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Maha Chanook, Dot, and Cushman from Excalibur

guajiro
12 years ago

Took a trip yesterday to visit Richard and Lynda at Excalibur and picked up three of Harry's MVP's. They only have 2 Cushmans left if anyone's interested. Also, I pruned my Maha after planting so I have 7 scions in the refrigerator if anyone would like them.

From left to right. Dot, Cushman, Maha Chanook.

Comments (65)

  • squam256
    12 years ago

    lol Harry.

    I'll chime in on the Maha vs Dot discussion. I have to say I ever so slightly favor the flavor of Dot. There's something about the richness and depth of the flavor that is almost unmatched. But I love both of them.

    Guajiro, great choices on the trees.

  • guajiro
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    You guys are hilarious! LOL
    Let's just say that if it weren't for this forum my only source of mango knowledge would have been the Pine Island Mango Viewer... and I would've planted Glenn mango trees all over my yard ;)
    Marinfla, I ended up grafting the Maha scions onto my neighbor's Atkins tree (pictured above in the background).
    I will keep you guys updated if they take.

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    Holy ****...how high up did you climb for the grafts ? Would have been better off if they just removed the TA and planted something worthy and you grafting the scions on to seedling rootstock.

    Oh, Harry, I will add I don't think he is much of a Durian fan either (though I may be incorrect). I also know his taste is a little skewed on a certain jackfruit...the Red Morning has NO resemblance of a sulfur taste whatsoever. As a matter of fact, it is an outstanding Jack which I would rank right up and challenge the Mai 1 and Bangkok. For those who question me, I currently have two fresh ziplocks of it in my fridge for which I can prove.

  • murahilin
    12 years ago

    I have to agree with Jeff and my current favorite mango is the LZ.

    Harry,
    Jakarta is an awesome mango. I think your Jakarta tree is just blighted. Maybe next year I will remember to bring you a deliciously resinous Jakarta mango. Another wonderful resinous mango is the Honc Cambodiana. It's one of my favorites. So much more flavor than the Maha.

    Jeff has some really good barbados cherries and mombins. He has a variety of mombin that is almost as big as the dwarf june plums. Really good flavor too. I think LycheeLuva got to try it also when he was down earlier this year.

    BSBullie,
    Definitely not a durian fan. What I've said many times about the Red Morning jackfruit is that since the majority of Richard's red mornings were seedlings the flavors were very variable and were hit or miss. I have probably had the fruit from 10 or so different "red mornings" and the flavors were all different. One in particular had a horrible sulfur taste. That is the reason I always tell people to steer clear of it. There are much better consistent grafted varieties of jackfruit than to take such a big chance with a seedling red morning.

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago

    I've only had two jakarta mangoes and they were both from Zill's, but they were pretty darn good. I'm not quite sure why Pine Island gives it the lowly 3 star rank. I also had a Brahm Kai Meu from fairchild farms that I thought was outstanding (in contrast to PI's 3 star rank). It probably depends on growing conditions?

    Jeff

  • squam256
    12 years ago

    That's because Eric Tietig, VP of Pine island hates super flavorful, rich mangoes (especially Dot, hates it) and loves mangoes that taste like Glenn. No joke, he told me his favorite mango is Glenn. Probably why they've hyped up the Young mango so much.

  • marinfla
    12 years ago

    Hi Guajiro, I just got your email today. Bummer. How tall is that Tommy Atkins tree??? Where did you graft the scions? Wow. If they do take, what do you do next being that the root stock tree is so large?

    Anyone who has tasted the Lemon Zest... how is it different from the parent PPK?

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago

    In my limited experience - I thought the LZ was very distinct from the PPK - totally different flavor. The LZ tastes just like orange sherbet ice cream. It's creamier, sweeter, richer, and has an interesting orangy aroma.

    Jeff

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    There is no comparison between LZ and PPK. LZ has a creamy, orange sherbet taste, no lemon at all (yeah, I know...PPK --> Lemon Meringue and naming it LZ you would expect a lemon flavor, but no lemon there).

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago

    OK, Squam that would make sense, especially if you look at how they rated the Dot mango. Not only do they give it a 4-star ranking, but they include the text "Glenn remains a better choice". Funny :-)

    Jeff

  • mango_kush
    12 years ago

    I would say PI has those ratings exactly backwards.

    some years Glenn is an outstanding mango, I remember a few years ago the nubbins, (small unpollinated fruit) from a Glenn tree were seedless and probably the best fruit of season dare I say. then many years they are watered down,

    I think DOT is definitely a more consistent producer of full flavored mangos, they also have a SE Asian sour note Glenn is missing

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    I've added a Mallika and Lancetilla tree to my yard based on PINs mango viewer specie descriptions (together with Fairchilds assessment). Kind of hard not to heed the feedback from ppl who have actually tasted these different mangoes on a consistent basis, so my recent additions were lucky there.

    This forum is a GREAT resource, so thanks to you seasoned you guys n gals for sharing your experiences.

    I've have NDM and Julie, so from my experience, PINs production descriptions were spot on. Where I am in SoFla (Pembroke Pines), my Julie grows great n dwarf (full sun, lots of space for wind convection) so I added another.

    Now with this thread, Dot and Maha has me intrigued. I think I've found my new crack.

  • mango_kush
    12 years ago

    Hehe, I bought a small dooryard in Hollywood three years ago, i now have 13 mango trees surrounding my house, lol.

    I would add Edward, cushman, lemon zest, and Pickering to your list of mango candidates for your yard

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    I would throw in Coconut Cream and Duncan. PPK is not too bad either.

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    Dot or Pickering? I want high production and compact/fairly compact growth. According to PIN, they seemed pretty even (I'll take my chances with disease). Who wins on sweetness, flavor, and fruit size?

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    First, I would stop reading PIN's viewer as gospel. I would sure not base my decisions on what to buy by it. We can tell you all day long what we think but you are the one who hast to like it. If I told you I like one better, would that mean you would also like that one better ? Maybe, maybe not. The only way to know that is try the varieties first.

    No that I got that off my chest, since you asked, Dot and Pickering are very difficult to compare. They are both very good varieties. They are both relatively early season mangoes (June/July). Both about the same size with virtually no fiber. Both are very sweet. What makes Pickering stand out, to me, is its definite coconut flavor. While some like that in a mango, some don't. Pickering is a naturally very compact, bushy tree. It is great if you have limited space. Dot is also a smaller sized tree, Pickering is more compact. From what I have seen, Dot has a greater susceptibility to disease. For what its worth, Dot's origin is purported to be a seedling of a Zill mango. So, to answer your question, while Dot is very good and I wouldn't turn the fruit down, my choice would be Pickering.

    Rob

  • squam256
    12 years ago

    I would have to agree with Pickering over Dot if you are looking for a small compact grower with good production.

    If you can hold off until next season though you should sample some of the fruits from both to help make your decision. In terms of flavor I'd favor Dot over ALMOST anything, Pickering included, but I still think Pickering is a very good flavored mango. I have 4 of them and may yet add more.

  • murahilin
    12 years ago

    TntRobbie,
    Forget all those other varieties and get a Lemon Zest or wait for the Orange Sherbet to be released. There are also a quite few other really good ones that will be released in the near future. The Coconut Cream is also quite good. Not sure if any of them are compact though. You could see if any of them will be grafted onto Zill's new dwarf rootstocks.

  • hmhausman
    12 years ago

    My two cents....I agree with pretty much everything that has been said by squam and bsbullie. However, if anyone is giving you the impression that Dot and Pickering are anywhere within the same ball park as far as size of tree...you have been severely misled. Pickering is a true dwarf. As far as I can see growing Dot for over 15 years, it is a very normal, average growing mango tree. In other words, it can grow quite large.

    Harry

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago

    Yah, pickering does seem to be very small. There is one at the fruit and spice park that must be at least 10 or 11 years old and it's pretty darn small. It also seems to be super precocious and highly disease resistant. Funnily, both the dot and the pickering were selected by the zill family :-).

    And as far as mango flavor goes: the Lemon Zest is king :-). I went from a skeptic to a believer with one handful of about a dozen lemon zest mangoes that my wife brought back from Zill's one summer morning. It was a eureka moment .. reminiscent of the monster candy store shopping sprees that followed after getting my paper route money :-).

    Jeff

  • guajiro
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Pickering mango tree from the Fruit and Spice park.


    Dot mango tree from the Fruit and Spice park.

    Dot mangoes from the 2011 Fairchild Mango Festival.

  • hmhausman
    12 years ago

    Thank you, Guajiro....your pictures clearly demonstrate what I was trying to express.

    Harry

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    The pics certainly do put things in perspective. Thanks guajiro.

    Thank you all for the recommendations and the aLternativeZ. I didnt mean to classify Dot as a dwarf or the like. guajiro's pics certainly expands on that point. I'm a bit impatient, so your recommendations will have more weight.
    Production is definetly what I'm after of very flavorfull, sweet, mangoes with annual tipiing/pruning if the variety needs it for a compact size.
    In the mean time, I'll be researching and evaluating (outside of P.I.N. mvv ;).

  • guajiro
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    If you have the extra room I would go with the Dot since the season is almost twice as long.
    I forgot to include the Pickering mango picture from the Fairchild mango festival.

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    guajiro - why would you think the season would be twice as long? Also, if you have the extra room, I would go with something altogether different. Dot is not the end all to be all.

    Also, those are a poor representative, looks wise, of Pickering fruit.

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    Sheehan - from what I see on my trees, LZ seems like it wants to be a more vigorous grower. CC may be a little more compact but nowhere near the compactness of a Pickering or my NDM on the experimental dwarf rootstock. I will be able to tell more by next season on the CC. As for the OS, I am awaiting the availability and true scoop behind it.

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    I appreciate the pics guajiro.

    Any cons for non dwarf growers like Dot and LZ being managed as a bush size (max 8x8ft) utilizing, say, Fairchilds Garden annual tipping and pruning practices? I guess the difference versus a dwarf would be more volume in the amount trimmed off. Right?

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    TnT - The book is still out on the LZ as it has not been in the market place for that long. From what I can see on mine, it wants to be a vigorous grower. It will require training and aggressive pruning at an early age and probably throughout its life but at this point I may hold a skepticism with the ability to keep it at 8'x8' while still producing anywhere near a worthwhile harvest. I could be wrong, only time will tell. I will say from the taste and quality of the fruit, it is worth a shot and my recommendation is to what you can to keep it as compact as possible.

    While I don't have direct experience with growing Dot, from what I can see it may have the same issues. It does seem somewhat vigorous but nowhere near so as a variety such as Valencia Pride. My opinion is go with a Mahachanok over Dot (and depending on your space, needs and wants, it is as every bit as good if not better than LZ) as it is not as vigorous and seems to be able to kept more compact while providing numerous fruit per harvest.

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    I've harassed-er...contacted :) Jeff about the LZ and MC. No MC, but I'd love to get one since some says is beats NDM (which I already think is a excellent mango). I think I'm going to transplant my 3gal slower growers to the inner of my yard, and the normal/vigors on the outside- still size controlling/training with annual tipping/pruning. So it's MC, LZ and Pickering (love the look, size and production of this tree). That's it.

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    So what is Excalibur's process? Can I just show up?
    I've emailed them three times with the first email sent Oct 2nd. No response. I've called twice and left a message with contact number and variety stock inquiry both times. Nothing. It would be a looong drive to come back empty handed :D .

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    TnT - just sent you an email.

    Rob

  • guajiro
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    TnT both times I've driven up to Excalibur I've called (561-969-6988)and they were really nice and answered all of my questions about varieties and availability.
    They are the best stocked nursery I've been to. They even provide trees for the Fruit and Spice Park.
    Good luck!

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    Thats the number I called this morning and left a message. Mabye they'll get back to me tomorrow. Thanks for the help bsbullie and guajiro.

  • mangomandan
    12 years ago

    TnTRobbie: Don't force yourself to choose between two wonderful mangos. It's time to buy the property next door, cut down whatever trees they foolishly planted, and plant LOTS of wonderful mango trees. In other words, for the love of all that's good in the world, don't deny yourself a Dot.....

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    I have to quit this forum :D . Drove up to Excalibur and got my 3gal MC. It's about 5' 5" off the ground. The top leaves are large and bea-U-tifully shaped with a scion thats is loading to burst. I'm going to pug it though :( , but being non wastefull, I'm thinking of grafting it on my established NDM tree.
    Guajiro and others grafters, would you select dormant NDM stems for attatchment? or active? I have both. I've read to use similair diameter stems-to-scion and away from direct sunlight. I'm favoring a Cleft graph (harder) at this point.

  • bsbullie
    12 years ago

    TnT - it is kind of late in the year to pug that new Mahachanok. I would wait till the warmer part of Spring.

    Rob

  • guajiro
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Tnt, the Maha and Cushman scions that I cleft grafted onto established trees didn't seem to take :/
    I don't know if the cooler temperatures or the large amount of precipitation we've had anything to do with it.
    I'll try to do a veneer graft next time since, at least for me, has a higher success rate.
    Does anyone know of a professional grafter that does home visits? :)

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago

    This time of year it's quite hard to get mango grafts to take.

    Jeff

  • jeffhagen
    12 years ago

    June/July are the best months (in FL at least). You can get pretty close to 100% take in those months. Aug is decent too.

    Jeff

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    I see. Point taken guys. Thanks.

  • guajiro
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks Jeff! I'll be prepared then.

  • zands
    12 years ago

    Thanks for that Jeff. The sap must be rising then for Florida mangoes. June-July= prime time for grafting

  • tropicdude
    12 years ago

    I will be visiting S. Fla in Early December, and would love to get my hands on some scions, if possible to bring back to the Dominican Rep. and graft them. Maha Chanook, and/or Lemon Zest if possible.

    I have brought grafted trees in my suit case with limited success in the past. I once brought a Lancentilla, and an Alphonso, to get them to fit, I had to cut them, remove all branches, the Lancetilla survived, but the Alphonso did not, that tree had its graft up high, so only had about 6" left. and it turned black on the tip, and worked its way down fast.

    So I am thinking bringing scions to graft onto local root stock will be better, locally they use a mango called "Banilejo".

    any tips on where I might be able to get some around that time? my return trip is Dec 10.

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    So how vigorous is the Cushman mango tree? Like a regular Nam Doc Mai more or less?

  • hmhausman
    12 years ago

    Tropic Dude:

    You are certainly welcome to stop by my house. I am as likely s anyone to have Maha Chanook scion available. Althought the time of year is not optimum for taking budwood. My Lemon Zest is still very small and I am not likely to have material for you there.

    TnTRobbie:

    Cushman is a normal growing mango tree and therefore is larger and more vigorous than NDM.

    Harry

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    Thanks Harry :). One more question if you dont mind :D. How would you rate your Cushmans fruit production/setting of fruit, compared your Julie?

  • hmhausman
    12 years ago

    TnTRobbie:

    For me there is no comparison. My Julie tree is lucky to produce 10, badly fungus covered mangoes, each season while Cushman produces a mulitple of that....like between 5-10 times as much. And Cushman is not even close to Julie in terms of susceptibility to fungal attack.

    Harry

  • TnTRobbie
    12 years ago

    Thank you for answering my questions Harry. Much appreciated.

    Rob

  • tropicdude
    12 years ago

    @Harry

    I agree this is kind of not the best time to graft. I picked up a 3 gallon MC from Excalibur.

    Thank you very much for offering .

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