Pick up a few, sometimes they will wiggle like crazy as a result of you touching them. On the other hand, I don't think this is specific to any species. I've had dew worms do that too when picking one up to bait a hook with.

You cannot tell whether you have EFs by how much they wiggle.

Worms in a new bin will not eat as much as they will later. It takes time to get a good microbial herd growing. The worms eat the microbes, not the "food."

I would suggest that you leave them be, to settle in - too much handling and attention will delay the "maturing of" your bin.

Here is a link that might be useful: Working Worms

They've been in the bin since June, now. I have a worm factory bin system and am only on the second bin after they went through the first bin pretty quickly. Though, it was mostly their bedding. I'm adding picture because I think I may be feeding them too much.

Here is a link that might be useful:

They've been in the bin since June, now. I have a worm factory bin system and am only on the second bin after they went through the first bin pretty quickly. Though, it was mostly their bedding. I'm adding picture because I think I may be feeding them too much.

Here is a link that might be useful:

3 months is long enough to get a pretty good micro herd going.

I can't tell from the picture whether you are overfeeding.

Wigglers do tend to wiggle more when they have a lot of air moving through their bedding. In most tote type bins it is hard to get enough air movement to achieve this. Worms do tend to wiggle more in flow through bins.

In order to tell if you are feeding too much we would need to know how many pounds of worms you have and how many pounds of feed you are giving them each week. Or how long it has been sense you added the food to your bin.

When feeding totes. Most worm herders feed once a week. Feeding a weeks worth of food at a time. If it is taking them longer to eat the weeks feeding wait until it is gone before adding the next feeding. And readjust the size of the feeding if needed.

One thing does stand out in your photo. It looks like you are not covering the food with bedding. ...Unless you were VERY good at removing the bedding for the photo.

The worms need new additions of bedding as you add food. To keep up the proper C:N ratio. The bedding covering the food also gives cover to the worms. Allowing them to eat the food from all sides. Not just from the bottom.

Here is a link that might be useful: C:N ratio calculator

Ah, that makes sense. I'm using wet newspapers for bedding, but not shredding them. Should I be?

Shredding the newspaper is not necessary, but it will help.

I don't like newspaper for bedding. It is messy (not that the worms care about that) and it tends to mat. I prefer shredded cardboard. I produce a lot of office paper. I shred it and mix it 50%/50% with shredded cardboard.

I have a lot of paper, too. It's a good way to get rid of old papers and checks!

Now that fall is here I thought I'd add how much I like using leaves in the worm bin. Before I got into composting I would rake up 5 or 6 bags of leaves every year and send them with the trash. This year, I already have 5 garbage bags of leaves in the garage and am going to grab the leaves at Mom's place. Next I'll be taking the yard vac into the nearby parks to grab those leaves.

We don't have many leaves, yet. I found a couple of small ones that had turned brown and threw those in. The worms loved those leaves!

By the looks of the picture, the food is going in there "fresh".
It takes longer for the food to soften and break down....essentially rot, so they can eat it.

Covering and being patient is key if you put the food in fresh.

I always chop and freeze my food. This breaks down the cells when it's thawed, and is easily palatable to the worms. They eat the food quicker as it's already in a softened state for them. I cover with shredded paper each time. Keeps the fruit flies at bay, as well.

Is sbryce correct? Nobody seems to have challenged his statement that the worms only eat the microbes, not the "food" - that seems strange, as something is definitely eating the food - if the microbes are doing that - then why do we need worms? And, if so, surely the worms would be a negative factor as they would be slowing the process by reducing the stock of microbes. Something doesn't add up to me! I would have thought that if anything, the microbes were just an aid or facilitator to the worms digestion and not the principal food of the worms? Can anyone explain?

He's correct, those micro-organisms are what they are eating. Compost worms have a very rudimentary digestive system that is not capable of eating the food items we put in there. They have no teeth for chewing and no stomach to break down the chewed up bits, only a digestive tract where they ingest bits of organic material that has been worked on by micro-organisms that cause the decomposition of organic matter and digest those buggers. The other OM they poop out is the organic matter less some of the micro-organisms that they digested plus some of the micro-organisms that they did not digest.

Why do we need the worms? If you just left a well ventilated bin full of decomposing organic material and gave it enough time it would decompose by the other micro-organisms alone. One, it will take somewhat longer. Two, it will likely stick up a storm while it's happening.

The worms, while getting their fill of micro-organisms, break up the food and distribute micro-organisms and other organic material through the bin. This serves to speed up the decomposition of the other organic material. They also serve to help aerate the compost somewhat by burrowing through it. Aerobic bacteria (the kind that thrive in oxygen rich environments) eat organic material and produce as a byproduct nitrogen and carbon compounds. Anaerobic bacteria (the kind that thrive in environments low in or devoid of oxygen) will produce the alcohols, sulphur compounds and methane that cause the undesirable odors in a worm bin. Anaerobes also decompose organic matter at a slower pace than aerobic bacteria.

Aside from this, the worms should not ever slow the stock of the microbes. A well maintained system should be able to allow them (the microbes) to thrive beyond the worm's ability to eat them all. Bacteria are everywhere. They only need dampness, warmth, oxygen and a food source to multiply by the bazillions. Are you familiar with hot composting? The heat is caused by aerobic bacteria multiplying and consuming organic matter at a rate so high that the compost temperature can reach in the 150F range. Nature is pretty cool.

I am pre-composting way too much wet greens. I do this poorly and it turns anaerobic. I take these nasty goo balls and put them in for the worms. Within 24 hours the worms/sow bugs/aerobic microbes have turned a nasty situation to the positive. Within a week multiple softball size, smelly messes are flattened worm food. Within 2 weeks they are unrecognizable. I agree with rom.calgary.ab "Nature is pretty cool."

Indeed! nature is quite cool.

Just to clarify, even though rom.calgary.ab already did a great job, the worms ingest the food, but they derive their nutrition from the microbes that decompose the food. And somehow, while this is happening, there will be more microbes with the worms than there would be without. A worm's gullet will grind up whatever is ingested. In that way the worms do help break down the organic matter in the bin.

Hi All; It is true that worms get some of their required neutrition from microbes. That said microbes do not have the neutrional building blocks in chemical and element form and that is what the food for the worms provide the microbes in the worms gut along with a calciforus fluid breaks the "food down to the molecular chemical and element form so the worms body can use it. A worms body will have more microbes inside than they ingest. The castings will have more microbes than they ingest also. The multiplacation takes place with in the worms body as part of the process of supplying the elemental and molecular chemical neutrition they both require to sustain their lives.

So, as I understand what the experts have said - in layman's terms, the worms ingest (eat) both microbes and also the decomposing food - certainly not only the microbes as sbryce maintains. Essentially the microbes themselves are certainly ingested, but in the process, they break-down the "food" we have supplied the worms into its basic chemicals structure (elements and molecules) (which come directly from the "food") and so the the broken down food residue eventually becomes the building blocks of the worms physiology - ie the WORMS EAT THE FOOD and not just the microbes. Am I wrong?

or you can also say: the worms eat the microbes and not just the food.
I have read in one of the forums (could it be here?) that the worms "slurp" the food. In my simple understanding, for the food to be able to be slurped, it needs microbes to break it down and they stay with the food and together with the food got slurped into the worms, and out of the worms, onto other food and so on and so forth.

I guess it all depends on what you would characterize EAT the FOOD.
Maggots (especially visible on BSFL videos) EAT the food because they munch directly on the leaves etc. that goes into their digestive system. As do rabbits and other animals with TEETH or BILLS.

By now you must have realized that worms don't MUNCH, GNAWED or PECKED the food directly. So, is the stuff that the microbes process and slurped or "eaten" by the worms still food? Sure, IMHO, any material that will keep something alive is food. Well, there's some food for your thought.

OOooooppps! I did not mean to give the impression that worms don't ingest the food in the bin. What I meant to communicate is that the "food" in the bin is not the worm's "food." The worms depend on microbes for their nutrition. In order to get those microbes into their gullets, they ingest anything in the bin that has been sufficiently softened by those microbes.

My point was that just putting food in the bin will not give the worms something to eat. There needs to be a healthy mirco-herd in the bin as well.

Hi All; Worms slurp ingest small particals of solid food materials and if not small enough grind it up further in the gizzard (takes place of teeth). The food then goes into the stomach where it is combined with calciforus fluid and microbes that lived through the gizzard for reduction to elemental molecular use by both worms and bacteria for energy to build repair body and cell structures and give energy for living responces. That is how contaminants are absorbed by worms and the heavy metals also. It is also the reason that worms expel in the cast more microbs by weight than they ingest. Microbial life within the worm same as an infection in the human body. Worms are not infected for the most part by microbial life forms they are natures cleaner of contaminants for the most part. They clean up some things that are toxic to most animal life forms. They also clean up plant toxins by microbial activity within their body. the digestive fluids of worms and microbial activity chemically alter the toxins into base molecular structures. They are primary composters and secondary consumers of BIO degradeable materials.

Thanks to all for sharing a wealth of knowledge. This has been one of the most informative and interesting threads that I have followed.

I agree! I had no idea how this whole thing worked.

I'm wondering if the best way to "kick start" or "mature" a new bin, wouldn't simply be to dump in a whole lot of fresh vermicompost (worm castings, from another bin (from a friend or supplier). The vermicompost would already be chock full of microbes and the "food" would then be attacked immediatelly.

If you want to kick start a new bin, add SOMETHING that is full of microbes. I used partially composted thermophilic compost (actually, just the decomposing stuff near the middle of a pile of dumped yard waste). Horse manure would also work, and probably rabbit.

It doesn't mean that the microbes will attack the food immediately. It means the worms would have something to attack immediately. The microbes would still need to spread out through the bin.

I received some Lumbricus rubellus this past weekend, and discovered I may be able to purchase more at the local Petsmart. The sales lady mentioned two kinds, one was obviously the larger E. foetida, or red nightcrawler, and the other sounds like the ones I have. These would actually both be easy to raise for animal feeding as they are compost worms, so I imagine that's what they are. I will take a good look at mine before adding any more to this mix, however! But, while I was searching for the care and feeding of my new livestock, I discovered very little on what to expect in terms of life cycle. How long do these live? how often do they reproduce? Do they ENJOY banana peels mostly? (I have some eggshells in there too.) I am not overfeeding my initial forty to fifty worms, there is nothing in there besides red oak leaf litter, some soil and sand, some grass clippings, a bit of old worm castings, and shredded newspaper, properly moistened, along with some of the old banana peel which came with the worms. I can add a few minor pieces of apple and perhaps part of a new banana peel, perhaps a tbsp or so, but hestitate to add more than that until I know more. I do not want to overfeed, nor do I wish to attract pests. The rest of my organic apple peel will go into the freezer, as mentioned before.

Does anyone have any information on these? It turns out this species is actually going to work out well for me, I am here in central Texas, and a little chill resistance is going to be a good thing. Although if it freezes they will go into the garage! and not the back porch...

Thanks in advance.
Gina

Hey gina!...Glad you made it in here. Actually the ones I gave to you at the swap are in fact the smaller eisenia foetida aka red wigglers. I got them from here 3 years ago

http://www.hallswormery.com/
The larger ones the lady was thinking about were canadian nightcrawlers and dont work in bin culture. The red wigglers you have will work in a 10 gal sterilite bin. On the bottom you should put some finished compost so the worms have a place to dig into and rest. A 2-3 inch layer will work. The compost should be moist but not sopping wet. Now you can put the worms and everything I gave you on top of the bedding. On top of that you want to put about a 3 inch layer of leaves, shredded paper, cardboard or various other paper products. No slick shiny advertisement papers. Its poisonous. As for what they are going to eat, the sky's the limit. They love banana peels, celery, apple peels, avocado peels, melon rinds, spent floral arangements, pumpkin, you name it. Just put it in between that bottom bedding layer and the top leaves/paper layer. If you put the food close to where you put the worms at the beginning, theyll find it faster. However withhold on feeding the worms massive amounts of the food starting off.
The amount of worms i gave you will probably be able to take down a whole banana peel or a few apple peelings per week. The worms have to reproduce themselves in sufficient numbers to keep up with your vegetable scraps. They do this by reproducing with each other. The mature worms have a swollen band around them called a clitellum and when they get two worms get together they press these together. Both worms will produce an egg case that look like little yellow lemons. Theyre tiny. 1-3 little worms will hatch out. If you see that the food is getting eaten faster and faster, then you can introduce more food into the bin. As to how long they live. Well I'm not quite sure but eventually youll have a successful bin that you wont be able to tell how many are actually in your bin.

If I have left anything out then I am sure someone will chime in and either point it out or fill in. There are many sources of worms in texas and its not too expensive considering the amount you'd have to pay for a pound of worm casting or for that matter worm tea. Good Luck!

Joey

Hi, Joey! I want to say thanks again for the livestock!! I have set up my bin the way you suggest, although it's going to be a few weeks to gather up enough newspaper to shred to get those four to five inches. I have about one and a half, right now, but with the forty to fifty worms, I just tipped the bin a bit. I had already mixed up the compost and shredded paper, along with a wad of grass clippings and redoak leaves, but went ahead and put in a half teaspoon of butternut squash and two to three apple peels, to give them a choice to chow down.

From looking at the pictures online, here
http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/.../earthworms.htm
I can see you are quite correct. I hadn't found the proper pictures to identify them as yet. This is really good to know, as I do wish to keep them happy, and one can't do that without knowing enough about them.

I will pay attention to your notes given, though, and will begin to rebuild the bin properly to get the best results. Right now they are all in the middle with the heaviest clump of compost and topsoil to keep warm. It has been cold enough these past few days to prevent them from working much of anything!
I will ask if you think it will help to build them up with new worms if I buy another small amount from Petsmart (assuming they are the correct worms.) I'm thinking along genetic diversity lines, here. The Petsmart package is another 40-50 worms. This would double what I have, (it's five dollars! but the closest shop in town for this.)
This would allow me to use up more kitchen waste in the bin, as well.
Thanks for the help!
Gina

You dont have to use just newspaper for the top layer. Leaves work just fine and most likely will have plenty falling from the trees. I think the ones from petsmart that you want will be comparable to the size ones I gave you. The huge canadian nightcrawlers are the other ones. Just remember when adding scraps that if it starts to develop funky smells it means the bin is overloaded and you can mix some dry bedding to balance it out...

Do bins need a mix of worms?

Mine have been fine (2 years +) but the local worm pro, commercial worm pro, has advised that older bins need a mix of red wrigglers (or redworm, Eisenia fetida).

In Hawaii, red wrigglers are rare and the majority of us have the India Blues (The composting worm found in Hawaii is Perionyx excavatus, also called Indian blue, Malaysian blue, or blueworm. Although not native to Hawaii, they have been established here for a very long time and are commonly found wherever manure and water meet on pig farms, chicken farms and horse stables.)

Is the redworm the dominant worm? This is an excerpt from the commercial worm supplier site: Over time you may notice the redworms becoming the predominant worm in your bin, as they seem better suited to mature bin conditions. Both species of worms are excellent eaters and will reproduce readily with sufficient food and space, capable of doubling their numbers every 60 days in good conditions.

So I don't want to bust what isn't broken! I thought of getting a few reds but I don't want them to take over - and how IS that done? Do they MURDER the blues?

Thanks!

Hi All; Worms do not murder or kill anything ever. It is true that one species may become dominant in numbers over anouther but it is only due to its ability to consume the food presented better. Multiple species can and will live togather especially if they have a variety of food supplies and multiple micro herds to slurp from including yeasts and molds. With temps favorable and plenty of deversified foods and aireated water( damp bedding )they will live happily togather. Thats the nature of things. They will not hybridize either so no cross breeding will take place.

Thanks lkittle! I was thinking of getting a few (2 for $1.00) but it seems a bit pricey and the warning about them taking over the bin scared me and my Blues are OK. . .

Right now I am feeding my worm 'herd' the equivalent of a banana peel a week. The apple peelings and squash bits I threw in last week were all gone, so far as I could see, when I gave them the banana peeling for this week. I did see some white fluffy mold, but so far I have not seen any effects of that on the worms.

Since my herd is about forty to fifty worms right now, how often will it double, do you think? I have read about every six to eight weeks, but does that slow down during the winter months? Perhaps I should go ahead and get the extra worms right now, in order to keep up the reproductive rates?
Somewhat at a loss, as what I am hoping to do is get a herd large enough to take care of about 2 lbs of kitchen waste a week, eventually, but I don't want to screw anything up, as then I would have to start over, or slow up the process of feeding, whatever it takes to get back on track.

Are worms prone to viruses? could additional worms from another herd possibly make mine ill? I never read anything about illness, just pests, and I certainly don't wish to contaminate my worms!

thanks,
Gina