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cyclewest

Playing with ground level

cyclewest
16 years ago

We've made a border on a large section of the east side of our yard - yesterday - a very long day. Here's the debate. My wife wants to raise the level of the border significantly. I know we can't just bury the trunks of trees, and given that the young apple trees have been planted there at least two years, I also don't think it's a good idea to dig them up and replant them higher (not to mention the soil compaction issues). So, is a happy medium to build up after allowing a five foot diameter circle around the trees? The main objective yesterday was to pull up grass immediately surrounding the trees (I'm going to just apply grass killer around the blue spruce since it doesn't produce fruit) and shrubs, define the border, and cover up all of the grass. The current plan would be to continue to add to the height of the border around these "clearance circles."

Here is a link that might be useful: Busy Saturday

Comments (5)

  • stevation
    16 years ago

    I looked at your blog photos, and I don't know if that circle around the trees will work well. It creates a basin that may make them get too wet when watering. This is OK when the trees are small, but when they get large, and their roots have gone beyond the basin, the outer roots won't get the water they need, because it will all flow into the inner basin area. Sometimes when new shrubs or trees are planted, people build a little circular dam around them to hold water so they'll get watered deeply. But after a few years, the dam is usually broken up so water will spread out as the roots grow out.

    If it were me, I'd rather just make a few hills or mounds in the border between some of the trees. But I really wouldn't add any more fill on top of what you've done! I could be wrong, though; maybe it's OK.

    I see that you have some small tufts of grass still poking out in the border -- did you take pieces of sod you removed and turn them over as part of the fill? That grass will grow through the overturned dirt, so be careful to fully eradicate the grass before you plant strawberries or groundcovers. My worst weeding problems are where stupid bluegrass is growing through thick groundcovers or spreading flower plants.

  • cyclewest
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    You know, I must have been reading too much and got confused about the upturned sod concept. My first step was totally removing the sod around the trees (and shrubs), digging it out and realizing that they were probably covered too much in the first place since the graft union wasn't visible.

    How much soil would it take to smother grass? The soil I cut out had to be at least six inches thick. I plan on going around the blue spruce with a grass killer, but I didn't want to get too close to the fruit trees. Plus, if we want to plant things this season, I don't want to make the soil too unfriendly for transplants, right? Now that it's buried, do you suggest spraying anything that is still visible, or waiting for the grass to make it's way up and then take care of it, while planning what to add by way of groundcover next season? I probably wouldn't even have strawberry runners until next year, and aside from transplanting some misplaced or overgrown areas, I'd just be putting out seed (quickly getting too late for that, though)...

  • stevation
    16 years ago

    Well, if you have six inches of dirt on top of that overturned sod, it just *might* work. But in the edge areas, where it's showing, I think that grass will start to turn around and grow up, so it needs to be killed. I've just found bluegrass to be one of the most stubborn, tough weeds when it gets into an area I don't want it, so I'd keep a close eye on whether it starts growing up through the six inches of dirt! And if you dig holes in that six inch layer of dirt to plant something, you'll be potentially allowing some of that grass to grow up in to the disturbed area.

    Maybe someone else is more of an expert on herbicides (bpgreen?) but I'm not sure you'd harm your fruit trees if you sprayed Roundup on the grass near them. I think it'll only hurt if you sprayed the leaves of the trees. I don't think Roundup stays around in the soil very long, but perhaps it would if you overdid it. I know if kills roots but it does it by being absorbed through the leaves and traveling down. I have seen others say that 2,4-D (as in Weed-B-Gone) will stay in the soil for a while, but it's not a grass killer anyway -- it's for broadleaf weeds.

  • bungalowbees
    16 years ago

    I like Steve's idea of creating planting mounds or little hills & leaving the trees alone. This is a great example of how a challenge can lead to creativity, and possibly a more pleasing garden design. Love changes in ground level in a garden, anything that visually leads the eye around & offers garden depth.

    By now you've probably solved the grass problem but I thought I'd chime in on grass removal, since I've removed my entire front lawn, and a good deal of the back.....

    I don't use chemicals. I dig out the grass & roots & remove it completely. It's instant and it works. My toughest grass removal project was under an old tree. The "soil" was cement and the tree roots held their ground & fought.

    I'm not sure what it takes to smother grass -- I have found grass winding under slabs of rocks! But I do know that persevering and pulling roots eventually gives you a grass free bed. Luckily or unluckily I have a rather small city lot to work with so I can take this approach.

  • cyclewest
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Wow, has it been a month? Well, I got a little side tracked with the MS century ride in June, followed by being out of town a couple of weeks after that... So, the RU (that is not supposed to stick around, still need to dive into the label to get comfortable) is still sitting in my garage waiting to be applied. As Stevation warned, there are grass shoots growing through the six plus inches of soil that was put on top, along with the patches that were sticking out and the ones I didn't attempt to cover. So now I'm having nightmares about a continuous battle to kill grass that slowly makes it's way up through the soil. I'll have to take another look at the places where I used cardboard or newspaper to see whether it was an adequate barrier. It seemed like the crabapple went through some slight shock, but nothing major on the other two trees. Of course, none are producing yet, so as long as they're making progress on the fruit clock....

    Someone on the fruit forum asked why I would try to change something that wasn't a "problem", but my wife is upbeat about our yard having a little more shape. We were even invited to dinner because my wife was so anxious for me to see the berm in her friend's backyard. Of course, theirs was build up before anything was planted, but I guess it was the concept.

    I'll have to clean it up and post a follow-up picture!

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