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sheppy2

What worm feeding behavior is normal?

Sheppy2
13 years ago

I setup a Worm Factory 360 last week and things seem to be going well. We seeded the bin with 1000 worms and when I dig around, I do find worms. But given the starting number of worms, I would expect to see them in greater densities. In the spots where I added food scraps, I find a couple of worms but I would have thought I'd see 10s or 100s. There is no evidence they have tried to escape.

I have two questions:

1. Is it normal for worms to distribute throughout the bin or should they congregate and concentrate in and around the food?

2. The Worm Factory instructions state to add more food once worms are involved in the latest food addition. Does "involved" mean a few worms or many?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Comments (15)

  • 11otis
    13 years ago

    How long before you added the worms did you set up your WF? Did you add some food scraps at that time?
    You may have ordered 1000 worms (are they EFs?) but did you receive 1000? That should be about 1 lb. worms, not worms with bedding and VC, just the worms. You might be interested to watch this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ4uYXHydoo&feature=related
    (in case the link doesn't work, it's YouTube, Red Worms by the Gob by TheCompostGuy.

    How soon after you added the worms to the bin did you start feeding them?
    Is there a smell in the bin? Dead worms smell really nasty.
    How damp is the bin? How much & what kind of bedding you use? Are we talking about just 1 tray at this point? Because 1000 worms in a WF tray shouldn't be a problem to find.
    Were the worms alive and healthy when they arrived?

  • joe.jr317
    13 years ago

    It's normal for worms to spread out if the bedding is moist enough. They are quite the wanderers. It's also normal for several to congregate in a spot of more food after that food has started rotting really well. Prior to that they tend to stay away from it if the heat gets too high (unlikely considering the amount of food it requires to maintain high heat) or if the pH hasn't stabilized. If you measure the pH of runoff from fresh food or thawing scraps that you froze for later, you will find the pH is often quite low (acidic). Of course, it depends on the food. More from fruits. That will go back up fairly quickly, though, in an established bin. Don't go measuring pH unless you really want to know. I'm just explaining why they sometimes avoid new food.

    Worms sometimes need an adjustment period. It also takes a little time for the rest of the biology of the bin to get established. You can add a little dirt to get that going. I use a little vermicompost from previous bins to get the jump on it. Works like a charm. It's usually called inoculation.

    I, like otis, am also curious if you started with a single tray. I find it best to start with 3. I put unfinished compost (past the thermo stage) in the bottom. This gives the worms somewhere to go down. I put bedding and food in the second. I only put the food on 1 side at first, leaving only bedding on the other. The top tray holds more bedding, but no food. Gives another place for worms to go if they need to for whatever reason, but it also provides a sort of filter for any smells and fruit flies. So it's like a filtering lid more than a tray. Once the second tray goes down a bit and you need to add bedding, just dump the top tray in. The bedding will have absorbed moisture and already have some of the biology running through it that makes for a good worm environment.

    With 3 trays (and more later) you don't have to wait for worms to be "involved" with previous feedings before adding more food. Just make sure they have somewhere to run if they need to.

  • bstruss
    13 years ago

    As to whether it is normal for worms to congregate - yes! I find in my bins that even in addition to finding them around food sources (which is pretty much throughout my bins) there are always areas where they are found thickest. Well, recent articles show that worms display a 'herd' mentality!

  • Sheppy2
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Many thanks for your responses!

    It was interesting to see the videos that show the amount of worms one should get in a pound. We likely only got 250 worms. We called Uncle Jims and they are sending more worms to us. We have no smells and the bin environment appears healthy with worms feeding in the food provided.

    We started with just one tray but we are very interested in starting others. One tray just can't handle the amount of food waste our family generates. So I'm interested to hear about your experience using two or more trays. Note:we started with just one tray as we don't have unfinished compost starter for the first tray as joe.jr317 suggested.

    Given the tray dimensions, I calculate we could put in 3.7 lbs of waste per week using two trays. This amount is about right for our family. We have five total trays. Assuming the Worm Factory stacked tray configuration really does help reduce the number of worms in the bottom-most bin, will adding another "feeding" tray inhibit this process? What is the proper configuration? Should we get a second worm factory or crate a rubbermaid setup instead?

  • rookie09
    13 years ago

    i only use RM's and flow-thrus so I am a little biased but I would set up one of these as a back-up. The whole eggs in one basket thing. Good luck.

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    13 years ago

    "somewhere to run if they need to" Agreed. This is a concept that is seldom talked about yet vital as a safety net.

    "recent articles show that worms display a 'herd' mentality!" Point me in the direction of one, please.

    "3.7 lbs of waste per week" Litte bits of worms can only eat little bits of food. Although I try to disprove that every time I add more food.

    More Worms + More Bedding + More Air - Food = Happier Worms

    An extra bin can provide a Back-up as Rookie says, and allow learning how a different style bin works.

    Looking forward to you getting the "more worms". If you can weigh them on a postal scale with no bedding it would be great. If they are dryish they may weigh less than a pound. But juicy worms are happy worms.

  • tedsfarms
    13 years ago

    I agree to the above responses. Give them acclimation time and space with a comfortable temperature and moisture. Use a couple of different/separate farms in case something bad happens. It is fun to learn how these little guys work their magic.

    hahaha, had to laugh at the food quantity you are using for the amount of worms. That is too much.

    Enjoy the learning curve.

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    13 years ago

    Thank you steamyb.
    I would not have thought it.
    But I guess it is so.
    I agree with their guess that it is so they can stay next to other juicy worms.

  • steamyb
    13 years ago

    I think the squirmers are party animals, just like us. The more, the merrier; as the saying goes. Hope that you had nice holidays. How is the 'project' going? I'm sure you have been following pjames' work at vermicomposters.ning.com. While not exactly what you are doing, I noticed a familiar process. This is the first I have spoken of your 'project', but felt that the question would be cryptic enough not to tip your hand. Anyway, I hope all is well. s

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    13 years ago

    As for the project, I sit and watch, and watch some more, then mess with it a bit and watch even more. Still simple.

    I've moved to a two flow through system for larger and then smaller particulates since I do not pre chop food nor bedding of papergoods.

    I'll have to check in at pjames. If a process is familiar that is comforting because maybe I'm not on a useless track.

    I'm leaning towards not even sides. Or what many would consider sides. Like why do we need sides to bar air? Something like the orange snow fence would be good but not strong enough, plus the dealing with a tiny bit of fall out. But worms need air. And only on top is not enough. More air = more womrs. Maybe just adding air at the bottom is not enough. Why not 360 degrees? Some systems add air with tubes through the vermicompost. I'm not into tubes. Structual strength is again the issue with sides less than 100%. Some systems pump air into the vermicompost. I prefer less work.

    I have not yet been super sucessfull at convincing my vermicompost to fall out of the open bottom of the bin. I spend a lot of time poking at it and then putting it back on top of the same bin. Nor are my worms "friendly" with each other. No eggs or small worms since spring. Hard to be fruitful and multiply that way. I have a very small system.

    Are we bad for hijacking the thread?

    Some vermicomposters bury food in a circle and the worms travel around are capitalizing on the hurd thing? This would mean they are right. I am still surprised.

    I do know that when worms want to crawl out of the bottom of a flow through they seem to all want to do it like it is a thing to do. Jump into the abysis. They freely drop into nothingness.

    I'm pretty much a systems guy, with vermicomposting as part of the system of future rabbits, chickens... Aquaponics too. I walked into a pet store, have not been in one of them in 15 years due to raising human youngens, and get offered a free crayfish so it would not die in the feeder tank it came in with. Crayfish are possibly part of an aquaponics system that is not warm. Maybe they eat worms. It may be better accepted into my family than BSFL. I am working on the foundation of a system.

  • steamyb
    13 years ago

    Yes, we are bad for hijacking the thread.
    Concerning open 'sides', I built a FT out of a plastic laundry hamper. Mine was similar to this model except round with holes completely around the bottom portion (no solid areas).
    http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProduct.html?id=386&view=0amp;picture=1&tab=Specifications&ProductCategory=54&section=2
    It collapsed when the material reached about 12-14". Now my FT is a 55 gallon barrel, not very original, but it works.
    I have found that the worms tend to gather under those foods that are preferred, but in a controlled system, these worms really don't have many options. It's not like they can call in a pizza, or even make a 'beer run'. If they get to the point of making a grocery list for me to fetch for them, I think I will be ready for my own 'controlled system'.

  • PRO
    equinoxequinox
    13 years ago

    I have to remember the huge flow through systems 4' by 4' by 50' their owners have worked very hard to get consistancy of input material. Precomposting cow manure or food and bedding chopped so fine it is almost sprayed on in a perfect even layer. Putting half inch chunks into the top makes it easier to get 1/4 inch chunks out of the bottom. My dream of tossing in whole pumpkins and whole soda case corrigated cardboard and expecting 16 inches later the same 1/4 inch chunks out of the bottom might of been overly optimistic. But I am having a great time trying. I'm thinking now of a cascading approach. By the time I'm done maybe I will have come full circle and of reinvented the worm factory. It would be cool to sit and chat with him.

  • diggerjones
    13 years ago

    How many worms you get per pound depends on their size. Smaller worms = more worms per pound. The advantage of larger worms is they will have more eggs in each egg capsule they lay. But smaller worms tend to handle relocation better. When you order "bed-runs", this will be a shovel full of worms/bedding ,with worms of all sizes and ages from tiny hatchlings to large adults. The amount of worms actually in the bedding can vary greatly. Best to order mature but smaller (not full sized) worms rather than "bed run". You should get 1 pound of worms with 1 pound of moist peat moss.

    Be careful about trying to weigh worms with out bedding - worms can dry out in a heart beat and this will sicken them and/or kill them. It's best to not let worms be exposed to light or be without moist bedding. Feed lightly at first and add more as the worms start consuming it more quickly.

    "Burying food" would be putting moist shredded paper on the food - not burying it into the bedding. This can cause "souring" and heating of the bedding, which will kill your worms. Happy worms will be spread throughout the bedding, unhappy worms will be balled up.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Vermicomposting

  • Shaul
    13 years ago

    A couple of points. 1. Considering that a worm can eat half it's body weight/per day; 3.7 lbs. of food/ per wk. would equal (approx.) 7 lbs. of worms = (approx) 7,000 worms.
    That's 7,000... not 250.
    250 worms = 4 oz. = 2 oz (food/per day) x 7 days = 14 oz (food/per wk). For now, that's what you should be looking at.

    1. The universally-accepted concept that worms need to be living in moist bedding (no wetter than a wrung-out sponge), is a Myth. EF's can live in up to 90% moisture (that's just short of an aquarium). I have two 16 Gal. Rubbermaid-type bins, with shredded cardboard (as bedding) and (approx) 4,000 worms/ per bin). Both my bins are (invariably) very wet and I've never had any problems. In general, the most worms are usually congregated in the wettest part of the bin.
    2. Burying the food means exactly that, not covering it with wisps of moist paper. Last summer I did an experiment. I bought a large watermelon (approx 10 - 12 lbs), cut it in half, scooped out the insides (and ate it), leaving the two shells. I then filled them with all the fruit and veggie scraps I had been saving up. I then emptied out one bin (into separate containers) down to the bottom. Placing the two halves of the watermelon on the floor of the bin, I put back everything I had taken out (worms, castings, bedding). That was in the beginning of Aug. By the beginning of Sept, the whole watermelon, plus all the other food had disappeared.
      Had I put that much weight, on top of the bedding, in one concentrated spot, (without burying it), all the worms directly underneath would have been squished. In the beginning of Nov, I did it again. I had another half of a large watermelon, (that had gone off), that I had 'cooling it's heels' in the freezer for two months. I buried it along with 12 large avocados (minus the pits) in the second bin. (My worms just love Avocados). Within a month, both watermelon and avocados had disappeared.

    Shaul

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