If you have MG seedlings coming up where you don't want them,I would suggest either removing them or transplanting them to where you do want them...

I'd like to see a closeup of the Ipomoea tricolor volunteers you have coming up if at all possible...

TTY,...

Heavenly Blue is sterile so either yours may not have been HB but were similar color MGs and what you are seeing are some volunteers from that or they are some other weed (or some seedlings from some other MGs from who knows where)!

Hmmm. They were labeled Heavenly Blue (from Park's), but I am surprised to see so many around this year. I pulled out about sixty yesterday-- hope I didn't pull out the wrong thing! Am leaving them in the "right" places-- am wondering if I will get true blue MGs this year from them, without having to plant new seeds. Will try to find a picture if I have some remaining today!

Okay - I'd be interested to see what you get too. I bought some Scarlet O'Hara and Grandpa Ott's 3 years ago and haven't had to plant a MG since. I have had a bazillion volunteer seedlings that come up in almost every container I have every year since!

So I'm not imagining it, Jenny. Do your volunteers come up true to form?

Once you plant morning glory, it never, ever, ever goes completely away....

My volunteers have matched the colors (either blue or dark pink) of the originals but I can't vouch for them being identical!

I have heard this incredible re-seeding habit of MGs but it hasn't been true in my yard-BOO HOO-as I LOVE m.glories!! I planted Grampa Otts and Heavenly Blue last year and my neighbor is upset, feels the white morning glory weed she is pulling out of her beds is caused by my mgs...is it true? I thought the weed and the flower mglories were VERY different? Brenda

Well,Heavenly Blue is Ipomoea tricolor and although I have not yet witnessed it successfully self-resow in my zone,it does produce seeds and I'm not sure exactly why Jenny states that it is actually 'sterile'(?)...

The seeds of Ipomoea tricolor usually will not survive the repeated wet freezes,re-freezes and re-thawing of the colder zones...this type of weather turns the seeds into dead 'mush'...but if the mature seeds are collected from the plants before the freezing wetness causes them to burst,the seeds will be viable and can be stored indoors for Springtime planting...
I've heard of people saying that they have had I.tricolor successfully self-resow in colder zones,but I have not seen this first hand yet...it is potentially possible that if the right type of 'mulch' were available for the seeds to be protected from the elements that ordinarilly destroy their viability,that they might survive,but again,I've not witnessed this myself in over 4 decades of growing various MG's...

I have seen an increase in various companies using admixtures of Ipomoea tricolor,Ipomoea purpurea and Ipomoea nil...despite whatever botanical name is offered on the marketing/packaging,and the Ipomoea purpurea will usually survive the frosty wet seasonal changes ...

Ipomoea species will not ordinarilly hybridize across different species(i.e.,inter-specifically) by natural cross pollination...there are a small number of exception species that will,but they are all closely related to Ipomoea batatas>Sweeet potatos,and none of the ornamental types that are grown or being addressed here are in that category...

The Calystegia and Convolvulus species that are called by the common name of 'Bindweeds' are most definitely not derived from any of the ornamental Ipomoea species...apples do not turn into oranges...

The West Coast of the US is the Bindweed capital of the World...the majority of Calystegia species are truely native to the Western US...so,'huffy' neighbors might due best to consult with their local agricultural extension for some continuing education on the many bindweeds native(!) to the Western USA...

There are some species of Ipomoea like Ipomoea hederacea,Ipomoea lacunosa,Ipomoea triloba etc.,that can often appear as 'volunteers' as a result of natural dispersal by winds,rain waters,animals etc., and these are often mistaken as leftovers from a former intentional ornamental planting...these Ipomoea species usually have very small flowers,but Ipomoea hederacea usually has a blue flower and could possibly be mistaken for the usually larger flowered ornamental types...

Hope something mentioned is helpful...

TTY,...

Ron

P.S. If you can get a good closeup of the volunteerrs,especially including the embryonic leaves,I can probably ID the seedlings...

Heavenly Blue has been widely reported as being a self-sterile cultivar - not just from the seed companies but per reports right here on this forum and some other forums, where the posters had hoped for reseeding of what was their favorite.

Of course if anyone is growing it this year, then save the seeds and see if they sprout. I know that I have yet to even get it to produce any seeds at all when I have grown it (as opposed to other cultivars that I've grown that reseed like crazy).

Hi jenny - I would agree that the Ipomoea tricolor usually do not successfully self-sow in the colder zones,but my position would be that they are most definitely NOT sterile...self-sterile would imply that the plants would not be capable of self-fertilization and producing viable seeds...

Ipomoea tricolor is often confused with Ipomoea indica,and although Ipomoea indica is often self-infertile due to most plants being from clones,Ipomoea indica as a species is not self-sterile and can produce many seeds...

I have collected viable seeds from all of my Ipomoea tricolor seeds for decades and have maintained some of the older cultivars from the seeds that I harvest from my own plants...I would be happy to share some with you...

Could you post a link to any companies that claim that Ipomoea tricolor cultivar "Heavenly Blue" is sterile...I'd be interested to review the accuracy of any photos or botanical ID's that they offer...

TTY,...

Ron

I have had to plow through all the LSD freak links and I should have saved the seed links that I saw before I posted (I will look for them again because this subject is pretty interesting). :-\

Apparently the seeds are being treated to prevent ingestion and release of lysergic acid compounds (for those into trippping) and as a chemist myself, this makes me wonder if this might be part of the problem with certain seeds.

I do have links to other mentions of it (and its brethern) being a "sterile hybrid" (did it as a google cache, which highlights the search words):

Here
Here

This has a mention that it doesn't reseed "easily".

There was one article I read that said that I. tricolor 'Heavenly Blue' was the trade name for an I. purpurea cultivar and Wikipedia indicates that Ipomoea violacea is synonomous with I. tricolor (which you may already know).

But again, this thing about treated seeds really makes me take pause and I wonder whether others outside of I. tricolor are similarly treated and whether the cousin cultivars have similar problems.

jenny - I looked at the links you provided and I think what is happening is that the tendency for the Ipomoea tricolor to NOT successfully self-sow in the colder zones has been transmuted into an 'urban myth' that the Ipomoea tricolor "Heavenly Blue" is 'sterile'...

The fungicide that is applied to some of the MG seeds is suppossed to deter the recreational usage by causing nausea ,but the fungicide is water soluble and easily washed off of the seeds...I am not aware of the fungicide causing any germination problems..

Ipomoea tricolor,Ipomoea purpurea and Ipomoea violacea are 3 separate and distinct species...There is only ONE legitimate botanical species epithet for each species.

The term 'synonym' is often misunderstood and misapplied...the word synonym does NOT mean the 'same as'...in botany,the synonym should refer to the older no longer botanically correct term for a plant...

Ipomoea tricolor and Ipomoea violacea are 2 different and distinct plants despite the massive amount of misinformation that is continually perpetuated,mostly by the sites using these plants for the LSA content...

Richard Evans Schultes and R.Gordon Wasson used the binomial 'Ipomoea violacea' to describe the Ipomoea tricolor when they first described the plants over 5 decades ago,but the plants described by those researchers have since been determined by the Systematic Botany Laboratories to be Ipomoea tricolor...and genetic analysis confirms the nature of the 2 separate plants as very distionct...

Ipomoea tricolor has seeds that are completely glabrous(!) and are of an elongated triangulated shape and being either black or a tannish/beige colration...while Ipomoea violacea has seeds that are a distinct brown color and hairy(!)...The flowers of Ipomoea violacea are a white color with a slightly yellow coloration to the inside tube...The current accepted binomial is misleading in that the flowers are most often white and only very rarely have a pinkish hue to them...but,this would not be the first time that botanical names do not actually reflect the actual attributes of a plant

I have looked through the sites that offer the MG seeds for recreational usage and not a single one of them shows a real picture of Ipomoea violacea(by current accepted botanical standards)...the emphasis of the sites selling MG seeds for recreational usage seems to be more focused on providing what the ill-informed prospective clients expects based on what has been published in botanically outdated literature...RE Schultes stubbornly maintains that the plants he first ID'd as Ipomoea violacea are still 'in fact' Ipomoea violacea,but the rest of the International Scientific community has not seen fit to structure the continuing advances in taxanomic botany around RE Schultes early intial botanical ID's...the genetic evidence as per the gene mapping of Ipomoea tricolor and Ipomoea violacea clearly evidence the very distinct differences between the 2 different plant species...

Ipomoea purpurea is botanically classified as follows:

Ipomoea subgenus: Ipomoea section: Pharbitis series:Pharbitis

Closely related species in the same section include Ipomoea cardiophylla and Ipomoea thurberi

Ipomoea tricolor is botanically classified as follows:

Ipomoea subgenus: Quamoclit section: Tricolor

Ipomoea cardiophylla is a relatively closely related species in the same subgenus and section

Ipomoea violacea is botanically classified as follows:

Ipomoea subgenus: Eriospermum section: Erpipomoea

The common names for Ipomoea violacea include
sea moonflower and beach moonflower

Other species classified in the same subgenus and section include
Ipomoea aquatica, Ipomoea imperati and Ipomoea pes-caprae

Please check out the link I have added for Ipomoea violacea and scroll down to the additional links

Open to any further questions and...

TTY,...

Ron

Here is a link that might be useful: Ipomoea violacea link at PlantFiles

Ron - thanks for the concise explanations! I think your comment at your link regarding the notation of "early forms" of what had been called HB might explain some things.

The below is what I have had as HB:

{{gwi:2648}}

None of the vines that I had the first time I grew it or in subsequent years, produced seed at all for me (ie., no seed heads to even collect). There were references that say that I. tricolor is a "bush" morning glory and I wonder if this is true in terms of such having a shorter habit? It seemed to me that my HBs were less vigorous than my other MGs.

I'll definitely follow the threads to see what people get out of their volunteers!

Hi jenny - A couple things...

I would like to correct a 'typographical' error in my post above as the sentence
"Closely related species in the same section include Ipomoea cardiophylla and Ipomoea thurberi"

is incorrect and cardiophylla should be 'stricken' and relaced with the word barbatisepala and correctly read

Closely related species in the same section include Ipomoea barbatisepala and Ipomoea thurberi

It is unusual to hear that your Ipomoea tricolor are repeatedly not producing seeds or even the early stages of fruit...

The seedless situation you are experiencing could be related to inadequate sunlight,water or nitrogen...

Frequently people will recommend water restriction and/or very low nitrogen,but if the water or nitrogen are too(!) low,this can impair fruit formation...

When growing your Heavenly Blue this year,I would like to suggest that you do a couple of things and see if it ameliorates your seedless condition

1)keep the plants hydrated so that they do not wilt as inadequate water supply can prevent the pollen from hydrating properly

2) Check your flowers for thrips(!)...they eat the pollen and I have watched then completely strip the pollen from the flowers...
Thrips(like Frankliniella occidentalis) are tiny,slender-bodied insects(the Larvae are similarly shaped) of a brown to blackish coloration infesting Morning Glories that jump or fly around when disturbed they can resemble small splinters of wood, but seem to slide,glide or coast as they move along surfaces..they are also often found in roses,hibiscus,irises and in dandelions....

3)After the plants start to flower,give them a shot of bloom booster which is usually macro-nutrient phosphorus based and additionally provide a low nitrogen fertilizer like fish emulsion...some liquid kelp might help for the micro-nutrient trace minerals..

4)try practicing some hand pollination to insure that the stigmas are getting enough compatible pollen

I'd be willing to bet that if you follow these recommendations,that your plants will set viable seed...be sure to start the plants early,because the nipping cold autumn temperatures can sometimes cause fruit failure or the fruits to abort...if the plants flower early enough before the cold sets in too much,you should get nice healthy viable seeds...

TTY,...

Ron

Well here's the kicker - the Grandpa Ott's & Scarlet O'Hara have been grown under similar conditions with no problems in setting seed (they are too prolific in fact), so that to me, rules out general environmental conditions being they are all grown in the same general location (within about 5 - 10ft).

I could try hand-pollination to see if that makes any difference. However this stands out in sharp contrast to my experience with growing other impomoeas (including I. alba), none of which have had any problems setting seed on their own and without manual intervention (other than my providing adequate moisture and low-dose fertilization). Ie., I shouldn't have to coddle them. ;-)

Might be interesting to see what transpires if I try seeds from different packers...!!!

Hi jenny - Well,something(!)is going on at the location if the I.tricolor is not setting seed...Every species is different and even individual plants can display metabolic individuality...both the Ipomoea purpurea and Ipomoea nil types that you mention are setting seed are 'tougher' plants than Ipomoea tricolor...they both have thicker skin(literally) and are definitely more cold hardy...

I want to absolutely assure you that Ipomoea tricolor "Heavenly Blue" is capable of producing viable seeds...I have grown plants from seeds collected from my own and other peoples plants for over 4 decades...

My offer to send you seeds from my own stock still stands if you are interested...

Regarding the 'bush' question...Ipomoea tricolor is a twining vine and not a non-twining bush type...but I have seen the dwarf Ipomoea nil mistakenly referred to as "Bush Convolvulus" in large company catalogs...it's a 'chicken and egg' argument as to where the buck starts and stops as per misinformation marketing to the 'general public'...The Convolvulus tricolor is a non-twining bush type of plant,but this is obviously a different genera and species altogether...

I haven't been posting here on this site very much as I used to...but I do post and correspond alot at Davesgarden where I monitor the MG forum closely,and there is not a single person there who is currently experiencing what you are with the Ipomoea tricolor(s)...in fact many people have been actively selling their seeds on e-bay and getting 'rave reviews'...so,I can't help but think that there is something(!) where these tricolors are growing that is tilting the metabolism to not set seed...trying different seed stock is also a good idea...and I hope something works for you(!)...

Let me know what's happening...

TTY,...

Ron

There ya go! That's sortof what I was sensing from the growth habits where some seemed to be "tougher" than others. HB was to me a much more delicate, almost fragile viner when compared to the others I've grown and this is apparently a species thing.

Thanks also for the clarification on the "bush" vs "vine" subject.

I'll try some different seed to see what happens. I have been slowly putting together a little hummingbird garden in the sky here and MGs are definitely a part of it. I noticed last year when I finally attracted some hummers full time, that in the afternoon as the MGs were closing, the hummers liked to nectar from the closing flowers. They appeared to more readily use them in this state as they could insert their beaks into them better:

Am hoping that I can get HB to do this... (grin). These are all volunteers:

{{gwi:283}}

Thanks for the help!!!!

Hey Jenny! See you over here stirring up trouble, lol!

I have to tell you that my Heavenly Blues reseeded right after the first year I planted them. They were not sterile and they were true to form.

vinelover - Wish me luck this year then! My hummers will thank you. :-D

I have some Cardinal Climbers, Scarlet Runners , and Hyacinth Bean vines begging to go out right now so it's definitely going to be a viney summer here.

Good Luck Jenny! I haven't tried the Scarlet Runners or the Hyacinth Bean vines yet. The morning glories and black eyed susans took over everywhere. I had Cardinal Climber and it turned out to be a big mess. Those vines where hard to train but the little red flowers were pretty. I think I'll do the Scarlet Runners. I'm running out of room though. I only have a shady spot in the front so I have to figure if any annual vine would grow there. If not I'll have to get a shade loving Clematis. Its just so much more fun growing vines from seed though.

{{gwi:1337841}}
by whitevenetino

Here is finally a pic of what I think are my Heavenly Blue volunteers. Remember, I had the area mulched all winter to protect my clemmy babies in this same bed.

whitevenetino - The seedlings in the picture are Maple Tree seedlings...a bit young for maple syrup production,but full of potentiality...

jenny - The hummingbird picture is beautiful(!)...it is unusual to see the hummers going for the Ipomoea purpurea at the end of the day,since by late day nectar production would be at the lowest...
I'm wondering if your hummers go for the Ipomoea purpurea all during the flowering season(?)or more so as Autumn approaches...

TTY,...

Ron

Oh my goodness! Are you sure of this, Ron? I have hundreds of them, all along the trellises where my MGs were (but also in the two beds in front of my house). There are lots of maples around here, though.

I guess I'll be back to planting new MG seeds when the weather warms. Last year I planted them too early-- I think I'll have an easier time if I wait til mid-May at least.

I guess I should go ahead and pull all of these out?

Ron - that full display of MGs mainly happened late in summer and I don't remember them going to them earlier as they were just starting to bloom. I don't know what they were thinking but maybe the shape of that closing flower prompted them to stick a beak in thinking it was something else. I know that 2 of my regulars around that time were juvenile males, so inexperience may have played a role. I had Salvia guarantica 'Black and Blue' and Agastache 'Tutti Fruitti' out there blooming at the same time, so it wasn't like there was a lack of natural nectar (plus my feeders were there). But they seemed to like sticking their beaks in - unless maybe they were finding insects trapped inside that they could eat.

whitevenetino - those do look like little maples. Many maples are very prolific at reseeding, so unless you want little trees there, you might want to carefully remove those.

What kind of clematis do you have? Sounds like you have a viney spot like mine has been becoming! LOL

(my clematis - a "Prince Charles" group 3, is several weeks early with its growth, so it is currently growing out of control...lol)

Just thought I'd add my experience with HB. I also noticed that there were no seed pods left behind once the flowers dropped. I thought that was odd, but now I understand why after reading this post. I have to say that when the first bud opened on Saturday, it was the most beautiful flower I'd ever seen! Even my husband who never thinks twice about plants and flowers was amazed by it. Thanks guys!

Hi gardeniarose,

I'm wondering if you might be able to post a picture of your Heavenly Blue...I'd really like to see your flowers...

TTY,...

Ron

P.S. did you start your plants from seeds or were they a perennial type of volunteer...do the plants have leaves exactly like jenny's or is there the slightest bit of trilobing to some of the leaves...

Ron,
I started my HB's from Ferry Morse seeds I bought at Lowe's. The leaves are like Jenny's with no trilobing. I will post pics later today. One is open fully and 2 are on their way. I guess the sun hasn't fully hit them yet.

OK, stupid question: How did you all post pictures here? I did not have that option just now when I tried. Thanks.

gardeniarose - You need to find a place to host your pictures and then you can include the code that the host place offers so that it can display within your post (most of the bigger photo hosting places like Picturetrail, Webshots, Flickr, etc. will tell you what code to cut and paste). Or you can just include a link to the place where the picture is hosted.

Just as an FYI, I noticed some volunteer MGs have sprouted in my pots this week. So it begins!!! LOL