I have a love/hate relationship with mine. I am in Richmond and had some Kleim's put in as part of a foundation planting. They did great for a year until I realized that I preferred (and ordered) Chuck Hayes. They replaced them and they seemed to do fine. I had one die because my irrigation head wasn't watering it all summer. This year they are doing terrible. Some look great and are blooming. Two look brown and like they are going to die. Some have yellowing leaves. Keep in mind they are all in the same bed, on the same irrigation schedule, and are about 3 feet apart. The only difference from last summer is that I topdressed with mushroom compost in the fall and we had a wet spring. I have used acid fertilizer, put down Aluminum Sulfate to lower the pH, fertilized with Miracle grow for acid plants, gave them som e holly tone early this spring, and stopped watering them as much (I think my clay soil isn't draaining well).

Now that you have heard my long-winded ramblings, here is the point. When they are in a good spot, fed, and watered, they do well and are one of my favorite shrubs. They smell amazing. I would recommend trying at least one and if it does well, go for it. I think my attempt to add multiple plants to an area that needs to look good all the time was one of my biggest problems.

TBT

Thanks for the info TBT. Can you tell me why you preferred Chuck Hayes vs Kleim's?? I only thought that Kleim's would be better for me since the article I read said that they are smaller. How big do the Chuck Hayes grow?? I also would be mixing other plants with the gardenia's. I am also looking for some foundation shrubs but do not want anything overwhelming -- I just tore out a bunch of boxwoods!

wools

In researching Gardenias recently I found an article that suggested 'Chuck Hayes' may be hardier than Kleim's. It also receommended planting early in the growing season to allow plenty of time for it to become established. I think starting with a smaller plant may also improve the chance of success.

Filbert

I too have a love/hate relationship with gardenias. I st planted Chuck Hayes along a south facing foundation 4 yrs ago. It did well the 1st summer, bloomed like crazy. The following year it sulked along....I think the foundation area wasn't an ideal spot and except for adding peat moss to the hole, I didn't help the plant along much.

Also, we get some frigid winds from the west here where I live. The plants take a beating and I've now had 2 Chuck Hayes nearly die on me. I just don't have a good spot to plant where they can get protection from the elements. I have a friend that lives a mile away that grows Chuck Hayes in a courtyard and it does well.

Last year I purchased a couple of Kleim's that I wintered over in an unheated room I love the smaller sized leaves. They bloomed like crazy in June and are presently in a lull. There were so many flowers that you almost have to remove the dead ones to get them off the plant. The aroma is wonderful.

I personally like Chuch Hayes but that's only because the flowers are the more traditional gardenia. I also love the small size of Kleim's hardy. The flowers are unusual. From now on I'll grow both gardenias in an unheated room and summer them outside. That smell just brings me back to my NC roots.

I live in northern Cumberland just beneathe Fluvanna County line which really isn't too far away from you. I have a gardenia bush that is thriving here very well without alot of upkeep from me. It is a Gardenia jasminoides 'Frostproof'. The 1st gardenia bush I bought was my 'learner'....lol. In order to be successful with the 2nd bush, I chose a spot where it got morning sun but was in the shade of our covered porch for the rest of the day. This spot has good drainage and it isn't too close to everything else because it can grow up to 5' high and 4' wide. The spot I chose was a new spot a year ago where I planted some annuals there as well as constant shredded pine mulch/turning the soil in that spot to make sure the 2nd one would survive from my 1st learner. After I let the annuals and also the mulch do the work for me, I bought a bush that was about 1 ft x 1 ft in early June. It's late July and it is 3 ft wide x 2 1/2 ft tall! I put a balanced food in under the bottom of the plant when I put it in the ground. The trick to it I found was alot of water up front until it established roots....and also my secret ingredient for all acid loving plants instead of buying all of that expensive stuff....used coffee grounds. Next time you make a pot of coffee, keep the used coffee grounds out on the counter top and let the filter and grounds dry. Once they are dry, take them outside to your gardenia bush and spread them all around the base of it and use your fingers to mix it in with the top 1/4 inch of soil. water real well without touching the leaves.....just take a garden hose and let it sit under it for a little bit with the water pressure on low until it is soaked....not drowned...just soaked thoroughly down a few inches. Keep watering it for every few days with our heat/humidity, pick off dead blooms as soon as you see them start to turn yellow. Pick the whole old bloom off....I do this daily or every other day but it doesn't take too long to do if you have it close by your front porch! Also pick off the yellow leaves too. It fools the plant into thinking it's not done on blooming yet so it focuses it's energy on new blooms/leaves. I put more used dry coffee grounds out there 1 time per week for the next 3 weeks and voila!!! It is nice, lush, and green now and it tripled in size. I haven't had to touch it but once a week now because all of the rain we've been getting lately I haven't needed to. The 1st bush I got died a good death to be able to save another.....lol. Oh, also use sevin liquid on it too once a week to keep the bugs at bay....Sevin is the only thing I have been able to keep the bugs off of it and my other flowers. It comes in dust or liquid....I use the liquid because it doesn't leave that pesky white powdery film on it...that's about the most expensive thing I buy:) I hope this helps neighbor!

'Kleim's' is definitely more cold hardy than 'Chuck Hayes', despite 'Chuck' being developed at Tech. Gardenias are very picky shrubs, but if they are in the right spot they will thrive and may outgrow the written sizes. Even the most cold hardy cultivars should be planted in a protected area. Also, I have found that gardenias don't like very acid soils. They also don't like excess mulch around the base.

My concern with gardenias and other cold tender shrubs like Loropetalum is one of these days we will get a true killing freeze like what was experienced in the 80s that killed many Ligustrum and Camellias throughout Richmond, even in Windsor Farms. Keep in mind a look at Richmond's climate history says these cold outbreaks average every 20 to 30 years.

Glad to know about the differences in the two. I had also read where Hayes' was more cold hardy than Klein's. I have been looking for 'Chuck Hayes' to plant at our new home just south of Accomac but now am thinking about the Kleim's. Where is a good source???
TY
Deb

Oh, Phompsis canker on Gardenia is becoming a problem, in some areas a serious problem. Scale also devours it.