Many countries throughout the world have banned the sale and use of products containing glyphosate because for the envrionmental damage they do as well as the harm to humans they do. These products are not good to use.

Hi Kimmsr,

Can you recommend a "safe" alternative to the roundup for use as I've described (selectively killing the emerging BG sprouts - something absorbed through the leaves that will kill the whole shoot)?

Thanks,
Anne

The process that you are referring to is called "wicking" by farmers, touching only those rogue plants with glyphosate that are negative to a crop . It kills them and leaves the rest of the crop, because Roundup only creates phytotoxicity on what it touches. You can use a large artist's paint brush (or even larger) in a mixture of Roundup and paint it on vs. spraying, where aerial droplets can migrate by wind to the good plants. Brushing avoids this as well as inhalation of the product. Follow the recommendations for personal protection - gloves, long sleeves, etc.
Kimmsr, I am not trying to hassle you, but if you have good reason and factual proof that glyphosate used in this manner is bad, what is it? I am willing to listen.
I have found the Swedish Hardell / Eriksson study that relates to genetically modified organisms ("Roundup ready" corn, beans and so on). They are drenched in the product, creating a different scenerio with which even I might agree. If no contact occurs between the food producing plant and glyphosate, it is doubtful that there will be any chance of malady occuring to humans. The same is true of the reproductive studies - you have to eat it to be exposed to the possibility of the malady. Once glyphosate hits the soil it no longer can be absorbed into the plant.
I am a certified, state licensed pesticide applicator and use all of the personal protection equipent (gloves, long sleeves, eye protection etc. recommended for any chemical, including Roundup. I question that brushing Roundup onto bermuda grass will give one cancer or reproductive problems. It seems to be the safest way to apply it.
Hortster

Thanks for the comments, Hortster. I do think I'll go with the roundup as I already have it and will be using a miniscule amount on the emerging BG.

I think what I might do is get a 4oz bottle of Elmer's Rubber cement (under $2) with the brush in cap, dump out the rubber cement and let the remnants dry so that I can just rub it off the surfaces. I'd prefer this system as I wouldn't have to deal with washing or disposing of a separate brush each time I do an application. I could have the bottle of roundup in the veggie area and do a quick application whenever I see a BG grass sprout without having to deal with a "stand-alone" brush (OK, I'm lazy LOL!)

Anne

Our USEPA ground water people have found glyphosate products in your drinking water and many researchers have found that these products do have adverse affects on humans. Many European countries, Denmark being the latest that I am aware of, have banned the sale and use of these products for that reason. The information is there, but many people discount that research as having been done by "flakes". The manufacturers of these products do a very good snow job and the EPA pesticide people, many of whom had jobs in that industry, go along.

If you are bending over to paint the plant why not pull it out. It does not sound like your garden has been taken over by the grass, yet. Find a short handled tiller with tines and decrease your stress.

Hi Maifleur,

The bermuda grass "sprouts" I want to kill with the roundup are those that poke through the weedblock. Unless I cut or tear the weedblock to access the "stem" or runners, there's not really enough to grab on to in order to pull out the whole weed. If I just grab the exposed weed (portion above the weedblock) and yank, the tip just breaks off with the rest of the plant still lurking beneath the weedblock ready to send up new "sprouts."

Anne

Aclum, even though kimmsr will not believe me, I am for as little chemical contamination as possible to get the job done. It is unfortunate that we spend so much money and research on new chemical responses to undo our screw ups. However, if we suddenly stopped all chemical solutions to our horticultural and agronomic problems, now that we have gotten ourselves here by gradually gentetically strenghtening insect and disease predators by the use of man-made products and somewhat blindly building this predatory resistance, the world would starve. Sometimes a man-created malady needs a man-created solution, hopefully those to lessen the problem(s) created.
The use of vinegar, brushed onto Bermuda can topkill it but needs to be vigorously reapplied with each re-emergence. But, if studies were done, the acetic acid in vinegar is probably detrimental to the environment. Go figure. Soon we will have vinegar resistant Bermuda...
Hortster

I am never sure why some people are paranoid enough to think that what I post on these forums is a personal attack on them. Not something I do, as a rule. What I try to do is provide information, of a general sort, to help anyone that wishes to learn do so.

Ditto. Absolutely.
Hortster

It is unfortunate that misinformation continues to be repeated about glyphosate. Denmark has not banned glyphosate, nor have "many European countries".

Denmark at one point thought that some of the monitoring they were doing showed that glyphosate could move into agricultural field drainage water in autumn but once they looked at their data and related it to the methodology they used, they enacted no ban whatsoever. As the Danish Environmental Protection Agency specifically stated:

http://www.egeis.org/home/main/Evaluation-GlyphosateDEPA.PDF

"Against this background, the Danish Environmental Protection Agency believes that no unacceptable risk of pollution of the groundwater is associated with the currently approved agricultural use of glyphosate. The Agency thus does not consider that the updated state of our knowledge provides any technical grounds for the imposition of restrictions on the autumn application of glyphosate."

Used properly, glyphosate will not pollute drinking water nor will it have adverse effects on humans. Once applied, it binds tightly to soil particles and is not herbicidally active. If it is applied to hard surfaces such as sidewalks it can move offsite of course. It can also move if there is active soil erosion carrying soil off site. It is of very low toxicity, and breaks down completely into natural constituents over time. It is of equal or lower toxicity than most household products such as detergent, soaps, shampoos, cleaners etc. and far less toxic than some of the "alternatives" often discussed such as bleach, kerosene, high strength vinegars and so on. There is so much misinformation being repeated on the web that it is difficult to get reliable information. This link provides an published overview of the available literature.

Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology
Volume 31, Issue 2, April 2000, Pages 117-165
Safety Evaluation and Risk Assessment of the Herbicide Roundup and Its Active Ingredient, Glyphosate, for Humans
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1401479

The information I have was published in June of 2003, newer information than 2000.

Here is a link that might be useful: Denmark bans glyphosates

If you took time to read the Danish EPA link I provided you would have seen that it was dated December 2004. It details why glyphosate is not banned in Denmark. I would also suggest not relying on "Organic Ltd." website for a complete understanding of the issue.

This thread has once again reverted from "weed control" to a discussion of Roundup® as a defense against certain weeds. Let's face it, there are those of us that believe that glyphosate is another chemical evil and those of us that believe that if used properly it can be a boon. As I stated before, I am a licensed pesticide applicator. If I read an honest, effective study that defined glyphosate as an absolute bane in all situations, I would cease applying it. So far, Bermuda in the home lawn is best controlled by this product if properly applied. It does eventually biodegrade to the basics. It sure isn't any DDT.
Hortster

It is amazing to me that people can read the same information and come to very different conclusions. I read that these studies tell me that the safety of any glyphosate product is in serious question and, given my experience with chemical companies around here that dumped "waste" material that is still contaminating the ground water 40 years after they went out of business cause me to adopt the Precautionary Principle that say that if someone wants to sell, or make, something then studies need to be done to prove the product will not, ever, be harmful to any living being.
By the way, DDT is still being manufactured and used in many places in the world.

Geez. I feel like a negotiator trying to bring understanding and peace between Iran and Israel. Probably can't be done.
I DO agree with you that glyphosate, used as a blanket spray on GMO's can be a negative. However, in non-food, minimal use situations, I see it as a positive. To me there is a great difference in applying it in the home landscape vs. millions of acres of agricultural production. Personally, I don't want to eat corn or soy bean products that have been drenched in glyphosate, and although it does biodegrade, I can also accept that it can get into the water supply, albeit for a limited time before it again biodegrades.
My position is that with limited application in ornamental horticulture, namely residential usage, it is not a bane.
It appears that your position is that absolutely no man-made products should be used, ever. Bermuda doesn't go away without man-made products. I would again state that the world would starve if we reverted to this concept. Do you disagree with this statement? I would love to hear your response. If we quit using man-made products, what would your directions and solution be? Again, I look at this thread as an honest discussion of a serious problem.
By the way, Bald Eagles have made a tremendous comeback since the elimination of DDT. If the rest of the world is using it, they are blind.

DDT has not been eliminated, it is still the pesticide of choice especially where Malaria is prevelant because it is effective and it is cheap.
I am not advocating ceasing the use of all man made products, some do have some benefits, but in many instances there is no good reason to use them except the manufacturers have convinced many people that they cannot live without those products. For someone to attempt to make it appear that one persons disagreement is advocating a world wide ban on man made products is totally irresponsible. There are better ways to accomplish the same thing with much less harm to our environment than to spray something that is known to cause harm to many living organisms, although they may involve more physical effort on our part.

Peace, kimmsr. I am not trying to tell you what or how you think. Actually, our goals and philosophies are quite similar. What I have been trying to say is that a cold turkey solution to what the chemical companies have created (dependence) will not work. Yes, there are better ways. Yes, corn gluten meal works organically as a pre-emergent. Yes, composting yard waste and recycling it in our yards is a necessity. Yes, we had better pull our heads out of our...present way of thinking. I guess that we just have different ways of ameliorating the situation.
I have stated that I am a state certified pesticide applicator, but probably not for the reasons that you would suspect. I am a horticultural educator/trainer, landscape designer and chief horticulturist for my company. I have been in this industry for over 35 years. I use materials only in MY yard and only in extreme circumstances. I don't want lawn chemicals in the compost I apply to my garden. I teach others the responsible use of products, namely, the less, the better; don't sell it if it doesn't need it, etc. - that is my way. If you can't whip 'em, join 'em, then slow 'em down, steer 'em the right way.
Sincerely! Hortster

If you are a Licensed Pesticide Applicator you should be aware that farms use less of these pesticides than does average Joe Homeowner who goes to one of the Big Box stores to buy "something" to control what they percieve to be a problem and are sold a product that more often than not is inappropriate by people that do not know what they are really selling. Very often on these very forums we get people writing in that someone at the garden center sold them a very broad spectrum poison that did not help the situation because what was sold was not what was needed. For most people employed at any garden center telling someone that just a simple sharp spray of water will help more than some poison off the shelf is not an option.
People should always start with the least toxic means of control and often if they would wait a couple of days the "problem" would be taken care of for them by beneficial insects. But many gardeners want something right now, get rid of this now, not tomorrow.

I experience this manner of thinking daily (I want that weed dead tomorrow). I would again plead that you examine my concept to ameliorate this problem. Chastisement won't get as many followers as gentle guidance. I am done with this thread, because it could go on forever and likely to no good end. I will present my thing to this forum, you, yours. I still say that we are after the same goal. Onward and upward. Adios.
Hortster