Have any of you given your worm herd bokashi? Please share your experiences with me and others here.

The flower...I grow morning glories in containers, and amend the container growing medium with vermicompost. The flowers respond so nicely, it's incredible. It makes making the VC worthwhile.

All the best,

Joseph

How long do you compost your finished Bokashi, before feeding it to the worms?
I would suggest an experiment. Take a small container, add some bedding, a dozen or more worms, and a small amount of fresh (non-composted) Bokashi and see what happens. If you get the same results as from Composted Bokashi (in that the worms swarm it immediately and with no ill effects), then you can discard the composting process and you're good to go; but if the worms stay away from it for any length of time or if you see other reactions like 'String-of-Pearls' or dead and dying worms, then you'll know that you must compost first. Unfortunately, I have no first-hand knowledge with it, my only experience being a lecture I once attended on the subject. The presenters were using the lecture as a promo to try and sell their Bokashi-making products. They were pushing it as a quick alternative to composting with the ability to add the fresh results directly to your garden, while I on the other hand, only wanted to know about using it in my worm bin. The fact that the presenters had no experience in the interactions between fresh Bokashi and Compost Worms, coupled with the rather pricey cost of the product (and especially where I did not know if it would work), essentially turned me off to the whole idea. I do remember asking for a small sample to try out, but they refused, insisting I buy the whole bottle.
We here are a homogenous group with a wide range of experiences in raising Compost Worms and while we are constantly answering questions from Newbies to the hobby, we are also asking questions of each other, for there is always something new to learn. If you do not receive a positive response to your question, then I would highly suggest conducting an experiment like I described and posting your results to the forum.
If I knew that fresh Bokashi could be added to a worm bin (I, having a large porch/patio area, but with no actual ground and therefore no place to set up a compost bin), then I would definitely be interested.
Looking forward to your input.

Shaul

Shaul

Regarding how long I leave the bokashi in the outdoors compost bin, I do not have data; however, I leave it out there long enough for the color and fluid qualities of the finished bokashi to change over to dark colors and more firm consistency.

My worm bin is indoors, and I have been successful in vanquishing the fungus gnats using applications of nematodes that feed on the fly larvae. I would like to keep things around the bin fly-free so it would be desirable to bypass the outdoors-compost bin step to keep the fungus gnats outside.

Pete, I would love to see the video(s) too.

Happy new year to you all.

Fortunately, no vermin in my house. :) I give the meat & dairy to the worms.(Just a little at a time) Come to think of it, I hardly ever have meat scraps. Although I have thrown some old moldy hamburger helper in the bin a few times.
Never had any problems with odors. Did I mention I only use a *little* at a time? ;)

I guess for some people with lots of meat and dairy the bokashi would make sense. Dunno.

Since your first post on Bokashi I have become re-interested in the subject. I have been doing a lot of reading and research, (both on EM websites as well as Vermicomposting Forums) to try and learn how worms deal with Bokashi. From all I've read and seen on YouTube, there doesn't seem to be any problem in feeding fresh Bokashi to Worms. Different opinions claim that once the pail is full and sealed up, that it needs to ferment for 2 - 4 weeks and then the worms are (supposedly) all over it within 7 - 12 hrs., but if you're feeding them dried Bokashi, that it may take a week or more before they start working on it. I finally decided to try it and so I ordered and just received: 2 kgs of ready-to-use Bokashi Bran, as well as the other ingredients for preparing my own Bran for future use. Just the idea that I will (theoretically) be able to feed Garlic, Onions, Pineapple and Citrus (in quantity), besides Meat and Dairy is pretty mind-blowing. I'll be looking forward to running my own experiments as well.

Shaul

Shaul

I think the dried bokashi they fed to the worms was the actual end product, finished bokashi, which was then dried out. I don't think they were using the starter flakes impregnated with Lactobacillus used to make the bokashi. I could be wrong however, having not seen what you're reading.

You can use the bokashi directly in the garden and bypass the red worm bin step. I have done this in my regular garden and covered up the slop with a 3 inch layer of bagged compost. The plants responded very well to these "Oasis of Nutrients" zones, and presumably the native worms in the garden are feasting on the subterranean bokashi. Finished bokashi I suppose could be used in the containers, but it is an amendment I prefer not to use in mine, mainly because it does not look like soil. Bokashi is fermented or pickled food, and it looks like the food you originally put in the bucket and it isn't too aesthetically pleasing to see. That is why I want to transform it using worms.

The words Equinox is quoting are mine. At this point it would be too much trouble to go back and find all the sources and opinions of the processing times for Bokashi. Here's how I understand it: You layer food waste in your bucket 2"-3" thick with a sprinkling of Bokashi Bran between layers, pressing down the layers to exclude as much air as possible, as well as emptying liquid every couple days. During this initial period the microbes in the activated bran are already starting to break down the food waste (thus resulting in liquid coming out at the bottom). You continue this way until the bucket is full. At that point you seal up the bucket and let it ferment (in an anaerobic environment) for two weeks.
Now according to the traditional method, you then bury the fermented food waste (Bokashi) (and mixed-up with soil) in your garden for an additional 2 - 4 weeks to allow the worms and other soil critters to do their thing. After this secondary period you can either plant right on top of it or dig it up and use it as fertilizer on your plants. According to what I've read and seen, the food waste (at this point) no longer looks like what it was originally, but rather like soil.
Now fast forward to us here. According to my (limited ) understanding, some say that (after you seal the bucket) the initial 2 weeks are sufficient and then you can add the food waste to the worm bin, while others say you should extend the initial fermentation time another 2 weeks. You don't need to bury it first because you're adding to your bin which already has the worms and soil critters (there's no waiting time).
Now I could understand if the reason for burying, was to allow the fermentation process to dissipate (after all, you don't want to pickle the worms), but if it's only to allow time for the worms etc to arrive, then I see no reason to wait.

Shaul

Shaul

"I think the dried bokashi they fed to the worms was the actual end product, finished bokashi, which was then dried out." In my readings I have not come across anybody dehydrating the end product bokashi. It might be a great idea to do so. Bokashi by definition is a finished, stable, storable, product. No dehydration needed. It would be like dehydrating a pickle. It might be a great idea to do so. I have not come across anybody doing it.

What is dried is the bokashi mother or seed, or starter. This is a relative expensive product which has uses more valuable than to feed worms with.

"I'd be interested in reading the actual postings or articles from the folks you reference, equinoxequinox.
I think the dried bokashi they fed to the worms was the actual end product, finished bokashi, which was then dried out. I don't think they were using the starter flakes impregnated with Lactobacillus used to make the bokashi. I could be wrong however, having not seen what you're reading." Did you preface a request for links prior to a reference which you have no links for? If I did not include any links, usually I do not have any. I pretty much made it up out of thin air, wishful thinking and more than a dash of massive exaggeration. My posts are more of a conglomeration of many various readings over time to get a general feel for a topic than a specific factual recipe with links.

On the other hand I really liked your posts.

Perhaps a vermicomposters receipt for bokashi would be kitchen scraps of onions and garlic, avocado skins and pits and a side of corn cobs, along with the rind of juiced lemons, limes and grapefruits, topped off with pineapple core. On the bottom of the bucket I would put a dry disk infused with no oxygen bacteria sprinkled with 1/4 inch of crushed egg shells. I would have a drain but use it to let me know if I need to add a second or third dry disk among the layers. Chicken bones after the long stewing stock pot and mice on the wrong side of the trap would be included.

The heat producing in the worst of winter BSFL would be licking their chops and organizing a take over of the bokashi bin. That is the ticket. To determine the best use for each waste stream.

http://www.bokashicompostinghq.com/using-bokashi-compost-in-a-worm-bin /

Shaul

Happy weekend you you!

Joseph

Where is the best place to buy the bokashi starter/innoculent?

aerobic with oxygen / air
anaerobic with out oxygen / air

Both methods have their uses.

Any bokashi that is easy and inexpensive in your area is what to get. Supposedly this can be made into more material if you have something to inoculate. Even then you might every couple of years to start with new starter. You might find additional uses for it or split a fresh container now and then with a neighbor. Hopefully bokashi starter will be popular and thus go way down in price.

There must be a way to make your own bokashi starter granules. I found some verbs on making your own bokashi bran using Mr. Google's help, see the link below. You still have to buy the EM-1 solution, but it costs less than buying already prepared starter Bokashi bran. I have not tried doing this but reading the description makes me think it would be easy to do this and save some shekels.

He has a treatise entitled "Fermentation with Syntropic Antioxidative Microbes: An Advanced Guide to Brewing EM Fermented Secondary Products".
The treatise is in pdf format. Unfortunately, Gardenweb won't let it be posted in that format.
The book claims right from the start that the processes described are for those with advanced brewing skills. For some, this might mean a background in Fermentation Science, while for others it might be a still in the backwoods of Kentucky. Regardless, like 'Peter Piper', unless you have prior experience in 'Pepper Pickling' you may find yourself in one heck of a pickle. All in all, it's an interesting read.

Shaul

It occurs to me that maybe they could use some tea bags to brew up that stuff.

This stuff sounds a lot like the SCOBY of kombucha I have 3 mason jars of brewing on my kitchen counter.

But what do I know. I'm just an alien space craft repair man with Lots of teeth who eats spam for breakfast.

It also sounds a bit like Preparation 500 which is cow dung fermented in cow horns buried under ground. Which is all funny and stuff until the next guy over has way bigger tomatoes than you do. Then you start shopping for cow horns on e-bay because you are pretty sure if cow dung is good than vermicompost would be way better and want to experiment.

Shaul

So now it's been 6 weeks since I closed up my first 5-Gal pail. I opened it up about a week ago and put about a handful into each of my 2 bins (on top of the bedding). No reaction. Several days passed, still no reaction. After a week they are eating it, though I can't say they are all Over it. What I Can say is that they are all Under it. Wherever I pick up what was Corn cobs, Celery stalks, Onion peels etc, (all easily recognizable) there are masses of worms hard at work. I have never seen this kind of response on this kind of material in such a short period of time, before. So Bokashi is definitely a Winner and I will be processing all my fruit and vegetable waste in this manner (no meat or dairy for the time being).

Shaul

The worms are under the material because no doubt that is where all of the microbial action is taking place.

Could you please post a larger picture of what you're using for a Bokashi bucket. Aside from the standard, commercially available ones, I'm interested to see what other people do, as far as an internal screen (to strain out the liquid) and a spigot to empty the juice. Also, although I didn't experience that white fuzziness on the top of the finished Bokashi, I've read that as long as it's white (and not green or black) it's a good sign.
Another question, when you've filled the bucket to the top and are ready to seal it, do you first add some sort of weight (to keep pressing out the air while it's processing) or do you just seal it up as is?

Shaul

I have 3 of the 5 gallon buckets with air tight lids that are marketed by Teraganix. There is no internal screen or spigot attached at the base. I tend to put materials which do not generate much liquid.

Good to hear that news, robertz6.

Shaul

I put shredded paper at the bottom of the bucket. Every couple of days I pour out the excess leachate, since there is no drain spout to simplify matters. To seal the top and keep air out, I use two heavy plastic pieces (like a cut open chip bag such as Kettles), than a large black plastic bag, with a 10 pound flat weight on top to help add pressure. A large rubber band seals the plastic bag to the outside of the container to further reduce air movement.

Could not find any mention of vermi and bokashi together in "Worms Eat My Garbage", so the the OK mention of it must have been elsewhere.

I had a similar experience with epoxy and caulk. I was trying to recreate a $50- Bokashi bucket (wherein all the liquid drains out and none is left at the bottom). After 3 days the epoxy (specifically for gluing plastics) and the silicon caulk (which was rated as waterproof and resistant to most chemicals) became useless. I guess they tested it on everything else except Bokashi juice.
The picture I posted is the inside of a Bokashi bucket which can be purchased online (usually around $30 to $50). The strainer (at the left) sits on that lip around the inside. At one end is a small square indentation where the liquid flows out. The round, white, piece is obviously the plastic nut which secures the spigot in place. The small square space under it seems to be; that just in case you would need to change the spigot, there would be enough room to turn the nut and remove it (and then replace it again). In the end, the only liquid remaining in the bucket, at any one time, seems to be about: 1/4"-1/2" (D) X 1"-1.5" (square). That's not very much liquid at all.
Now, I have no problem installing a spigot at the very bottom of the 5 Gal buckets I use. The problem is that there needs to be room for the rubber washers and the nut to hold the spigot in place. In general, the bottom of the tube (where the liquid flows out through the spigot) is at least 1/2" off the floor. This means that the whole bottom of the bucket up to at least 1/2" is covered with liquid and then anything above that level is what flows out. This is far more than what there should be. One solution I've thought of (though I haven't yet been able to accomplish it) is to somehow raise the level of the floor to the level of the outlet tube. If anyone has any thoughts on this idea or any others, I'd appreciate it.

Shaul

Colleen Vanderlinden
at About.com
Organic Gardening

Answered this question about putting bokashi in worm bin with a 'YES'. Think her main qualification was a little at a time.

Here's a morning glory I've been growing indoors over the winter, which has benefited from worm poop tea on occasion.