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ritholtz

Suggestions for tall growing shrub/tree as a hedge to near by win

ritholtz
10 years ago

Hi,
I posed this message in landscaping forum. I am in Dallas. Please help me to come up with tree/plant for my needs.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/design/msg0918095027865.html

I am planning to plant tall growing shrubs/trees to get a privacy hedge from backside window facing my yard/patio. I am looking at Savanna holly, Neville Holly, Wax myrtle and Ligustrum wax leaf.

I am not able to decide on something. I went to nursery and looked at them. This nursery has some of them in smaller size. So, I can transport and plant my self. I got very expensive quotes from landscaper.

One idea is to grow Holly (Savanna or Neville) with 3'-4' gap and let them grow tall and narrow. They will make a hedge at the top (10' - 15' height).

Other idea is to plant wax myrtle / Ligustrum Wax leaf and grow them like a tree. We will have space at the bottom and they cover at the top.

I have received suggestions to plant Italian cypress and other conifers. But they might not form a hedge at the top.
Please let me know your suggestions.

Thanks,

Comments (31)

  • bostedo: 8a tx-bp-dfw
    10 years ago

    There are varieties of running bamboo that will quickly get the needed height and remain evergreen enough in Dallas to screen that view in the back. Can maintain within a small patch by installing a root barrier. Could also serve as a temporary screen while something else gets established.

    Think the relatively narrow Savanna hollies you're considering would look very nice, especially if you can get mostly female plants for their berries. Glad to learn they can thrive in our alkaline leaning clay. There are also some fastigiate/columnar forms of the native yaupon holly.

    Seems a good idea to seek out narrow cultivars because the standard privets, photinias, hollies and other mentioned shrubs generally want to grow nearly as wide as they are tall and will begin to dwarf your small spaces without a lot of pruning/training effort - especially as they head beyond 7ft. 'Emerald Green' (or other) arborvitae (thuja occidentalis) seems to be the most common fastigiate evergreen used around Dallas for accent and screening (~3 ft spacing). They broaden a bit with age, so much better form than Italian Cypress for privacy.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Arborvitae, 'Emerald Green'

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi barkingdogwoods and bostedo,
    Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for not replying your email early. I am not here. I need something to grow at least 15 feet. It can start giving me privacy/screen only from 12 feet and above. Height is one of the major concern for me while selecting one of them. Something grows taller,thicker and quicker.

    My options are :
    1. Hollies (Nellie or Savanna). I talked to couple of nurseries. They suggested me Nellie over savanna. They think, Nellie grows faster and thicker. Savanna is airy. So, it needs lot of pruning to make them thick and straight. But I haven't seen any one growing Nellie holli inside home.

    2. Looks for 'Emerald Green' (or other) arborvitae (thuja occidentalis). Please recommend me if there are other varieties in this section.

    Is it possible to grow Cherry Laurel as tall as 15 ft without growing wider. Do we have any disease issues with Photonia in Dallas.

    Thanks for the help.

  • carrie751
    10 years ago

    I have four red tip photinias that are over twenty years old, and I have never had any disease problem with them. I have never pruned them as I planted them next to a road for noise abatement. They are beautiful when they bloom in the Spring, and are evergreen, so I think you would like them.

  • whitecap
    9 years ago

    All hollies grow slowly. The Savannah is on my "Failure" list. They aren't very compact, and dislike clay soil. I have a Nellie Stevens, planted about 17 years ago. It's maybe 12 ft. tall, and broad. I don't think it's what you're looking for. I also have a mature magnolia. It drops tough, leathery leaves twice a year, in great abundance. Not sure your neighbor would appreciate that. It's also a slow grower.

    I see that redtip photinia has now joined its cousins, the waxleaf and Japanese ligustrums, on the "Invasives" list. Sure you don't want to talk about some less controversial like, say, "same-sex unions"? The Affordable Care Act, maybe? To make a clean breast of it, I have all three, and wouldn't take for them. My phoninias have flourished for over 25 years. I set out a couple of new ones, in the 3 gallon size, in October, and they've grown over a foot. There is nothing more widely planted in North San Antonio. I've not tried the Chinese variety, but was somewhat underimpressed with the specimens I saw at the Botanical Gardens. All these will easily reach 25 feet, and can be kept compact. Of the three I've mentioned, the Japanese ligustrum, aka glossy privet, is the toughest, but also the most controversial.

  • carrie751
    9 years ago

    I have not had one of the photinias spread either by roots or by seed and that is over 20 years of being inground. I have very good soil that would germinate them if this variety (and I don't know what it is) were invasive.

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the information carrie751 and whitecap. As of now my option are savanna holly or redtip photinia . I have visited two nurseries during weekend. I have seen 15'+ Savanna holly in tree form. They felt nice.

    Also inquired about Thuja. They suggested me not to go Thuja which might not survive Texas heat. I have seen Lowes selling Thuja occidentalis âÂÂSmaragdâ in 3 gallon sizes. One nursery recommended me Layland cypress.

    I am thinking of either Savanna holly or Redtip photonia.
    Please give me Nursery recommendations to check more about Thuja.
    Thanks

  • whitecap
    9 years ago

    You have some serious privacy issues, and your choices may be limited to the lesser of evils. The first thing I would do is go over to both the Shrub and Trees forums, on this site, and do a search on your selections. The results may not be encouraging. Then I would time how much direct light these plants will be receiving, and measure how much eventual width you can tolerate. Decide how much supplemental watering you are prepared to do, and investigate any applicable restrictions. Examine the texture of your soil. Then contact the nearest Texas A&M extension service, and discuss your options. I have obtained excellent advice from them, on several occasions, here in Bexar County.

  • bostedo: 8a tx-bp-dfw
    9 years ago

    Also inquired about Thuja. They suggested me not to go Thuja which might not survive Texas heat. I have seen Lowes selling Thuja occidentalis âÂÂSmaragdâ in 3 gallon sizes.

    ritholtz: Believe you got sound advice. 'Smaragd' is another name for the "Emerald Green" (or just "Emerald") cultivar I suggested previously. This and "Green Giant", a larger western hybrid (standishii x plicata), are two I've seen sold locally. Several that Monrovia rates for zone 8 are limited to Zone 7 on the warmest end by other growers, so clearly on the margin in north Texas - maybe an okay risk as an accent, but less so for a mass planted screen.

    These were common in our relatives' older Dallas neighborhoods, so they can grow well here... at least in irrigated lawn/bed spaces. However, none of the better local nurseries and gardening books I've since checked with seem to recommend any arborvitae cultivars these days, so I retract my earlier suggestion. Howard Garrett actually recommended against it in "Plants of the Metroplex" not because it won't grow, but because every insect known to man either eats or lives in this plant.

  • winterfell
    9 years ago

    Couple of more suggestions Carolina buckthorn, texas native very tough and adaptable does get pretty large in time. Interesting and under used.

    Arizona cypress blue ice or Carolina sapphire.

    Thuja orientalis or more accurately now, platycladus oritentalis (it has been renamed by botanists but still thuja or oritental arborvitae in the trade) NOT thuja Occidentalis , which is not well adapted for your climate and soil. And not the hybrid green giant.

    Several junipers will work. Chinese juniper has many desirable tall cultivars. I just bought an eastern red cedar (juniperus Virginiana Canaertii). Beautiful tree eventually quite large. Popular for screening back in the day. Here is a pic from web

    I hate photinia but mostly because its so widely used its boring.

  • winterfell
    9 years ago

    Quote "Several that Monrovia rates for zone 8 are limited to Zone 7 on the warmest end by other growers, so clearly on the margin in north Texas - maybe an okay risk as an accent, but less so for a mass planted screen."

    This advice contains a popular misconception. USDA hardiness zones have Nothing to do with a plants ability to withstand heat. Using it as a lower and upper range makes no sense, because it is only a measure of average annual low temperature. Austin texas is the same zone as Seattle Washington. Would you advise an Austin gardener to grow blue spruce, giant redwood, or fir trees? Of course not because not all zone 8's are the same. Austin and Seattle have completely different climates, even if average annual low temps are comparable.

    As for Howard Garret's advice against any thuja, I disagree to the extent platycladus orientalis is a "thuja" at least in name in the nursery trade, platycladus is a ridiculously durable adaptable plant in most of texas, not troubled by any insects here....

  • whitecap
    9 years ago

    When you see a plant being offered at places like Home Depot, but can't find mature specimens of it in your area, that is a warning.

    Ritholtz really needs something that doesn't taper towards the top. One of the original prospects, crape myrtle, may have more to recommend it than may, at first glance, appear. It is almost certain to do well, on this site, with minimal care. Some varieties will get 50' tall, and even give you vivid autumn color. Even in winter, the bare branches of mature trees would obstruct, to some extent, objectionable lines of sight.

  • winterfell
    9 years ago

    If the top is very tall is ok if it's tapered? Few conifers have spreading crowns. Or will be happy being pruned at arbitrary height every year. eastern red cedar pictured will get quite tall in time.

  • whitecap
    9 years ago

    Have you guys examined the pics Ritholtz posted with his inquiry on the Landscape Design Forum on 9-19-13? He's got a two story townhome going up directly behind him, and really needs dense foliage at a considerable elevation above the fence. The thread is Landscaping suggestion for improving privacy.

  • eibren
    9 years ago

    If you have the space, you might be better off just investing in the largest live oak you can manage, planting it near the back part of your lot, and giving it optimum care for maximum growth rate. Or a pecan tgree--whichever grows more quickly.

    :o/

  • whitecap
    9 years ago

    In the interest of full disclosure, I suppose I should own up to having an acute bias against arborvitaes, having been required, as a youngster, to mow around one, with a "push" mower.

    Ritholtz, what you really need to do is get an accurate measurement of the height required to give you some relief from the upper windows of that new townhome. I suspect it's going to take much more than 15 ft. to get the job done.

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for all the replies and sorry for not keeping up with my own thread. I did some rough cut measurement to get some idea of height required.

    Privacy fence will start helping me when it reaches 10'- 12'.
    I need it to grow to 15' to 16' to cover full length of the window. I have 4' to 5' elevation compared to town homes. Fence (6' height) covered up all of their first floor. I need something to grow for another 10' above my fence (total = 15') to cover most of the one corner window.

    I do not have any other window looking into my home except this corner window. My lot is 67' wide (corner).
    I have this window located 10' to 15' from my north-east corner point.

    Everything else is a slanted roof except for this 15' window/building area. Considering these town homes are towards my north side, I do not get any shade from them. I get lot of sun beaming on this area from east, from above my roof and from west.

    They do have little view into my living/kitchen area through windows. But I have a decent size patio. I can get some curtains and attach to patio time being. If I can grow something 15' wide and 15' tall, it can help me get privacy into yard, patio and inside home. It is their one of the kids bedroom in second floor. I have one window in my second floor which can overlook literally all of their windows in first floor and second floor. They are not even keeping it open most of the time.

    I visited some whole sale nurseries (landmark and southwest) on Sandy lake rd. I am thinking about more about Savanna hollies. It looks like a very common one among nurseries here, grown into 30g tree form. Most of them are grown up to 20'. Only thing is, they need to pruned to get thick and keep them in shape. Otherwise, i am going to take a chance with photonia or wax myrtle.


    This post was edited by ritholtz on Tue, Apr 15, 14 at 14:18

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I am still not decided on what to plant. Considering I need to have a hedge up to 15 feet tall, I can give up that part of my back yard space (10' X 15'). So far I am only seeing Green giant, Layland cypress and Magnolia trees in stores. Lot of them are recommending Layland cypress in Dallas. Please let me know if it is easy to grow wax myrtle.
    I can plant it 4-6' from fence and try growing them like tree. Please help.
    Thanks,

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I have noticed two kinds of Magnolia trees. One with larger leafs and another one with denser and smaller leafs. People planting them even side of the home within very small area. Please let me know exact name for these Magnolia's. I am thinking about putting 2 magnolia tress and done with it. Please let me know.
    Thanks

  • enjoyingnature
    9 years ago

    I have read over and over that Wax Myrtle will grow very well in North Texas area. I just don't like the tree but may have to go with it because it is so hardy and "fail proof." A local nursery also recommended Japanese Yew - 1.5 feet a year and get the height you need Podocarpus macrophyllus. They recommended the Red Tip Photina which was surprising. Also, I've looked at a lot of magnolias and decided they don't give the privacy I want. You could also plant one in front of the other to fill in the holes. Spartan Junipers grow 12-15 feet and are drought resistant, cold resistant, and do well in clay soil.

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks enjoyingnature for information. I have visited a shopping area where they planted multiple Wax Myrtle trees. There are between 10'-15' height. They are spreading every direction except straight. Keeping them relatively straight seems to be not possible.

    There is a home with swimming pool in our area. They planted Leyland cypress around backyard fence in order to give privacy to pool. They are looking nice and tall. They started filling in the gaps. Leyland cypress is recommended here a lot instead of Green giant.
    Is it a good plant? Is it possible to keep it in check by pruning once in a while. I am thinking of getting 2 off them planted 5'-6' from fence. Once they reach 15' - 20', I can get some one to trim from top and sides to keep it in check. Please let me know.

    Thanks,

  • enjoyingnature
    9 years ago

    Hi Ritholtz -

    Leylands are beautiful trees.
    If you want to trim them that short, they may be more prone to disease over time. It's better to find a plant that you can prune a bit closer to it's mature height. Maybe other can weigh in on this? Neil Sperry says never to "top" a tree. Because I read recently that Neil Sperry (or Howard Garrett) no longer recommends Leyland Cypress for Texas, I marked it off of my consideration list (arborvitae's are prone to a lot of insects?). Because of that, I am focusing more on junipers. You can google evergreen plant nursery for dimensions, "mature" rate, etc... If you are interested, I would do some further research. Last night I was looking at some videos of Wax Myrtle on youtube. I recommend checking the videos and google "wax myrtle trees" images. Yes, they do need to be pruned and trained as a tree (some people want them to grow more as a shrub). They take really well to pruning so it is possible to make them look like a nice tree. I found some really nice ones. Right now, I'm looking at the Majestic Beauty Indian Hawthorne; It grows to the right dimensions, is evergreen, drought tolerant. I would have to find a larger size since it is only moderate growing... Here's what I'm doing - a combination of spartan juniper, Nellie Steven's Holly, Blue Point Juniper, Majestic Beauty Indian Hawthorne, and Cleveland Pear (hardier version of the Bradford Pear - a bit larger and still very dense). I know some people hate the pears but I think they are "well-groomed" and provide good density. Cleveland is less prone to blowing over in an ice storm. Also, according to Neil Sperry, they have a moderate lifespan (25-50 years) and fast growing. In all these trees, I'm taking into consideration - hardiness, drought resistance, density (for privacy) and beauty. I've been reading Neil Sperry's gardening book to help narrow down choices; I recommend it! Hope you can find some answers!

  • enjoyingnature
    9 years ago

    If you do anymore research on Leyland's and find out anything positive, please let me know. thanks

  • enjoyingnature
    9 years ago

    This juniper - Juniperus virginiana 'Oklahoma Silver'
    Looks similar to leyland cypress except that it's blue and not quite as tall. Insect resistant

  • Lin barkingdogwoods
    9 years ago

    Hi there - the magnolias you're asking about may be 'Little Gem' or 'Teddy Bear'. From what I've read, 'Little Gem' might be better suited as it tops out at about 20' (vs. 26' for Teddy Bear).

    You can see info on both at the site in the link below...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Litte Gem magnolia

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi enjoyingnature,
    Thanks for the all the information. Please keep me updated if any interesting plant comes up in your reserach. As of now, there are nice crepe myrtles in our area which can do job for me. I am thinking of something like evergreen crepe myrtle. I am fine to loose bit of space in this corner of the lot (10' x 15'). I can plant multiple of them (2-3 italian cypress plants near the fence and a wax myrtle in tree form inside the lot). As of now my options are shrinked down to wax myrtle and red tip photinia.

    So far I did talk to two house owner who have Leyland cypress. None of them gave my any bad feedback. I will try to take pictures and post it here. They are around 15' height as of now with dense foliage. According to store listing slip, they grew upto 30' tall and 8' wide. Do they get taller than 30' eventually. My neighbor who has similar situation is also planning to go with Leyland cypress.

    Thanks,

    This post was edited by ritholtz on Fri, Oct 24, 14 at 1:29

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi barkingdogwoods,
    Thanks for the link about little gem magnolia link. I will check it out.

  • enjoyingnature
    9 years ago

    Thanks. I did not know there were evergreen crape myrtles. Can you tell me which ones you are considering?

  • ritholtz
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi enjoyingnature,
    I do not know any evergreen crepe myrtles. I am also wondering if there are some. But In my area (DFW), crepe myrtles are still green and thick. Looks like they are green for most part of the year (9 months). When spring starts, they are the first ones to become green and thick. Ones with white flowers are really nice in my area.

    As of now, I am not able to decide anything. I am still thinking about Italian cypress, wax myrtle and photinia.

    Thanks

  • enjoyingnature
    9 years ago

    Thanks. I did not know there were evergreen crape myrtles. Can you tell me which ones you are considering?

  • Carla
    9 years ago

    What about clumping bamboo? I've seen some really stunning ones that would definitely grow that tall. You have to get the clumping ones, NOT the running ones, though.

    Carla

    Here is a link that might be useful: Texas bamboo society