock, NDM #4 is a smallish mango tree.

There have been some experiments using double grafted mango trees in an attempt to keep them smaller (using Julie as an interstock). There has also been some research into producing clonal rootstocks for dwarfing (eg, by marcotting), but I don't think that's gone very far. There is some minor variation in terms of precocity, growth habit, etc, based on rootstock, but it doesn't appear to be all that dramatic.

I know Zill's was experimenting with some different rootstocks for the Julie, but it sounds like that's just good old Number 11. They had a problem with the regular nam doc mai trees suddenly dying and were likely just making sure that the number 4 didn't exhibit the same issue on the common Number 11 rootstock.

Jeff

Ohh - hey Sheehan. You sure? They just started grafting the NDM #4 3 or 4 years ago; it might be strange to start off propagating those on a new rootstock.

My neighbor's tree is barely 6 feet wide. It's tiny but has a trunk much thicker than a soda can. My neighbors wanted to tear it out because they had planted it expecting it to be a shade tree.

Jeff

I would be curious to know if this root stock is any different that the "common" #11...if anyone out there is buds with Gary and want to inquire for me I would greatly appreciate it.

I'll call over there and find out tomorrow. A NDM4 on a dwarf stock would be a super dwarf :-).

Jeff

Jeff,
It may be the same #11 but I was under the impression that it wasn't the other #11. It would be interesting to find out. Let us know what they say. I really hope it's not the same #11 cause that would just suck and the tree wouldn't be worth the extra money they are charging.

Ohh, OK. This is news to me. The only mango trees that I was aware of that were sold at a higher price were those that were to be patented (eg, Coco Cream). I knew they were doing rootstock trials with the Julie, but didn't know they were planning on pushing them at higher prices. Very interesting.

Jeff

Yep - this sounds like it's the real deal. You got one of Gary's experimental creations :-). You need to snap some photos of this baby.

Jeff

Jeff - you've got mail

Jeff, if your neighbor wants a shade tree, maybe valencia pride would be a better choice. I think Lemon Zest would also be a big tree due to it's tall skinny stature.

Alexi

:-) Exactly. My neighbor happened to buy that tree at Home Depot, not realizing what it was. They eventually planted a kent and a valencia pride as shade trees.

Jeff

Cool. I forgot to mention that I noticed two cleft graft marks on my NDM#4. Unless the bottom mark is just where the trunk meets the taproot. Maybe I have the super dwarf ndm #4.
:-)

You never know. Gary is ever the experimenter. I wouldn't put it past him.

Jeff

ok, tree planted today, here are the pics:

The one picture has a full size shovel next to it so you can see the height. Oh, and to correct my initial post, it was in a 25 gal, not a 35. I think it also a little confused, it actually flowering on one branch.

not for long, have some planting to do...I have my Sweetheart (I know what you said, but hey, I'll give it a go with a watchful eye over it) and Malika poised to go in and my Maha as soon as it gets a little more size to it. It also has some friends in pots behind me (taking the picture) that you can't see. Oh, it has a couple of Pandanus to become friends with.

OK, yah that's definitely a dwarf stock. The typical NDM4 on turpentine exhibits elephant's foot where the turpentine rootstock gets much thicker than the NDM4 scion. Julie has the same problem. Your's looks perfectly mated. The NDM4 might be even a smidgen thicker than the stock. While it won't likely keep the tree any smaller, it will likely be healthier and bushier.

The off-season flowering seems to be common for the NDM4. It's actually considered a off-season bloomer in its native land. In fact, the real name for that tree is "Nam Dok Mai twai" where the twai means early (or something similar). It's an amazing tree. The major drawback seems to be splitting.

In an earlier thread I mentioned that the way to tell the NDM4 from the "regular" NDM was to look at the leaves. Well, I've since found yet another NDM cultivar which is obviously not NDM4 but has wide leaves just like the NDM4. Dr Campbell once mentioned that the "regular" NDM is possibly a number 11 (or possibly a #12 - can't remeber). There must be a bunch of NDM clones out there.

At any rate, that's a nice specimen and a one of a kind tree.

Jeff

Congrats on the new NDM#4 mango tree! It looks very healthy.

Great tree, love the experimental aspect of it too. It will be fun to see what happens.

good luck,
-Ethan