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joez63

Worm tea

joez63
12 years ago

I just started making worn tea, what should it smell like?

Comments (43)

  • JerilynnC
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No odor or a slight molasses smell.

    If it has any kind of bad smell to it, don't use it.

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Heaven.

    I have not made it.
    It should smell like life.
    Alive. Giving and going some place.
    Maybe a bit like healthy fermentation.

    Some where between yougurt and pickles?

  • moandtg
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello there,

    My way of making worm tea is 64 oz per 5 gallon bucket. Stir for 10 seconds a day, and use after 4 days. That is it, very simple.

    What do you think?

    Mike

  • JerilynnC
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That will work, Mike. But, you won't get anywhere near the numbers of microorganisms that you get with an aerated worm tea.

  • mendopete
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I brew AVCT in a 15 gallon bucket. I add about 2 gallons of castings and 1/2 cup of molasses. After about 24 hours it has a head on it that looks like rootbeer foam. It smeels good, a little sweet and yeasty.

    Jerilynn, you have me re-evaluating my molasses use. This year I will try feeding fish and kelp. That may not smell as good, and may attract unwanted critters!

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK, this post is a bit long, but you will be glad you took the time to read it.

    About 99% of advice and videos I�ve seen on how to make Worm Tea involve soaking the castings for 24-48 hours in a 5 gal or larger container with air bubblers going for aeration. I really don�t see the need to harvest worm castings or "brew" worm tea from castings at all. To me it seems like unnecessary waiting, unnecessary energy spent and actually less efficient use of the worm "offal". In the following, I detail a much simpler method which I think is more efficient in every aspect, and I would like to know what you and your audience think. Using this method, my garden has grown quickly without the use of any other fertilizer and severe infestations with aphids and white flies have disappeared. I also would like to know what you recommend as a mineral, etc. supplement to worm tea, or is it a complete fertilizer in itself.

    I built a worm bin in a 25 gal Rubbermaid Tote, I originally drilled 5/16″ holes only in the sides and ends for aeration, but NOT the top and bottom. However, I developed a problem with gnats or fruit flies coming in through the holes. So I redesigned it and I installed 4 x 4″ plastic dryer vent covers, 2 in the ends near the top and 2 in the sides near the bottom, covering them with a piece of nylon from old ladies hosiery. This solved the problem I had with gnats Then I installed a PVC drain valve in one end near the base of the unit. Next I put a bag of gravel over the drain valve intake, filled with bedding, kitchen waste and worms and wait 2 or 3 days for the worms to do their thing. I pour a 2 gallon watering can of water over the worm bin contents 2 or 3 times daily and put the can under the spigot and turn on to allow it to drain into the can. PRESTO, worm tea and it works very well. This Worm Tea (or Leachate, call it what you will) is simply the dilute and FRESH version of Worm Castings and can be poured directly over the leaves of your plants and/or onto the soil of your garden.

    This method avoids the 3 to 6 month waiting period during which time your worm bin matures after which the castings can be harvested. This way your worm tea can be harvested almost immediately and several times per day providing up to 6 gallons per day of effective, perfectly diluted worm tea for your garden. Using this large volume of water and not allowing it to sit in the worm bin avoids the problems I have seen others have of making the worms uncomfortable, etc. My worms have yet to "run" and are never to be found crawling on the sides or lid of the worm bin, and just appear to be very content to take their daily "worm shower".

    It appears that what is happening is that the water is partially dissolving the worm castings and cleaning out what other worm wastes are present (pee, poo, sweat, slime, etc.) and keeping your worm bin clean and attractive to the worms. In other words, they don�t have to crawl around in their own waste products for several weeks or months. Since their home stays nice and clean with plent of aeration and food, they have no reason to leave. It just works, plain and simple, with the absolute simplest and cheapest design, least amount of labor and attentiveness and greatest productivity of any system I have heard of. Try it, you�ll see.

    Michael

  • dowbright
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mikey, I love the concept. I've always wondered why the worms should be living in their own pure castings. It seems to me that on soil, the castings are leaching into the soil underneath every time it rains, no matter how thick they layer of castings is.

    I have a Worm Factory, and by necessity have a layer of earthworms and a layer of red wigglers. I want to keep them separate for the fishing season coming up. So I (illegally!) have an empty bin in between. This means both top layers dry out really quickly. The worms are still happy and active right underneath, but this would keep the top layer more in play.

    So I'm really looking forward to what more experienced (than me) folks have to say. Thanks for the idea.

    But I'm no expert. I'll be really anxious to see what others say.

  • jennijenjen
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mikey I'm also looking forward to hearing more about this idea. I only started my first worm bin 2 months ago but I'm getting impatient and my garden really needs help in this sandy soil.
    I'm hoping that wetting them down occasionally will give me some good worm tea if the worms will be okay. I just have a few drainage holes in the top and bottom of a 7" tall bin.
    The first time I fed them I ended up with ants and after spraying the bin a few times that day, the worms did start to try to leave the bin until I added cardboard.

    Thanks,
    Jen

  • dowbright
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't have a clue how to aerate, other than to put it in a bucket and stir it up. ??

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mikey10 here,
    Just a note to let people know that I have only had this worm bin working for 2 months now, adding only kitchen waste from 2 people, all office paper shreds, all cardboard passing through the house, some shredded newspaper and minimal bagged garden soil AND I have now divided the bin 3 times distributing worm compost, worm castings and worms to my garden areas. This is in addition to collecting about 6 gallons of nicely diluted daily. Doing it this way is just so simple and easy and productive that I must be doing something wrong and according to the majority of "worm experts" on the internet, I am doing it completely wrong. Hey, it just works! What else can I say? I should probably start at least one more bin, but this is working fine for now. Feedback welcomed.

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    aerate, generally means they take an air pump, connect air line tubing, an airstone, put it into a 5 gallon bucket and let it bubble, or aerate for two days. Or something close to that method. The air pump might cost about $20 the tube and stone about $10. The pump is about 5 inches by two inches in size. The air bubbles would keep the solution moving in order to get air from the surface into the water at all depths so the wee beasties can breath. Or I could be wrong.

  • dowbright
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Can anyone fill us in on why Mikey's idea is bad, or flawed? I'm really wanting to know. Thanks!

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mikey here again,

    Just wanted to mention (the obvious) that the worm bin needs to be tilted back to front at about a 10 to 15 degree angle so the worm tea will easily and quickly drain back to your watering can. This system ensures that the worm bin is never too wet or too dry, but just right.

    Also, I started out with only about 300 worms rather than the recommended 1000 to 2000 for the 2 square foot surface area of my worm bin and was able to immediately begin harvesting worm tea. Of course, the more worms you add generally the quicker food and paper waste are converted to worm castings and worm tea. But mine multiplied very quickly so I don't think it is necessary to start with so many worms if proper conditions are maintained.

    Once again, thanks for your feedback, and all comments are welcomed. And I am very happy to find this site for sharing info.

  • dowbright
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mikey, way down in the forum I read that what you're harvesting might be leachate, not tea. But I'm still unsure about the difference. I think I might ask that question in a different thread. Thanks for the idea, and I think I'll try it one of these days.

    How are the plants you feed doing?

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Dowbright,
    My very large patio garden is doing exceptionally well considering all I am doing is watering everything with worm tea twice daily with temps already in the 90's (115 F plus on the patio due to the reflection off the brick wall). But nothing even droops due in part I suppose to the water conserving ability of the worm humus. Also I added a few worms to each planter. However, now I am going to "pump up the volume" so to speak by adding Comfrey leaves which are supposed to break down quickly to an amazing fertilizer in their own right, once my cuttings arrive. Here's a great web site about Comfrey if you're not familiar with it.
    http://www.coescomfrey.com/Coes_Comfrey___How_to_Use.html
    Comfrey is supposed to be superfood for worms increasing their numbers by 400%!!

  • PeterK2
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dowbright, there will be leachate in that mix. But as you can use leachate on plants when diluted with water (claims of value vary) and Mikes system is flushing it with water, it automatically dilutes any leachate.

    BTW for the difference, tea is just worm casting put into water and 'brewed' in some way. Leachate is the water released from decomposting organic matter. While the castings have been fully composted, passed through a digestive system etc. which reduces the number of pathogens, leachate is just liquid coming out of rotting waste. It will have nitrogen and other stuff plants like, which is why it can be used. But while it might not harm the plants, you might want to wash the leaves well before consumption.

  • mendopete
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mikey10 I like your system. It is basically vermiponics. everything gets flushed regularly I do not think the leachate would have time to go anaerobic. The worms must LOVE the daily bath! You got me thinkin'........

  • dowbright
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mendopete, I agree it would not go anaerboic. But I worry about the compounds from outside sources on the organics put into the bin. The poisons, and also the human organisms from harvesting by people. This is NOT my idea, it came from something I read on this forum about the danger of leachate. It had never even occurred to me, but it does make some sense. We put a concentrated amount of leftover produce raised by others into the bins. (Or, I do.)

    I don't have any idea who's right, or if there's any danger. But my pseudo-husband has cancer, and I just can't take any risks. So much as I love your idea, Mikey, I can't do it. If you want, I will go find that thread for you to read. Just let me know. :D

    Damn! I love that concept! I wish I could be sure.

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dowbright,

    Regarding your post regarding leachate, I can only say that it is working very, very well with absolutely no side effects and very little effort, after almost 3 months of using nothing but worm tea to water my garden. It appears to be so perfectly diluting the worm castings and other wastes, that I have given up even watering with water. We can call it leachate or worm juice or worm sweat or whatever, makes no difference to me, what counts in my opinion is results.

    I am sorry to hear your husband has cancer. Have you looked into the Gerson Cancer Therapy or that of Dr Schultz (www.herbdoc.com)? It is a simple, natural, holistic way to cure cancer with a very high success rate. If you take an overall look at the American government, business, and society in general, some trends begin to emerge...if a company can profit from something, it is good, if there is little or no profit, then the product becomes bad. Not only bad, but condemned by experts, regulated by laws, and eventually made illegal.

    A couple of cases in point are Dr Gerson's and Dr Schultz's ideas on natural healing. Also the use and cultivation of Comfrey as well as Hemp, two of the most useful and prolific and productive plants on the planet. Hemp is illegal and Comfrey is being condemned and regulated. Do the research.

    Michael

  • dowbright
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I couldn't agree more, Mikey, on the state of the "medical" situation in our country. I read about everything I can get my hands on. Agree too on hemp and comfrey. Organic Gardening magazine was writing about the benefits of comfrey since I first started reading it in the early 70's, and it was still on newspaper quality paper, not a slickie like it is now! I didn't know comfrey is being condemned, but will go learn about it. Thanks for the link. I still have those magazines. Ruth Stout is my personal fairy godmother, as I loved gardening but hated the weed/labor part. She's a famous mulcher who made it popular among we earthy types back then.

    I fell almost more in love with growing the soil than I did for my plants! It felt good to be good to the earth. Still does. I've moved and now am container gardening, which isn't quite as fulfilling as growing dirt...but at least I'm giving him good healthful food.

    Keep up the good fight! I'm trying to as well. :)

  • reedandleaf
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ooo, feeding the soil! There is nothing more satisfying than feeding the soil and watching that soil give back 100 fold in fruit and bloom! There's a great book called, "Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web" by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis. It has a really nice description of the soil food web and aerated compost teas. The aeration allows for the growth of beneficial bacteria and fungi for the soil food web (as opposed to the bad bacteria that tend to grow in anaerobic, non-aerated teas). Aerated teas are used to brew or "farm" good bacteria and fungi.
    As for leachate, I used mine for years and the house plants have always loved it. But since I have tried a couple of different methods for the worms (Rubbermaid totes/Can-O-Worms/Worm Factory) I noticed a huge difference in the leachate from each set up even though they are given the same feed. The stuff from the Worm Factory and Rubbermaid is pretty gross. I definitely wouldn't put it anywhere near my plants. But the stuff from the Can-O-Worms is very different. Not gross at all, and has been great for the plants for the past seven plus years. Go figure. I have no clue as to why. I think it must really vary per set up and depending on what you put into that set up.
    Mike's system sounds like it never gets the opportunity to get stagnant, or anaerobic. The Can-O-Worms seems to run a little more wet than the others, maybe like Mike's system, it just cycles through more quickly and doesn't have time to get gross...
    p.s. dowbright, I'm so very sorry to hear about your DH. I wish you both as much joy, healing, love and laughter as possible--all my best wishes. -Reed

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's a link to a wonderful book website and especially to a truly necessary book for all gardeners, printed 1954 and now out of print and available here as a PDF ebook. They ask for but do not insist on a $13 US lifetime membership fee. The book is "Russian Comfrey" by Lawrence D. Hills and the site is "Soil and Health Library" at address http://www.soilandhealth.org/
    Enjoy,
    Michael

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dowbright (and all),
    Here is an excellent video on youtube about the Gerson Therapy.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzDHGLEUyw
    Someone had sent me the DVD and I was trying to find a way to share it with you when I found it on YouTube. Hope it helps.
    Michael

  • JerilynnC
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    From the american cancer society:
    http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/DietandNutrition/gerson-therapy

    Available scientific evidence does not support claims that Gerson therapy is effective in treating cancer, and the principles behind it are not widely accepted by the medical community. It is not approved for use in the United States. Gerson therapy can be dangerous. Coffee enemas have been associated with serious infections, dehydration, constipation, colitis (inflammation of the colon), electrolyte imbalances, and even death.

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    JerilynnC,
    I see you are a believer in maintaining the status quo in line with the Medical Establishment, where the money is, a sentiment which I do not share.
    Michael

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good article from Horizon Herbs on Comfrey:
    Comfrey roots and leaves contain the valuable cell-proliferant allantoin. Salve speeds healing quite noticeably. By popular vote here at Horizon Herbs, this is the most useful medicinal plant in our entire garden (see my book "Making Plant Medicine" for more on this). Besides making medicine from the dried roots, we use the leaves for curing our goats of scours. Furthermore, we have great results making the fresh leaves into biodynamic tea, which we apply to our potted plants to increase vitality, growth, and to green up all those leaves! Excellent ingredient for compost piles--fresh leaves compost fast and make a nitrogen-rich compost! Organic, farm-derived, vegetarian and free of cost. Planting comfrey in your orchard will help bring up valuable minerals, and as the comfrey leaves die back, these minerals will become available to your fruit trees. Helps limit disease in the orchard, increases availability of potassium and trace minerals.

    How do I plant it? You take the cutting out of the bag of moist coir and plant it with the roots down in the ground and the crown up toward the light. Firm the soil around the cutting and leave a bit of the crown and any leaves up out of the soil and in the light. Water it after you transplant it. Comfrey is not only a cell proliferant to human or animal tissue, it is a cell proliferant to its OWN tissue, so it will grow agreeably fast. If you get several cuttings, plant them from 1 to 2 feet apart, in regular garden soil, in the full sun to part shade. Comfrey will suffer if it gets too dry, so water it weekly, at least. Plant anytime ground can be worked.

    Can I plant it in a pot? Yes, but it doesn't like to stay in pots indefinitely, and will send a rootlet out the bottom ot the pot in search of some real dirt. Keep it potted for a few weeks if needs be, but get it into the ground before too long.

    What's the difference between Bocking 14 and true comfrey (Symphytum officinalis)? The Bocking 14 cultivar of Russian Comfrey (Symphytum x uplandicum) is a sterile hybrid that will not self-seed and is extremely robust and vigorous. It is highest of all comfrey in the cell proliferant molecule allantoin. The true comfrey (Symphytum officinalis) is a bit less vigorous of a grower, has more elongated leaves and (I think) prettier flowers, and does indeed make seed. True comfrey contains a good measure of allantoin and is free of the potentially toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloid echimidine. Although both types of comfrey (Russian and True) are useful for making medicine and making compost, in an ideal world one would use the bocking cultivar for producing large amounts of biomass for permaculture gardens, composting, and animal feed, and one would use the true comfrey (Symphytum officinalis) for medicinal purposes. Again, both types (and other species as well) are used interchangeably in agriculture and in medicine.

    How about the ordering and shipping details? Comfrey is shipped in all seasons, so be careful when you order it--if you are frozen up don't order it--it will come about a week after you order it--so wait to order until you and your ground are ready! We offer comfrey at a very inexpensive price and therefore do not backorder this item--its grab as grab can when the grabbing is good! At checkout, chose "plants" shipping. We ship almost exclusively in the medium priority mail box. If for some reason you have no mail receptacle then tell us so we can ship via UPS!

    Here's the link to buy true comfrey seed

    Here's the link to buy true comfrey roots

    Here's the link to buy Bocking 14 Hybrid Russian comfrey crown cuttings

    Oh, by the way, we do give large and robust russian comfrey crown cuttings. Folks are invariably happy with them. Our true comfrey roots are grown from seed, and we are giving the whole root with crown, not a cutting. Pretty nice. Potted plants of true comfrey are also available in season. The comfrey seed we sell is from our own production. In all cases don't panic, its ORGANIC.

    What about toxicity and Pyrrolizidine alkaloids (PA's)? Laboratory tests that red-flagged comfrey as a potentially toxic plant were done using the concentrated alkaloids injected into rats. Using the whole herb as a poultice or as a food or medicinal herb for internal use is rather different than injecting the purified PA's. Plenty of herbalists, gardeners, and regular folks eat comfrey leaves with no apparent harm. In my herbal practice I've seen only one toxic aspect of comfrey. That is, the bristly hairs that one finds on the leaves, which can cause a skin rash if, for instance, you're out there in the garden with bare arms and you pick a load of comfrey leaves and carry it back to the house in the crook of your arm. The rash is bright red, hot, and short-lived. Wash well and apply moisturizer (or, ironically enough, comfrey root salve, which will REALLY cure it fast!) A comfrey poultice of fresh leaves can cause the same rash. To make a good poultice, dig the fresh roots and grind them in a blender with some water and slap that on. Works a treat. If you don't like the idea of the herbal poultice going directly on your skin, sandwich the goop between 2 layers of light cloth and slap that on.

    I've never seen anyone get sick from taking comfrey internally. A neighbor had a near fatal car crash and broke many bones. We gave him tincture of fresh comfrey root daily for 2 weeks and he healed up really fast (much faster than the hospital folks thought he would). I think what it comes down to is, there's no reason to take the herb internally unless you really need it (broken bone, deep bruising, damaged cartilage). The herb is going to do its work in 2 weeks time. Don't take it for longer than that. Don't take comfrey if you're pregnant--it can cause veno occlusive disease in infants. Feel free to apply comfrey to your skin anytime. You're not going to absorb enough PA's to cause any problems. If you're concerned about PA's, use the low-alkaloid True Comfrey (Symphytum officinalis) for making medicinal preparations and use Bocking 14 for permacultural applications, biodynamic preparations, compost making and liquid fertilizer.

    Concerning Feeding and Veterinary value of comfrey for goats and other livestock: Fresh comfrey leaf contains about 20% protein and is excellent livestock food. Because it is hairy alot of goats/cows etc won't like it absolutely fresh so thats an issue. If you let it wilt for 24 hours the leaf will become softer and more acceptable as fodder. Or, you can dry it and rub it through a coarse screen and add the herb to feed or you can mash or rub the fresh leaves and then they don't feel hairy and most animals will then relish them. You can also mash and mix with molasses, which is good. Another point is that perfectly healthy goats may turn up their noses to comfrey but sick goats will eat comfrey as if it was one of their other favorite foods--fir bark, green hardwood leaves, some kinds of grasses or clovers, broccoli plants, celery, parsley, lovage, the labels from soup cans, grandpa's cotton underwear... Comfrey treats scours, the usual stomach ailments, broken limbs, but not infections such as mastitis. If your goats however go COSTIVE then you truly have a problem and comfrey isn't going to fix it. What I mean by costive is fully unable to poop and starting to bloat and letting out little plaintive cries--the goat will be dead in 2 days unless you get their bowels moving, call a vet.

    I have a whole antimastitis program that involves keeping the udders drained of milk as much as possible and giving hot epsom salt soaks with a terrycloth directly on the udder and then drying udder and rubbing poke oil on the udder, clearing up the nastiest mastitis in a couple of days, fully herbal, again see my book "making plant medicine." If you see blood clots in the milk when you filter it watch out--run a preemptive mastitis program before its too late!

    Goat's Rue is used in Europe all the time to boost lactation and it works a treat. It is not harmful. I've checked this with the main european phytotherapists.

    As for the farm plan you simply get started growing the plants and you see how often you really use them and how much they produce and then fine-tune your agricultural plan accordingly. Yield of these plants is fully dependent on your environment and how much you care for your plants (cutting back after flowering, side dressing with their own leaves, watering and weeding) For my medicinal stash, I like to concentrate on growing a few good plants. Richo

  • dowbright
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mike: I don't care about the naysayers. I'll give anything a shot. Comfrey is on my list of to-dos. Thanks!

    If it doesn't help, no harm done. If it does, great assistance given.

    I am now growing comfrey.

    ReedanLeaf! Thank you so very much for caring. He's actually holding up quite well. All positive thoughts are appreciated. It can't hurt, right? :)

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You're right, DowBright, it can only help!
    Michael

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dowbright (and All),

    Here are some good links on two additional amazing items, Diatomaceous Earth and Watercress both with amazing health benefits.

    http://www.earthworkshealth.com/

    http://heavenandearthpowder.info/Home_Page.php

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RQn6GSHNzBE#!

    http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/watercress.html

  • dowbright
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for all your help with the pseudo-husband, Mikey! It's appreciated.

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    By the way, Dowbright, Dr. Hulda Clark claims in her research she has found a direct link between the existence of cancer in EVERY CASE she has investigated and the presence of a certain human parasite!!! Amazing, huh? Even more amazing is the ability of Foodgrade Diatomaceous Earth when ingested (1 to 2 tablespoons daily taken with food or beverage) ... the ability of DE to detoxify the human body of many and numerous problems including parasites. And Dr. Clark agrees with this claim. Do the Research. In following her instructions several years ago (detailed in her book "The Cure For All Diseases" Kindle $14.95), I was able to avoid Gall Bladder surgery, purge gall stones from both my gall bladder and liver (which is where they come from) AND I am happy to report that I still have my gall bladder! Also I personally know 2 people who have been completely cured of cancer using a combination of the Gerson Therapy and Dr. Clark's advice.

  • greengrass12
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I use to grow comfrey until I read of its effect on the liver. I imagine that not everybody is effected in same way but not worth the chance to me.

    Comfrey herb, tea and root benefit, side effects, risks by Ray Sahelian, M.D. Symphytum officinale

    Comfrey is a perennial herb with a black, turnip-like root and large, hairy broad leaves. This medicinal herb has long been used to treat painful joint and muscular conditions.

    Caution, safety
    The use of comfrey herb in dietary supplements is a concern since this plant contain pyrrolizidine alkaloids. Pyrrolizidine alkaloids and their N-oxides are found in several plant families throughout the world. Pyrrolizidine alkaloids are potentially toxic to the liver and/or lungs in humans and may cause acute liver failure, cirrhosis, pneumonitis, or pulmonary hypertension. Pyrrolizidine alkaloids are also carcinogenic to animals, and they have been linked to the development of liver cancer and skin squamous cell carcinomas.

    Comfrey for skin
    Comfrey herb extract has wound healing effects when applied topically

    Comfrey ointment for arthritis
    Comfrey root extract ointment is helpful as a treatment of osteoarthritis of the knee.

    Back pain treatment
    Topical treatment with comfrey root extract ointment can reduce acute upper and lower back pain. Dr. Christiane Staiger, from Merck Selbstmedikation GmbH, Darmstadt, Germany, assessed back pain in 120 patients who were randomly assigned to receive 4 grams of comfrey root extract ointment or a placebo ointment three times daily for 5 days. Between the first and fourth (and final) follow-up assessment, pain intensity dropped by 95 percent in the comfrey root extract group, while pain was reduced by 39 percent in the placebo group. Pain relief after application of the extract was rapid, usually beginning in less than one hour. As pain improved, patients' mobility did also. Dr. Christiane Staiger says, "Comfrey root extract shows a remarkably potent and clinically relevant effect in reducing acute back pain." British Journal of Sports Medicine, 2009.

    About the plant
    Symphytum officinale is commonly found in Europe and Asia and is a member of the Borage and Forget-me-not family, Boraginaceae. Comfrey may grow about 3 feet high, blooms from early spring throughout the summer, and is distinguished by its yellow and sometimes purple bell-shaped flowers.

    questions
    I have read that chewing comfrey leaves will help a lot with asthma. Is this true, I have also read that it can damage other organs such as liver and kidneys.
    Yes, this herb has toxins which may damage the liver.

    I have used comfrey cream (mfd. by Merck) topically for rheumatic pain and found that it gives good results. I notice from the packet that this product should only be used for 10 days at a time and for 4-6 weeks per year max. I believe that the reasoning behind this is that the product contains pyrrolizidine alkaloids, which have been implicated in liver toxicity. I would like to be able to use the product daily, on a continuing basis. Do you consider it likely that problems would occur, were the product to be used on a continuous basis?
    Unfortunately not enough studies are available to determine the long term benefits and risks of comfrey cream use.

  • mikey10
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great post on Comfrey! However, for those of you who have doubts about using Comfrey internally, leaves or root in salad, juice, etc (I would stay away from the root until the jury is in). BUT, please consider harvesting the leaves every few weeks as a jump start for your compost pile or worm bin. That added to your worm bin should make for a complete, liquid organic fertilizer (see above instructions how I do worm tea). Worms have a thing called a "calciferous organ" which they use to encapsulate their castings in layers of calcium. This will dissolve along with the multiple other nutrients and micronutrients and beneficial bacteria and fungi to provide you with an unending source of COMPLETE organic fertilizer for your veggie garden, especially when Comfrey leaves are added.

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    equinoxequinox
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All this talk of comfrey reminds me of Biodynamic Preparation 500 - Cow Horn Manure, where various herbs and earths are added to a cow horn and buried over the winter. On first reading about it I thought it was simpleton hogwash. But now I see it is probably similar to brewing vermicompost tea. Both probably have their value in coaxing wee beasties, good bacteria, fungi, and other various unknown friends to join the soil party. As mikey10 says, a few leaves a week into your compost pile. The rabbits enjoy it and maybe chickens. "Worms have a thing called a "calciferous organ" which they use to encapsulate their castings in layers of calcium. This will dissolve along with the multiple other nutrients and micronutrients and beneficial bacteria and fungi to provide you with an unending source of COMPLETE organic fertilizer for your veggie garden," I believe this calcium coating is a way bigger deal to the workings of vermicompost than is ever talked about. Better than just any old calcium that may be in the soil due to its relationship to the process. Maybe it helps the plant roots talk to the nutrients.

  • jhovaldt1949
    8 years ago

    Hi I have had my red worms for at least two or three months but I have never had "tea" is this okay or is the bedding to dry. Thanks, jeannie

  • hummersteve
    8 years ago

    Ive been worming for 3yrs and never have any drainage. The so called drainage that some get though is not worm tea. True worm tea is made by using some of the finished castings in a container aerated with some molasses added. At least thats one way to do it. Check out youtube there is plenty there to show you how.


  • nexev - Zone 8b
    8 years ago

    Appreciate the bump on this old thread, nice reading on the comfrey/worm relationship as I have started with both of these over the last year. Put the leaves from a harvested plant under the carpet on my wormring (10' diameter 16" tall steel ring) a couple of days ago. The leaves have not begun to break down yet looking surprisingly fresh considering how quickly comfrey does normally wilt. I think next plant I harvest I will let it wilt in the sun for a couple of hours before adding it. My guess is that the carpet and moist horse manure in the bed are keeping it cool and refreshed.

    Steve, I have read as noted above regarding molasses in worm tea that it isnt needed. The bacteria will grow just fine its the fungi that are in low numbers and sugars will just boost the bacteria. Air looks to be the big thing you can do to make better tea.

  • hummersteve
    8 years ago

    Like I said that is one way to make it, it comes down to a matter of preference. There are those that dont even aerate the mix they just stir it by hand . Bacteria and fungi can both be used and molasses is the simple ingrediant I add along with a little kelp. I believe the molasses along with the aeration multiplies the bacteria. I will continue as Ive been doing as I feel I will get a greater benefit by doing it this way. Others disagree thats fine too , whatever floats your boat.


  • nexev - Zone 8b
    8 years ago

    Ahh, I dont disagree in fact very much on the whatever floats concept. I have been making chicken manure tea stale and anaerobic only getting boxed between buckets every few days. Let it cook a week or so then highly dilute and water around the plants. It seems to be helping greatly with the slow growth and yellowing leaves.

    My only mention of it was because the folks who count the bugs in there noted that with or without the molasses the bacteria thrived and the fungal stuffs did better with an alternate input. I have seen these tea recipes that get so packed with measured amounts of many different things. While I dont doubt they are some good stuff when it comes down to it any kind of rotting and decomposing OM is probably going to boost the soil life especially for poor soils like what we have.

  • hummersteve
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Seems like there are about as many ways to make worm tea and make it work as there are people. Im guessing though that your worm tea will only be as good as the worm castings used. So for me fresh is best so lately what Ive been doing is going to the drain tub of my factory 360 and that stuff looks like straight coffee grounds , it has been worked and worked and worked by the worms there are even still worms in there. I usually get about 2 cups from there worms and all. So my friends Im guessing and hoping its quality and not quantity of the castings used that will give you the final best end tea.

  • hummersteve
    7 years ago

    There has been a lot of discussion on whether to dilute worm tea or use it straight and it seems to be more people lean on the side of dilution. My thoughts are that along the way on the thought of brewing tea some people were thinking about leachate which in my mind is not worm tea. Any way they were warned to be sure and dilute this stuff when using on plants. I believe this thought process was just transferred over to real worm tea which is brewed using the actual worm castings. So now I find that 8-10 articles on the matter still say dilute the aact. If you need to dilute go ahead if you have especially tender plants that you think might react or if you just have oceans of area to spread around more. I dont have that , I have a few plants and a few veggies so my method of thinking--do I really want to dilute all the good billions of bacteria and microbes I have created for this purpose-- no , no and no I dont.

  • baldeagleomelette
    7 years ago

    Edward griffin's book World Without Cancer explains the science and the politics of cancer as well as anything I've found. It is also condensed into a forty five minute video synopsis on youtube ;)

    as for leachate, tea. I let it drain into the dirt and focus on castings. :)

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