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pskvorc

This is beginning to bother me...

pskvorc
9 years ago

If I leave a piece of vegetable matter - be it fruit or non-fruit - in my refrigerator for "too long", it turns into a 'science project'. This is in a COLD, "DRY", ENVIRONMENT. An environment intentionally NOT conducive to "science projects".

HOWEVER...

I can put that same piece of fruit or non-fruit vegetable matter in the blasted worm bin - a place that is WARM and MOIST and HIGHLY conducive to "mold and rot", AND A WEEK LATER IT LOOKS LIKE IT DID THE DAY I PUT IT IN THE WORM BIN! (The exception has been a tomato that "went away" PDQ in the worm bin.)

I'm NOT joking here. I have put SEVERAL different vegetable materials in my bins - materials that were "on their way out" in the refrigerator - that suddenly get a "new lease on life" when I put them in the worm bin. I find them essentially UNCHANGED after SEVERAL DAYS!

Forum decorum precludes use of my well-practiced, Navy-trained vernacular...

Paul

Comments (82)

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just for clarity, it wasn't EYE that threw the counter-top part of the 'experiment' away.

    Tomorrow, I'm gonna take some pictures of the slices in the worm bins.

    Paul

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I took some pictures of the bread slices in the bins this morning with my cell phone. They're not great pictures, but they get the point across I think. I'll post them a bit later. Still no new "growth".

    As I was giving this more thought, it occurred to me that it should have come as no surprise. "Mold" wasn't growing on ANYTHING, and this environment is just about as "perfect" for mold growth as one can create. EXCEPT that it has WORMS! There should be 'stuff' growing ALL OVER THE PLACE and there is not. EXCEPT spring-tails and worms.

    I'm actually fascinated by this. Much more of my 'thought time' will be devoted to this subject and what it "means", both for the subject at hand, and the "bigger picture".

    Paul

  • klem1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "it wasn't EYE that threw the counter-top part of the 'experiment' away"

    That proves what was said earier about what works for Peter doesn't nessarily work for Paul. Simply stated,"everyone in Paul's house doesn't share his enthusiam with worming and experimenting". snicker,snicker

  • dzignr_tastz
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well I'm not sure about your bread slices, but I know the relatively fresh donuts and leftover buns I threw in the bin (doing the low-carb thing and they were a birthday treat) were moldy, partially decomposing, and rather heated when I was forced to pull them out just a few days later. Not sure what the differences in the your particular substances are, but I've yet to throw anything in that looked 'the same' (let alone 'better' - LOL) within a couple of days.

    Then again, I also break everything up relatively well. Maybe I'll try a whole fruit and see how it goes...

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    More than you have reported molding when "things" aren't buried. By the same token, many besides me report that there is "no" mold in their indoor, plastic bins. SOMETHING is going on.

    I am genuinely intrigued.

    Paul

    PS - If I understand you correctly, you are not raising E, fetida, but rather "European earthworms". I believe that difference is sufficiently significant to render the 'events' in your bins as relatively non-comparable in the context of "compost worms". (Apples to oranges as it were.) European earthworms are NOT "compost worms". Manure is NOT the preferred food of "earth worms" when they are free-ranging. What they eat may actually be significantly different from what E. fetida eat.

    Paul

    This post was edited by pskvorc on Sat, May 17, 14 at 3:47

  • dzignr_tastz
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just to clarify... the items mentioned above were, in fact, buried (and not just "thrown in" on top of the bin contents.

    And you are correct; I am using Euro nighcrawlers as opposed to EFs. However, I don't believe that necessarily eliminates them from being part of the classification of "compost worms" (as they seem to do a relatively good job at the task, and are widely marketed and sold as such as well). The genus difference could definitely contribute to the bin differences to some extent, however, although I would think the environment as a whole (moisture rich bedding combined with spoiled foods) would contribute to the decomposition of an item more so than what species of worms are crawling around it. After all, the microbes do the decomposing... not the worms. Then again, what microbes the worms prefer could be a variable, as well as feeding frequency. So many possibilities... LOL!

    I am, however, also genuinely intrigued (solely because the whole situation sounds like an oxymoron), although I admittedly have limited experience and observation to add to the conversation at this point. ;)

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I said above that I would post images, so here they are better late than never:

    The next two images are of separate slices in separate bins on the fifth day AFTER being put in the bins. The slices from the same loaf that were left on the counter in the original bag were so COVERED in green mold by this time (looks blue in the pictures because of the poor white balance capabilities of cell-phone cameras), that my wife threw them out. (These first two pictures are blurred because of the low light. :( ) There is just a tiny bit of green mold starting on the lower right of the lower piece of bread.

    These next two pictures are of the same slices 24h later.

    On the third day, the ones left on the counter were WAY worse than the ones in the bin were on the SIXTH DAY! No 'bread' could be seen beneath the mold on the ones on the counter. I can still see "bread" on the ones in the bins and it has been 10 days after being put in the worm bins.

    Paul

  • nhrdls
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am wondering if this mechanism can be used for sprouting when we are getting ready to plant. I had some pumpkin seeds, few of them went to worm bin, I tried planting few and rest to compost pile.

    The one I tried planting have not shown any life so far. Don't know where the seeds are in compost bin.

    I was amazed at the sprouts I got back from worm bin. Guess everything it needs is there - moisture/darkness and fertilizer. I have pulled 8 sprouts out of worm bin and now trying to replant it. All the sprouts look extremely health with vigorous growth.

  • dzignr_tastz
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I too have pumpkin seeds spouting (or rather, small pants growing) in the primarily just grass clipping pile outside and about 10 or 12 cantaloupe seeds sprouting in my worm bin from a week ago. I would plant them, but they're store bought and potentially not non-GMO...

  • hops_on_pop
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    light exposure?

    that particular mold probably likes/needs more light to grow or perhaps the difference in humidity?

    there are also a larger number of competing microbes in your bin whereas I'd guess (and hope) that you bag of bread is relatively devoid of bacteria and other fungi compared to your bin

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's not "light". The bread molds faster in the dark bread box than it does in the light on the counter. It molds more vigorously when it is moist (in the bag), than when it is out and 'dry'. Putting it in the freezer substantially retards the growth of the white mold, but it does not stop it 'dead'.

    I'm reasonably well convinced that the biota as a whole in the the bin is responsible for the suppression of both the white and green molds.

    I was thinking about the practical application (outside the operating room), especially in the context of germination. "Damping off" - mold forming at the base of a seeding - is an issue for germinating trays. For a moment I thought germinating in a worm bin might have some possibility, but then the cynical realization that as soon as we WANT to suppress mold formation in a worm bin, it will flourish like it was the "Genesis Project".

    Paul

  • mendopete
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One of the things that got me interested in vermicomposting were the claims that worm castings and tea prevented or helped suppress mold in plants.
    I live in a damp climate and have problems with mold on some plants. I have tried my aerated teas with some success. It seems to help with some "lighter-colored" powdery leaf molds, but no help on my "black-spot" mold on rose leaves.
    Volunteer pumpkin starts appear in castings, and they grow very well.
    I plant pole bean seeds in a "V" notch in the ground 2" deep with castings, and get nearly 100% sprouts. Very healthy plants.
    Some nursery's use castings as starter medium.
    Maybe related?
    I am more "Greek" than "Roman" and more a fisherman than a gardener (conflicting season...priorities!). Go with extra-sour dough.

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wonder how bread boxes ever became a kitchen necessity. Did nobody notice they did not work? Apparently, mold cannot live by bread alone. Now at least we know which side our bread is buttered on. Wide-eyed I see the result is the greatest thing since... since... since... sliced bread! Competition for real estate: mouldy penicillin vs microbe.

    "How can a nation be great if its bread tastes like Kleenex?" --Julia Child

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Who - besides you, equinoxequinox- said bread boxes "don't work"? As far as I'm concerned, they "work" just fine as a decorative item on a kitchen counter that 1) looks appealing, and 2) hides from view things I want hidden from view.

    Who - besides you, equinoxequinox- said bread boxes were a "necessity"? There are plenty of "things" in just about everyone's houses that aren't "necessities": Stuffed couches, box springs, coffee tables, end tables, televisions, radios, vacuum cleaners, and MOST of the things we choose to enhance the environment we live in - a home. Rather, those are the things we choose to have around us to render our environment a bit more appealing and pleasing to the eye or convenient. Bread boxes are a decorative item, not a necessity. Humans - by the millions - have demonstrated that all that is really "necessary" for "life" is a cardboard box. Cardboard boxes don't "work" for ME.

    The contents of my house are not there for "approval" by the "necessity police". They are there because they please me OR I WANT them. The pictures I have of my children gracing the walls of my home are not "necessities". If you choose to leave your bread out on the counter, I can assure you that I will not complain or cast a judgmental eye. Apparently, the converse does not apply.

    Paul

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was referring to 1950's era housewives for who a bread box was indeed a necessity. It often matched the containers for flour, sugar, tea, rice, coffee and sometimes even a cake tin. Nobody ever had a wedding shower without one. One needed one to have a proper kitchen. I had not given any thought to your specific bread box. Strangely, today, Jack n Jill many youngens would be confused what one was even for. Either way I thought your experiment and the results were interesting. What it all means should be very interesting.

  • dzignr_tastz
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I personally think bread boxes work, and perhaps some of the basic fundamentals I've seen in regards to how they work might apply to this situation as well.

    First, let me disclose I don't personally own a bread box, but after noticing that bread loaves that were left on my kitchen island molded relatively quickly (I'm assuming due to both the light and heat from the skylight directly above it) I, due to my admitted lack of a proper bread box, started keeping it in one of my kitchen cabinets which greatly increased the time it took mold to form.

    I can only assume the darkness and cooler temps contributed to this phenomena? If so, perhaps the darkness and moist, cooler temps of the surrounding substrate of a bin helps inhibit mold growth as well?

  • chuckiebtoo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A great place for brand-newbies to go to find out about bins, and bedding, and stuff to feed the wormies, and moisture content, and acidity, and what to do if a mass evacuation puts a damper on your exciting new hobby, and ways to prepare foodstuff for your herd, and lots of other great information: the archives of this vermicomposting site.

    Chuckiebtoo

    Moderation, Patience, Diversity

  • sbryce_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bread boxes were invented to provide panelists on What's My Line with a standard item with which to make size comparisons.

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The 'archives' ARE a wealth of information, but mining that mother-lode is challenging. That challenge is exacerbated by:
    1) "Cute" titles to threads that don't lend themselves to comprehending the topic discussed in the thread, (I am certainly guilty of this though I try to minimize it),
    2) A wide range of topics discussed within one thread, (I try harder NOT to do this), and
    3) A relatively weak search engine,

    to name three causes for frustration by "brand-newbies" when they are told "That's been asked a hundred times. Go do some research before you ask questions here."

    I am always surprised at the indignation expressed by "oldies" when "newbies" come looking for information without having performed what the "oldies" consider "proper research". NO ONE is OBLIGATED to read, let alone respond to, ANY question posed at an internet forum. Furthermore, newbies are routinely admonished to "look through the archives" and yet the person taking the effort to admonish, takes no effort to provide assistance - like offering links on the topic the "newbie" is being told to "go find". It is reasonable to presume that the person ("oldie") telling the "newbie" to go find information on such a "common" topic, knows EXACTLY where to find all the salient threads on the topic, and are only withholding that assistance for some 'power trip'. Otherwise, why make the "effort" to comment at all, when the only effort it would take to be HELPFUL would be to list the links all of the OBVIOUS sources of information. If they were so "common" and "easily found", why don't the "oldies" keep such a list at their fingertips? Now THAT would be helpful!

    If a forum is like a library of knowledge, a librarian recommending that someone "go find the book yourself" when there is NO card catalog or any other reasonable means to determining where a "book" might be, is... well a few adjectives come to mind, but I think I'll leave it to those that choose to read this post to select their own.

    Other forums I participate in have "stickies" and other devices to aid "newbies" in finding threads on topics that are basic, and questions that are asked repeatedly. Even businesses now take the time to ASSIST people by offering a "FAQ" location (Frequently Asked Questions), WITH answers AND links, on their websites. This site has neither of those devices.

    Finally, there is no guarantee that the information one finds in the "archives" is:
    1) Correct,
    2) "The Latest",
    3) Complete, or
    4) Without contradiction in several different threads "researched".
    One determines those four points by asking questions in a CONTEMPORARY thread. Too often in my opinion, one is told 'in so many words', "I know the answer to your question, but I'm not going to tell you because you haven't "paid your dues" HERE."

    As a "brand-newbie" (apparently "more" newbie than JUST "newbie"), at this site, I have received A LOT of assistance from folks that DIDN'T tell me "I know the answer, but I'm not going to tell you." I appreciate that immensely. When/if it is appropriate for me to share my knowledge on the subject of vermicomposting/vermiculture, I will do so gladly and WITH assistance, or I'll not comment. The choice of how to respond to a request for help, or even whether to respond or not, is - as always - mine.

    Paul

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As I vaguely recall and guess (and could probably search) your first post was informative as to your interests and situation and plans, showed you had spent considerable effort and time before asking for a tiny bit of our time. Your first post probably quickly gave an enticing peek into your enthusiasm for the hobby looking at it in a new light than we had in the past. Long sleeping experts probably arose from comfortable slumber and leapt to their keyboards in reply knowing you would be interested in their comments. I think we did. It was good times. We were glad (that must be the royal we) and excited to have a new poster with quality posts. Your replies reflected the research you had put into the questions. All was good and the world was happy. At least the worm world.

    Other first time posters have spent zero time, effort or interest in the topic. Their replies reflect that. Though I doubt most lackluster first posters even bother to make the effort to return and read their replies. They certainly never bother to post a second time.

    What we are looking for in first time posts is that they bring a pencil to class. They do not need to speak English well or have studied vermicomposting for longer than two minutes or even have studied anything, but they need to show an active interest past one dull post. Possibly the professor should spend more time on those who do not have these skills as they need the most help. That would burn us out and nobody would be left to answer your good questions. Instead we turned a dull eye to them and saved our energy for you. Your posts seemed worth our effort.

    "That's been asked a hundred times. Go do some research before you ask questions here." So we answered their questions 100 times. We told them where to look for the answers the next 1000 times. The 1,001st times a person asks a question that is explained in the second sentence in any article about vermicomposting. I am surprised some of us, not me, are still able to respond with maximum enthusiasm and encouragement. I a glad every time I read one of our veteran posters with that much gladness in their hearts and enthusiasm to help. They do a great job and I am thankful for them.

    Taking the option of not replying is OK too. But then a newbie with a massively lacking first post, two hours into it accuses (and I could search it) "nobody replied to my post, you meanies."

    Those who have been holding the fort, waiting for enthusiastic, interesting, innovative posters like yourself to reply to have gotten a bit burnt around the edges. I am glad this will not happen to you as you have the option to have reclused yourself from the newbie onslaught. If you have a change of heart, and as you have quickly moved from a newbie to an innovator in the topic, I do invite you to answer the next 1,000 newbies and lets see what your post looks like to the 1,001st poster with no pencil on the first day of class. Suggesting they look at the archives would be kind to a poster who never even signs on to the web-sight again. Doing the search for them would be very kind and maybe there is something more valuable to the world you could be spending your time on instead.

    Moderation, Patience, Diversity: It's bigger than a bread box and it's not just for worms.


  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Finally, there is no guarantee that the information one finds in the "archives" is:
    1) Correct,
    2) "The Latest",
    3) Complete, or
    4) Without contradiction in several different threads "researched".

    Correct. But in order to ask a good question of the board or any board, subject, topic or area of interest anywhere in any venue one might need to know the tiniest bit of common knowledge of the history of a topic. Entering a board is sort of like entering a classroom in progress. One can not expect the class start again at the beginning for every person who enters the class three weeks late. One needs to catch up, get up to speed. Newbies are entering a dance in progress or entering a highway of information and need to merge gracefully. Theirs is the sign that says yield. We are traveling at highway speeds. We will jack up the breaks and full stop for those with real need and interest in the topic. Or even a slight nodding glance of an attempt at it. It is up to the newbie poster to have a post that entices the expert posters, the regular posters, the poster that may be the only one on the board with the exact answer they need, the sometimes poster, another newbie poster, a poster who has never posted before, their audience is vast. They only need to have a post that is alive, not dead in the water. It is not too much to ask. We do not get paid very well.

    "One determines those four points by asking questions in a CONTEMPORARY thread." The search engine has options where one can ask it to return only items of interest that have new information from the last year, month, week, day, or hour. This is where all newbies born under the sign of the computer have known since they were seven to look. Us oldies should know or ask any child how to do this. Grandchildren are often a blessing in this arena.

    One can either spend time posting or taking care of their worms. Others have probably chosen more wisely than I.

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is a difficult subject to discuss without playing the "blame and guilt" game. Unless I'm dealing with abject arrogance, (which I don't believe I am here), I don't like to play that game. It never accomplishes what I hope to accomplish with the discussion. Genuinely NOT wanting to appear patronizing, I want to express my appreciation that you have not started 'blame and guilt'.

    I disagree with most of your rationalizations and even the 'spirit' of your responses, which is clearly "us and them" in nature.

    The primary 'problem' I have with the "us and them" perspective, is that it suggests - strongly - that "time" as a member of this (or any) forum somehow grants "entitlement" or "credential". Entitlement to decide how a new member is supposed to act. Credential on the value of what is posted regardless of it's actual merit. Time on this site does not grant entitlement or credential.

    Many, certainly even most, that have an arm-long list of academic credentials insist that their credentials somehow verify their "expertness" or validate their arguments. That's wrong. If one's arguments cannot stand on their own, and instead require "credential" (whatever form that may take), to authorize them, then those arguments are weak, vacuous, specious, and usually wrong. All the credentials in the world can't make a false premise true.

    No credentials are afforded by this forum, although I have seen others that do. I find those sites not worth my time. No one comes to one of these sites knowing "who's who". Nor should they unless the site chooses to 1) provide labels such as "guru", or "grand poobah", etc.,2) designate "official resident newbie question answerers". This site does not.

    I simply cannot find justification for COMMENT without assistance, and the reason is simple: NO ONE IS FORCED TO ANSWER ANY POST. Period. Until I am FORCED - God only knows how that could happen - to answer questions posed on an open internet forum THAN HAS NO FAQ LOCATION, I am "insensitive" to arguments that suggest or demand that "newbies" perform some UNDEFINED level of "work" before they are afforded HELPFUL response.

    If an "oldie" doesn't want to respond to a "newbie's" questions until the "newbie" has met some arbitrary criteria, (specifically defined only in the "oldie's" head), the ONLY thing the "oldie" has to do is keep their opinion to themselves. If the "newbie" hasn't the patience to wait for a congenial response, there is NO reason/justification for indignation by ANY "oldie" at the "newbie's" impatience because it is not POSSIBLE that the "newbie" was directing their petulance at a specific "oldie" because they couldn't have known who the "oldie" was because the "oldie" DIDN'T RESPOND.

    As to me answering 1001 questions:

    I own two internet forums. The first of them I have been on since 2002. I have some experience with "newbies". My sites also have "Stickies" with OBVIOUS places for new-comers to go to find FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS. They also have specific people - people that LIKE "newbies" - designated to respond to new-comers' questions. I have answered more than "1000" newbie questions, and I continue to do so as if the question was asked for the very first time. The reason I do is precisely BECAUSE I AM a "newbie" on most of what makes up human endeavors, AND because I HAVE A CHOICE TO ANSWER OR NOT. Personally, I am not "offended" when a novice gets "excited" or even "snippy" when they don't get an answer to their questions in what they consider a 'timely' manner, and as the forum owner, I actually DO have some grounds for "righteous indignation".

    Many newbies are actually NEW to internet forums and not only haven't 'learned the ropes' of internet forum social behavior, they haven't been around long enough to have been BURNED so that they do the obligatory genuflecting when they first introduce themselves.

    Until a new-comer demonstrates bad behavior, I assume they are reasonable people and act accordingly. Genuine jerks, ones that no one cares to 'have around' usually show their colors PDQ. It's their nature, and they can't hide it for long.

    This site, at least to my knowledge, doesn't have "signatures". On other sites that do, my signature is "You will know them by their fruit." That pretty much defines how I view the world today. I hope, and I work toward, my fruit being 'sweet', not 'sour'. That costs me nothing I am not willing to give away.

    Paul

    PS - In all honesty, I can't imagine that I could provide much assistance to a "newbie" considering that the sum of my first-hand experience with vermiculture is now about 2 months. About all I have to offer is observation of my bins (the topic of this thread by the way), and my opinions on the merits of various "scientific" assertions. I try to qualify my comments regarding "worming" by pointing out the extent of my first-hand experience, and to note what is OPINION borne of "research", (AKA 'paper-whipping') not experience.

    Paul

    This post was edited by pskvorc on Fri, May 23, 14 at 13:35

  • barbararose21101
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This thread has some Experiences of Interest to worm whackos.
    Maybe we could repost the best of it under a better subject title ?

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "We"... :)

    I'm all 'for' the idea, barbararose, I'm just not sure how to 1) select the "best" parts of it, and 2) perform the excising of the "not best" part(s). Since I started this thread, I am willing to 1) "authorize"/encourage anyone to perform the "best" selection and excision, and 2) help where possible.

    On a personal level, I think a single thread with links to "interesting" threads is the simplest 'solution' to provide newcomers, and those of us just looking for interesting threads. I acknowledge three fundamental problems with that. 1) How do we keep that thread "at the top" of the forum, 2) after the time limit for editing is past, how do we keep the links near the top of the THREAD. (New additions would have to be "down" in the thread because editing a post isn't possible after some arbitrary time Garden Web has decided is "enough".) And 3) Who is going to decide what goes in this "special" thread?

    All of the above issues are completely mitigated by using a forum software package that isn't archaic. Unfortunately, that means the expenditure of MONEY. Garden Web dragged their feet for years over the addition of as trivial a feature as an "editing" capability. I can't imagine that improving the capabilities of this site is something they would willingly do unless they got a "government grant".

    The more we 'discuss' this, the more I am coming to the conclusion that a "new" vermicomposting site, one that employs at least a reasonably "modern", (created in the last 10 years), software package, is the only practical solution. It would be nice to say I am willing to start such a forum, but I'm not. I have my hands more than full with the two I currently manage. I'd have to "go commercial" to be able to take on another forum. However, there are lots of people here at this site that are perfectly capable of starting, and running, an internet forum.

    Just a thought.

    Paul

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yesterday a well respected worm-head, Bentley the Compost Guy Christie has just done just that. His e-mail to me:

    In Other News
    Are you looking for a GREAT place to ask questions and interact with other RWC "worm-heads"? We now have our very own Facebook discussion group! While it's been fun watching the RWC "Fan Page" accumulate thousands of fans (we're up past 8800 as I type this), it really hasn't served as a great platform for connecting with all of you. Groups on the other hand, are much more lively and interactive. They also tend to be a lot less one-sided (won't go quiet just because I am slow to post anything).
    I know not everyone is a "fan" of Facebook in general (been there, done that, bought the t-shirt) - but if you are even remotely on the fence, I highly recommend giving it a shot to see what you think! It's a worm-head party, and you are definitely invited! :-)
    Here is where you join (I need to approve everyone but I've been very on top of that so it shouldn't take long):
    http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=MuXol&m=InhwgP1cmVzJzD&b=Xt80NNJBBJIjXVgn2E369Q
    We are just shy of 270 members as I write this (most of them actually joining in the last week, surprisingly enough) - can only imagine where things will go from here. "

    I'm not on Facebook so I'm unsure of the quality of the site. But for those who are let us know if it is any good.

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not a big fan of Facebook pages or groups simply because FaceBook has a VERY heavy hand. Furthermore, they are a long arm's length LEFT of Karl Marx. While this fellow Bentley the Compost Guy Christie, "runs" the show at some administrative level (approving new members, for example), the fact is, FaceBook has the last say in EVERYTHING that goes on there. Period. And it only takes one "complaint" about ANTHING to get FB to come in with a machete. They don't ask questions. They don't "investigate". They simply hack. Furthermore, the NSA has it's hand a LONG WAY up FaceBook's skirt.

    I'll have a look at the site, but I belong to a couple of FB "groups", and I spend very little time there because "it's FaceBook".

    The above should motivate some here to fly to the site!

    Paul

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Crossing my legs and drawing my skirt tight around my ankles.

    What you mention are critical issues. We clearly need a place not Facebook. Possibly Bentley will not enjoy the Facebook swipe of the claw on non Facebook approved topics and move himself. So where then?

    Or are we stuck back here in "posts vanish land"?

    I'll post where I'm invited.

    I also follow the good posters (on any topic) as that is where all the information is.

    I followed good posters I wanted to read to here from elsewhere that was not meeting their needs.

  • Jasdip
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This vermicomposting site is about the most active one I've seen/been on. Yahoo used to have one and it shut down, because of low activity. I'm not sure that vermicomposters dot com is active any more.I didn't find it all that user friendly. There was another site that Chuckie used to belong to, and I think it's all but closed as well.

    On the topic that this thread was started, I put some jicama in my bin that I recently bought. I guess jicama is out of season, it's hard to find around here (Canada) but it makes a lovely salad. It was brown when I cut into it so I cut it up for the lads and fed then last week. I checked today and all the pieces are blue with mold. I don't normally have mold in my bin. Do they really like moldy food? I was tempted to pull it all out of the bin, but I seem to remember that they like it.

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This site is active because we chose to post here. That was mostly because it was the only site on the topic that even functioned correctly. This or it could have been another site did not function correctly and nobody new could join. Like the site stopped working and the posters wondered why nobody new was joining. New joiners could not join. The site was broke. Had that site fixed what was broken many of us would no doubt be posting there and had no need to look further to here.

    I have not fed the worms during this summer but I did shred up TP tubes for them. Fish tank water has also been poured over the worm inn and collected to dump over them again. In the darkest, coldest winter when nobody wants to venture to the outdoor compost bin to handle a bit of kitchen scraps the worm inn will be needing some material.

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    equinonxequinox - I think for the time being, we do ourselves the best service by hanging around here until 'something' comes up. Most folks seem to agree that this is at least one of the best worming sites on the web if not the best. It certainly appears to be to me. That is in spite of the archaic forum software. Put another way: The quality of this forum is due to it's members, not the forum or its administration.

    Part of the reason for this site's success is, I think, in large part due to the fact that it is not the child of a worming business. While it is a commercial site, Garden Web is not primarily, or at all for all I know, marketing worms or worm-related products. All of the worm sites I visited before landing here, were in one way or another the 'spawn' of a commercial worming venture, and the forums associated with those businesses were too myopically focused on the particular business.

    Do they really like moldy food?
    At this point, jasdip, my response is "God only knows." I think there are certain foodstuffs that are only worm-compatible once they've molded or been otherwise 'broken down'. But I am hesitant to say that they "like" moldy stuff as a general rule.

    Paul

  • chuckiebtoo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It must also be contagious because It's beginning to bother me, too.

    Jasdip.....Worms love it. If I find a moldy....anything, it goes into my "slop" jar.

    Chuckiebtoo

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here it is then.

    Shredded TP tubes I'm just loving as bedding for the worms. They seem to hold their structure thus have a good ratio of air flow to moisture. One can almost feel the sloppy, moldy food giving up the slime to the cardboard and making the cardboard tasty for the worms too. I have only been working with the tubes shredded for a few months. I hope they continue to work as well as they break down.

  • OrganicAdam
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This in regards to the initial post, I gave upon putting whole pieces of food scraps in my bin it just takes to long to break down. SO I puree everything In my food processor (if to moist strain it with a flour sifter) then feed it to my wormies. I have very fast results feeding this way. hope I was of help. Keep on wormin on!

  • lucky123
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Those bread molds may have come in on baked products and are just "there" in the kitchen
    It may be that the worm bins are "cleaner" than your refrigerator or your counter. The type of molds and other science project artifacts are adapted to the kitchen environment and not to the worm bins in terms of heat and humidity.
    There isn't much you can do because as any sourdough bread maker knows, those yeasts, molds and other interesting plant life are just "there."

    This post was edited by lucky123 on Sun, Aug 31, 14 at 15:11

  • chuckiebtoo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OrganicAdam: "SO I puree everything In my food processor (if to moist strain it with a flour sifter) then feed it to my wormies."

    OA....I also puree some/most of the time but I really try to avoid straining off juices. Ever since I began that, I never put any other moisture in bins. That liquid does the trick and it is appealing to the worms.

    I just spoon a dollop (dollop: portion, small amount, spoonful, or wad based on my experience of the amount usually eaten) of it...liquid included into a little mound (spot feeding). Doing it this way kinda reverses the way I try to keep the bins at proper moisture levels.

    A day or so prior to the time to feed I will remove the lids and allow a little of the moist conditions to un-moisturize allowing for the new moisture being introduced to the bins. Sometimes use a little electric fan. (Must say that my bins are all plastic) Usually add a little new DRY shredded newspaper (only the opinion pages)

    Chuckiebtoo

    Moderation, PATIENCE*, Diversity

    *Heavy on the patience 'cause lots of posters are always starting off intent on faster, quicker, hurry. Thing is, it takes a while to produce vermicompost that is finely completed vermicompost. Worms are natural. Chemicals are in a hurry.

  • OrganicAdam
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    pskvorc, I am very familiar with the scientific term "Dollop"...lol. I will avoid straining the pureed scraps next time I feed cuz I mist my bin with filtered water to keep the newspaper moist(which covers my castings ), its 90 degrees F. here everyday even though its very humid here the news paper dries out quick.. I always hear nigtmares of bins being to wet(I don't use drain holes) but my worms don't seem to mind a little moisture. Keep on worming on.... PS. I do need to work on my patience..lol I just want it now!!! lol

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I will avoid straining the pureed scraps next time" I feel better. Now the worms are getting the nutrients that used to be thrown down the sink as garbage.

  • chuckiebtoo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Do they really like moldy food?
    At this point, jasdip, my response is "God only knows." I think there are certain foodstuffs that are only worm-compatible once they've molded or been otherwise 'broken down'. But I am hesitant to say that they "like" moldy stuff as a general rule.

    Paul"

    Wrong, Paul. they absolutely, for sure, scientifically- exhibited, field-operation tested, LOVE moldy stuff. God, and myself, and millions...if not billions, of others know the truth.

    Wormies love mold. It makes them....squirm. Aspire to greater things. Be tolerant of natures' seemingly harsh grudge against them.

    It is, perhaps, the aspiration objective that gives them hope.

    Chuckiebtoo

    Moderation, Patience, Diversity, Hope

    BTW, my first draft of this post was "declined" by moderation because I equated mold to the boner pill for worms.

  • 11otis
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ""This site is active because we chose to post here. That was mostly because it was the only site on the topic that even functioned correctly.""
    And unlike vermicomposters.com., this site has no spammers.
    BTW., I don't do FB either.

  • 11otis
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BREAD.
    I have a friend who has a friend with access to bread from a bakery that are older than "day old" and I got quite a bit of that sometime last year. Now I have a lot what I think are flour beetles, dark brown to black, almost round ones and skinny long ones. They do have wings but most scurry around in the bins and they are very fast. They very seldom use their wings but I have seen the occasional did fly.
    I don't think they bother the worms so far.
    Anyone have them too? Wonder where they came from. Never seen them before I fed that much bread to the worms, at least not visible to me.

    And yes, moldy bread takes longer to break down. So I guess, in a way, these beetles are helpful. I just don't like the sight of them scurrying around as soon as I lift the lid.

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They could be adult Tenebrio molitor, but I'd have to see a picture to tell for sure. You shouldn't be seeing adults unless there have been "worms" (larvae) and pupae, but if you have left your bins "alone" for a while, you could have missed the early life-stages.

    T. molitor eat almost nothing but grain products, and not in the "rotten" form. In other words grain, processed grain like flower and meal, and "bread". If you feed your worms "lots" of grain products, I suppose you could sustain a population of T. molitor but without grain and grain products, they should die off within a couple of months. The adults are less of an "issue" than the larvae are. In a water or food stressed' environment, the larvae will actually eat the adults. I suppose but do not know that they could eat Eisenia fetida in all of its life stages.

    All of THAT said, they may not be T. molitor.

    Paul

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wrong, Paul. they absolutely, for sure, scientifically- exhibited, field-operation tested, LOVE moldy stuff. God, and myself, and millions...if not billions, of others know the truth.

    Now there's a "moderate" comment...

    So... If I understand the above assertion correct, the "truth" is that all I have to do is get something, anything on the planet regardless of its toxicity, to mold, and it is rendered the equivalent of "the little blue pill" for worms?

    While I am comfortable making fairly strong statements about the likelihood of something happening, I have long since learned the danger of asserting knowledge of absolute truth. The danger I am concerned with is not of being wrong when the inevitable more "truth" is revealed, but rather of misleading others before that "new" truth is discovered. Good thing the "truth" of this matter has been "scientifically exhibited" to "millions" and possibly "billions". I'll make an assumption of hyperbole for emphasis, there.

    Paul

  • chuckiebtoo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My exaggerated hyperbole was meant as emphasis of the truth of worms loving mold. They might not be totally enamored with the host entity that the mold is attached to, but they LOVE the mold.

    It's just a little bit like what we humans have done when we pay extra to be able to eat aged heavy beef (which is a polite way of saying "decomposing meat").

    The biology of both the wormies lunch and our steak are in various stages of decomposition causing much more desirable dining experiences.

    That said, I ain't eatin liver at any stage.

    Chuckiebtoo

    Moderation, Patience, Diversity, Vegan Resistance


    This post was edited by chuckiebtoo on Mon, Sep 1, 14 at 22:06

  • 11otis
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Paul: I googled Tenebrio molitor and it said, the adult size is 1.25 cm +. My oval beetles are about 1 mm (about the size of Fungus Gnats, only a bit rounder) and the elongated ones are between 5 to 8 mm long. I do not see them in larva stage, too small?
    They do not seem to consume grain product exclusive, they are in the juice pulp fed also but the grain products seem to be their fave.

    This post was edited by otis11 on Tue, Sep 2, 14 at 17:28

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Too small to be T. molitor. The adults I have always seen are about that 1.25 cm that you read about. I don't know what "your" worms are.

    Paul

  • FrancoiseFromAix
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As a newbie, I'm doing my home work reading some threads :-)

    I found great answers in very old threads. Like, for example, I gather stuff in the wild when walking the dogs, and suddenly wondered about feeding poisonous mushrooms to the worms... better to keep them, the mushrooms, for the tax collector or my beloved in laws ;-)

    I just wanted to tell you guys that this forum is the best I found. And this is despite the fact that you kill your worms to go fishing and I treasure mine so much that it bothers me deep down ;-)

    So I hope you'll all go on posting, quarelling (very funny sometimes), sermoning, and above all : wondering, questioning, testing, and spreading your knowledge and experience.

    I'm very grateful to you guys. Honestly, I am.

    I just wanted you to know that you're internationally appreciated ;-)

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I only quarrel because I am paid by our owners to do so in order to keep up the readership. Think written vermicomposting soap opera for your enjoyment. I'm glad you enjoy our work. I bet many readers can see the events in their minds eye. We are like that painting of dogs on black velvet playing poker. Yes we are very funny sometimes. We get overtime for that. And they sometimes they toss us a biscuit.

    I feel guilty tossing some items into the worm bin. Possibly I need some chickens so the higher level kitchen waste can be put to the best use. But then in the winter when there is much less kitchen waste it might not work out so well for the worms when there are chickens to feed.

  • chuckiebtoo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How much international appreciation does it take to outweigh international search warrants, wanted posters, and APB's?

    Chuckiebtoo

    Moderation, Patience, Diversity, Invisibility

  • FrancoiseFromAix
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @equinow : :-)) I wish I got a job like yours then, and I would be more rude and use all the F words I know for threads to be even more lively !

    Honest you feel guilty ? I harvested may zucchinis and "forgot" them in the fridge, then put the forgotten hence rotten poor zukes in the bin without feeling guilty. Dc Freud would be proud ;-)

    @Chuck : Snowden's bodyguard ?

  • pskvorc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Welcome, FrancoiseFromAix.

    Aix. Hmm...
    Wood duck - Aix sponsa
    Mandarin duck - Aix galericulata

    What's this about Aix France and duck genera then? :)

    Paul

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