Janie, you're so right about the ARE. I should've listened to you when you said it wasn't like it used to be.

shipp53,I just looked at Blue Moons Nursery and it looks great. I really want to go there to pick blueberries one day.

It looks like a nice place too.
Thanks for sharing.

Angie, that's a shame about the weeds. There's one nursery by me that has lots of weeds in the plants but sometimes you luck out and get a clematis or other plants that pop up in the pot free. Now that's fun.

It's always been beautiful and well cared for when I've visited the ARE in Brenham. The only thing I can think of is that with business being down all over and so many small businesses closing because of sales being low and others struggling to stay open perhaps ARE doesn't have the funds to hire enough employees to keep up with everything -- the rains having fostered more weeds and blackspot than usual. I dunno ... just a guess.

I'm sure there are times when it looked better and maybe we just caught it at a bad time.

I also could've expected too much from it.

One thing for sure, it did not look like the picutres they had posted a while back.

I went to the San Antonio ARE on Mother's Day and did not find a single rose that I wanted to buy. And trust me I was just looking for an excuse but all the roses looked really ratty. The set up of the gardens was lovely but none of the roses looked like something one would want to buy. They looked really spent and any blooms that were there were teensie tiny. My mil has tiers of roses so my dh is used to seeing large gorgeous happy roses (even though he doesn't garden at all) and he was looking around kinda like, where are all the real roses? I know lots of people on the rose forums do mail order through them and are very happy with what they get but dang, in real like it's like Michael Jackson without all the makeup. Just not all that.

ARE can't afford to hire help?

HA! they have made more than their share. The recognition and assistance they have gotten from TAMU and many of the hort guys there is worth millions!

I have never been to SA's ARE, and I would go if I thought it worth my time. Thanks for the heads-up.

Janie

This probably isn't going to help rose sales at ARE or anywhere else, but I've had to face the fact that to keep roses looking good all the time in my climate takes a LOT of work. I used to have over 150 roses, now I am down to about 30 or less having kept only the more disease resistant cultivars.

In wet years like this they need to be sprayed with fungacide every two weeks for BS and other foliage diseases and with all this rain weeds can grow up in a week in fertile soil. ARE doesn't spray except with sea weed which they say gives the roses stamina through the tough summers we have.

Now California's climate is a different matter. I think many of us got hooked on roses seeing pictures of how well they grow there. After my visits to California I come home thinking that -- heck, anybody can grow pretty healthy roses in California.

I am resigned now to enjoy the roses in the spring and letting them rest in the summer. I let them rest by not deadheading and letting them form their seeds. This slows their growth, also I let them rest by not feeding through the summer which means I don't have to water them as much and that also slows their growth. I cut them back some about the end of August and feed a little and they give me some fall blooms.

Right now they some have black spot, but those leaves will drop and they will put on more leaves that are smaller and tougher due in the heat.

ARE in San Antonio looked great at the end of May this year. I haven't been out there since I took these pictures:

Here is a link that might be useful: ARE in April ...

I meant it looked good the end of April ... I posted the pictures the first of May

Last time I slammed ARE on this board a few years back I got slammed back. There were many die hard fans. I never went back again. The help were either lazy or rude. The bees made looking around impossible. The selection was great.That was about it. I did go to ARE in San Antonio. MUCH nicer, smaller selection.RCW on 249 has a great Rose selection. I'll look there. Joshua's Natives has great small type antique roses.

Roselee, I'm talking about the ARE in Brenham. You posted pics. of the ARE in San Antonio. They may be a lot better gardens in San Antonio.
I don't want to slam any gardens espeically one that everyone likes so much but I also don't want anyone to drive really far and be disappionted.

That's the only reason I posted this.

The Zilker Botanical Gardens in Austin did not let me down at all. They were beautiful and well maintained with have lots to see.

Rosalee I was obviously there a month too late because by May 20th nothing and I mean nothing looked anything like those pictures. It was really nice pleasant weather in May too, nothing like we've had this month! I recognize where those pictures were taken but by the end of May it was looking pretty darn war torn out there. Makes you wonder how people can get things like hybrid teas to grow here in sw Texas.

I live pretty close to the ARE in Independence/Brenham so I get there several times a year.Early this spring(beginning of march) I was there and the plants looked good, but they were already some varieties that were sold out.They had tons of perennials and herbs.No one seemed to be walking around to help people, but then I knew what I was looking for.

I was there at the end of March for a wedding. We had tons of rain the previous days and the grounds were gorgeous.We walked around before the cermony and the grounds had plenty of people pulling wagons loaded with plants.

I went the middle of May. There seemed to be a lot of bare spaces where roses should be but were apparently sold out.I think that is the end of their shipping season and everything seemed to need to be restocked.I got a rose i wanted and it's doing well. It's too hot to plant now so I won't be back until the fall.
With it being a cottage garden kind of look I did see some weeds around the extensive plantings, but it still looks pretty to me. As far as the roses goes, I've been happy when I've bought one there, but have also been disappointed when things were already gone. But I couldn't get them elsewhere so shrugged my shoulders and put them on my"next time" list....
I've heard elsewhere that the shipping increases are affecting many mail order places. i wonder if this has anything to do with staffing.Staff will always be the number one expense of a company and if costs go up in one area, maybe they have to cut down in another..

I was at ARE in Brenham/Independence about 5 years ago, and it was incredibly beautiful. I am sorry to hear it has gone downhill. I purchase their antique roses locally in Austin at either Natural Gardener or Barton Springs Nursery, and have been very happy with the plants.

I ordered several roses from ARE a couple years ago and did not notice any weeds growing under them after they were planted. I have never been there - only mail ordered from them. It is a shame they can't keep their demonstration gardens looking decent. I think keeping a garden area at a nursery really helps sell the plants because people can see how they look in the ground under normal growing conditions and not just in containers.

I have been to Chamblee's Rose Nursery in Tyler and it is well kept. I have also been to Blue Moon in Chandler and absolutely love that place. I can't go there without buying something. I usually go when I visit my dad who lives in a nearby town.

I have ordered from them via mail many, many times and have never been sorry. Most of their business is mail-order, I think, and they do it really well. I have visited both locations each once, both in the fall, and they looked good, but not perfect. There were weeds, and some roses could have used a pruning, but I appreciated that I got to see how each variety would do in the ground and not fussed over.

I think that everyone needs to understand two things about them: First, they carry old garden roses, many of which have much smaller and duller colored blooms. They don't always look like what you think they will look like after seeing close-ups of them in the catalog or online. Most of them just don't look like the big, beautiful blooms of the hybrid teas, though some certainly do. But, these old varieties are extremely tough, so even after a wet spring full of bs or a blazing hot, dry summer, they will bounce back and look good again when the weather is better. And second, they don't spray chemicals. BS in a wet spring is just going to happen. And, with the size of the grounds, weeds are going to be there, too, if not zapped with poison. Personally, I can overlook these things, but maybe I am biased because it reminds me of my own yard! I have about 25 roses, all varieties that they carry, and a few weeks ago I had never seen them look so shabby. Now that we are seeing the sun again, they are coming back just fine. But the weeds! I don't spray anything but vinegar, but I am seriously considering Round-up because I can't keep up this year! Augh!

Anyway, I'm sorry you were let down, but I hope that you consider ordering roses from them in the future. They provide us with such a service of preserving the old antiques that could have been lost forever.

I think I'll stick with my Earth Kind Roses. They always look good and I never have to spray or mess with them.

Some things can not be helped as far as looking bad but they really should prune the roses.

I know they make enough money to keep people on hand to prune and weed the beds. We saw the wholesale part of ARE and it went on forever. That place is huge. They must sell lots of roses and are doing very well.

Mom and I went in May. We don't have the 'before' to compare it to and thought it was great and want to go back next year (when is the best blooming time). I did notice all the things yall did, but was just wowed by everything else-especially the Peter Rabbit garden-which I want to re-create in my picket fence yard:). Sooo, what if EACH of us (and anyone else you know that saw need for improvement) contacted ARE and commented? We are the consumer and our imput is important! Then maybe they'd step it up a notch (or two:) and when mom and me go next year we can really feast! CJ

Interestingly people gather once or twice a year at another rose mail order company with a display garden that is not even open every day of the year to help them clean up their grounds and making a big potluck party out of it. They call it Vintage Dirt Day.

Pictures of Vintage Gardens:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesant/msg0512223128030.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Vintage Dirt Day

nccmama, we have a native texas place here (Westons) that has a totally organic garden(like my own).No pestacides not even the organic stuff. They have LOTS of roses and flowers that look good.
I'm glad ARE is preserving old roses. I really wasn't talking too much about the Bspot.( That can be controlled very inexpensively with baking soda I understand tho.)
The ARE in Brennam is lacking in basic maintenance. 4-5 ft weeds over running the plants,roses that just need some basic pruning, and a bit of TLC! I'm glad they do mail order! Looking at these sturdy, long lasting roses full of weeds and unpruned paints a very unflattering picture of what they really look like!
BTW, before you go on to round up have you tried the 20%horticultural vinager? It's very strong and you must be very careful using it tho! PJ

Yikes! What a tough crowd
I have not been to ARE. But as I read these messages I can't help but feel for them.

I have been to Weston's in FW and been very disappointed on 2 occasions: one, early in spring after lots of rain and it seemed that nothing was pruned or blooming, another time in the heat when I wondered how they could dare to sell those poor roses that spent the summer on a gavel lot and were now cut down to tiny stubs. It seemed that the staff was grumpy too. I decided it was all heat related...including my perception

I do understand that I chose times that weren't the best and other times they have been lovely, the staff friendly and helpful and I'll go back if I'm in the area.

I've been to Tyler rose gardens twice. Once jaw dropping gorgeous, the other time pitiful after a wet fall.

I just wanted to add this, when reading the list of posts they seem so harsh and I'm not sure if y'all realize that. Email is not the warmest medium.

my apologies if I overstepped here, not the intention.

I'm sure ARE has some times when it looks just gorgeous and some times when it's not looking good as well as Weston Gardens and maybe next time I come back it'll be beautiful but I was disappointed in my first visit there.

No one has to agree with me. This is just my opinion of my first visit. Don't take it personal.

I don't think anyone is being over-critical of your opinion, Carolann. I think we would all like to see the ARE do a better job of using their demonstration gardens as a means to promote their roses and as you pointed out, it just wasn't happening with the tall weeds and unpruned roses. And, I don't think it is a bad thing to contact them and send a link to this forum to let them know. It is just good business to want a place like this do well to keep the legacy of those old garden roses around.

I was going to respond to cynthianovak's post about opinions here being too harsh when I realized that my response would probably be in tune with the same thing I was going to say about her's, i.e. I think she was overly harsh in criticizing the other posters in this thread. Then I realized, how is my saying that any different than what she said, LOL!

In any event, I REALLY appreciate those who have been willing to take the time to voice opinions both ways. The emporium is a bit of a drive for me. I have been twice and would prefer not to take the time to drive up there if it isn't going to be at its optimum.

So thanks to this thread, I think I will plan not to visit after serious rain (DUH, maybe obvious to others but I think I have been a bit naive thinking a professional nursery should be able to handle this, maybe not especially when their sales probably depend mostly on catalog/web...) and also I think because it is a bit out of the way, I will stick to going up in the Spring when they have their big EVENT, I bet they really spruce up for that. Once a year is enough for me though I would prefer going in the Fall. I'll check their calendar in any event before I go.

One last after thought, if the Emporium has truly decided to reduce maintenance since they are catalog, this may be another sign of the trend of the "disappearing store front". Scares me.

elphaba
you make a good point about my post and are so right, I was critical. I have a deep place in my heart for folks who take on the nursery business. I can only imagine what happens to them with the capricious nature of our weather.

again, you are right, I was intending to be compassionate to them, but was perhaps too critical.

Thank you Roselee, I love your positive attitude
jolana

my apologies to all
Carolann called it right when she said I was being too sensitive. It's a hormonally challenged day and I should be banned from hitting the send key

ROFL roselee!!!! Is that what my ex-dh's,ex girlfriend was doing? I thought she was trying to block out the memory of having dated the idiot! LOL!PJ

Roselee, that's cute.

Cynthia, your apologies are not necessary.
You didn't say anything wrong.

I never dreamed so many people would care about my opinion of an online rose nursery unless they had stock in it or owned it. lol
Maybe I opened up a can of worms and didn't even realize it.

Just another day in the neighborhood. lol

I thought you all had some very good comments here that needed to be passed along to Mike Shoup. I sent him the link to this thread and here is how he responded:

"I agree! The comments that I have read regarding the condition of our Brenham display gardens with respect to weeds and inventory are not unfounded. As beautiful as the garden were in April, I regret that I must agree that they look unkempt now. Thank you for making me acutely aware. I must remember to look at my gardens as if I'm seeing them for the first time everyday I visit them. I got too complacent and the gardens suffered.
Customer feedback, both positive and negative, is always appreciated. (Granted, I like the positive better!)"

MIKE SHOUP, Owner ARE

I have read with interest the postings on the subject of ARE. If you are actually interested in "antique" roses, you must understand that several of the species are not really repeat bloomers but rather have a major blooming in the spring. Unlike hybrid teas, several of these roses are pruned AFTER they bloom in the spring if at all.

The classification of roses basically can be divided by wild roses, old graden roses and modern roses. Mose roses in the wild and old garden classifications are once a year bloomers. Also, many of them have single petaled flowers which look nothing like the modern hybrid tea. I also have some modern roses that have been out of patent for 60 years or longer. An example is Chrysler Imperial which was the AARS winner in 1952. It has been in one of my gardens since 1969 and blooms constantly.

Now, regarding ARE outside of Brenham, I have been there a couple of times. They mainly cater to mail order and supplying nurseries such as Redentas and Weston, so the vast majority of their customers never see the place. Just some thoughts.

The Vintage Rosary in Needville. The grounds are fabulous. Lots of roses planted, places to picnic. I've been there in the middle of summer and the dead of winter & it always looks great. Very helpful staff. Great plants. Decent prices. AND as a bonus there is a farmers market right next door every Thursday. AND they have the coolest signs for your roses! Pretty much every antique rose they have a sign for. AND they guarantee their roses. I bought one, it died and 6 months later when I was headed through there I mentioned it to them, she replaced it! Without the dead one!
Tally Ho! Who doesn't even have any sun and buys roses for her mom.

Being new to roses, I was planning to go to ARE, but maybe I won't. Sad, because I really was looking forward to it. I live in Tomball, and was planning to head out to RCW today. Funny how I looked on this board. Thanks for your thoughts!!

Lisa, this is a very old thread, posted in 2007.

ARE may have been concentrating all their man (woman?) power on their mail-order at the time, since mail-order peaks in spring & autumn.

Perhaps all their gardeners were working like maniacs packaging & mailing!

Call ARE & *ask* them if this is a good time to visit.

ARE is a *wonderful* place!

Vintage rosary is no more sad to say. His wife passed away from a fungal infection in her lungs, she contacted it from, drum roll, the soil. They had a sale last month & sold all the roses for $10 each. Luckily I missed it.
I'm not a rose person but have a couple, only old garden roses.
And I expect a nursery to CUT THE WEEDS! There is no excuse. I don't let the weeds run rampant in my yard and I don't have a business open to the public. I would be horrified to have customers fighting their way through weeds, overgrown plants and disgusting conditions. Who cares what you have if the place is a mess.
Tally HO!

Well, I'm going to ARE tomorrow anyway. I have to drive to Round Top and ARE is on the way. I haven't been in a few years, so I'll keep an open mind. I just hope they have what my friend is looking for.

This is an old thread, but a timely one for me. I was at a nursery near Montgomery TX today that has beautiful, beautiful plant material, but it is not customer friendly...uneven, soggy, narrow pathways, almost no prices posted, few plants labelled, lotsa weeds. I came away considering a return trip, to offer her a polite scolding and to try navigating the place in sturdier shoes. Then I happened on this thread and remembered that when my landscaper was at the house last year, he had hired some former employees of the Antique Rose Emporium, because Mr. Shoup was having to cut his staff to the bare minimum just to stay afloat in tough times. There's not much money in retail plant nurseries, and we've seen many of them close. Mr. Shoup may be trying to avoid closing the retail store altogether, since the mail-order is having to "carry" the retail site. And of course the first task is watering, all day every day, not weeding. Bottom line: I think I will NOT offer the lady in Montgomery my friendly "advice".

I looked at ARE for daughter's wedding. The lady who showed me around was nice. Rest of help still smarmy and no help. They had rose growing near chapel. I even took a pic of it. The guy I asked had no clue what it was...even though it was growing at his place. All he did was sit and point people to areas. And it seemed like a real chore. The check out guy seemed real put out to. So the only reason I go there is cause I read they make their roses from rooted cuttings vs grafts. Rooted stock is better.
I bet it is tough working in hot weather and bugs. The roses were all thripped eaten too. I would say they need a pictorial guide for each section and put the red head guy to work in the back.

Haven't been there, only ordered online a bunch of roses over the years and have been more than pleased with the shipping and condition of the roses when they arrive; really could not care less what their show gardens look like.

It's tough right now for these special places and we are losing them one after another. They operate on a tight budget. We can't afford to lose access to our old garden roses. I for one plan to keep ordering from them!

Amen, ogrose!

I started wedding planning after I got engaged to my 3 year boyfriend last June, and after seeing over 10-15 texas venues asking or over 10K a night, my mom and I ended up at ARE in Brenham. This was last August, when the roses and plants were completely dried up and they were having to water several times a day to keep them looking decent. A great lady showed me around the property, all the while apologizing at the state of the property. My mom and I, on the other hand, thought it was GORGEOUS! The details, the plants that I have never seen before, and of course, the pale pink antique rose which is now the centerpiece and inspiration for my entire wedding. I have since gone back to the ARE many, many times for wedding planning events and to bring friends and my fiancee to see the site, and the staff has been GREAT to work with and super easy going. I am also taking my bridal portraits out there. I think people who have such a negative response to the ARE just dont get the vibe that they are trying to pull off. Its not about the spots on the roses or when they may or may not have less roses...its about the feeling of excitement and mystery when you explore the property, the wonder at the old antique house, and the awe at the old chapel, brought in from many different places in Texas to its final resting place. The ARE is a very special place.

I go to the ARE in Brenham yearly in the spring, try to time it when the bluebonnets are in bloom. Been doing this for years. Not once I have I ever seen it in anything but pristine condition, with all the roses in full bloom, the beds looking glorious and everything neat and well kept. I try to go in fall as well - but didnt make it last year. Not as much is in bloom, as is to be expected. I have also been in summer, when the heat is horrible and yes, the roses in pots were a little bedraggled but were watered. I have bought them then - once they get planted, they take off like gangbusters. This place in spring is like heaven. I would suggest to those who werent impressed to go at bluebonnet time - I know you would be impressed. No garden looks good all the time and it is certainly possible that Mike is doing some cutting back certain times a year with employees to maintain business. Its a huge place to care for. But please for those of you who were not impressed - do try to go when the bluebonnets bloom and I know you will be as enthralled as I am every spring. I meet a friend from Houston, we take a picnic and eat at the tables under the trees and the time I spent there inspires and invigorates me. The only other nursery that compares is Blue Moon in Tyler. They dont have as many roses but are another incredible sight to behold and every gardner within driving distance should go. Anyone suffering from stress and high blood pressure should go to these 2 nurseries when they are at their peak and you could throw away your blood pressure medicine!!

I have been to the ARI many times and have seen it both ways,beautiful or unkempt and weedy looking. It all depends on the time of year. I think fall is the best, around October. If you are ever in the Tomball area go by the Arbor Gate it is beautiful year around. Its always clean and the grounds and display gardens are great. nice people too! I just moved to the Athens area and visited Blue Moon it's great also.

Part of the allure of Antique Roses is that they are organic, free-flowing "found" delights. Although I have not been to ARE, what you folks are describing sounds to me like the people there are trying to keep the roses in their more natural state, as "found" roses. Check out AAA's Texas Journey Mar/Apr2011 article on them. It highlights that "For the past 100 or so years, breeders have been trying to perfect big, showy flowers. But in the process, other endearing qualities, such as disease resistance and DIVERSITY OF FORM have been bred out... (The roses at ARE) allow the gardener to be an artist." Soooo.... could it be intentional that they let the flowers be?

Sending prayers to our friends at ARE, that they may be safe from the fires that are destroying so much of the Texas landscape.

I wouldn't be so hard on the nursery for needing pruning when you visited. I worked for a rose grower before ;)_After the first Spring bloom-flush, they let the roses grow out and use the cuttings to propagate more plants.

ARE in Brenham doesn't ever look as good in the summer and winter as it does in the fall and spring.
They pretty much let the gardens rest in the harsher weather and concentrate on propagating for the mail-order booms in spring and fall. Most people visit in the spring and fall anyways.

I've always liked ARE in San Antonio better. It looks good in the winter too, tho I've never been crazy enough to brave it in the hot summer!

So far there haven't been fires too close to the ARE here in San Antonio, the Stone Oak and Starcrest fires were each several miles away and across major roads.

It's not any hotter at ARE than any other place in town. They have large trees, porches and benches for shade. It is too hot to plant right now which is why I haven't been there in a while. I hope they and everyone else can weather this as a business so I'll try to make a point of dropping by there soon to see what's new.

It's true that the grounds are irrelevant to the quality of their mail order service, and I might order plants from them in the future. But when you drive three hours out of your way on a brief trip to Texas (as we did), the disappointment was rather a sharp stick in the eye. It looked uncared for and somewhat tacky. Thus, one advises one's friends not to waste precious travel time.

I agree that they provide an invaluable service, but I'm unlikely to visit again. The Lady Bird Wildflower Center on the other hand was absolutely AMAZING!

It depends on what time of year and the kind of weather we've been having. If you were there recently, then I'm not surprised it wasn't to your liking because it is winter here. We just went through a two year drought with record heat followed by record freezes in the winters, we had an early freeze here this year so the only surprise is that you were surprised things are not perfect. No garden around here looks that great right now.

The Wildflower Center has a huge staff and volunteers to maintain it plus they charge admission.

This is normally the off season at ARE so they do not have the personnel to take care of the place as they normally would. The other fact is that the weather in the area has stimulated unusual growth in both the roses and the weeds.
I know I cannot keep up with the weeds in my yard or flower beds.
That being said the owner is a friend and I will suggest he read this thread.

I agree with Rock Oak Deer regarding the time of year and weather playing a big part in how the gardens look. We visit A.R.E. several times a year and the gardens are ever-changing and responding to weather conditions. This is also true with the Johnson Wildflower Center. My husband and I visited there in summer a couple of years ago and it was desolate, dried up, and a real disappointment for me. Of course, I realize that in the spring, early summer, or fall, it is probably quite beautiful; however, the timing of my visit was not good, but I will go again, knowing that it is, in fact, a beautiful place.
Molly