I despise Walmart. The #(*& cat will only eat their brand of cat food!! So I go there to buy cat food, curse the whole time I'm there...and then I curse when I go to the parking lot, it was built on a wetland and so much of it was going to be protected. The "protected" wetlands were filled and a couple of hotels put up. So much for the birds!
Tally HO!

What I hate about Wal-Mart is, they have everything you want and nothing you need, meaning, If you're there just looking around, you can always find something you would like to have. But if you go there for something specific, they never have it. Of course they never have the specialty items that we used to go to our local hardware store for, before Wal-Mart drove them out of business.
Jim

But.....

They do make jobs for thousands of PEOPLE. Like when Chicago kicked them out of the city limits, they built one block out of town. They had 27,000 PEOPLE apply for 400 jobs.

The sales tax they generate is way over what the "Mom and Pops" would have paid. What does that do for our communities?

I think they do a pitiful job of siting their stores. They are not the most politically astute among us.

But I think they do good for PEOPLE too. My Ex-husband had 2 heart attacks when he was 42 years old. He was a high-powered go-getter, and the stress and the lifestyle almost did him in. He got a little job with WM, working in the auto dept of the store in Gatesville. Soon, he was running the dept. Then he was transferred to a superstore, and from there, to higher offices and bigger responsibilities. He thrives on it, and he has great benefits.

Saving my household $2,500.00 a year is important to me. $4.00 prescriptions are important as well, seeing as how we are some of those folks who do not have health insurance. I can usually find what I need there.

In our town, we still have business' that are not WM that are thriving. People will buy what they want. Where does it say we should pay 3 prices for something just some people don't like WM?

I am not saying we shouldn't have the M&Ps. They are just going to have to re-think how they do business.

Now, if you want to hear who reallllllllly peeves me, lets talk about HEB!

Janie

Or Walgreen's -- I watched a report the other day that stated they overcharge for meds more than any other pharmacy. It also stated that they could sell meds to seniors for less if they were not so greedy. Don't know if this is true, but the report seemed authentic to me.

I think it is pretty pathetic that thousands applied for jobs at Walmart but positions for police, nurses, teachers, computer programers, physicians, radiologist, etc. etc. etc. go unfilled as there are NO SKILLED WORKERS!

AND almost a full 70%, yes, SEVENTY percent, of Walmart employees are eligible for some sort of government benefits-WIC, food stamps, medicaid, section 8 housing.....

AND the Walmart family is in the top richest people in America, every year. Old Sam must be rolling in his grave.

AND as for taxes, think again, a lot of Walmart stores get tax abatements to bring stores to a community. So they do not always pay more taxes than the business they displaced. AND there is no negative for them if they leave a community.
Tally HO!

Tally pointed out what bothered me the most. I'm so afraid for all those unskilled workers. The "working poor". How pathetic to put in a full week and not be able to meet your bills or have private health coverage. PJ

I don't know where tally got her facts and figures, but a lot of WM employees are part-time workers. I would wager that just about anybody could qualify for some sort of government program, even full time employees. (Even Tally)

It isn't WalMart's fault that there are not enough skilled workers. People have to go to school to be police, doctors, nurses, and all those SKILLED WORKERS. Many WM employees are students, going to school to better themselves. If not for that job, they might not be able to go to school. They will be SKILLED WORKERS one of these days.

Did you pay attention to what I said about health insurance? We work hard, a regular job, and don't have any health insurance. It isn't offred by the company, and we can't afford what is out there. So, we just pay our way as we go. And we make a good living. Lets talk about the insurance industry......

We are not talkig about 'the working poor' here. We are talking about regular people, who happen to go to work for WalMart. The young mother who wants a few hours a week, while her kids are in school, for example. I know a lady who is very qualified, college educated, bank manager, who now works at WM, because the stress at the bank just got to be too much for her. She likes it at WM.

I would just suggest for those who just detest WM, DON'T GO THERE! Make the cat eat something else. It will get used to it. DOn't go in there looking for something you know they will not have, that way you won't be disappointed. Life is too short.....

Myself, I am going to WM in the morning.

Janie

Sorry, I disagree whole heartedly. Wal-Mart built a new facility here in the poor lesser aesthetic area.

It has generated more jobs and the people in this area fulfill those jobs. Maybe most of them do qualify for government aid, but at least they are working. I would rather have them working than not. You point out "70%" qualify for some sort of assistant, but do you know that they all actually take that assistance. I believe no you would be your answer. Growing up we were extremely poor and qualified for all of those programs, but we never participated in them. Also, I saw this quote about statistics and I believe it  "'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

I donÂt know how true the whole tax statement is, even if they do not pay as much taxes as other companies their employees do. Wal-Mart employs around 400 people here, those people are taxed. That is more revenue for the city.

The USA has pushed the idea of a college academic system so hard, and I believe that is the majority of the reason we donÂt have as many "trade" skill workers as we used to. The idea that a degree gets you a job versus a skill is shoved down our throats beginning at birth.

_"I think it is pretty pathetic that thousands applied for jobs at Wal-Mart but positions for police, nurses, teachers, computer programers, physicians, radiologist, etc. etc. etc. go unfilled as there are NO SKILLED WORKERS!"_
Do you honestly blame that on Wal-mart? ItÂs called ambition. There are so many programs out there these days that there is almost no excuse not to succeed. To be honest, some people donÂt have the mental capacity to be some of the highly skilled. Again, ambition drive people do better and better themselves.

I canÂt say that Wal-mart hasnÂt made bad decisions, but it is a fallacy to put so much blame on them. People are lazy, blame lazy people. You rarely see that though, because we are never responsible for out own bad decisions, we just have to find the right scapegoat.

Joe

Little_Dani - good point.

Even I qualify for some sort of assistance. We have a child and my wife is a stay-at-home mother. That is right the MAJORITY of US military personnel qualify for government assistance. Have any of you wrote you Senator for that reason? Or, posted a thread about it. Hmmmm...

Joe

My son is Army, my DGS is Army, and my nephew is Air Force. Yes, I have written my Senators. Both of them.

For those who would like to write to their senator, you should be able to look in the Government pages of the phone book for their address and phone #. They should have numbers for local offices, as well as Washington DC offices.

Janie

When I talk about taxes that WM pays, I am talking about sales taxes generated by their sales.

There are no rebates on sales taxes. They must pay what they collect.

That cost Chicago more than $1,000,000.00, for one store.

Lotta money

Janie

When I was still over the road trucking and needed, groceries, prescriptions refills, clothes or almost anything, Walmart welcomed truckers to shop there. Most other stores have signs allover "No trucks Allowed". It's a hard life when you're in a big truck for weeks at a time and truckers need food & meds too. Who can afford healthwise or moneywise to eat in restaurants all the time?
Truckstops are way overpriced, because they have a captive market. We need Walmarts.
I know...no one likes the semi's, but WITHOUT TRUCKS AMERICA STOPS. Everything we own, drive, eat, wear came in a truck at some time.
In my small town I notice Walmart also employs some people that are basically unemployable by most standards. Maybe they get an extra benefit for doing that, but I still think it's a good thing. Working at Walmart is not the job for people with special skills & college degees (other than management) it's for those without skills who can't get jobs other places or partimers.
Its sad mom & pop stores can't compete with the box stores, but most of us can't afford to shop those stores anymore anyways.

I was going to stay out of this one.....but what the hey. After working for a large, large bank for a long time, I can relate to unfairness to employees in any company. I am not saying that I left the bank for that reason...just that I can relate. I see the commercials on TV where WM employees are upset about the pay and lack of benefits, etc. But you know, I just have to think that if things were as bad as all of that, they would not have the numbers of people showing up for interviews that they do. Also, after supervising 20 women at my old job, I know how people react to a bad situation at work. It shows up in their attitudes and job performance. I have been to Wal-Mart at all hours of the day and night and I just don't see "oppression" or bad attitudes in the faces of the people there. Trust me, if my job involved stocking shelves at 3 o'clock in the morning, I may not be the most pleasant person :). I guess I can see both sides of this issue. Granbury has lost quite a few mom and pops to Walmart. But they've also lost quite a few to Home Dept, Lowes, Staples, etc. In a small (well, used to be small), resort town like this, we have a LOT of mom and pop businesses that used to charge you through the nose for their services or products. They were able to do this because they knew that they were the only game in town. If you didn't like their prices, then you could just drive the 50 or 60 miles to Fort Worth and spend the money on fuel instead of their services or products. We have quite a few other grocery stores here...we tend to shop at all of them, but mostly at Walmart. I think that it, like any other store serves a purpose. I am blessed in my life, but if I were less blessed, I would thank my lucky stars to be able to shop at WM. Wal-Greens is a joke and I can't believe that anyone would shop there. I look at their sale adds when I need a good laugh.

The thing about the tax incentives.....Even with the breaks that I am sure most WMs receive from these small towns, you can bet that they are still paying way more than all of the mom and pops put together. One thing that has happened as a result of WM being here, is that all of the grocery stores have either expanded, or updated or just become more competitive. I think that's a good thing, myself. And I agree that if WM offends you or just plain p*sses you off, you should not shop there. However I do remember a time not so long ago that had it not been for WalMart here, I would have been making a lot of 50-60 mile trips to Fort Worth to purchase things that otherwise could not be found in Granbury.

But like all things in life, always remember there's a good side and bad side to everything and we can all still live together and just agree to disagree. I don't think there's a true black and white answer to this issue. That's just my .02 on this and I am sure that many will disagree with me, but that's okay....I, like so many others just do the best I can with what I have and I sleep okay at night.

Kristi

Well put, Kristi, "agree to disagree". It would be a very dull world if we all felt the same. We can have our own convictions and still be open to the thoughts of others.

Wally mart doesn't that all by themselves, you know. It takes the cooperation of a few million (foolish?) people.

This is not a bad discussion. "Agreeing to disagree" is a great thing. I would be boring without different opinions. A super walmart is going in up the street. I'm fairly sure at least 2 grocery stores will be closing when they do. Unless I want to drive a long way to the store I'm going to be shopping there. Also IMHO Walmart attracts the criminal element. My nickname for Walmart is "Thug Mart". Maybe I'm just paranoid but Walmart makes me uneasy. I also have a feeling the property values will plummet with it so nearby. I haven't been here long enough to see what Walmart does to property values in TX. I have seen it hurt CA property values tho. PJ

"Walmart attracts the criminal element..." PJ, are you being serious?

I also was going to stay out of this, but just wanted to add my two cents. Many travelers use the Wal Mart parking lots to stay overnight when they are traveling. I do not think these folks would do this if there was a criminal element . Barb

I don't know if walmarts make property values go down. One was put in a few years ago by us and our property value has gone up not down. What did make our property value go down was the hwy, we lost 5000.00 due to the hwy going in :(
I think Malls have more Thug's than walmart.
There are a lot of companies that do not carry insurance for employees and there maybe even more as the years go on. If they can get away with it they'll do it to cut cost and put more money into their pocket. So walmart is not alone in doing this.
IMHO I think that America is in trouble and to tell the truth I am scare where our country is headed. Why are we letting other countries place bid's to built our Tollways? Why are we letting other countries buy up gas stations? What else is going on that we DON'T KNOW ABOUT?
PJ, there use to be a walmart there, it's is now an Antique shop right there on 377. I don't know why it closed down but it's been closed for 10 years or so.

PJ's right Wal Mart does attract criminal element of every kind. I used to work for Wal Mart a few years ago. I worked in customer service the main register the alarms on the doors would go off often from people using the 5-finger discount. The store I worked in had a lot of those bubbles in the ceiling and no camera in any of them. The lighting outside is poor at all Wal Marts and cars are easily stolen from there. The money orders that Wal mart issues are the most counterfeited in the US. Those working in Customer Service are told before they could cash any Wal Mart m o they had to run the serial number first.

There are thieves and criminal elements everywhere! It would be nice to live in a plastic bubble where reality didn't get in, but I've not found that neighborhood yet ;)

Wal Mart is a busy place and shoplifters will take advantage of that. When I worked at the HD, there were plenty of shoplifters and that was in a so-called 'nice community'. I watched a guy pick up a mosquito magnet, place it in a cart, roll around all over the store and then get in line at the return desk, trying to return it for store credit. My point is that there are bad people everywhere.

*I shop at Wal-Mart and Brookshires and Kroger and Home Depot and Lowes because I like to get what I want for less cash. I do also frequent the local mom and pop meat and produce markets to get a better quality, but I only do that when I have the extra cash to spend.

Not trying to agitate..just wanted to throw my hat in the ring too!

Pam

Hmmmm. This discussion is bringing to light the fact that there are a lot less honest people around than there used to be, as well as a lot more not nice people than there used to be.

So maybe it ain't really so much about Wally Mart, but more about the condition of the human animal.

Yes......I see all the same things going on in and around all those other stores, as well. My wife works retail for Kohl's.....and I can pretty much assure you that honest people are few and far between these days. Dishonest people are EVERYWHERE! I can only shake my head at what she tells me about.

Think about it......the average household is $8000. in debt, on high interest credit cards.....they are way overextended, with houses too expensive for them, and 2 SUV's which they never drive off city freeways, and a family room full of electronics, to watch commercials!

We have over consumed ourselves into despicable creatures....you know?

It's not just the small businesses in direct competition with Walmart, it's jobs here in America. Yes, Walmart does employ a lot of people. Many of those people had good jobs with manufacturers, but lost them becaue Walmart forced their jobs overseas to China. Nelson Sprinklers is an example of that. They used to employ 1000 people in Illinois. Walmart told them they wouldn't continue to carry their product unless they moved their manufacturing to China, where labor is cheaper. They now only employ 120 people in their home town. Think of all the other vendors Walmart strong-arms into moving their plants to China. Those people in Peoria, and places like that, were forced to shop at Walmart because that's the only place they could afford to shop at once they lost their jobs because of Walmart.

I do shop at Walmart for the same reason everyone else does...it's the least expensive. Unfortunately, there used to be a Super One nearby me, but they closed. There's just not many options near me to shop at other than super expensive Tom Thumb or Albertsons, vs. Walmart. I'm beginning to think it's just not worth it. Well, at least we're helping China's economy.

One positive thing I can say about Walmart is that the people that work there are very, very nice. I have yet to be treated rudely, which I can't say about Tom Thumb. The checkers at Walmart are always friendly and courteous, at least at the ones I go to.

Sally

I remember my husband complaining when he worked for Bryan PD about the sheer number of calls for service at Walmart. Shoplifting, lots of assaults, various auto incidents ... they neeeded their own police department! Not to mention the traffic accidents surrounding the place. The volume of customers should be taken into account when comparing Walmart to other retailers. That's a whole lot of people, around the clock, so you should expect the crime to be higher. Whether more criminally inclined persons actually go there is open to debate.

While we avoid Walmart, I admit it does serve an important purpose. Many people on a fixed income, the elderly, need such a place. With the drought and now the freeze, food costs are going to be outrageous. I'd bet these people stand a better chance of getting enough to eat by shopping at Walmart than any other large grocery. Their medication costs and 'one stop shopping' justify going to Walmart.

Yep Conroe I was dead serious about Walmart attracting crime at least in CA it sure did. I think Malls are worse just like Barb.I ABHOR malls. I've shopped in Walmart since the beginning of this year. I haven't bought anything in a mall for 4yrs.Last time I was in a mall I had to bounce this dopey chick off a plate glass window.Her and her dork friends thought shouldering people into the people coming the other way was a fun way to pass time through their useless lives.( I used her own momentum to get her up and going. She and her dopey group were quite surprised.) Target is slightly better(especially if you are crazy about red)Kohls,Ross and the like are OK. I think western wear stores smell good. I like the smell of feed stores too. Can you tell I grew up in horse country(boonies of Los Angeles)?

For shopping......I like to stay home. I have too expensive taste in most things. I have an uncanny knack for finding the most expensive item in a store.

These days, if you want something nice, it is hard to find, though. Everything is "made in China". Or at the very least, Malaysia.

European and US goods are sky high, as are most finely made Native American goods. The budget can't handle all that, so I just stay home, most of the time.

Cannot find a decent sportshirt, anywhere, in a print. Not even on-line. (Sick of solids and plaids, after 5 yrs. of them.) I wear a narrow shoe, which in mens' wear, is like asking someone to actually custom make it. There is only one store in the metroplex that even carries narrow width in a men's shoe. So, I gotta pay full nickle to buy a pair, and my feet have outgrown my shoes before I have worn them out, in recent years. (Why can't your feet stop growing, like your height?) I have long arms, so the Asian made stuff, has sleeves that are too short. I hate cotton socks, and finding acrylic has become difficult. (Had to send Gold Toe, a scathing email about their reduction in colors to just black, navy, brown, and khaki, and closing of their outlet in Allen. Accused them of contributing to the China goods problem, by their lack of offering.)

Ever notice how even the stores that started as mens' wear, have become 80% female goods? Try to find anything decent in the mens' wear department in Banana Republic, these days. Non-existent. Went to a western wear store......80% female goods.

Go to an exclusively mens' wear store, and what do you get?...stupid suits! I do not intend to ever wear a tie again.....unless it's a bolo.... much less a stupid suit!

We now have wrinkle free cotton fabrics......and what do they make shirts out of? Regular cotton, of course. If you want wrinkle free.....you gotta buy polyester! Arggggggghhhh!

Nope.....don't like to shop much, anymore, at all.

Rick, not to argue but the clothes you saw weren't for women. It was for females tho. Teenage/twenty yr olds without kids. The ever-growing junior dept. Adult women have a hard time too. They usually don't have to fight to find an 11 narrow shoe in something dressy, but they do have to find something that isn't either "granny or frumpy shoes/ clothes" or "teeny bopper shoes/clothes". No grown woman wants to dress like a frump or,heaven help us, Britney Spears. Summer isn't too bad with non-fitted skirts and tank tops but winter is usually sweats. Tall peps will always have a hard time finding stuff long enough. Shorter peps learn to hem stuff up early I'm sure! PJ

Okay.......those frumpy looking women I see every day.....didn't want to dress that way? (smile)

On the other hand....I never see many of the Britney type. Guess I don't frequent the right places.

The worst things in recent fashion history.....

the "midi" skirt......looked awful on anybody under 6 ft. tall

the current hip-hugger pants......which are not designed for the female figure, at all.

Pointy-toed and square-toed shoes.......which are either stupid looking, or unflattering, as the case may be, not to mention platforms....which are pretty ridiculous, not to mention dangerous.

Come to think of it....."slides" are pretty stupid too. Might as well be wearing house slippers.

Never understood why women wanted to wear shoes that make their feet look humongous, anyhoo.

Rick, with your experience in fashion, have you thought of coming up with a casual men's clothing business? Maybe you're not the only frustrated one out there. DH, on the other hand, just wears jeans and those knit pull-over shirts with the collars - are those what are called polo shirts? He gets them at the thrift store, usually. The jeans he likes best he told me he couldn't find any more in his size, the Wranglers stretch jeans in black. I thought surely they must be available somewhere, so I looked on line. I found them at Sheplers, and they made a nice Christmas present, but they were definately expensive - $40. and change. DH used to be able to get them at Walmart, (since we're supposed to be on that subject) but they don't have them any more. I haven't paid more than $10 for a pair of jeans for myself in a long time, and the last time I bought jeans I only paid about $3.50 for them - at the thrift store. But I've started to really babble, so I'll be quiet now.

Sally

I pay premium for jeans that fit. Boo hoo. Lots of folks must wear a size 9 jean. I can never find them at thrift stores. I'm so fashion challenged I had to look up what a "slide" was. Don't need huge shoes. I have huge feet!
You're right about hip hugger pants. They only look good on anorexics and anorexics look awful.
The mall. There are thousands and thousands of Britney Spears look alikes. In all shapes and sizes. They all wear hip huggers and very few of them are anorexic.
I stopped even thinking about wearing a midi skirt like a decade ago. Solid decision I think. PJ

Actually, I am prepared to buy the wife a fancy, dancy sewing machine, to make me some shirts, but she is hedging due to time.

I can find fabric, just not finished goods.

Pants I can find.....if I want khaki, or jeans. Not much else.

Of course, they keep cutting them smaller, so I keep having to increase the size, despite the fact my belt fits the exact same hole as always. The other issue, is they use nylon zippers in pants now. How stupid is that? Might be ok for a dress, but doesn't hold up at all in men's pants.

Nope. I ain't getting into any more businesses, whatsoever. Too old, and more than ready to retire. If the idiots in the fashion industry can't recognize their problems, then clothes will just have to be left on the rack.

Oh yeah.....used to have to take extreme measures to make garments look good in fashion......including cutting the back of women's tops, so they would hang right in the front. (grin) If you knew all the tricks and manipulations used in photographing this stuff, you would be pretty surprised.

Even with beaded and sequined gowns......we used a whole lot of pinning and clipping, to "adjust" garments.

The stylist was the most important person on the team. It was their job to make the garments look good on the model.....any way they could.

CD of the day...."Lullaby for the Moon", koto and shakuhachi.

"The other issue, is they use nylon zippers in pants now. How stupid is that? Might be ok for a dress, but doesn't hold up at all in men's pants."

ROFL....well that's certainly something that had never occurred to me! I guess your zippers get more of a work-out than ours do, huh?

Kristi

That's a big YUP!

The zipper reminds me of the time a friend of mine decided to save money. She told her girls to use less toilet paper.
My DH asked how that would save money. I asked him how many times a day did he use tp and then think how often little girls might use tp.

The TP reminds me of my grandfather on my mother's side. Her side of the family is all from Madrid, Spain. The very first time that Abuela and Abuelo (grandma and grandpa) came to the states to visit us, my grandfather came out of the bathroom mumbling and grumbling. When mom asked him what was wrong, he said "This american toilet paper!!! The pieces are not big enough!!!!". LOL, over there none of the TP was perforated!! LOL, I don't know if that's changed over there now or not but Mom assured him that he could use as many "pieces" as he needed to ;).

Kristi

Rick, we finally agree on something: nylon zippers in pants. They're a rip-off, in more ways than one!

We go to Wal Mart for lots of stuff. But they don't have everything we want. I don't like driving near there. Every time it feels like I'm running a gauntlet - or I'm a fish in a barrel, and all other drivers are shooting at me.

I managed to take a picture of one of those "Wal-mart thugs" some of you are talking about[points at PJ]...

The look Mrs.Zitro is giving you is priceless! LOL!
So, is that a fashion statement or do you run around in your dobok pants? Comfy aren't they? PJ

That was 3:30 in the morning, I cannot be held resposnsible for what I am wearing when I am awake at an unreasonable hour...

We had to be at the hospital at 4am.

Be careful wearing those in a hospital...they look a lot like scrubs...they might try to put you to work! PJ