Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
jim08204

The Burlap Effect

jim08204
13 years ago

Special thanks to Mendopete for mentioning the use of burlap in bins. I cut a piece, folded it to make 4 layers and laid it on top of my bins. I then added a layer of composted cow manure, fruits and veggies and soaked it with ACVT. Not only do the worms seem to enjoy playing in the burlap, it makes harvesting very easy, as I just lift the burlap up and out and let them all slide off into a tray. - Jim

Comments (60)

  • lkittle
    13 years ago

    Hi All; I just thought that with the other thread about cocoon harvesting and shipping to friends the burlap might help with some of the seperating out of the cocoons. It also gives a way to see the little buggers more quickly. I got the idea from C Morgans little books the books make a good little infromation liberary. I have all of his books for a referance liberary.

  • gardenfanatic2003
    13 years ago

    How long do you leave the burlap with the "goodies" in it for the worms to migrate up into it? I'd like to try it, but I'm wondering how long it would need to sit there for most of the worms to migrate into it.

    Deanna

  • mendopete
    13 years ago

    Deanna, I do not add food to the burlap. I just soak it and lay down on top of the bed. I put food under it. Yesterday I soaked a new bag in AVCT for about 10 minutes, let it drip for a minute, and placed over the top of my older burlap. Today it looked like a pin cushion with worms dangling out of the weave. I usually see mature worms in the material until the cocoons start hatching. This occurs when the material is falling apart.
    Pete

  • jim08204
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Deanna- I use manure and food on top and the worms are in it the next day. I did two harvests this way. The burlap showed wear on the second, but it looks like I was able to remove about 1/2 the worms out of the bin. - Jim

  • Jasdip
    13 years ago

    I used to use burlap regularly to harvest.
    Lay the burlap on top of the new bin. Spread inch or so of vc and worms on top of the burlap under a light and they naturally migrate through into the new bin. Have a coffee or do some housework, come back, scoop the castings into your storage container, spread out some more dirt with worms, and leave them alone again.

    The burlap doesn't last long, so I now use an orange bag that large bags of carrots and onions comes in. Works the same easy way for harvesting, and lasts longer.

  • 11otis
    9 years ago

    I was going to mention the good use of burlap again for new worm farmers to catch up but thought bumping this thread would be better.
    I'd like to add: maybe another reason why worms like burlap so much to leave their cocoons in, the holes between the weave aided them to shed their cocoons. When it's time to shed a cocoon, just reverse their gear and voila!

  • sonshine_07
    9 years ago

    Ohh I like this. Especially the idea of using burlap for harvesting. I am HOPING to harvest in a month or so. I will ask my favorite coffee shop if they have burlap to spare.

    I have an old shopping bag on top of my bin now that is burlap-esque but the worms don't seem to take much notice of it. As far as putting it IN the bin, it sounds like some have used it as a cover and some used it as a lining...I wonder where worms like to leave their cocoons most--at the top, bottom, or middle?

  • hummersteve
    9 years ago

    Burlap is not easy to find in my neck of the woods. I saw one at lowes and they wanted $17 for it , what is it made of gold.

  • mendopete
    9 years ago

    Still a BIG fan of burlap. Great for breeding, harvesting, adding structure to your bin, or just keeping in moisture. My use has evolved, as the coffee bean sacks are first inoculated with fish prior to use in the bins ;)

    I get mine from a coffee roaster/supplier, not a coffee house. My source goes through double-digit bags every day. Unless a coffee house roasts their own beans, they would not likely have sacks available.

    Burlap is great and worms love it, but I would not spend much $ for it.

  • pskvorc
    9 years ago

    Just want to track thread.

    Paul

  • 11otis
    9 years ago

    mendopete is right about the source for burlap.
    Starbucks will NOT have them unless you go to where they are roasted.
    There are several coffee houses here around town that do their own roasting. I have to compete with farmers and produce markets for them. Farmers use them to cover their crop against frost and markets use them to cover their products overnight. Once in a while I managed to get about 15 at a time.
    However, I think the coffee farmers are switching and use synthetic/weaved plastic sacks instead. Bummer.
    I am beginning to become a hoarder. What I don't do for worms, sigh.

  • barbararose21101
    9 years ago

    Good morning. It is 7:30 am Pacific time. I just want to ask EQ2 if getting burlap at a decent price is worth driving an hour -- each way. ; )
    I'll try a little harder closer first, of course. If I make the drive, I could get a lifetime supply. (Craigslist)

    Since no one reads all the posts, I'll double up: why do people put VC in bags to make tea ? I like straining it after it's bubbled . And I leave it bubbling for a week or longer cuz I have more VC than I need tea from. The result is that the plastic net that the airstone is in , plus the moving water, breaks down the VC to smooth silty mud. Seems that there isn't much left to put back in the bin if I've retrieved the cocoons. Once in a while a few worms are in the net that hatched and grew in the aging VC. TMI to explain my question why put VC in bags to brew ?

  • pskvorc
    9 years ago

    For what it's worth, if I were to drive an hour one-way to buy ANYTHING, I'd probably get 'a lot' of it at one time in hopes of amortizing the cost of travel over many uses. (Your 'lifetime supply'.) BUT... one would have to have the "many uses" for that concept to be valid.

    Not having made any VC tea myself, I can only speculate that the reason for putting the VC in a bag when 'brewing' VCT is to prevent 'agitation' of the contents of the VC.

    Again speaking without first-hand experience, I'd think NOT bagging it would better produce the results EYE was after: maximum mixing of VC with all the EXTRA stuff people seem to insist on adding to "VC" tea to make it "good". Like sea weed extract, molasses, etc.

    The whole VCT 'thing' smacks of voodoo to me. No offence meant to those that practice that form of voodoo. Clearly it has produced some positive results with respect to plant growth. I just suspect that much of the process is unnecessary to the desired end result, and is practiced more because "the experts said so" rather than "if I don't add component "X", it doesn't work as well".

    I wonder what would happen in a double-blind experiment if "regular" compost (NOT worm compost) was fermented with molasses and kelp extract and used as "fertilzer".

    I had that 'slap up side the head' by the person that presented the vermicomposting seminar I attended. When I mentioned all the hoops I was jumping through to get "compost", she cut to the point and said: "If it were me, I'd just put the goat manure directly on my garden." The realization of the simplicity of that was a little embarrassing to recognize and acknowledge.

    Paul

  • mendopete
    9 years ago

    Burlap is quite useful in the garden as an organic weed blocker. I have built "lasagna style" garden beds in the fall and covered them all winter with the burlap. In the spring the bed was full of worms and dark rich compost. I would not drive 2 hours JUST for it, unless I got a truckload and could use it.

    Regarding "regular" compost tea, it has been used for a long by gardeners. Manure teas are great, I have used them. It is probably done much more often than worm-poo tea.
    We have a local garden center that always has "regular" compost tea brewing and available for free to customers. Just bring a few empty jugs and fill 'em up on the porch. They sell concentrated worm-poo tea with additions such as kelp, fish ect. for $20-30/gallon. Expensive Voo-doo

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago

    barbararose21101 I imagine along the path to the free burlap are other places you need to go to occasionally decreasing the hour each way just for burlap.

  • barbararose21101
    9 years ago

    Burlap as food:
    The bottom is eaten out.

  • barbararose21101
    9 years ago

    embedded hatchlings

  • 11otis
    9 years ago

    Yep, that's how mine look like.

  • barbararose21101
    9 years ago

    When I camped (for 5 years ! ) in my Woods on Vashon, I paid $100 for a roll of burlap to stabilize a cut bank. That property is sandy all the way down. Yesterday I retrieved what is left of that roll. It is much coarser than coffee sacks. There is still most of it left.
    I can't guess how many feet. Suffice it to say I can't lift it.
    Some rodent has nested in it in the (another 5 years) interim.

    Under the rhododendrons it should work like bark, or mulch.
    But maybe I should cut it to match the carpet set up and make layers or pages for worms. . .

    BTW: I don't get any weed control from burlap: all my weeds thrive through it and under it. And it rots fast.

  • hummersteve
    9 years ago

    I found burlap at menards for $.99 each picked up a few last summer but hadnt used any for my worms till recent in place of a lid on my plastic bins. I was wondering how the change would affect them, they seem fine with it.

  • barbararose21101
    9 years ago

    A local Goodwill store had a new, printed, burlap bag for sale for $9.99.

  • 11otis
    9 years ago

    When adding a new burlap bag to the bin, I soaked it in a bucket of rainwater. The first change the water is sort of dark brown, possibly from the coffee residue. So I usually change at least once. Overnight and worms are all over between the folds/layers.

    This post was edited by otis11 on Sat, Oct 11, 14 at 18:45

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    9 years ago

    Soaking the burlap in rainwater is an excellent idea otis11. I think the brown is from the burlap. The rainwater brings the love (OK ie really many types of organisms which the environment of the bin can then choose which ones work best in which sequence.) I am grateful you share your experience with us. Your methods seem to work and be time tested. And the hints and tips are always easy and logical while not $$$, the way worming should be.

    This post was edited by equinoxequinox on Sat, Oct 11, 14 at 20:19

  • Jasdip
    9 years ago

    I just harvested a couple of bins. Since I don't have any burlap on hand I used the netting bag that onions come in. Works great, in that the worms crawl thru the holes into the new bin, leaving the castings on the net.

  • hummersteve
    9 years ago

    Ok I have been using the burlap as a cover of sorts for several months now and Ive tried to keep it moist and have even soaked it in water and havent seen any activity with the burlap and Im sure would help if I could keep it moist. But the last few days when checking the burlap bin I have noticed worms going in and out of it . Appears to be large worms medium worms and maybe even very tiny worms. So in spite of my lack of being able to keep the burlap moist they are using it. Maybe some of the natural moisture of the bin is somehow penetrating the bag.

    Nowadays when I harvest Im not very careful about saving the worm cocoons some slip by into containers. But with the burlap now being used and I just transfer the burlap from bin to bin and always laying on the top bin appears my herd will grow even more now in spite of my efforts.

  • hummersteve
    9 years ago

    Pete

    OK went for broke, following your lead and others since the worms have determined to use the burlap in spite of its dryness and since the only moisture is from the bin itself. Instead of just having the burlap wading up any ole way I cut to fit, then soaked it down with a watering can and for the first time I have liquid drainage. I opened the spigot on my worm factory and let excess run out. Ended up with a full cup of water. Now ,,, as long as my worms dont run for the hills, I mean they are not used to that much wetness. If this was a new bin I would worry but being established guess Im alright. Im thinking this will be much better for my bins now. Thanks again

  • hummersteve
    9 years ago

    I havent had the burlap but a short time but Im enjoying watching the worms interacting with the burlap. They are hanging out with the burlap literally. In one bin many are on top of the burlap perhaps they have just crawled thru the fibers. In the other bin not nearly as much dont see any worms on top of the burlap. Should start seeing an upswing in the herd in the coming weeks and months.

  • hummersteve
    9 years ago

    So is the burlap effect the real deal? View the following and judge for yourself.

    In my factory 360 I have 4 layers of burlap and also a tray on top of this so the worms feel ok being on top as you see here. and in between layers. what you cant see are the tiniest of red worms emerging thru the fibers but plenty of maybe breeder worms hanging out in the burlap.

    {{gwi:2132429}}

    {{gwi:2132430}}

    {{gwi:2132431}}

  • mendopete
    9 years ago

    Burlap is fun to use because it makes the magic happen on top, rather than down below. Worms seem to like to breed there and the cocoons accumulate in the weave. Layered on top, it is easy to observe the wonders of worm reproduction.

    Nice pics Steve. I like the look of the 'pin-cushion'. I call that vermi-art!

    Happy wormin'

    Pete

  • hummersteve
    9 years ago

    Pete--- Thanks for giving or reminding me about using the burlap quite happy I started using it. The burlap in the factory remains moist most of the time , but in the homemade plastic even with a lid on it tends to dry out and I have to re moisten with a spritzer or even a watering can.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    I'm reviving this old topic to say that I have joined the burlap club. I obtained some used coffee sacks, more than I needed for the worm bin, but now that I have them visions of other Projects are dancing in my head.

    I just put several layers of burlap as a cover over the top tray, under the plastic lid, with the idea that I can leave the lid off at times when I need things to dry out some. I've got a little bit of a fruit fly and gnat problem at the moment and I'm hoping the flying beasties will find the burlap layers too puzzling to navigate.

  • 11otis
    7 years ago

    Before I put a burlap sack in the bin, I soak it in a bucket with rain water and once it has soaked well, let the excess water drip out some unless the bin needed sprinkling.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    OK, so far I've just been placing a big piece of burlap (this coffee sack burlap is very big and rough) folded into a 'pad' of several thicknesses on the top of the top WF tray. I did not soak it first. Observations:

    Even with so much dry burlap on top of the tray and fairly dry bedding underneath, placing the plastic lid on top still leads to condensation on the underside of it - and a few intrepid worms still climbing up there to loll around in the condensation! So I started leaving the lid off entirely.

    But the worms don't wiggle around in or on the burlap itself when it's dry, as you'd expect.

    The dry burlap doesn't do anything to stop flies - fruit flies in particular seem to crawl right through the openings as well as sneaking around the edges.

    The bedding on top stays mostly pretty dry (I don't soak my bedding either) so there are few worms right underneath the burlap when I lift it up.

    So this would be an OK approach to a bin that's too wet, but doesn't help any with flies, and now I think I'm erring a bit on the "too dry" side in this top tray. There are still worms a little ways down, and plenty of moisture in the lower trays if they need to get to it, but I think I'll try soaking the burlap next and see how that does. Prepare for a splashy mess in the basement.

    I think there will still be no real barrier against flies, though, because there will always be a little gap around the edges of each tray and the top tray where they can easily get in and out. And I want that gap to be there, as I've been trying to increase air circulation throughout the bin. Other measures against the flies will still proceed.

  • bltlover
    7 years ago

    I seem to remember reading about burlap a few years back, but I forgot about trying it. It does sound like a good way to harvest, or keep them high in the bin.

    One thing I noticed this spring was the worms affinity for tight structure - in that case, tree roots. I had considered transplanting a buried arbor vitae limb that rooted itself, so stuck I it in a pile to keep it moist. The pile was a hot compost pile of horse manure, shredded leaves, shredded branches, and the worms I had inoculated it with. Weeks later when I decided to throw the limb away, I had to spend quite a few minutes picking worms out of the root system- they absolutely loved the hairy, close structure.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    The burlap on top of my bin has become an all-ages worm party. There are worms of all sizes in the layers, including many, many tiny baby worms. When the light hits them, all the worms make a run for it, but the tinies dive straight down into the weave of the burlap. Best of all is when they dive down and the ends of their tails stand straight up for a moment before they disappear.

    I'll try to get some pics with my good camera. Unfortunately, pics will also reveal the mite party taking place in the burlap simultaneously. I have a lot of mites in my bin, on all surfaces, not just the burlap, but I wish they weren't bespeckling the burlap quite so much.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Turns out it's hard to get a good photo of the burlap effect. I guess it's dark in my basement or something. Anyway, this is proof that the vurms really, really like burlap for its own sake, because this is burlap (already in the bin for several weeks, on top of the previous tray) placed over a freshly started Worm Factory tray with nothing in it but dampened coir. (I decided to try out the coir that came with the WF.) There are also a lot of mites and the ever-present yellow splash of slime mold and probably a lot of invisible microbiota on the burlap, but all these worms came up to this tray before any food has been added.

    Worms in the coir, just under the burlap layers.


    A few babies and a cocoon visible here, if you squint

  • baldeagleomelette
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Special thanks to you, Jim, for cottoning me on to this idea.

    bought two burlap bags at the flea for $4

    couldn't stomach cutting up perfectly good bags, so I laid one over my biggest bin's top bedding.

    At first it looked like disaster. Cull worms under the burlap swelled in all the wrong places.

    so I soaked the burlap, drained, soaked, drained, soaked for a day, then drained, then added once again.

    now, that bin is thriving like I have never seen. I go to dip under the bedding and stop because I can feel the heat of all the happy worms.

    The top of the burlap is rubbed raw, so I imagine they are having orgies of some kind when I'm not watching.

    Praise be to burlap. But take my advice, and soak it multiple times before adding.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    I wonder what your burlap had on it. Mine is old coffee bags, and I didn't have any issues though I really only dunked it in water once.

  • baldeagleomelette
    7 years ago

    Parsley,

    There's really no telling. I didn't mention this but for the first time worms were even trying to crawl up the side of the bin, something I had only read about here. It did have a strong chemical scent of some kind. After all the soaking and draining, the bottom of the bucket had a good amount of sand for whatever it's worth.

    Soaking a new piece of burlap is probably just good policy; no telling where it has been.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    Indeed. Or just run it through the washing machine, no soap, perhaps a little vinegar or something.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I put a new square of burlap on the top of the old layers.


    The three or four layers below that have been getting darker and lacier all this time, until you get to the very bottom layer, which comes apart when you touch it.


    I figure I can just add a new top layer from time to time as the ones underneath are gradually nibbled away by the worms and their cohorts. The whole thing gets lifted off when I swap out trays, then added to the top of the new tray. The worms always come up and get into it, even on top of lots of new dry bedding.

  • tipytoes11
    6 years ago

    mendopete Hello. i know it is an old post but would you consider selling me a couple of burlap bags as i have no where around her that dose such a thing. I live in Spain Malaga and i and in a village and dont drive . so getting to a big city is a no no.

  • 11otis
    6 years ago

    tipytoes11: Do they roast coffee in Spain or just get them all in neat packages? I understand that you live in a village but just to give you an idea. I got my burlap from a coffee place where their company roast their own. I asked the barista about the bags and with their next delivery, they sent along few bags. Failing that, you can use old t-shirts or anything old clothing, albeit not the same thing as burlap, but it still retain moisture and worms will get between the layers. I usually soak it for a couple of days in rain water.

  • tipytoes11
    6 years ago

    Thank you for getting back to me. i thought the burlap's open weave was what made it a good thing. so as long as the worms can get inbetween the layers any damp fabric will do!. well thats good to now. as for roasting coffee. not in my village. and i dont drive to go to the place where they might roast. only having 1 bus in the morning 7am and 1 bus back which would get me home at 9-15pm a long day for a bit of burlap lol lol ok im off to sort out my cupboards for old t-shirts lol.

  • 11otis
    6 years ago

    Yeah, it is the coarse weave so they can get through there to get the cocoons off. But....can't use what one doesn't have . So I looked at other options when I didn't have access to burlap.

  • harry757
    6 years ago

    Speaking of cocoons, why is it I've never seen a worm in the process of shedding a cocoon. Seen them "knotted" together during mating loads of times but never leaving a cocoon behind. Thought maybe it's because they do that deeper in the bin but one often sees cocoons on the surface of the castings. Maybe the mother (or father in this case) pushes them up to the surface for there first breath of air lol. ; )

    Harry

  • harry757
    6 years ago

    Speaking of cocoons, why is it I've never seen a worm in the process of shedding a cocoon. Seen them "knotted" together during mating loads of times but never leaving a cocoon behind. Thought maybe it's because they do that deeper in the bin but one often sees cocoons on the surface of the castings. Maybe the mother (or father in this case) pushes them up to the surface for there first breath of air lol. ; )

    Harry

  • harry757
    6 years ago

    oops!

  • Emily Leuba
    6 years ago

    Bringing this back to life after a fellow member sent me to this thread! Great information. 2 months in with my Worm Factory and moisture issues continue to be a problem for me. One extreme or another.


    I have some burlap I bought for my garden last year and I have it soaking now to see how they like it and if it helps with my moisture control!

Sponsored
HEMAX Construction Services & Landscaping, LLC
Average rating: 4.9 out of 5 stars34 Reviews
Innovative & Creative Landscape Contractors Servicing VA