The size of the two trees you mention would be similar. I would say that it would easily respond to pruning and size control. I can't comment on the best source, but Excalibur would be a good source.

Harry

I would agree with Harry, size is similar and can be controlled with regular and proper pruning (I see no reason why both could not be kept at about 10 feet while still bearing plenty of fruit). The are both very good bearers with NDM being a shorter season, The Mahachanok "season" stretches a longer time period. Excalibur does have both, and possibly may even have one of the NDM on experimental dwarf root stock (though definitely pricier than the regular NDM but so far seems to be a more compact, bushier grower).

Rob

If you're asking about the regular NDM, then the above opinions are dead on. But, if you're asking about NDM #4, then there are some major differences.

My neighbor's NDM #4 is roughly 6 to 7 years old, has a trunk approaching the thickness of my knee yet is only 6.5 feet tall and maybe 8 feet wide. It has a very long season, producing multiple crops starting in May. In fact it already has two-inch sized fruit on 1/5 of the tree with another 1/5 in bloom. The rest of the tree will bloom in successive waves.

My friend Noel was just over today taking pictures of my neighbor's tree because it's so outstanding.

So, if my neighbors NDM #4 is representative, then it would be much smaller than the MC and have a longer bearing season.

The regular NDM on the other hand (I forget what number it is) is a fairly vigorous grower and has a bearing season that rarely spans more than 6 weeks. It's almost a completely different tree.

I've been tracking the growth/bearing habit of my 7 to 8 year old NDM vs my neighbors 6 to 7 year old NDM #4 for the past few years now and the differences are vast.

Regarding flavor, it depends on who you ask. It's hard to beat a well ripened NDM, especially if you like low tart / high sugar mangoes.

Jeff

Here's a picture of my neighbor's NDM#4 taken by my friend this evening (Dec 11). It sets GOBS of fruit every year starting in Nov. It's a freak.

Jeff - whether NDM #4 or otherwise, I would say your neighbors tree is the exception, not the norm.

Not sure what you have had of the Mahachanok but comparing both at optimal ripe stage, the Mahachanok is consistently sweeter although two totally different flavor profiles.

Rob

Rob, when you say that are you referring to other mature-ish NDM #4 trees that you've seen? If so I'd be interested in comparing the growth habit of my neighbor's tree to the trees you've seen. The only other big NDM #4 trees I've seen were the ones at Zill's HPP in 45 gal pots and they had a very similar growth profile.

As for the bearing habit, the NDM #4 is actually known as Nam doc mai twai - the twai refers to early bearing habit. It's an off season bloomer, so as far as I know the early, multi-stage bearing habit is typical. Again, I'd be interested in comparing it to trees you've seen.

Dr Campbell mentioned that the differences in bearing between the two trees were night and day. He referenced an orchard of the common NDM trees in Homestead that went out of business due to lack of production. If I remember correctly he said the regular NDM was #12.

At any rate, the NDM #4 tree is very new. I don't think it was propagated (in mainland US) any more recently than 2005. So finding mature trees is a challenge. Zill's just barely started selling them in 2010 and TreeHouse nursery barely planted out their first NDM #4 trees this past year (they previously grafted from potted specimens). I believe Pine Island started grafting them in 05 or 06.

And as for flavor, a lot depends on ethnicity. The American palate seems to prefer a tartish fruit (probably because we're accustomed to eating temperate stone fruits). Yet, folks of other backgrounds will often much prefer less tart. My wife who is of Central American descent far prefers a Pim sane mun, nam doc mai, or okrung to an edward while the typical American might invert that preference.

Jeff

I have only seen one planted out specimen of #4, and I am only going by what I was told. I do not have any facts as to it being a true #4. I never asked the age or when purchased but it is significantly more compact and smaller in nature than the "regular" NDMs I have seen which are definitely not a small/condo sized tree.

I think the taste/palate issue goes even further. I see people who buy California peaches/nectarines at Publix, or wherever, and they think they are great. I hear them eating it and they crunch, which is just wrong, and am sure they have little flavor, not juicy and lack sweetness. I have been to Georgia and had fresh picked peaches which I am sure many people would be floored over. The same with when I was a kid growing up outside of Philly. I used to pick fresh plums, pears and apples (my friend's parents owned a huge orchard with sooo many heirloom varieties of each. I remember walking out, picking fruit off the trees perfectly ripe and delicious. Taste are NOTHING like what you buy in even the best stores. I will never buy an apple, plum or pear in the store again (well, as far as pears, those giant "cream of the crop" Royal Riviera pears from Harry n Davids are amazing).

With that being said, I am one that prefers mangoes on the sweeter side, with less tart/acidic flavors.

Rob

But does anyone know how the flavors of the two varieties compare? I spoke to someone over the phone at Excalibur, and he was ecstatic over the Mahachanok although he still considered NamDocMai a very worthwhile mango.

Go with quality over quantity on this one. Not to mention the exotic factor. Have you ever seen NDM crack the top five at one of Harry's taste tests? Have you ever heard of any other mango rival or beat an Edward? Do the mango experts at Excallibur do back flips for NDM? Not so much...

For most americans, the nam doc mai is an acquired taste. The NDM is a very sweet mango, and to the american palate lacks the acidity. When very ripe it also develops a bit of a 'vegetable' flavor (hard to describe). It took me a couple of years before I fell in love with the NDM.

The hispanics, islanders, etc don't have that problem - they go bezerk for the NDM the minute they try it :-). There's no one size fits all mango since here in South Florida, we do have such a diverse culture.

Jeff

I was just noticing Fairchild's description of the nam doc mai:
When ripe, they have a smooth, silky texture and extreme sweetness and bouquet.

They're stinkin delicious and honey sweet!

Jeff

Jeff - you hit the nail on the head. When NDM is picked at the right time and allowed to fully ripen, they have a definite honey character to them.

Rob

:-) I love my NDM. Can't wait til mango season :-)

Jeff

Jeff,

Is there a difference in taste and texture between the regular ndm and the #4 ndm or is it just the tree structure and growth habit that's different?

The fruit flavor/texture is indistinguishable. It did seem like the NDM4 was just a tad smaller though.

Jeff

oh ok. Thanks Jeff.

Anyone's regualar NDM is flowering right now? Mine's isn't (15-18 ft, 5yrs old). If the Lancetilla and Carrie don't work out, I would LOVE to add NDM#4 as an early season, productive tree. Jeff, did your neighbour with the freakish NDM4 get it from you?