I'm thinking they could be if you are not careful. I'm not worried about ticks though, I'm worried about snakes, particularly poisonous snakes. I saw a Cottonmouth/Water Moccasin in my yard (I live on a lake and the embankment down to the lake is very steep and lush with foliage) and my next door neighbor saw one the other day, too. I want to get in there and clear out some of the vegetation, but I'm hesitant to do so for fear of getting bitten by a viper. I was even looking online today for some snakeproof boots!

Adam: I have had deer ticks here before I began gardening for wildlife. I live in the northeast quadrant of the state. I have a feeling that you would have them either way with the deer over population. I have no doubt that each action in life has a reaction. I suppose the thing is that you have to weigh out how much risk you want to take. My feeling is that you have to be diligent in checking for ticks regardless of what you do outside.......gardening or no gardening. I know many people that have contracted Lyme and have no idea how they got it. I believe it is now a fact of life in this part of the country.......unfortunately.

My husband and I both contracted Lymes in our previous home, where almost nothing grew! My daughter contracted it since we moved here and expanded our gardening efforts,but there are ticks on Long Island, particularly on the East End. I let my daughters go in the woods, because how can you have woods and not let kids explore? (IMHO!)I don't think my gardening efforts increase the odds one way or another. Good luck.

Wow Zelda, I wasn't even thinking of SNAKES. I guess we don't have any dangerous snakes in this part of the country. I don't know if I could garden under those conditions. Sounds pretty stressful.

Someone on another thread posted a link to a website that describes gardening practices that increase the tick population and suggests creating a tick free zone around your home. Sorry right now I don't have time to look for it, but will try to find it later.

The suggestions were to avoid brush piles and anything that would bring wildlife into the yard, like deer or mice. Because they bring the ticks. To cut your grass short especially around the edges where lawn meets woodland/shrubs. To keep rock walls clear of plant debris like leaves and weeds, and not provide opeinings for small animals to burrow. To stop using feeders especially in spring and summer. If you have a woodland area, create a 9ft transition area between that and your tick free zone, with a dry edging of either woodchips or gravel around the edge of a lawn that is kept short.

I guess I am just saying that doing all these things must lower the tick population on your own property at least but they are anti-wildlife. Lyme can be a very seriously debilitating condition that I wouldnt want to wish on anyone, especially my family. How can I justify going all out to encourage wildlife into the yard and not take any of these precautions to lower the risk of exposure to ticks, when I am creating more risk to my family by doing so.

I am going to try to compromise a little at least. I am going to have bird friendly shrubs but keep them at the back of the property. I will keep the lawn mowed short around the edge and put a strip of bark nuggets along the edge and keep the area around the shrubs free of debris. I can also move my feeders and bird baths back into the shrub border so that any small animals will not be coming into the area that I can keep around the house that is not attractive to them. We are more urban than suburban so I don't have to worry about deer, but I understand it is the mice that are the problem and the deer are secondary. They get the lyme from the mice.

We started renovating the yard this year. The yard was neglected and overgrown. Lots of leaves everywhere, and a huge brush pile. Attractive to birds and wildlife to some extent. While we were ripping out and cleaning up, we were getting ticks almost every time we went out in the yard. For the past few weeks since doing all that, I haven't seen a tick on anyone, so I think it does make a difference.

I will try to find that link when I can.

Adam

Good points. We should pave over all fields and forests. Parking lots and highways are far safer...
Not

Envirocop...

Is that the best response you can offer? If someone is trying to wrestle with all these sticky issues in this crazy world and come up with a solution that is good for people and good for wildlife, why do you respond that way?

Your response suggests you are reacting to something other than the post...maybe some pet peeve or past frustration. No one was suggesting wild areas should be eliminated or reduced in any way. People don't usually spend a lot of time in the wild woods, forests and fields. So the few times they do they can go fully prepared not to get ticks and check themselves each time.

In your own yard it is different. Many people have small children, pets, and they are in their yards during the good weather often every day all day. To reduce the exposure to ticks is a reasonable suggestion.

If I made a suggestion that seemed unreasonable, I would have preferred you would have addressed that and given a reason for your objection. Have you ever had Lyme disease or known anyone who did? I have and it is a lifelong struggle for anyone who does not discover the tick within the first 24 hrs and receive treatment. Some who receive treatment still have a problem. There is no cure. It is not just a case of having the flu for a week.

Adam

Adam,

I'm not sure there is any way to avoid ticks, outside of living in cities. I worked on a garden all spring, and it was mulched - don't know if it was pine - and I had ticks on me every day. I always shower after work, for that reason.

You might consider wearing insect repellant; although DEET is a carcinogenic. You have to choose your battles.

Some good/bad news: I understang that chronic wasting disease, which decimated western deer populations, has finally reached NY. That means in months or years to come, the deer population will crash. In some places out west, states or towns hired sharpshooters to kill deer, so they wouldn't suffer from this horrible disease and not pass it along.

But ticks have been here way before we were, and they will be here long after, deer or no deer.

Is it possible to get routine Lyme titers on your family? That may make you feel more secure.

The only way a tick can get on you is if you make first contact with it. They rest out at the ends of leaves with their front feet extended and wait for something to brush past. I don't see a need to remove vegetation to avoid getting ticks provided you don't make a habit of walking through it on a regular basis. A little DEET on your legs or at least your shoes should prevent them getting on you when walking along trails. I've spent countless hours in the woods and prairies and have never contracted lyme disease, though I learned at a very young age to check for ticks and how to avoid coming into contact with them. Kids might not stay in the "tick free zone" anyway. I know I certainly didn't. Everyone that I have known to have contracted lyme disease were not accustomed to spending time in the woods and only discovered they had bitten after a week or more. This leads me to think that some might do more to learn how to check for ticks. For dogs there are tick and flea collars which work reasonably well and there are vaccines available.

I suffer from chronic Lyme Disease. My story is all too common. I went to family doctor in August 2002 complaining about joint pain. Blood test came back negative for LD and he sent me to rheumatologist and I got worse and worse and worse. January of this year I had a catheter inserted in my arm vein (PICC Line) and received IV antibiotics for 90 days. Am feeling a little better but probably have to repeat this process at least one more time.
There is so much confusion and misunderstanding about LD it is unbelieveable. Before coming down with this disability I went hiking every weekend. I belonged to Nature Conservency, Sierra Club, several botany clubs and native plant societies. The others on these trips know the drill only too well. IF YOU SEE THE BULL'sEYE RASH YOU HAVE LD. Get to clinic or doctor ASAP and get oral Doxycycline. It is cheap, available and effective in the early stages. If doctor insists on blood test and it comes back negative find another doctor ASAP. The Lyme Spirochete bacteria will only be killed with treatment.
The room where I received my infusions had people from all walks of life. Adolescents to Medicare recepients. Housewives, tire dealer, grocery clerk, athlete, UPS driver, and sadly many who had lost their jobs due to chronic illness. Patients were all caucasian and more females than male. I can't tell you how sad it is, I saw many young mothers with children. Some mothers were suffering from Bell's Palsey which is common among Lyme patients.
Here is a quote from the literature available at the center:
"The resevoir for Lyme Disease is the White-footed Mouse, the Lyme Spirochetes live in the blood of the mouse and are passed to a tick when it feeds on an infected mouse. The white-tailed deer is a major host of the ticks that carry LD and the deer ensures that the ticks and their Lyme Spriochetes have a comfortable place to live and breed".
I am in NE Maryland and there are alot of deer here. Other hotspots are SE Penna, NJ, Long Island, and New England. You have to live like the boy in the bubble to avoid ticks. I walked accross my lawn the other evening, came back inside, sat down and a tick was crawling up my leg.
I am not aware of any testing of the blood supply for LD, I do know that patients like me cannot donate organs. LD can be contracted in the womb, by breast milk, also by sexual transmission.
I think that prevention and early detection of LD is the best advice. Suggestions on the NE forum are overkill.
See link below for more info.
Sam

Here is a link that might be useful: Lyme Disease Foundation

my uncle got lyme disease last year, he got it from his yard cleaning up an overgrown area. theres no deer in or near his area, must have been a field mouse that passed the tick along. he was sick for a few months before he was finally diagnosed, his symptoms were flu like and once he got treatment he said he felt fine. not to make light of it all cases are different but he is back to normal again, healthy and active.
my point is he got this disease and never had bird feeders or even planted flowers, so i dont think any of us who plant to attract wildlife or feed the birds are at more of a risk, maybe were at less of a risk since we are more aware of ticks than most people

Hello again.. :-)

Elly...thanks for your input. Yes, I am sure there is no way to completely avoid ticks or the need for checks each time you are outdoors. Some things that are pretty scary are:

when you hear of people getting bitten and not even knowing it for weeks until they start getting symptoms. How did these people miss having a tick on them?

That as many as 40% don't get the bullseye rash and go to the doctor with symptoms and without the rash, some doctors don't even prescribe antibiotics in time to keep it from becoming chronic.

That some ticks are the size of a period. How do you see that when you are checking? Does showering after exposure assure that you will get rid of them? What about on your back where you can't check? Don't the ticks attach themselves to you and couldn't you shower and still not dislodge it? Isn't it only later when the tick gets engorged with blood that you notice it?

I can't see how Lyme titres would help since you have to catch the tick during the first 36 hours after being bitten to keep it from escalating to a chronic condition, correct? By the time you show positive for a Lyme titre there is a possibility you are already past the window of being able to treat it and keep it from becoming chronic. Lyme titres are not 100% dependable.

Yes, I am sure there are DEET repellents but I wouldn't want to use them.

lycopus...I am not sure if I am following you here. We have a yard, as the rest of you do, we garden in it, use it. We have been pulling out weeds and pruning bushes and mowing lawn etc. and in one week, we found 5 ticks on us. So I don't understand your suggestion not to walk through it on a regular basis. I don't know how you can be certain where exactly in your yard a tick is. If you are maintaining a yard, you are going to be exposed to them.

You suggest that you have been exposed often to ticks without contracting Lyme. Is that to say you do not get ticks on you? Or you find them and get them off right away? So what is it that you do that avoids coming in contact with them? Are there specifics of your technique of checking for ticks?

You suggest vaccines, but I have never heard of them. Have you had a vaccine? If there is an effective vaccine, why aren't doctors recommending it for everyone?

Sam....thanks for that link to the Lyme Disease Foundation. I will get over there and look it over. I am so sorry that you have this condition and thank you for sharing your experiences so the rest of us can understand how serious the risk is and take all the precautions that we can. I hope that you can find some treatment that can improve your condition and help you feel stronger.

Thanks for all the input..
Adam

What I mean is to avoid walking through vegetation higher than your socks without some kind of protection. I get ticks on me but find them before they bite. The deer ticks are very difficult to spot but you can often feel them if you pass your hand over them. It helps to know your body since a tick can easily be mistaken for a mole. Showering definitely will not remove ticks but that's a good time to check for them. First place to check are the areas not covered by clothing like arms, legs, and neck since that's how they get in. Then check places like armpits, the inside of the knee, anywhere there is a fold of skin as that is where they tend to bite. Many people who get lyme disease find the bullseye in these places after it is too late. Also run the tips of your fingers over your scalp because they like to bite under hair.

It's recommended that when working in areas that have ticks that you wear white socks and tuck your pants into them. That way you can spot them on your clothing before they get onto your person. I suppose like everything experience helps. I am extremely sensitive to poison ivy but rarely get it anymore even though I walk and work in areas filled with it. I avoid it because I know what it looks like and know not to brush up against it or walk though it, and if I do walk through I know to wash shoes and clothing afterwards. With ticks I know what if I brush up against a leaf or long grass, there's a chance one grabbed on. DEET is an effective repellent and you could consider using it on clothing only so that it doesn't come in contact with the skin if you are concerned about toxicity.

I only suggested vaccines for dogs since you were concerned about pets. There are lyme disease vaccines for dogs just like for rabies. They are probably not considered safe for people because we have longer life spans.

I would never get that vaccine. Too many people have gotten horrible arthritis from it. I'm surprised it wasn't taken off the market.
I just wish they would develop an accurate, reliable test for it. It's too devastating a disease, to not treat immediately. But the testing is so unreliable.
We live in the woods. We just have learned to do tick checks all the time. If we do find a tick on one of us, we keep close watch on that person......in case they develop flu-like symptoms soon afterwards.
I've heard that keeping guinea hens around keeps the tick population down. But your noise levels will definitely go up!

My husband hunts deer and has them processed to eat...I was wondering what is the risk,if any,of the deer having Lyme Disease and passing it through being ate? Do any of ya'll eat deer or hunted animals?

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that the deer tick is different from the larger dog tick. The deer tick is very small and easily missed. The larger ticks are much easier to spot and remove. If you are bitten by the larger tick, even if you don't find it for over 24 hours, you will not get infected. It is the smaller deer tick that if it digs in and stays there for 24 hours can infect you.

I say this so that people who find the large ticks on themselves will not immediately assume Lyme Disease. It pays to be vigilant but make sure you know the difference between the ticks.

The deer do not have Lyme disease. They merely carry the tick.

i know how to control tick. Guinefowl, they just eat them right up!

Adam, one thing to remember is that a garden that is hospitable to all forms of wildlife will actually probably end up with fewer mice, because it will also have snakes, and hawks and foxes, etc. that are mouse predators. Balance is the key, and Lyme has exploded because of the proliferation of deer, which are highly mobile and can carry the ticks far further than their mouse hosts.

Vigilance is about your best protection, and don't be afraid to get a course of antibiotics if you fear exposure to a deer tick. No one wants to abuse antibiotics, but the dangers of going untreated are far worse than an unnecessary Z-pak.

There are measures available for controlling deer ticks on mice - see the link below. This is a commercial version, but I understand that you can build your own system using pyrethrins or permethrins (I forget which and the difference is is important). And guinea fowl are great for rural areas, but alas, those of us in more sub/urban settings might get the neighbors "ticked" at the noise :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Tick management

Hi Jill,

Well, I have lived here for 25+ years and have only saw snakes in 2 of those years. Never have seen a fox or heard of any reported anywhere near our neighborhood.
Have seen hawks, as we are fairly close to a highway. We don't have deer in this area. We are pretty urban and not near any woods in any direction. Small 1/4 acre lots with most yards having grass and trees and barely any shrubs or perennials. Barely anything for an animal to hide behind...lol. Our yard is an exception. I have four yards that border mine and not one of those yards has a shrub in their whole back yard. Foundation plants around the front, grass in the back with silver maples in 3 yards, and one yard with spruces, a London plane tree, a pine, a weedy old ugly crabapple grass and poison ivy everywhere. Not much of a wildlife haven. I have seen possum and skunks, but hardly any of those this year either. I wish I could have some guinefowl but my neighbors would not be happy with that I am sure. :-)

I am checking for ticks. The photos of ticks that show how small a deer tick is though concern me. They are SO small, I don't know how you can see them very well. I also wear glasses and that makes it harder. I can see the larger ones and those seem to be the ones we have been getting.

No, we wouldn't hesitate to take antibiotics if there was an exposure.

Thanks for that link Jill.

Personally, I don't like the smell or feel of DEET products. An old-fashioned way to repell ticks is to dust your pant legs, socks, etc. with sulphur dust. You might have to seek out an organic supplier for sulphur dust. It smells but a little goes a long way. It used to be available in an open-weave cloth bag and you could just smack against your legs. If you can't find one, it shouldn't be too hard to find the right fabric and make a bag.