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Winter Weather 2010-2011

Posted by hmhausman FL 10B (My Page) on
Tue, Dec 7, 10 at 16:19

Wanted to start my own thread as I'll never find the one where everyone has posted when I want to look back on the weather history my plants encountered this winter. As always, my thoughts are out to all those in "zone denial" folks out there. May your plants come through this winter with as little damage as possible!

Last night my thermometers read 34 F. The local personal weather stations seemed to be 1-3 degrees warmer, which has been an ongoing issue with me based on readings last winter. I had light, scattered frost on the grass in lower areas of the yard. The roof, on the northern side of the house was covered with frost. Local personal stations indicate a 3 hour sub-40F period from basically 4:30-7:30 AM. I am concerned about mango blooms on Edward as they seem to be in that precarious netherland between blooming and setting fruit. No fruit set so far on anything but Rosigold. Initial bloom on Thai Everbearing set no fruit, but it was not a full blooming. There are now lots of new blooms spikes coming. Everything else mango-wise should be fine. I did bring indoors all seedlings from Puerto Rico which included Rambutan, Pulasan, Mangosteen, and Langsat. Jakfruit seedlings and everything else was left out to fend for themselves.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I left all my PR seedlings out to fend for themselves. Only the strong will survive. I did bring in my recent mammea americana grafts though.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Freezing weather isn't an issue where I am but winter winds are. For the last 5 days it has been blowing gales up to 45 knots...and lows of a chilly 59F also. With some plants still recovering from Hurricane Igor, they need a break just as we get our first winter storm...

Out of curiousity, for precious trees that cannot be moved in a frosty area, do folks spray water on them and does that work?


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RE: Water

Abayomi,
The spraying water on them technique is one that is often used incorrectly by homeowners and usually has no effect or worse causes more harm. Commercial growers that do the spray water technique often use high pressure sprinkler systems to push lots of volume of water on the trees to prevent damage. If the water is sprayed at the wrong time (when the temp has dropped too much) it will cause more damage. If it sprayed at the right time (a few degrees above freezing, I think around 4 or so) it can help to prevent cold damage.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Sheehan, leaving those PR seedings out in this weather unprotected at their tender stage of development is cruel, inhumane and just asking for their pre-mature death. I'm reporting you to the ASPCPlants. :-))

Harry


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

27 degrees for me this morning...frost on the lawns and roofs.
Not sure how badly my damages are yet...too soon to tell. Not looking good for the first week of December...we're still two weeks from officially being winter **sigh**. Almost 4 weeks ahead from our first freeze last winter (January 3rd).


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Harry-
If you have access to a helicopter, I believe they use those in orange groves in California to help mix the air on cold nights :)

I'll do some digging tonite and see what happened in years that match this in terms of December cold snaps (in Miami) and what followed in Jan and Feb.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Frank:

If you'll remember, last year we had record warmth until the bottom fell out on our temps in early January. I'm not sure we can draw any real conclusions from what has happened in the past....but it would be interesting to see what you are able to dig up. So much for the Joe Bastardi prediciton of a warmer than usual winter for Florida.

Harry


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Harry,
With an exam today and another one on Thursday, my plants will have to tough it out. lol

I hope my pulasan lives so I can present my much better specimen when I win our bet.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I was telling my husband that the 250 watt work light in the garage was coming out the next night we have prediction of close to freezing (30.s) He said I couldn't do that and looked at me like I was insane. I may or may not cover them but definitely will huddle my potted mangoes closer to house and put the work light on the ground in the middle of the ring on cement tiles just to help a little. I took everything in less then a 10 gallon pots inside the patio and the Cherimoya seedlings into the house near a well lit window. I think Lake Tahoe had temps higher than we Zone 10 Popsicles yesterday!!!
NOW for my question.... is it better for the soil to be more moist or more dry when the temperatures are this low?????
Happy Holidays everyone :)


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Winter Weather --2010-2011

PS---- I had to show hubby pics that others had posted on this forum of nearly the exact same light being used for the same purpose just to prove to him I could use this 250 watt work light like this safely before he would believe me that lots of people do it and it works well.... now I just have to get him to help me move all these pots


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Harry...you should go and confiscate Sheehan's PR plants. The boy is a public peril! Can you file any kind of charges against him? He's still in school trying to learn so he is vulnerable!


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Last night the low here was one degree warmer....at 35F but was sub-40F for over 5 hours....from 2:15 am until around 7:30 according to the local personal weather stations. We had less wind...actually no wind and the frost is considerably more widespread on the grass and much more white/thick on the rooves. No damage has appeared as of yet. This cold spell should kick lychees into bloom early...or at least earlier than last year.

Jay:

Naa.....if his plants die its fine. We have a bet and the stakes for the wager is his first year's salary once he gets out into the real world and starts working.

MarinFla:

The conventional wisdom is that moist soil is better than dry for two reasons. The first is that you want to keep humidity as high as possible since the relative humidity during these cold blasts is always very low. You don;t want the leaves to dry up on you. The second reason is that the more moisture in th soil, the more heat that will be retained as water holds heat better than dry soil. Of course, if you are moving large pots...the weight factor can come into play as you'd rather have a plant on the dry side rather than a back on the "out" side.

Harry


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

You know?

It is sad when my father calls me from PR and says they are looking for space heaters now because recently the mornings have been the coldest ever.

Mid 40's for the tropics is just not right..This is a bad sign..

I wish you all the best of luck..

Do you suppose that a certain goverment has found out a way to manipulate the "Jet Stream" to create havock amounst our economy, especially on the crops?
My uncle in the Marines told me years ago that if a country could use the Jet Stream against another country, it would be weather warfare to weaken another country by extreme weather changes, drought, floods, freezes in places they that should not exist.
I never believed him but now I am starting to wonder with all the satelites up there and techknowlogy...I even had an oldrr respected women tell me that sending all those rockets to space has been poking holes into teh atmosphere that otherwise would protect the ehat exscaping at night in your area through the atmosphere which causes very extreme radiational cooling..

Makes one think I tell you..Nothing suprises me anymore.

Mike


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I suspect its the mole people personally.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Here's the official site for one of the technologies inspiring wild conspiracy theories: http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/. Just google HAARP for much entertaining reading on the non-official sites. If that doesn't give you enough conspiracy theories to read, try "hurricane manipulation". Seeing as I'm not a physicist or a psychic I can't even begin to guess what is true.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

MeyerMike-

There really isn't anything extremely rare with what is happening. I have about 75 years of weather records open on an Excel sheet right now for Miami and I see 49 times that the temps has been 39F or lower. On top of that there is a lot of missing data in there (shows up as 9999) so there are probably even a few more cases. Its showing 3x that the temp has hit 32F in Miami (1977/1980/1989).

Now imagine we had 1000 years of data. Could you imagine how cold (and how warm) a few of those winters probably were? There are reasons that native plants of S. FL probably handle this weather with ease while non-natives (tropicals) get damaged so much.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

...for those of us not familiar with the florida members' locations, when you folks post weather related issues like this, could you please give a city name and/or perhaps northern, central, or southern state location and maybe even coastal or inland so we can get a better picture of the extent of the bad weather?

feel really badly for you guys, having to fight
all these battles....

much appreciated.....mangopup


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Calling for 19 by me in Ocala. Hopefully the GH and heaters can handle it.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

In January 2010, the Gulf Stream briefly connected with the West Greenland Current after fluctuating for a few weeks due to an extreme negative phase of the Arctic oscillation, temporarily diverting it west of Greenland.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_thermohaline_circulation#Measurements_in_2004.2C_2005.2C_2008_and_2010


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Just checked Weather.com for Sebring, calling for a low of 24 degrees for next Mon. night/Tues. morning. OUCH! I just don't know if my trees can handle this...and weatherunderground.com always comes in lower forecast than w.com. Might be my last year growing mangoes in the ground! I already lost two lychees and a mango last winter.

Marin, good luck...you're much warmer than I am though, so you should be fine.

Jsvand, Good luck, I can't even imagine what your forecast is for next Tuesday if I'm suppose to be in the low 20's??


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Yeah, this sucks. Just when I decide that global warming has prevented most freezes in my area, I get a house with a yard, and I plant the stuff I really want to grow, it starts freezing earlier and harder every year!
My low was 27F (2 hours) +30F (rest of night) last night. I protected most things (I've gotten good at it by now). Then, I purposely left some uncovered to see what would happen. Here are my results:

. Bananas: Fried (everyone knows this!).
. 4x4 mango seedling: Not fried, about 50% of the leaves will probably drop.
. Pineapples: Around 20% leave death, near fence, very far from house.
. Two cattleyas (orchids attached to oak tree): Seem in perfect condition.
. Seedling potted limequat: Perfectly fine, near house.
. Seedling potted pummelo: Perfectly fine, near house.
. Bird of paradise: Perfectly fine, near house.
. Lemon Grass: Perfectly fine, near house, survived 22f last year with minor damage.
. Pink delight pitaya: Perfectly fine, no apparent damage, even on tender growth.
. Cyathea australis (tree fern): Around 50% frond death, trunk can survive temps down to around 12F. The fronds are deciduous.
. Two tropical guavas: Covered, but no heat source, perfectly fine. Have previously survived 27.5F uncovered with little damage. Located near house.
. Large potted aloe Vera: Perfectly fine, located under oak tree.

Good luck to all!


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Nancy I am sending warmer fuzzies and well wishes for you nad yur precious trees :( and promises of many boxes of jumbo Kents this summer with your name on them!!

The weather.com predicts 33'f for Deerfield Beach on Monday

I have been bringing in all my little pots at night and putting them back outside in the sun all day before I go to work and bringing them back in after dinner.

The bigger pots I am planning to huddle together Sunday during the day and put the 250 watt work light in the middle of it. Happy to report my hard headed hubby who argued my knowledge of anything I ever learned on this site finally read the sad rejected look on my face and valiantly offered to help me move all my potted trees to a central huddle spot and cover them with a visqueen (sp) tarp to try to heat them some.

The Carrie and Keitt that are in the ground are on their own and the figs will like the cold but I will at least toss them into the garage over night each night. The Carrie got no special protection last year during the freeze of 2009/2010 with no issues like the freeze never existed.

I never kept records of any kind last winter as I really didn't get "fruit tree OCD" until early this year.........
Are the temperatures lower this Winter than in the Winter 2009/2010 or is it just a few weeks earlier or both?


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Thanks Marin! I'm glad your husband is finally seeing the light,lol...I remember my DH for the longest time couldn't understand what my OCD with these trees were all about, but now he just "goes with the flow"...I guess he finally understands there's really NO point in fighting it!

So far the freeze is definitely early, last year my first freeze was the first week of January, so almost a month early, but the temperatures at least for me haven't been colder(yet) I just checked my records from last year, and my lowest temps recorded in my back yard was between 23-24 degrees, but we still have over 3 months to go! I'm guessing the temps will only get worse as winter progresses? Gosh knows I hope I'm wrong!

Plus this first one really caught be off guard and I wasn't
completely done with my set-up, and I didn't have any lights/heat for them so I have some (frost) foliar damage to my trees already..so I'm not off to a good start.

Mostro, good luck to you and thanks for posting your results.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I'm west of Fort Lauderdale near the Everglades. Had ice on my windshield Tuesday and Wednesday mornings. Had to wait in my driveway for defroster to work on ice and then use windshield wipers to wipe it away. Had ice sliding up windshield as I drove to work. Not supposed to need an ice scraper in Fort Lauderdale, but maybe it's time to invest in one! Nam Doc Mai has fruit set and had no extra protection. Fruit on outside of tree are turing yellow and pink so I think I will lose those. Some on inside branches still green. Tree is pushing more blooms which don't seem to be affected by freeze. Valencia pride 1 year old with new growth was not affected at all. This little tree was not affected last year either, with no protection and newly planted in October. Really tough, and grew like crazy last season (and still growing). I have a fig that's showing some frost damage and a sugar apple with some damage as well. Yard long beans are totally frost bitten. Escarole is laughing and loving it.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Hey great idea to have people post their locations! Neat to see where everybody is. I'm in Oviedo. Central FL, about an hour from the coast. Last night's temp stayed in the 40s. It looks like all my covered trees came through fine. I will uncover them today and inspect more closely. But peeking under the edges shows that a lychee with a flush of new growth and a mango in full bloom are both unharmed.

Bananas took foliar damage, but not as badly as I had expected:

- Truly Tiny (completely unprotected and in the center of my yard) - Nearly all leaves damaged, but trunk is I think unharmed. This was expected.
- Ice Cream - This one is fruiting, I wrapped the fruit bunch heavily in c9 xmas lights and as much of the crown of the fruiting stalk as I had lights left on that string. Fruit looks ok (but really can't tell yet), and about 1/4 of the leaves took damage. The plant is right up against the south wall of my house, so all the damage is concentrated on leaves farthest from the house.
- Dwarf Brazilian - Has c9 lights wrapped around the trunk. Also against the house - only some minor leaf damage on leaves farthest from the house.
- Veinte Cohol - Planted in ground, inside my screen room. Has c9 lights on the trunk. Took almost no damage. Gets a lot of micro-climate protection from the pool and the screen.

-Bird of Paradise not in flower & uncovered - unharmed
-Bird of Paradise in flower & covered with a paint drop cloth - even flowers are undamaged
-Purple elephant ears, uncovered - surprisingly, not damaged at all
-Low chill peach - very confused by the preceeding warm weather and in full flower. I was very surprised that the flowers were not at all damaged by frost.
- herbs & cool weather veggies - lettuces, peas, carrots, radishes, beets, strawberries & huge variety of herbs. All unprotected and fine. Only the very cold intolerant basil took some minor foliar damage.

marinfla - If you have any sliding glass doors, moving your plants up next to the doors (but still outside) is probably enough protection for them. I do that with things like my potted pineapples & jades. Right next to my sliding glass door, the temp is 4-6 degrees warmer than ambient air temp. I got to 27 2 nights ago, and this was plenty to protect my pineapples. Last year when I got to 24, that was just over the edge and I had 2 pineapples next to the glass door that still got frozen and died.

Nancy & jsvand - Your temps are so cold! Good luck!

Ice in Fort Lauderdale - that is crazy terrisofla!


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Weather.com just bumped me up to 26 on tuesday so hopefully it won't be as bad as they originally were saying. My plants can handle 26, but 20 was a bit scary.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I hope so too Jsvand...they bumped me up also...but we're still 4 days away, so I guess I need to stop checking it till Monday,lol...but its SO hard not to so you can prepare.

The worst part of covering the trees ( using Frost blankets/ sheets/plastic is its usually windy the afternoon before the freeze. I use clothes pins to attach them to the conduit poles and they snap right off when the wind is gusting. Very frustrating, by the time the wind dies down its pitch dark and you can't see anything,lol...We're really crazy I guess!


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

NWS Miami says this today:

WE ARE NOW FORECASTING UPPER 20S/LOWER 30S FOR THE LAKE
OKEECHOBEE REGION AND LOWER 30S ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE REDLAND OF
MIAMI-DADE. HIGHS WERE TRENDED DOWN BELOW GFS MOS...WHICH HAS A
HIGH BIAS IN THESE ANOMALOUS EVENTS AND BEING SEVERAL DAYS OUT IN
TIME. SO HAVE ADJUSTED HIGH TEMPS MORE IN LINE WITH HPC NUMBERS
BEHIND THE FRONT. WE WILL CLOSELY MONITOR TRENDS OVER THE COMING
DAYS...TO SEE IF MODELS WARM OR COOL...OR REMAIN STEADY. CURRENT
THINKING IS THAT WE MAY NEED A SLIGHT DOWNWARD ADJUSTMENT TO
TEMPS MON-WED...BUT WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE MODEL TRENDS BEFORE
MAKING THIS MOVE.

18Z GFS (wx model) pops out a 34F for Tuesday morning for Miami . My guess would be Miami will see a temp below 40F on Tuesday, although how far down it gets could depend on a lot of factors (clouds/wind/model errors)...

Just to show how bad this is looking, the LOCAL NWS office here in La Crosse mentioned Miami today in their Area Forecast Discussion (AFD). Basically they said that the SE Florida area is going to have air that is coldest compared to normal (very rare event) early next week.

For comparison its showing -25F here for a low on Tuesday morning.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Here is the latest temps pumped out by the GFS model this afternoon.

Showing Miami getting to 33F Tues morn and 39F weds morning...

Numbers have come in colder today then the past few days. I doubt it drops that low. I'd expect somewhere between 35F-40F... Then again, that is one of the warmest spots in Florida!

24.4 inches of snow on the ground at my house and the temp has been right around 0F all day. It could be worse :)


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Just checked in on NOAA and their zip code specific forecast......wherein it says:

Tonight: Mostly clear, with a low around 28. Wind chill values as low as 17. Blustery, with a north wind between 13 and 17 mph, with gusts as high as 23 mph.

YIKES!!!!! It was a balmy 31 F forecasted a short while ago. What the heck FrankTank.......their going in the wrong direction.

Harry


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Yah, this is looking quite bad. It went from a 32 mon/ 36 tues low to 29 mon/ 32 tues.

Jeff


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I find it too bad a very bad nightmare!

You should hear my Aunt when she calls..She practically wants to cry..She said the other day she saw certain kinds of little lizards motionless in her driveway and on her porch the other night..She says that her her neighbor's yards and lawns look they something she has never seen..Blankets, plastic tarps, lights, fires, foam, water sprinklers and all kind of things they are doing to aviod those frosty temps.
She is worried about her in-ground citus trees too..


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Yup.. This afternoon the models came in colder for Miami. Its still *possible* they don't drop that far. Lets hope so. I know in the spring my trees in flower (peaches/apricots/cherries) are safe to 28F, but i'm not so sure how tropicals handle that temp. I can imagine the coconut palms will not be happy!


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Harry-

"
Event date: Freeze of February 2-9, 1835
Summary of event: According to Warren Johnson, Meteorologist In Charge in 1958, the freeze of
1835 was the most severe of all historically significant freezes in the state of Florida. During this
freeze, the St. Johns River was frozen, "several rods from the shore," and people were able to walk a
distance from the shore. Many citrus and other fruit trees were killed to the ground, never to grow
again, when temperatures reached as low as 1�F in Charleston and 8�F in Jacksonville. A Florida
gentleman told a newspaper that the state, "appeared as desolate as if a fire had swept over it," after
the severe freeze of that winter season. According to Florida Citrus Mutual, this freeze was so
severe that it is considered an impact freeze. This indicates that the freeze, "annihilate[d] entire
groves across the state, killing both mature and young citrus trees, while causing a profound
economic impact on the citrus industry and� prompting growers to replant farther south." This
freeze ended attempts to grow citrus in southern Georgia, southeast South Carolina, and northern
Florida. "


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

  • Posted by marinfla 10 Deerfield Beach (My Page) on
    Mon, Dec 13, 10 at 22:47

All of my potted trees are safely stuffed into the garage.... kicked the car to the curb lol. I am looking forward to warmer temps.... this is overwhelming! The 35 gallon ceramic pots were too big for even two strong people to move. I had to get a big hand truck and a big guy to help me move them

Harry have you seen any of those huge green iguanas freeze and fall from the trees?


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Marin:

Oh yes, we had falling iguanas with last year's freeze. This year, I don't think I have any left to fall from the trees. I did find a Basilisk Lizard on the ground last week with the cold. The lizard population was decimated with last winter's freeze.

FrankTank:

So I guess what you are trying to say is we shouldn't complain about the cold...it could be much worse. I wasn't even aware that citrus was being grown in Florida back in the mid-1830's. But then again, the Spanish were here in the 1500's so I guess they may have brought it in at some point.

OH well.....I've done what am going to do to protect plants. I'm off to bed......good luck to everyone. I'm not looking forward to seeing the morning's freeze. Hoping for a last minute reprieve with a wind shift or something.
NOAA still says 28 F. Not good.

Harry


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Well.....not as bad here as predicted. We were sub 40F for about 7 hours from 1:30 am through about 8:30 am. The low was 31.4 and we were sub 32F for about 2 hours from 5 am until about 7 am. I did not see much in the way of frost compared to last weeks chill. Seeing some damaged new growth on jakfruit (the colder sensitive Tabouey x J 30) and leaves are pretty much gone or burnt on all guanabanas. Other than that, no visible immediate damage. I hope there is good news with you folks further north. Seems the winds died down considerably so hopefully your protective structures held.

Harry


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

It was 33 here outside of tampa at 9am. At about midnight it was 36. We had a good few hours of hard freeze. At 7:15 this morning it was 24.

Everything was covered but still.. this was way too cold for Dec.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Harry-

Yeah... It could be worse. Christmas 1989 cold blast was also another one that comes to mind. I believe Miami hit 32F with that one and several nights were in the 30s.

Winds should go calm tonite, but the GFS showing temps right around 40F for Miami.

Lets just say we are lucky this came early in December vs later in the year, when even colder air lurks to the north.

For what I have read, it sounds like citrus have been growing in Florida since the 1500's...pretty amazing stuff. Too bad they didn't keep weather records!

I had -17F in my backyard this morning.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I am in zipcode 32780. I ran my sprinklers from 12- 9 a.m. on my 3 mango trees. Here is how my Edward mango looked this morning. My overnight low was 26.2, and it was below freezing for 7 hours.

Edward Mango, 12/14/2010


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

  • Posted by zands 10b in FL (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 14, 10 at 10:36

BluePalm
Great mango/icicle photo/ Please give an update on how that worked out

In my zip 33321 it was 33.6 Fahrenheit at 530AM


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

That is an awesome picture...I have to admit! Yes, please let us know how it works. Very interesting experiment. Hopefully it will work as well for you as the Strawberry and Citrus farmers!! Keeping fingers crossed!

Very Cool picture Bluepalm!


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011 ---

  • Posted by zands 10b in FL (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 14, 10 at 10:59

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/12/08/Three-helicopters-crash-in-Florida/UPI-51721291831216/

Last week three helicopters crashed while trying to blow warmer air downward into Palm Beach county Florida citrus groves. I hope it worked out a lot better with last nights arctic blasts

Here is a link that might be useful: Copter Crashes


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Blue Palm:

Yes, very cool picture.....or dare I say cold picture. I hope that mango tree is safe and sound under all that ice. I fear that it might not be that happy in there though. Will be very interested to see how it fares after the thaw. Will you melt the ice with warm water or let it thaw naturally.....that is if it gets warm enough to melt the ice? Please keep us posted.

Harry


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I hit 26. Everything looks fine though. The GH stayed above 35 with it being at around 40 closer to the heaters. Looks like tonight may be worse. Calling for 24 degrees. I have about 200 almost ripe grapfruit that will be going in the trash. It's still only 36 degrees here at almost 11:30.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Im interested to see how the igloo method fares.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I've decided to let it thaw naturally. I tried to speed up the thaw on one branch by banging icicles off the tree and destroyed the supportive "lattice-work" of ice (since it extends to the ground it is helping support its own weight). This bent some branches really badly and tore leaves off as the icicles fell...so I've decided to leave the tree alone. I think the tree encased in 32 degree ice might be better off than 26.2 temperatures.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Maybe, but I wonder if being at 32 for such a long time may be worse than 26 for a couple hours. Good luck. I hope it works for you. I know they do this with citrus so it would be great to find out that it works with more tropical stuff.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Let that thaw on its own! I wouldn't touch it at all.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Wow bluepalm - that is so brave! I'll be very interested in your result. Let us know if it fully melts today and what it looks like when it does.

Glad to hear your greenhouse stayed warm jsvand. Are the 200 grapefruit outside your greenhouse? Even if they froze completely if you pick and juice them right away the juice would still be good. That's what the orange groves do with the damaged fruit.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Thats a near future defoliated Mango!. It might have helped to keep large branches and trunk safe though.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

.......speechless in the desert.......mangowimper


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Image and video hosting by TinyPic


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Looks more like an ice age for the better part North America!


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You can almost see the corridor of cold air from my house in southwest WI (-17F) all the way down to western Cuba.

Cancun was 51F this morning.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Last year I covered my mangos in frost cloth and after the harsh winter lost 50%+ of my mango growth...so I said "why not?" and decided to test them under the sprinkler. I was below 32 for 7 hours, so I assumed that it would be better to be at 32 than at 26-28 for at least 3-4 hours.
No, the ice did not melt off the trees today...only melted partially. This should make it a little easier tonight to re-create the ice cocoon. I am under no illusions that mango trees don't like to be encased in ice. However, I also know they won't like tonight's freezing temps from 11:00 p.m.-8:30 a.m. And if they die, then screw-it, I'm going to plant lychees instead and get ripe mangos from my dad's house! My neighbor asked me yesterday "Where are your Christmas lights? When are you going to hang them up?" I said "They're under my frost cloth with my young lychees!"


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

The dewpoint right now is 10F in Miami... This is insane. The temp only hit 52F so far today.

Coconut palms are not going to be happy!


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

That Mango tree icicle is very interesting. Hoping for some luck tonight. Covered 5 of my 8ft mango trees which should have been around 12-15 ft if it wasnt for last years freeze. Will post a follow up of success or failure.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Temps by me (Pasco County 33541) went to 28f the night of 12/13 and are going to 25f the night of 12/14. I monitored the plants and protective enclosures through the night and was intrigued that I had no frost. Is this because of such low dew points?


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

  • Posted by zands 10b in FL (My Page) on
    Wed, Dec 15, 10 at 9:29

In my zip 33321 it was 36 Fahrenheit last night at 430AM

Two nights ago...meaning the first freeze night it was 33.6 Fahrenheit at 530AM

This coming night will be much better...according to forecasts


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

  • Posted by zands 10b in FL (My Page) on
    Wed, Dec 15, 10 at 11:34

The Global Warming promoters are having their conference in Cancun right now as Cancun goes through six days of record cold of 51 Fahrenheit. Too chilly to go swimming there

So it's not just Florida that's getting a cold blast

Here is a link that might be useful: Six straight days of record low temperatures during COP16 in Cancun Mexico


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Cold lately?

Note that its C not F...


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Odd morning temp wise. The low was lower than yesterday, bottoming out at 30.6. Below 40 F went about 12 hours, from about 8 PM until around 8:30 AM. We had widespread frost on the grass and roof, but vehicles had none. Frost was not nearly as heavy as the second day of cold last week. In anycase, the below freezing temps only lasted a very short time. I am not sure how long as by the time I woke up at 5 AM, the temps were ranging from 34.8-35.0 F.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I'm feeling better that you guys seemed to have a bit of break with the predicted cold temps....hope you're seeing the light of hope starting to shine.....

gary the mangopuppy


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Some of my trees took some damage from the cold temps we had in western Broward last night. Two of my mango trees are showing some discolored leaves on their out edges and on top one other has its bloom spikes curled up and looking strange. My green Sapote has some dead and dryed out leaves on its upper edge. Some of my banana plants look like they were blowtorched on the top leaves, although the middle and lower parts seem fine so far. The trees in the middle of the bunches seem ok. On a positive note all my other trees seem fine.

Where do I file my complaint that freesing weather just does not belong here in South Florida? Even if it is the second year in a row its here...


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Nice thread Harry.

We've bounced back from highs in teens, lows to 0F. GH perking along, nice not to have to water nearly as much.

I'm struggling with how to manipulate the GH temps to best ensure my Lychee bloom. Sweetheart is trying to push some vegetative growth now. I've been pruning much of it off because any blooms on top of that growth would be out of reach anyway. Brewster is about 4-6 weeks out past a growth flush

Yesterday I dropped the GH thermostat to 48 at night. Reasonable? What do you think?

And guys, my sole Garcinia and the PR seedlings are getting some extra heat, don't worry.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Hey Robert......48 should be good enough for lychee bloom. I am not sure of the magical number of nights at that temp before the inflorescenses will begin to emerge though. This cold spell we have just gone through along with the one we had a week or so ago should be good for our lychee bloom even if not so good for mangoes and other tropicals. The beauty of green house growing is you can control the cool down and optimize the results with little risk of foliar damage. It's just a question of the right combination of cooling that is the million dollar question. I remember reading somewhere that the major factor for lychee bloom is the temp differential between the lows and the highs. I think it is probably a combination of things and not just one climatic/meterologic factor.

I have let my PR seedlings encounter down to 45F while inside a protective structure. I do want to weed out those that are just ultra-cold sensitive as they will have little chance of ever reaching mature size (as if any actually have any chance...LOL). So I have seen some leaf burn on some of the seedlings. Most leaf burn on the Rambutans with slightly less on the Pulasans. Garcinias and Langsats have shown no leaf burn so far.

Harry


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

This morning our low was 38.1 and there was no frost. Looks like the below 40 window was pretty small as it didn't dip below until around 5 am and was back above 40 by 8 am. We had a week of warmer temps especially during the day, but lows reached the mid to upper 40' several times through the past week. I sheltered the ultra tropical seedlings from Puerto Rico last night, but had left them out with the mid-40's temps. They look pretty ragged at the moment, with leaf burn pretty much on everything other than mangosteen and achachairu.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I'm hoping it doesn't get any worse for you guys and gals.. How frustrating it is when the weather becomes a threat to years of hard work. Believe me, I've grown tropicals in WA state so I know how irritating it can be when cold weather rolls in. Where's the global warming when you need it? Just kidding. Stay warm, guys n gals.

everettsky


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

This morning we had extensive frost on the grass in all low lying areas and complete coverage with frost on the roof of the house, but none on the car. The morning low just touched 32 F for a very short time (like 10 minutes or so) but sub 40's temps began around 11 pm last night and didn't end until around 8:20 this morning. Forecast highs today aound 63F with a low predicted for tomorrow at around 43F. Will leave ultra tropicals in for another night. Mango blooms seem to be unaffected by the cold so far. I am seeing fruit set on Rosigold and Edward. Other mango blooms are slow to open in this cold.....not a bad thing.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

This may be little consolation but in Bermuda we are experiencing record cold weather also. About 7 days this month were the coldest on record for that particular day in December - records that have been standing since the 70s - and one day busted the all time recorded low for any day in December - 48F. Bear in mind the all time record low for any month is 44 and this would tend to occur in February. The average low for Dec is 61.

Being a good 10F below that on a daily basis and with so many record low days, this would appear to preview even lower temperatures in Jan/Feb. We've had several days with hail, something that is seen only once every few years. We've had 2 or 3 batches in the last few days. Lastly, this is the 3rd successive year where winds have been strong for weeks on end.

We have experienced winds persistently above 25knot, many days above 39 knots and gusts as high as 72knots for the last few weeks.

So while cold isn't a killer, winter winds of this duration and intensity and forces that can snap, tilt and kill trees in its path.


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Abayomi - nice place to live!

I hate to say this, and I hope I'm wrong but the weather lately is almost hinting at a horticultural armeggedon. A precursor to much worse stuff that may devastate even traditional farming crops and their growth patterns....

but other than actually reversing global warming and these strangely-placed warm and cold ocean currents, making for exotic storms and abnormal temperature fluxes, what can we do???

stressbaby - wanted to comment on your excellent setup (and plants) in your lower STRESS zone....


I just hope this is all just a funky bleep in the long history of the norm.....


mangodingo


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

thanks mangodog.

a friend recently pointed out "warming" is a verb, not a noun. Media has repeated it as a noun so many thousands of times that folks have unwittingly accepted it as a noun. This is relevant in the sense that if we use it in its proper way, as a verb, E.g. the earth is warming, that would mean providing evidence. Despite all the hoopla all day in the media, you still only need a thermometer to measure temperature.

But back to tropical fruits...if in fact cooler temperatures are coming as some predict (based on sunspot activity plummeting) it will impede our capacity to grow them without special measures. But for me it also opens the opportunity for items requiring chilling hours that we just never get here. Further, for all the hundreds of thousands of tropicals that would experience untold cold, there will be some that thrive and thus can be propagated also to "new" (colder location) uses...


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

NASA researcher Judah Cohen:
This is one of the hottest years on record, which has caused polar ice caps to melt. This means more water in the atmosphere that's available to make snow. So more snow fell all across Siberia, which acts like a giant cooling element for the Northern Hemisphere.

This caused the polar jet stream, which usually goes eastward across America, to "wander north and south" instead of just eastward. This means that Southern states like Florida get hit with the frigid air.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bundle Up, It's Global Warming NYT 12/25/10


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

I don't think there is debate as to whether the earth is on a warming trend. The debate is regarding the cause of the warming trend: some folks say natural events such as sun spots, while others say co2 buildup. I could declare my side on the issue and crack open a huge debate.. but probably not a good idea :-).

Jeff


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RE: Winter Weather 2010-2011

Mango K - fascinating and simple article you attached - the machine of frigid winters - extra snow in Siberia from global warming's excess polar ice melt - who knew!!???

Abayomi - I'm already amazed at how mangos are surviving such frigid Florida temps even as we speak, so you might be right. Perhaps they are evolving with the cold, but that generally is a slow process and these cold streaks seem to happening a bit too much and fast for plant evolution, me thinks, at this point.

Actually, I'm living on the razor's edge (I think) of being able to grow Mangos, papayas, apples, pears, peaches, macadamias, almonds, blueberris etc. due to just enough chill hours bred in to those hybridized "low chill" fruit varieties to produce and not quite enough cold to kill the mangos and papayas, etc. If enough winter lows stay between 32 and 45, as they have been the last 10 years or so that I've lived here (other than a single overnight stretch of 26 degrees back in Feb. 2007 that did some damage and maybe a dozen hits or so of right around 32)I benefit from getting enough chill hours for some fruits, and mere dormancy or slow growth for the semi-tropicals....

THe Mac Tree hasn't produced yet (only 3 years old) but everything else has....

interesting, eh?

mangobiscuit


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