Welcome !:-)
Don't know how is violet behavior in California, what is to do in order to have the best result but...why everybody thinking violets love shade places ? They can live in a shade one but believe me they prefer sunny places; the more they get sun, the more they make flowers :-)
Maybe the best thing to do is to put the container in a shade place during summer, most of all, do NOT forget to sprinkle...
If someone is having a good experience of violets in California, come on, give better advices :-))

All the best :-)
Thierry.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1339406}}

Oooh Thierry, that's a gorgeous flower! It actually does have a few buds on it despite the season. thanks for your advice, I know it will be outside, and probably on my porch under a tree, where I keep my Cymbidium. I just hope I can keep a nice watering schedule and that it will get cool enough for it to do well. I think it may have a fighting chance since the nursery is in zone 8 (you all know of which one I speak :-)). Thanks for the cultural advice! My curiousity turned into a responsibility that I want to bloom and smell.

minibot

hi, minibot,
i believe your bay climate is similar to my bay climate.
i think violets do well as open garden plants in both our zones...
try it in a few places in your yard. you will soon see where violets are happy. good luck!

rob..

Okay, thanks! I'll check out other websites for more culture info, I only have the one plant, and it's getting cooler and moister out there, more like the UK ;-) so I have hopes that it will work out. I'm going to try a container under my tree. I wish I could afford a drip irrigation system. I must look into a manual one where you just hike a bag up over the plant and it drips...that way it will remain moist in this current climate of no rain.

minibot

Violets are able to cope with lack of rain for quite a while if you plant them when young, which allows them to develop their roots, which can penetrate quite deeply in search of water. ...Which is one of the reasons why they can be a problem to eliminate from lawns. So I would be tempted to try planting your violets in the soil not in a container. But... ...If the soil gets really dry, even deep down, as it might under a big tree or hedge, that would probably be too much of a challenge for your violets. If you can plant them in good light, not too close to trees, they would stand a better chance. You know your conditions best.

But in general, V. odorata type violets such as yours have been grown in California for decades; OK, CA covers a lot of area and climate. The Garibaldis (Ano Nuevo Nurseries) used to grow them commercially in California; maybe they still do; it is a long while since I talked with Don. You'll see mention of John Whittlesey below; he still grows them, up in Oroville. Anyway, you should be able to find a solution.

Here's some advice I gave to somebody else in California back in 1999. I know it is more general than a comment on your Barrone Alice de Rothschild, but it may give you a few ideas.

Hi Sherry,

Thanks for your question (attached).

Although many cultivated violets grow in fairly well-watered and not-too-hot garden situations, there are many species of Viola which naturally inhabit hotter and drier locations. Some of these are native to the USA. Be aware, however, that all or most of those suitable for you in LA will naturally lose their leaves in summer.

V. beckwithii might be worth trying. It is very attractive in flower and its finely dissected foliage, and it is also nicely scented. It naturally grows at highish elevations - up to 6,000ft in the Great Basin, but comes down at least as low as 3,000ft. That's as regards its native range - in the garden it might still do OK. However, the elevation means it gets plenty of water as the snow melts in the spring - and I don't know how wet it might be in LA in spring. It blooms in spring before withering with the summer heat, spending the hottest times of the year resting as a root well below the soil surface. But don't tidy it up too much - each spring it will send up new shoots through the withered remains of the previous season's stems; if you remove the dead leaves and let the soil fill the stem's hole, the soil can 'pan' (harden) and prevent the violet coming through next spring. It naturally grows amongst sagebrush in gravelly soils. The closest to LA you'll find one of these violets in the wild is Inyo County, CA.

Closely related to V.beckwithii are Vv. douglasii (Douglas violet) and trinervata (sagebrush violet). Both of these grow in similar habitats to V.beckwithii and hence would be worth trying. So when trying to find a source for V.beckwithii, ask for these others at the same time. V.douglasii would be worth tracking down since it feels at home in well-drained sunny hillsides and at low altitudes and as far south as San Diego County. It is almost exclusively Californian. V. trinervata is scented like beckwithii, and although it grows in soils which get baked solid in summer, its native range does not extend further south than Oregon, so it might just object to cultivation in LA.

In semi-desert of Utah, Nevada, and California Viola purpurea (pine violet) occurs, and in several forms (a source of much confusion for the botanist). If you can get hold of any form(s) of this, it is worth a try in your LA garden. Despite its name, it is usually yellow flowered.

Saving the best until last... V.pedunculata (California golden violet, Johnny-jump-up) would be worth tracking down since it can make a glorious show on well-drained low sunny hillsides - not perhaps up to the California poppy in dazzle-factor, but nonetheless a lovely spectacle. And it is native to southern California - perfect for you. I understand it is sold as a cut flower by florists, though I have never had the pleasure of seeing it as such. Nor have I seen it in the field. Maybe you could keep an eye open for it on your travels (best March to May): various places southwards from Sonoma County, including the Carmel River Valley near Monterey, and some of the islands offshore southern California. Tell me if you find it.

These violets are not often offered by nurseries, but horticultural societies' seed exchanges might list them; and of course you could try asking in the SweetViolets discussion list if anybody has seed. Also try John Whittlesey. If he can't help with any of the species I have mentioined, I know he has collected Viola seed from a small hot gravelly plateau near Oroville, CA (a long way north of LA, I know). I don't know which species he found there, but whatever they were might do well for you.

What about species from semi-deserts elsewhere in the world ?
V.arborescens comes from near sea-level in the western Mediterranean, often growing in crevices in baking limestone rocks. It is twiggy and has narrow greyish leaves, but the flowers are not very showy. There are several species from Turkey to India might grow for you, but I have little information on them and I expect it would be very difficult to obtain seed. So, on balance, I would suggest sticking with US species.

You can find photos of most of these species at the UC Berkeley Digital Library Project on the Web: go to http://http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/photos/flora/ and search for Viola.
Also have a look at the California Native Plant Society's web site http://endeavor.des.ucdavis.edu/cnps/

Last point: I have mentioned seed rather than plants. This is because most of the aridity-tolerant species adapt to their soil as they grow over several years, and can be next to impossible to dig-up (because of fragility of the roots and hardness of the soil) and transplant. And nurserymen would be unlikely to sell plants grown in pots since they would not establish well, methinks.

Hope this helps,
Good luck,
Regards,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: SGra361920@aol.com [SMTP:SGra361920@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 7:17 AM
To: SweetViolets@onelist.com
Subject: [SweetViolets] Re: Welcome to SweetViolets@onelist.com

From: SGra361920@aol.com

Hi. My name is Sherry and I live in central La. My first questions is can
Sweet Violets be grown in zone 8. We may have been rezoned to Zone 9 due to
the heat of the passed few years - I do not know if they have rezoned yet,
but I did hear the zones where no longer accurate. I'm a very stubborn
gardener - I'll give it another try anyway. I planted one last year, but it
disappeared within a few days. I'll try again this fall. Nothing much
survives this summer heat. Besides gardening, I'm also a crafter. I'm
looking forward to reading your list.

Thank you for the information. I did have my friend get the violet from John (by way of a few months ago) because I was so excited she lived near a violet source and I *really* wanted to smell one!

Growing one wild, well, geez, I'm wondering if it's possible here, but I hold out hope. I bet they'd do wonderfully at my cabin in the mountains of California. Unfortunately I don't own my property and the soil is really hard and dry and sandy from us being an island that used to be a penninsula.

I should run up to the Botanical Gardens and see what they think for this area. I guess I can always manipulate my yard for moisture. We don't really get that hot here, except for a few days in the summer, but it has been warmer in recent years compared to the more foresty conditions when I was growing up as a child. There seemed to be more grasses and spittlebugs and salamanders and moisture/rain and overcast fog in those days, and I can imagine them growing in my childhood backyard easier than in my current backyard that is host to lemons, cacti, crabgrass and bougainvillea.

minibot

Hmmm - there's an interesting perspective on ?global warming?

Cabin in the mountains ... sounds wonderful (apart from the midges - I remeber only too well being harangued by them when photographing Dodecatheon and many another flower in the high meadows of Yosemite)

Concerning the dryness in summer and your apparently difficult soil/dryness: bear in mind V. pedunculata dies off in summer - the perfect way to deal with such a situation. I don't know if the BG at Berkeley have Viola in their collection; I would like to think so, but when I was there, it was before my interest in violets and pansies blossomed :(
Sean Hogan is/was the curator of Berkeley BG, and supposedly he has some experience of growing (or at least germinating) rosulate Viola species. ...Just in case you need something to get a conversation started :)

Yes, it seems just a tad warmer than when I was little. We used to get frost on the lawn in the winter when it would get cold. Now, my mom grows hibiscus with no problem! I even remember it snowed once in my hometown, which is at sea level or so. I still haven't planted the violet in the ground or in a container...should be fine as that's how it was at its nursery.

So far, so good! It's in bloom and smells wonderful! Here's a looksee:

I'm really pleased with the blooms! I just am still not certain what to do with the plant. I rent, so I don't want to plant in the ground...the plants have deeper roots so I don't want to put it in too small of a container. Anyone here grown in a container and can provide suggestions? I'm worried I'll lose this beauty. As it is, it seems fine in the little pot, although it was eaten by a caterpillar of unknown origen :-(

minibot

Hi !

Beautiful pic and violet :-) Thanks for sharing with us that pleasure/treasure.
All my violets are in pots.
The bigger the pot is, the bigger your violet will be, like every normal plant ! Moreover, don't forget violets are making stolons: it's definitively easy to let them live near the "mother".
Anyway, change it: your violet will enjoy a new rich compost thus nutritive.
Don't worry too much about loosing it. Your viola is on a good way :-) Congratulations :-) Even if viola Baronne De Rotschild is not making a lot of seeds, you'll have some: you'll be able to make a new start if something wrong happens.

All the best :-)
Thierry.

I planted mine in metal trough containers bought from Ikea (they needed holes drilled, but that was no big deal). They love it there, in their soil which was commercially bagged compost (well on its way to being little more than black topsoil, but there are still chunks of organic matter, and the violets are extremely happy).

Stefan

In general, I'd go along with a large container of one shape or another, too.

If it is wide, it will allow runners to be rooted before being cut off, if you want to do that; it will also allow a little more moisture in the air (from the soil) which will help deter RSM.

If it is deep (as well as wide), that will suit the violet's liking to put its roots down deep - which will make it less vulnerable to drying out. But with all that soil, there is a possibility it might go sour before the violets' roots get to exploit it all, in which case, I'd be prepared to poke holes in it - to let the air in. That's least likely to be a problem if the container is outside, though - where the rain can wash through it, and where the air circulation is good.

Thnx for the piccy; good to see the plant looking well, and good to hear you're obviously happy about it :)

Thanks for the advice, I went out and purchased a wide, long and deep planter in plastic, now I just have to get it set up in there! I hope it won't rot...I guess I'll have to drill extra holes to ensure good drainage...it only came with one. Apologies to those viola collectors who get heart palpitations every time they read my subject line. It's only new to me :-)

Jill