Soil :

noun: soil; plural noun: soils

the upper layer of earth in which plants grow, a black or dark brown material typically consisting of a mixture of organic remains, clay, and rock particles.
"blueberries need very acid soil"

Vermicompost:

Vermicompost is the product or process of composting using various worms, usually red wigglers, white worms, and other earthworms to create a heterogeneous mixture of decomposing vegetable or food waste, bedding materials, and vermicast.

vermicastings

worm cast
noun
plural noun: worm castings

a convoluted mass of soil, mud, or sand thrown up by an earthworm or lugworm on the surface after passing through the worm's body.

Some VC (vermicompost ) may contain soil but it would be imprecise to say so unless you knew the specifics.

Read a book : Teaming with microbes.

VermiCOMPOST is a mixture of vermiCASTINGS and other various soils.

VermiCASTINGS are pure worm excretions, which consist of all food materials that passed thru a worm digestive system....becoming microbial enhanced untold-fold (million times? billion?) and which, for whatever ridiculous reasons known only to the Maker, have somehow become immune to all the evil that was present in the materials that entered the wormies' mouths when they ate the stuff.

In other words, every contaminated, poisonous, disease-infested atom that enters into that wormie mouth exits the south end impervious to contamination by mundane crap that we humans belch into the environment.

Chuckiebtoo

Thanks both. Appreciate your response. Chuckiebtoo---so, you mean to say Vermicompost contain soil (if not more, some %)?

The reason I am asking is because, there is this individual who claims that he is growing organic plants in soilless medium. His mix contains vermicompost and coco peat, in 1:1 ratio.

To me soil is a mixture of organic and inorganic materials. You have clay and sand providing the inorganic for structure and minerals then you have everything that was once living breaking down providing the organic side of things.

The worms process all of the above by grinding it down to microscopic level and adding their own special microbes making whats left easily accessible for plants to take up all those nutrients and minerals.

Also in my own view vermicompost is vermicastings + organic material that is stable but has not yet passed through the worm.

Pure compost made from just plant material or dirt devoid of life would not be soil, mix them and it is soil, this is what worms do. VC from many systems may not contain any of the dirt side up front in the mix but the elements are still there. Plants take up silica, calcium, iron ect... just not the structure forms as in sand or clay.

In the end VC (worm castings) are soil though experimentation has shown there is a leveling off of the great benefits when using ever higher ratios of VC in plant bedding. A point of diminishing returns that has been placed from 20 to 50% in the few articles I have seen.

As to VC and Peat medium growing being organic, why not? As long as there are no other chemical inputs being added as in pest control sprays or fertilizers then I would think that would follow the organic ideal. That it is soiless, that would be a no from me.

"" soilless medium. His mix contains vermicompost and coco peat, in 1:1 ratio."" Definite NOT soilless.
Hydroponics is a subset of hydroculture and is a method of growing plants using mineral nutrient solutions, in water, without soil.

It would depend on the production of the vermicompost. My vermicompost is soilless; the only input is plant material and organic waste. I actually do have a potting mix for a few seedlings that is 50% vermicompost and 50% a peat lite mix. Some folks add soil to the worm bin; I don't do that because I've never seen the need, and I want all the space I can get to put in the organic waste stream.
Renais

I think we are having a problem with our definitions. Soil consists of organic matter, minerals and the organisms that live in the organic matter and minerals that are beneficial to plants. Air and water are also components in soil. I don't think it is correct to say that worm castings are soil or contain soil. I think it is more correct to say that soil may contain worm castings and that dirt can be converted to soil by the addition of worm castings.

A soilless medium would be a medium that has neither organic matter nor beneficial microbes. A soilless medium does not have nutrients in it, but must have nutrients pumped into it. I would not consider a mixture of peat moss and VC to be soilless.

My casts have some mineral soil. It is because the horse manure used fall on a fine powdery dirt well worked by the horse. Some pucks get scratched around by chickens and get coated. This powdery white mineral soil gets concentrated, because it does not break down.

I like Nexev's explanation. Also what sbryce said about soilless is my understanding.

Here is casts with white mineral soil.

aaaaaaaaaa:

Vermicastings are worm feces.

Vermicompost consists of a preponderance of vermicastings AND other materials NOT vermicastings. But the biology of the vermicastings "infect" all that other stuff with lots of the qualities of the vermicastings.

What happens to foodstuffs that pass thru the worm is the magic of the vermicastings.

chuckiebtoo

FWIW....One reason for confusions between vermicastings and vermicompost: because lots of peeps abbreviate either of them as "VC".

aaaaaaaaaa, I was hoping the Fonz was now into vermicoposting Whoa!

Men are from mars women are from venus. What he feels is a soilless mix because he did not put a shovel full of soil from out side into the mix but simply richly amended mix you feel is a soil containing mix because of that richly amended mix of stuff. The answer here is not in answering that question but in answering a different question. If this bloke is trying to hawk his wares as soilless and you believe they are not simply do not purchase from him. If he has a competing company dial up the soils forum yahoos. If this person with an intense and passionate interest in organic plants, is somebody you know personally, and you like the plants or their products, than simply smile and agree. While knowing you may be technically correct, or not, I'm not sure, but he is simply happy thinking he is growing organic plants soillessly. Dem's might be some good... tomatoes. Or it could be broccoli. I forget.

I think the vermicompost forum is not the place to get definitive information on this topic. We are more the we are trying to get worms to lay the golden egg forum. Maybe Garden Web has a soils forum. They should.

Plus vermicompost and vermicastings are not a set standard. Some might contain sand, clay, whatever and others might contain none. 1 to 1 ratio. I think he is growing soillessly in peat that has been amended with vermicompost. One could technically grow soillessly and amend with... soil. The tart cherry 100% juice I saw today was apple juice, tart cherry juice. Thus it could be 50% soilless apple juice amended with tart cherry juice soil.

Let him call it what he wants. You have better and more important things happening.

Here is a link that might be useful: Aaaayh!!!

bryce, "I think it is more correct to say that soil may contain worm castings and that dirt can be converted to soil by the addition of worm castings. A soilless medium would be a medium that has neither organic matter nor beneficial microbes. A soilless medium does not have nutrients in it, but must have nutrients pumped into it. I would not consider a mixture of peat moss and VC to be soilless." Aaaaamen to that. That is what I would have said had I not felt like the scarecrow without a brain when trying to figure out the answer.

mendopete, In the wheel barrel the white spaklies make me want to sing, Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho It's home from work we go
[Whistle] We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig from early morn till night
We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig up everything in sight
We dig up virmies by the score
A thousand red ones, sometimes more
But we don't know what we dig 'em for
We dig dig dig a-dig dig
Where a million diamonds shine!

Note: chuckiebtoo used the word: peeps. Just sayin.

aaaaaaaa, So, like, is this guy evil? Do we need to nail him to the wall with well researched citations from science journals or

"In other words, every contaminated, poisonous, disease-infested atom that enters into that wormie mouth exits the south end impervious to contamination by mundane crap that we humans belch into the environment." ~ Chuckiebtoo Hillary has been missing from the news cycle headlines for a month. She might need our help. We are obviously waaaaaay talented.

sbryce, actually it starts at "I think we are having a problem with our definitions." Agree, agree, agree, and just keeps getting better.

Just wanted to add that I think your post, especially for a new timers post, is the most well answered, with the most varied, yet from a multitude of well knowledgeable different places, every post was great all the way through each one, that I think you have the best replied to post I have ever seen. You got good! Real good!

Thanks all. Lot of information to process. Thanks again.
Anna