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beverlyfladeziner

Help! Ants and Bleeding Heart

BeverlyFLADeziner
10 years ago

Okay there are 43 pages of posts for Bleeding Heart vines, but all I want to know is how to safely kill what's eating my leaves. I'm assuming it's ants.

I'm here in Zone 10, facing South. I just planted it this year and it's growing great, but the first 2ft. have been munched to death. Help.

Comments (9)

  • morz8 - Washington Coast
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    First, don't know if you mean bleeding heart vine dicentra scandens, or bleeding heart vine Clerodendrum thomsoniae. But in either case - Not likely ants, and you can't treat until you know what your target is. Go out after dark with a flashlight and take a look for night feeders if you aren't seeing anything in the daytime. Begin about dusk, make another trip later if you don't find anything.

    I'd suspect slugs or snails first, but you need to do a little detective work and not guess.

  • PRO
    BeverlyFLADeziner
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Clerodendrum thomsoniae.

    I don't usually encounter snails where this is planted. Here's a picture of its current condition. I've lost the first few feet in leaves and you can see many of the other leaves are shredded from something eating them.

    I'll do what you recommend and see if there is anything there after dusk, but ants are there at all times of the day.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    10 years ago

    I would look for army worms or other undesirable caterpillars. The ants may be farming aphids, a whole separate matter from the holes in the leaves.

  • morz8 - Washington Coast
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That does look more like some kind of caterpillar damage than snails in your photos, I'm surprised it's just showing up in the lower area and not up and down the height. But please go out at night and see if you can't find the pest at work, it's not ants.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    10 years ago

    Do you see a lot of lubbers? I'd suspect pill bugs too, from what I've seen this summer, and in other people's pics, it's a banner year for them and some things they just find irresistible even though they're perfectly alive.

  • PRO
    BeverlyFLADeziner
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay, I was out last night with flashlight, glasses and magnifier and saw nothing. No snails, no catepillars, no grasshoppers.

    Today, there are ants here and there the length of the vine and there is this one flying bug with the striped wings that loves this plant. There is some debris on the underside of a few leaves, but it's not consistent.

    Do I just spray the vine with soap mixed with water before they eat all the leaves?

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    10 years ago

    If you can't see what's eating your plant, spraying something probably won't help. If the culprit is something that flies and is not there at that time, or something that's coming up from the soil at night, the spray won't have any effect.

    "There is some debris on the underside of a few leaves" This sounds like spider mites, as they are a common pest found under leaves, but not sure what you mean by debris? Is it spider-webby, or something else?

    Caterpillars can be really hard to find, especially in large plant like that. I'm still thinking it's something like this, army worms. Often right about the time you get really frustrated and decide "I'm gonna check every leaf," they're finished and have moved on, so no treatment can help after that point. When a leaf is chewed it soon develops a brown edge along the chewed edge. If you can find a chew mark that hasn't turned brown at the edge, that can help you find a caterpillar. Also, look for poo - little black spots. Do you see anything like that? I didn't in your pics, but it doesn't always stick to the leaves.

    Is the damage still progressing?

  • PRO
    BeverlyFLADeziner
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No spider webs.

    Here are some not so great pics of what I found the first night. It's been raining here some times two times per day.

    This is poo on the leaves, but it's big and that's from the little lizards that climb through the vines. Are they eating my leaves? There are lots of those.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    10 years ago

    No, lizards are carnivores, but I'm glad you brought them up. They eat about any little bug or critter that will fit in their mouth, as long as they see it move, they will try to eat it. They're one of the good guys, and a reason not to spray, probably at all, but definitely not 'blindly' without knowing who the culprit is. It would be a shame to hurt the lizards (anoles?) who are doing what they can to keep pests off of the plants. They eat anything from fruit flies to house flies, moths, mosquitoes, whiteflies, earwigs, pill bugs, they are "on our side." After spending quite a lot of time observing them, I often think we'd be up to our ankles in just house flies if it wasn't for them, then up to our butts in moths (which are caterpillars for part of their life) on top of that.

    If you do feel like you need to spray something, please 'molest' the plants a bit first, to scare away any anoles. Move the stems around a bit, ruffle the leaves with your hands, they will freak out and run away somewhere else.

    Unfortunately, the anole I saw try to eat an army worm didn't seem interested. The last worm I found, I put it in the middle of the porch and sat down to watch. When it started moving, sure enough, an anole ran over and grabbed it. He held it in his mouth for a few seconds, ran a few steps, and spit it back out. (So I flung the army worm into the lawn, where it's welcome to chew on grass if it wants to, but hopefully a bird ate it.) BUT, after it turns into a moth, it's on the menu, the small enough ones anyway.

    Took a couple pics just now, this is an anole poo:

    Caterpillar poo (which can be smaller or bigger than this, depending on the size of the caterpillar. Most start out almost microscopically small, then get MUCH bigger.) Looking above the poo can be a way to find them.

    I don't see anything that looks like anole or caterpillar poo in those pics. The leaves look like they are damaged rather than that there is something on them, to my bi-focal'ed eyes. Could be edema, or could just be the first chew marks of really tiny caterpillars. If the poo gets rained on, or just wet by dew, it can cause spots like that on leaves also.

    Too much rain here has caused a lot of plants to look pretty sad by now, when they should be in their prime. Sounds like your plant is battling that also. On the positive side, chewing this year shouldn't affect the plant for next year, plants are made to deal with this, but I share your frustration and also wish I was more talented finding these things. They (or some other kind of caterpillar) have eaten every leaf off of some plants while I was stuck inside because of rain.

    There's some hilarious irony though. I finally got a passion vine going great this year, which I planted for the specific purpose of being food for gulf fritillary butterfly caterpillars...