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maxlife92

First time garden- not producing. advice?

maxlife92
11 years ago

I planted starter plants (tomato, cucumber, and yellow squash) as well as seeds (Kabocha winter squash and carrots) around April 20th. I have no produced one single fruit! I have been watering with soaker hoses and just started with the sprinkler. I usually watered an hour soaker hose a day. But temperatures are reaching mid 90's now. Here are some pictures. Please let me know if you see what the issue is!

I was looking forward to having some veggies at this point:(

This is where the garden is placed ( now how soil,plants, and fence)

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Summer squash (only two have flowers)

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Summer squash stem..is that normal?

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Tallest tomato plant ( none have flowers!)

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While some tomatoes are still only yay tall...

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Cucumbers(some leaves below) are flowering though...is it an infestation?

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Kabocha (C Maxima Winter Squash).. still tiny sprouts!!?

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Upclose kabocha..each sprout has a few discolored bottom leaves?

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Comments (20)

  • tx_ag_95
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The first question that comes to mind is 'How much sun do the beds get?' because if they're not getting enough sun they'll just sit there. The second question is 'Have you fertilized the plants?' followed by 'How?'.

    I haven't had any luck growing squash and very little with cucumbers. I've never tried carrots but suspect you started too late for them as they're supposed to be planted (seeds) in the first half of February for North Texas, so I'd guess sometime in January for South Texas. That could also be part of your problem with the transplants. I'm north of Dallas and I put my tomatoes in the garden around the same time you did...but they'd been in quart/half-gallon pots for about a month before that, growing their roots and getting a head start on the heat.

    Provided the beds get enough sunlight, I'd probably vote to scrap these plants and start over for a fall crop. I know, it hurts. But, gardening is a trial-and-error process that takes a lot of mistakes to figure out just what works for you and your yard. Most veggies want at least 6-8 hours of sun a day. Typically, especially in Texas, they prefer that it be towards the start of the day so they don't have to deal with the hot afternoon sun very long. Tomatoes are water hogs, they need a goodly amount of water when they're growing AND when they're growing fruit, the latter needs to be consistent or the fruit will split. As I'm only now realizing, veggies also need added fertilizer to do their best. My potted plants and landscape plants may be able to do just fine without a lot of extra 'food', but veggies need food to produce food for us.

    The final question I have is more of a suggestion. Talk to the County Agriculture Extension Agency, I've included a link to Jerry Parson's Plant Answers website. I grew up watching his segments on the evening news in San Antonio and do my best to translate his advice to the DFW area. Your county Ag Extension Agency and/or Master Gardeners should have a list of vegetable varieties for your area, those are the ones you should start with as they'll produce the best for you. As for tomatoes, I highly suggest leaning towards cherry tomatoes, they'll produce better than the larger ones. In the 30+ years I've been paying attention to home grown tomatoes, I've never had any real luck with slicing tomatoes. I think we just get too hot too fast for them.

    Good luck and don't give up!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Plant Answers

  • dogwind
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's another Ag who agrees with tx_ag_95. But I will add that your soaker hose is probably not doing a good job, and your plants may not be getting enough water. Soaker hoses aren't good for the raised bed because the water is probably not getting the entire root zone of the plants wet. Wet and dry areas are stunting growth and in your area, that means failure. What is your bagged bedding mix made from? You should also consider mulching and fertilizing

  • sfmathews
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree wit the above two posters. In addition, when temps consistently stay above 90, you won't get much production from tomatoes and cukes. You should probably pull those out and perhaps start something that likes heat, like southern peas, okra or melon. Or wait a few more weeks and replant the tomatoes and hope for a fall harvest. Tomatoes generally do better in the fall anyway, at least for me.
    And yes, definitely put down mulch to conserve moisture and keep the soil temps cooler.
    Good luck!

  • maxlife92
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    tx_ag_95- The beds get full sun all morning(tree is on the west side), as well as partial sun in the afternoon/evening. I originally did not fertilize the plants because the living-organic soil/compost/worm casting mix they are in is such good quality, the ladies at the health food store (where they sell it) told me I probably wouldn't need any. I did however just buy some of the organic liquid fertilizer and sprayed the plants with it twice now (until the leaves were dripping).
    I realized carrots are supposed to be grown fall/winter, however, i still question this because they are selling them at the local farmers market. Thank you for your suggestion and link, I will be sure to check it out!

    dogwind- I have noticed with the soaker hoses that only the area right beneath the hose is wet, and so it seems inconsistant..so back to the sprinkler? these links show the makeup of the mix inside the beds:(compost,soil, worm castings)
    soil:
    http://www.ladybugbrand.com/products/Hill-Country-Garden-Soil.asp

    The compost:
    http://www.ladybugbrand.com/products/Revitalizer-Compost.asp

    As well as the worm castings:
    http://www.ladybugbrand.com/products/Earth-Worm-Castings.asp

    sfmathews- Thank you for your input. However, being my first time gardening I am unfirmiliar with the mulching technique. I am doing my garden purely organic as well, i dont know if that is a factor to using mulch or not.

    I have posted on other forums such as the Vegtable and Organic forums and have had several people mentioning the tree as an issue. Some say the roots are absorbing all of the nutrients and water. What do yall think?
    Also had several people say the three layers of cardboard beneath the soil (above the native) is not decomposing, therefore the roots are not able to penetrate and grow. Thoughts?

    Thanks so much!

  • carrie751
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It looks like a water issue to me..........the soil looks very dry. Have you dug down to see if it is moist to the roots??

  • tx_ag_95
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I try very hard to go organic, too, and one of the things "they" recommend IS mulching, preferably with native tree trimmings, as it helps keep the roots cool in the summer & warm in the winter and keeps the moisture in the soil. It's probably water then, if the water's not moving far from the hoses. I haven't had a problem with the soaker hoses not watering the entire bed, but mine are covered with mulch and I water for a very long time at a slow drip.

    I doubt the cardboard's the problem unless you don't have enough soil on top of it. It will decompose, eventually, but you want it to block whatever grasses you had growing in that spot. And the raised bed will give the vegetables the space they need to grow without running into the tree roots. Although, having them under the tree's dripline might impair the tree...they don't like having their roots covered like that.

    As for fertilizer, I'm sure the soil you got has enough nutrients for the plants to grow, but there may not be enough for them to produce well. That's a lesson I'm just now learning. :)

  • optimistique
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the issue is watering. I too learned that soaker hoses are not adequate enough for growing veggies. We switched to dripline with emiters and it has done wonders...got us through last year's drought without a hitch.

    Also check that the garden is getting a good unfiltered 8 hours of sun per day. If not, that could also explain some of its slow growth.

  • sfmathews
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would echo the first paragraph by tx_ag_95. Mulching isn't hard. I use whatever I have on hand. I will save bags of leaves from the fall and then use them to mulch in the spring. But grass clippings that haven't been exposed to herbicides, cardboard, newspaper, hardwood bark mulch all would work. I will use a combination of the above if I don't have enough. All of these can be part of an organic program and will break down to add to the soil.
    Ideally, mulch should be 3-4" deep. It should be mounded evenly around the entire bed, and close to and under the plants,but not actually touching the stem of the plant. It does keep the soil cooler, keeps weeding down, and helps to conserve moisture, which means your plants are less stressed, especially during extreme heat and drought.
    I hope this clears up some of your mulching questions!
    Good luck!
    Susan

  • maxlife92
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I usually check the soil everyday to make sure that when I stick my finger about an inch deep there is always some moisture. I have been watering on average with the soaker hoses AM and PM for about 30 minutes each time, on high. Even after 45 minutes the water has poured out from under neath the beds and into the lawn. How much do you guys reccomend I water? Should I go back and try using the sprinkler again? The sprinkler soaked the beds much more consistantly but everyone warns that because of molding.

    I am trying to narrow down the problem here. On this forum you guys think it is more of a watering issue, while the organic forum believes it is the 3 layer cardboard on the bottom of the beds. What do yall think?

  • carrie751
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know how much soil you have on top of the cardboard, but the cardboard was never an issue with our raised beds. We grew a wonderful vegetable garden in it the first year with absolutely no problem, but I am a hands on "waterer" so that I know every plant has sufficient moisture. It takes a little longer, but works better for me.

  • Lin barkingdogwoods
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think 30 minutes twice a day with a soaker is a good watering strategy.

    You want the roots to go deep, so you want to water deeply and infrequently - ideally you want the water to go all the way to the sub-surface water table, then as it dries from the top down the roots will grow away from the dry edge and follow the water deeper into the soil.

    I water my (organic) veggie garden with an overhead sprinkler about an hour once a week (or twice every 10 days if there's been no rain). Even with my sugar sand that's been amended with composted manure, that saturates the beds and keeps my gardens going.

    This is my first year for my veggies here, and the squach have been producing like mad. I got the beds prepared the first weeks of March and started planting mid-March.

  • jardineratx
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't have a vegetable garden, but I have found that soaker hoses normally don't provide enough moisture if any or all of the following conditions exist:
    a. The hose is more than a few inches from the plant
    b. The soil has been allowed to dry significantly and the soaker hose is used for too short a time
    c. The temps are high and there is no mulch to prevent the soil from heating up and drying out, particularly in young plants trying to survive high temps.
    I have had great success using soaker hoses, but only when I keep a, b,and c in mind.
    Molly

  • maxlife92
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Update*

    Okay, so- I had a neighbor gardener who actually built the beds for me come out and take a look. He was a little bit stumped until I told him about the three layers of cardboard. And then he reached down 11in into the soil-pure slop.

    He said that the plants were trapped and had no oxygen because there was no drainage.

    Our game plan:
    -Take out plants and put them into temporary pots.
    -Get a yard worker to come out and push over the soil, section by section, and remove the cardboard. And put the soil back in place.
    -Replant my stunted plants with some sort of "rock" supplement.I forget the name.
    -Build a well around each plant
    -Hand water every morning
    -Supplement every 2-4wks with "Hasta Gro Plant Food"

    Sound good?

  • maxlife92
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Update*

    Okay, so- I had a neighbor gardener who actually built the beds for me come out and take a look. He was a little bit stumped until I told him about the three layers of cardboard. And then he reached down 11in into the soil-pure slop.

    He said that the plants were trapped and had no oxygen because there was no drainage.

    Our game plan:
    -Take out plants and put them into temporary pots.
    -Get a yard worker to come out and push over the soil, section by section, and remove the cardboard. And put the soil back in place.
    -Replant my stunted plants with some sort of "rock" supplement.I forget the name.
    -Build a well around each plant
    -Hand water every morning
    -Supplement every 2-4wks with "Hasta Gro Plant Food"

    Sound good?

  • Bryan Scott
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hand water every morning?- NO. Water beds every three days. After getting beds set up again with plants, add a mulch layer to help with water conservation and keep soil from drying out. I use hay in my beds, but just about any form of mulch will help out. Just don't use anything that has been exposed to toxic chemicals (chemically treated lawn grass clippings, rubber mulch, mulch that has been died for color, ect).

    About your veggies- I agree in switching to more of a summer crop. Okra and peppers are a couple heat-loving plants and will yield quite a bit of food.

  • maxlife92
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hm, I wonder why he gets great results with watering every morning. You may be right though. The soil is still drenched after this issue, I am letting it dry out for a couple of days. All of the cardboard was removed today!:)

    That was my next question-mulch. Is an inch or two okay? I found some organic cedar mulch and organic pine mulch in our garden shed- i could by some more and use this. Would that be okay? Iwould hate to cause another issue. Does it retain too much moisture?

  • Bryan Scott
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Without knowing his setup and dirt content, he very well could be getting great results. My guess is that his soil is draining too quickly...or quickly enough to warrant that frequent of a watering schedule. If that is the case then I am willing to bet he is having to fertilize frequently too due to the nutrients being washed out of the soil. Again, just a guess.

    For your vegetables, you want moist, but well drained soil. If your beds are still waterlogged after a couple days of not watering then you have a drainage problem with your soil. There are organic (read "non-toxic") soil amendments you can purchase at your local nursery to help this. However, I suspect you are just over-watering. As you are doing, let the beds dry out and then replant. Your neighbor's plan suggest building "wells" around your plants. This is good if your soil drains too fast, as it helps direct water straight to the roots of the plants. If your soil is not draining fast, then in my opinion the wells are not necessary.

    About the mulch, knowing I use hay, I pile up about 6 inches of hay in my beds. So, a couple three inches of mulch should do fine. I would start on the smaller scale and see how fast your soil dries out with backing of the watering. You want the soil moist, but not bone dry, and not sopping wet. Keep the mulch away from the base of your plants by a couple inches minimum. For the mulch type, my rule of thumb is to not use anything that has been treated with chemicals/pesticides, as over time those chemical remnants will leach out of the mulch and into your soil where your plants will suck it up with the water and it could be present in your vegetables.

    My last thought about your setup is about pollination. I noticed that some of your plants have flowers on it. Have you noticed any pollinators around the beds? Bees are the first and usually the best pollinators. If not, this is another contributing factor to not bearing any fruit. Your plants should have male and female flowers on it, but sometimes that is not always the case. For example, look up pollination of a watermelon vine. There is a female flower (with a tiny watermelon) and a male flower (without). The pollen from the male flower has to be rubbed into the pollen of the female flower and if nature takes it's course, the tiny watermelon swells and then it takes off growing. Yeah, just like a human. So, you might look at planting some flowers mixed in to attract pollinating insects and such. Otherwise, you might have to do what I had to do with a couple watermelons- give them a "helping hand" :o)

    Anyways, I'm not an expert in any way, shape, or form. This is just based on my experience and also growing up helping an elderly neighbor who was a retired horticulturalist for Travis County. I say "was" in that he has passed on. But his half-acre garden produced a ton of vegetables all year long.

    Keep posting your progress- pics, story, ect. There are plenty of people on here that have had different experiences and tried different things to have successful gardens. You should also look at the square foot garden forum of the website. Many different ideas in there too.

  • maxlife92
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you so much beacivil1! I appreciate your help.

    I don't know if you read all of the posts, but the reason my soil is so wet right now is because for 2 or so months I have had 3 layers of cardboard underneath the 11 inches of soil/compost which held in all of the water, causing the bottom layer of my beds to turn to muck. Sunday-we had rain(shocking)..then all of the cardboard was removed yesterday, and in the process the soil was turned over and mixed up quite a bit.

    I have some cedar and pine mulch in the garden shed that says "naturally organic", I don't know what that really entails though. And I don't know how good that type is for raised beds, it is like wood chips. I don't know how well my beds drain yet since the removal of the cardboard. Do I just base this on how offten they get dry with the watering? Im so afraid to over water now! But I think it will be easier starting out with just handwatering vs the soaker hoses.

    I thought about the pollination of the flowers being a problem.We have SO many insects out here- i never thought that could be it. But you would think with all of the flowers-some would have atleast started to produce fruit even in the condition with the cardboard stunting the growth. But hey, what do i know. I guess I will just keep and eye out for that once i replant them all, and maybe help some out anyway.

    Another question I had though- the guy who ripped up all of the cardboard for me said that there were still some weeds that didn't die in the two months period. Weeds meaning grass and stuff, i guess. Most of it looked to be all wiped out to me. But could that really effect anything, or should I have him come remove it all? I mean, when you plant directly into native soil you cant avoid ALL grass and weeds anyway, right?

    I feel he may just be looking for an excuse to make some more money and come out here again.

  • ju1234
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am a new gardener too. I made some mistakes and my garden is just now taking off. I planted most things in early April to end of April and some in early May. I already harvested a few zucchinis, tomatos and egg plants and peppers but not much to talk about. Cucumbers and squashes are just now starting to fruit.

    I have raised bed too with soil mix about 12-14 inches highabove the ground. I don't know how your soil is, in south dallas where i am, it is pure rock. 3-6 inches of dirt and then rock. So, i decided to do raised beds but dug the ground underneath. So i have at least 18-20 inches of dirt.

    I started out in 3 gallon containers but soon realized that they are not big enough so moved the plants to ground. Had few hiccups along the way. You talked about adding "ground up rock" to the soil. If you are in north dallas, your soil is perhaps alkaline. Adding rock is going to make it more alkaline. I had problem with potash deficit, leaf edge burn. So I added potash. Then I see calcium deficit, bloom end rot. I read up on it. Too much potash was making calcium unavailble to plants. So, I am doing foliar application of calcium chloride. So far it has been a yoyo.

    Looking at your raised beds in pictures, looks like 8-9 inch high boards, several inches of wood is showing on top, which means only about 6" dirt? Not anywhere close to enough. When i did container planting, dirt was 12" deep, still not enough. The roots grow 3-4 feet deep. If you put cardboard underneath then you have a total block at the ground level.

    Dig up the ground underneath and then put your soil mix over it or incorporate it in the ground dirt. Dig up so you have at least 1 foot of good soil

    I talked to the extension officer, he told me to use nothing else but sandy loam plus compost in equal amounts, no peat moss, no manure, no top soil. So, when i redo the beds, i am going to do that.

    Watering I think is the easiest part of the whole gardening thing. You can easily fix that anytime, it is the other stuff.

    Good luck.

  • maxlife92
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The boards are actually 1ft and have 11in of soil. I removed the cardboard so now worries about that.

    The rock stuff is phosphate.just bought it today! I am going to put a handful in each hole I plant. My neighbor uses it and he lives in the area obviously, so im sure he knows it works. The ground is pretty hard underneath the bagged soil but i would imagine that the roots will penetrate as they would in nature.

    I also use half and half organic compost and , as well as worm castings.

    My next thing to figure out is what mulch to use..