Hello !

Are there really human beeing leaving in zone 4 ? ;-) Can hardly believe that ;-)p (just kidding)
Well, you could try viola odorata (wild form, not a cultivar). If you don't put it in a pot but in the grown, who knows ? Nature (dead leaves and the snow) may protect the roots when the winter is too hard !
Does someone have an idea or made a try ?

You're right, let's forget parmas ;-)

All the best :-)
Thierry.

Karen,

Good on you for trying.
...and I would guess lots of aspects of gardening can be trying in Z4 :)

By all means try V. odorata, as Thierry suggests. It is generally considered as hardy to z5, but z4 seems likely in some cases, especially if it can get a little protection.

But also try V. blanda, which is native to MN - see link.
Also note "Propagation by dividing rhizones in Fall. Replant six inches apart with the crownsat the soil surface and mulch generously with decaying deciduous leaves. Collect seeds in earlysummer and sow immediately in outdoor flats. Transplant seedlings to the garden after their first growing season. Cultivation - mulch with deciduous leaves in Fall. Spreads readily where leaf mold is deep. Tolerates full sun to light shade. Good groundcover. Attracts rabbits." [from http://hometown.aol.com/jyex2/garden_planted_flowers_and_plants.htm]

And if I may repeat Stefan said on this forum:
"Posted by StefanB8 z4a MN (My Page) on Mon, Mar 24, 03 at 22:03
Now that the weather here has warmed and the snow melted, the violets cannot be far behind! I just wanted to share a picture I took last spring of a tiny bouquet of Viola blanda - it looks like a large bundle, but in reality was just one inch across! And the fragrance is heavenly - honey-sweet and quite powerful when the tiny blossoms are brought together in this way. Soon they will be back again, faithful as ever :)"
I hope that'll do for fragrance.

Mike

Here is a link that might be useful: Viola blanda at USDA Plants Database

Karen, do you ever get up to Rice Creek Gardens in Blaine? They have a couple of varities of Viola odorata for sale, including 'Semperflorens', 'Rosea', and 'Lianne'. As for Viola blanda, that may be difficult to track down - if I were back home, I would pot some up for you as it's quite happy in my yard. It does take a fair-sized patch to make a small bunch of flowers, though, so you get more bang for your buck (so to speak) out of the true sweet violets. The Viola odorata 'Sulphurea' for sale at Rice Creek also has a very faint, unusual scent of coconut lotion to my nose, but not everyone seems capable of smelling it and there may be variation between different clones (it pays to sniff before purchasing). Beware of the non-running variety they're selling as either White Butterfly or White Butterflies or something similar, though - is is completely devoid of scent in spite of its advertised fragrance. I don't know of any other Minnesota nurseries that sell true sweet violets, or any other fragrant kind for that matter. But it's useful to know they're there.

On the subject of parmas, I did try a 'Marie Louise' outside one winter and although it died, I'm not sure it was strictly because of the cold. It tolerated temperatures down quite far without any trouble so with some protection, I would definitely try it again. I would not delude myself again with grandiose expectations, however :-)

Good luck,

Stefan

Thanks guys! Stefan, I haven't been out to Rice Creek, but I have taken a peek at their website! I think they're closed now for the season, but come spring I'll take a trip out there. I'm hoping to try a window box full of violets, which should bring them into nice nose proximity, along with enabling me to plant them close together. I still harbor dreams of somehow wintering those parmas over... maybe I'll be the one to break the secret parma code! As for ground planting, I don't have a problem getting leaf litter into my beds, with 8 fully mature deciduous shade trees lol. I'll give it a shot!

Yes, Rice Creek does close for the season rather early (and opens rather late)... but it's fun to visit once in a while for all of their rock garden goodies and interesting shrubs and shade perennials. They have a good display garden out front with shrub and old roses, and a shade display garden way out back behind their greenhouses, so you might want to time your first visit around late June.

If you're just looking to overwinter a parma successfully, then the most perfect option is quite possibly the back of your refrigerator (steady temps just above freezing, what could be better?). Of course, you lose the benefit of the fact that they will bloom from fall through spring under short daylength conditions (as long as they're kept fairly cool). If you had a chilly east-facing window, though, or perhaps a cool basement/garage with a fluorescent light setup, you might very well be able to enjoy this plant indoors - except (just like indoor roses) you'll have to keep a close eye out for spider mites. Fortunately, they readily accept spraying with oil without complaint; because I don't have access to the ultra-refined petroleum-based oil I used back home, I resort to canola oil diluted in water with a little mustard flour as an emulsifier to combat mites on my window box violets here. It works like a charm!

Good luck, and keep us all updated :-)

Stefan

Speaking of canola oil on Parmas...

I use rape seed oil (the same thing) bought commerically against RSM, but I cannot use it on Parmas or V. glabella because it damages the leaves too much. I have used it diluted, which those plants did seem to tolerate better; but I did that in an ad hoc fashion, so I don't know how much dilution... Your use of mustard flour as an emulsifier is intriguing, Stefan - I'll have to try adding that to my experimentation kit. Thanks.

Speaking of chilly east windows... I DO have an unheated attic window that faces east... Because it is surrounded by the rest of the house, it doesn't get very warm in there, but it doesn't get freezing either, that may just be the ticket. I'll have to put a thermometer in there to check and see what I'm dealing with!

When I was in college, I actually did buy a parma for my dorm room. I put it in the windowsill in the morning and the fridge at night every day. It was just about to bloom when I left for thanksgiving break, and when I came back, my roommate had killed it! (sob) So that might be an option... although I'm still a little traumatized from the whole thing.

Karen :)