I've bought a couple of times from Musser and have been satisfied. I got arrowwood viburnum and gray dogwood. I ordered the 5 for $??? quantities, plus one nannyberry in a pot.

They came through beautifully and were quite a good size - over 2' tall. 2 of the gray dogwood even had flowers when they arrived and now have berries. I understand I might have to wait a few years before the viburnum flower and produce berries.

There's more I'd like to order through them also, but the pocketbook tells me I can't. Maybe next year.

I got my order from Mussers. They're quite small, but really, as I expected for the price. I never did get an email from them, but I got a snail mail and shortly thereafter, received my order. I was a little surprised by the gray dogwoods. I ordered 5 and received 9. 8 were very small, 1 a little bigger. I assumed I was supposed to put two in a hole with the exception of the one larger one. We'll see how they do. I have more I'd like to order, but I want to see how these do.
terryr

How small are they? Glad they finally arrived. I am going to order from them or ForestFarm probably next spring because I really want those elderberries and american moutain ash,I can't afford it right now. But I did buy a couple of other shrubs on sale this weekend at a local nursery a blue muffin to pollinate species arrowood and another blackhaw viburnum for same reason plus two small winterberries. My neighbor bought a native beautyberry bush It's beautiful I wonder if birds like the berries? Sarah

I would guess the gray dogwoods to be about 18 inches, the larger one is probably 2 ft. The Silky dogwoods are smaller, maybe a foot. The blackhaw viburnam (1) is about 3 ft., wild cherry trees (2) are probably the same, the american plum (5) are smaller, about 2 ft. The serviceberry is the same as the cherry, 3 ft. The viburnam, serviceberry and the cherry trees I bought in the pot. The others are bare root. There was more I wanted to order, but I really wanted to make sure what I got is going to grow. They don't have a guarantee, except if something is wrong with them when they're delivered. I want some winterberries, but I don't want to buy the 5 they suggest. I'd rather pay more and get them locally because I really only want 2 of them. I'm really hoping they grow really, really fast, I'm the impatient type! I'm not sure on the beautyberry. It seems I've heard the birds like them...don't quote me though! Let me know if you order from ForestFarm how those plants are.
Terry

Terry, I broke down and ordered a couple of plants from them yesterday it was cheaper than I thought. I ordered 2 viburnum trilobin(cranberrybush) and an american mountain ash. I don't think I ordered any elderberry because the minimum was 5 and I don't have the room. I am embarrassed to say I misplaced the order so I am not sure exactly what I ordered but it was less than 30 dollars. I will let you know when I get the plants. In September I went to the biennial plant sale at scotts arboretum in Swathmore Pa. and one of the plant experts there said his son had a nursery or farm of native plants in Tennessee and I can't remember the name because that might be a place where you could get your winterberry plants. In general they are labeled male or female and what plants they are compatible with. Thanks for the info and good luck with your new plants. Sarah

Sara, that's why I ordered all that I did! Cheap! I've got almost an acre here and we thinned out some trees here and I want to add more. That is the exact reason I didn't order the winterberries. They say they grow them from seed and don't know the males from the females. My luck I'd get 5 females or 5 males! I was also thinking on the elderberry you could order one that was container grown. If I can't get one or two, I'll do the same and get them elsewhere. Don't be embarrassed by misplacing your order..lol...I did the same thing. And when they came, I couldn't remember how tall the trees got, my computer was in the shop...and we planted them with me thinking cherry was bigger than plum...I hope so....then it dawned on me..I've got the catalog. Duh!! Looked it up and yep, the cherry is bigger, I just didn't think THAT big! LOL....I gave them room, so I'm not worried. I also know that there is some native nursery down here, but it was all bookmarked...and it was my hard drive that went out. I lost it all. I haven't taken the time yet to search and figure out the names......lol! If you'd like to email me, please feel free to do so. Terry

Green leaf buds on all the elderberries. The Red elderberries I got from the comservation nursery last year have the most green out so far with new green leaves unraveling. I can see bloom clusters coming along when I look carefully!!!!!

Hi Rita,
I thought mine weren't making berries, but they were getting eaten when they're just little green buds.

Rita: I ordered a few things from the NH Nursery on your recommendation. You seemed to have such good luck with them this year. I hope this year's batch are as good. I live so close that I can go and pick them up. They should be here in a month. I ordered the dogwood package, some viburnums, bayberry and elderberries. I can hardly wait to plant them. This was a good thread as I now know that the elderberries won't bloom right away.

The gosh darn S. nigra Elderberries STILL have no berries because neither the 'Black Beauty' nor the 'Grincho Purple' flowered this spring.

The Red Elderberries, on the other hand, have nice green berries coming along even though some are still flowering.

The others I just put in and are to small to do anything but grow leaves. Still, I am very frustrated with the S. nigra's.

Species elderberries need no pollinator. They are dioecious. Neither do arrowwood viburnum--I have one plant and get abundant berries.

Rita, maybe they aren't berrying because they aren't flowering yet? I just thought that you could increase the crop by adding other shrubs of the same species from different genes. It was my understanding that they would berry either way.

They do vonyon. Sarah

I would just go for Sambucus nigra, which will grow anywhere and don't need cross pollination. You can cut it back really hard if it gets too big and it will still grow.

You can use the flowers to make elderflower "champagne" and the berries to make elderberry wine.

I ordered a couple of what Cold Stream calls Black Elderberry (I'm assuming that is S. nigra?) I also order some Common Elderberry (s. Canadensis) from NH Nursery. I plant on planting them in the same general area. Does anyone know if they will cross-pollinate each other? None have much more than a few leaves coming from the crown at the moment.

I have 4 small elderberry bushes all native to eastern North America 2 canadense and two racemosa. I think that black elderberry is european. None have flowers on them but all four have leafed out beautifully. I bought one at Musser forest and the rest at a native plant nursery last month called redbud. I am a little sorry I did though because I went to Bowman's native plant sale on friday and their elderberries where enormous and the flowers were in bloom. Sarah

Sambucus nigra is native in Britain. It doesn't need cross pollination- the bees do that themselves and it doesn't matter if you only have one bush.

My S. nigra elderberries are growing quite well this year. Actually growing UP instead of out like they did all last year.

The berries on my red ones have long since dissapeared so something ate them. My Oriental Elderberries are just blooming now and I am so surprised that they bloom this late.

As for my Blue Elderberries, I only have one plant left of the original three as the other two died. The third is barely growing so I don't know whats going on there.

How wide does the 'Sutherland Gold' elderberry get? It does get 12' tall, if I understand correctly.

Do the leaves on it ever get looking ratty? Would you put it in a bed next to the front door, or would you choose the plain green Sambucus racemosa instead? Or neither?

How does it look with the yellow leaves and red berries at the same time? I've never seen a picture of that.

Thanks,
Sharon

From what I understand the Sutherland Gold should get about 12' wide as well as 12' tall, at least in my area. I have just purchased one for planting near my front door so if anyone advises otherwise please let me know ASAP. I am a little concerned because when I went to purchase it the nursery had whacked it pretty severly (they gave me a great deal) & the few remaining leaves had black on them. Does anyone know whether this is a common problem, either sunburn or fungus or something? The good news is I've had it still in the container for a couple of weeks and it seems to be coming back out just fine. The new foliage is beautiful.

We will see what flowers this spring. Hopefully more than did last year.

I am thinking of getting Elderberry Black Sambucus. Did I read correctly that I don't need a pollinator? Hoping it would also be a nice-looking plant for the front yard??

What a great thread! I love elderberries, have grown several varieties over the years. My experience with the Sambucus nigras were they grew very fast - i had to cut them to the ground every few years. They had a fair amount of fruit the birds liked.

I also grew the canadensis Adams and Johns varieties - and if you are after berries, these set them in copious quantities, and larger fruits.

I've lusted in my heart after red elderberries - but had poor luck with them previously. I'm trying again this year, ordered some from New Hamphsire conservation. I've got a Sutherland golden elder, but not gotten any fruits on it. That would be too good to be true to have the pretty foliage plus a big crop of red fruit!

You should get fruits on your Sutherland Gold after your red elderberries flower as they should pollinate each other. I have the red from NH State Nursery and was very surprised at how small the berries are.

I want to say that my S. nigra elderberies have FINIALLY set some berries this year. They did not have too many flower clusters this spring but did have some. I was thinking it was going to be a waste of time and that they would not set fruit but there is some. Still, if the birds really needed these as a food source, they would starve to death waiting!

I planted a bunch of elderberries last year. I got the s. canadensis from NH Nursery and some others from Cold Stream. They came as little crowns on some roots last year and are about 4-5 feet tall this year and loaded with flowers.

I am growing 2 Elderberry bushes from cuttings provided by a friend in South Florida. I think they are the species because she loved native plants and would hardly grow anything that wasn't native. They grew over 6 feet high the first year and bloomed beautifully but I didn't see any berries. This year they have bloomed again beautifully and I have seen some green berries (but nothing like the huge clusters of berries I remember from back home) but it seems like there is either very incomplete pollination or else the birds are eating them immediately while they are still green. There are oodles of bees and butterflies to pollenate so I figure it must be the birds jumping the gun on the berries. I have lots of other berry producing bushes coming on but nothing much producing fruit in quantity except bird peppers and the Fiddlewood tree at the moment.

Lucky me. I moved into a rural home 20 years ago, abundant with elderberries. I've never even thought about what kind they were, since they always provided me with lots of fruits .For years I made elderberry wine, and became quite famous for it. It's really hard work, though, and after one year of a so-so wine, I stopped.

I have since let the cedar waxwings enjoy the fruits. They are so wonderful, and I love their sweet-sweet song. Sometimes they will pick a berry and pass it on to another friend, beak to beak.

This year looks like another good harvest. I have bushes of all ages - lots of new babies that won't bear fruit until who knows when. This is a really interesting thread. I've always just taken elderberries for granted.

I am growing 2 Elderberry bushes from cuttings provided by a friend in South Florida. I think they are the species because she loved native plants and would hardly grow anything that wasn't native. They grew over 6 feet high the first year and bloomed beautifully but I didn't see any berries. This year they have bloomed again beautifully and I have seen some green berries (but nothing like the huge clusters of berries I remember from back home) but it seems like there is either very incomplete pollination or else the birds are eating them immediately while they are still green. There are oodles of bees and butterflies to pollenate so I figure it must be the birds jumping the gun on the berries. I have lots of other berry producing bushes coming on but nothing much producing fruit in quantity except bird peppers and the Fiddlewood tree at the moment.

Apart from the elderberries in my yard, there are countless elderberry bushes in full flower at roadsides around here. The years I made elderberry wine I harvested lots of roadside berries. They're all wild ones - sambucus canadensis.

I find that elderberries, like most other fruiting shrubs, don't bloom the first year they're planted. The second year they bloom but set very few fruits. After that, they begin to fruit abundantly. For example, this year my established elderberries (all S. canadensis) are so full of huge clusters of fruit that the branches are bent. Two year-old plants that bloomed nicely for the first time, however, have no fruit.

How much sun do elderberries need? I dug up the one I had in TN and brought it to IL. I've got it planted in a somewhat shaddy area, maybe a couple hours a day.

Terry

Thanks Elaine, I appreciate your knowledge of Elderberries. I have followed your repeated posts all through this thread. I now have hope that mine will begin to bear fruit heavily next year. :-)

Anyone with Black lace, Guincho Purpleor, or Black beauty elder want to trade? I have Nova and York but I'm looking for a 'black' veriety for an ornamental. Thanks

My red elderberries are going to bloom heavily this year. I can see all the flower clusters coming. I can't see anything going on with the Black elderberries yet.

My scarlet eldeberries are loaded with blooms as well. Hopefully we won't get a heavy frost when they are setting fruit.

I lost one black beauty elder over the winter - surprised, but it was probably already stressed by a hot, dry summer.

I THINK I have s. canadensis... I bought it at the rare plant sale of a renowned arboretum. I'v had it for at least 5 years now. It flowers beautifully, but alas, no berries. It has spread or suckered up around it and I have let them grow. There is a lot of winter dieback at the last 6" or so each year. It's planted in a spot thats pretty wet in springtime, but I thought they're supposed to thrive in wet spots? The flowers buds are pearl-like and blossoms are white and very sweet smelling. What do you think folks? Maybe NOT s. canadensis?

Oh boy, another old saga about my yard.

Late this summer I dug up all the black elderberry shrubs. There were five or six of them. They wanted to grow really big but not once had they ever made berries. Enough is enough. I gave them years to shape up but no dice. They are history.

I am now making a daylily garden were the black elderberry used to be. I don't feel bad. This yard is just loaded with berry producing shrubs for the birds.

I have lost most of the red elderberry in that they die off. So I had only one left last year. I did buy another young red elderberry and plant it as I would like to keep these in my yard.

Im stumped as to why your black elderberries did not fruit. That must have been a job to dig those out - they have tough, stringy roots. Any of the American elders (sambucus canadensis) I've ever grown, from a nursery or those that pop up on their own, flower and fruit prolifically. The cultivars sold for fruiting, like Nova and York, produce huge clusters of berries.

The red eldeberries - ive ordered those from several sources and had them die off. But the ones i planted from Musser Forests grew profusely and fruited great. Maybe the source is genetically not as hardy, could be different (s. pubens vs s. racemosa, etc), i don't know. They do grow and bloom early and are susceptible to frost.

Well, I should have two red elderberries this spring, one of my originals and the new one. I like the red elderberry so if one dies off, I will replace them. I tried blue elderberry once too but I planted in the fall and they never made it thru the winter.

I never did plant the american elderberry although that is what I set out to get years ago when I wind up with the black elderberry instead.

i live in the Beaumont area in Texas. We have elderberries coming out our ears how do i propagate them and when please? I would like to plant them in my yard. Are there any elderberry varieties that are poisonous?

maria, you need to start your own thread. Go to the Gardening for Wildlife page and click on 'post a message' or just scroll all the way to the bottom. There you can enter in your topic, you have 'propagating elderberry' above, and put the message you have above or start anew. This thread was started in '03, post above yours was in '08. Only reason I clicked on this thread was because I thought Rita might be back!

I bought a home in the spring which had not been cared for in quite some time, so I have had an interesting summer seeing the plants show up and trying to identify them. I have a shrub that appears to be quite old from the size of it's base, but it was cut to the ground. Later in the spring it came to life but no one could identify it...I thought it was a type of peach tree from the leaf shape. In researching it today, it appears to be an elderberry bush with 7 perfectly formed leaves on each 'twig.' It is still bright green, but it has no berries whatsoever and I don't recall it flowering in the spring. Are some elderberries purely ornamental? If it should fruit in future years, are all elderberries safe? I live in a subdivision in a somewhat rural setting in TN.

tnladyk67.....I would suggest you start your own post. That way more people will see it. Include pictures if you can. Hope that helps :)

I put in Johns Elderberry, Sambucus Canadensis,.. make sure they get allot of sun. Birds left them alone since I got tons of ohter berries ripening earlier. These I planted for myself anyway and birds know this lol. Reds are easier to grow and hardier but not not very good for eating since seeds are toxic.

i have 5 s. canadensis of bob gordon and wylewood cultivars and 3 s. nigra black lace and black beauty cultivars. i put in the s. canadensis 2 yrs ago and the s. nigra last year. this year my s. canadensis has huge flower cymes but as the flowers fall there are only a few green berries forming. also i haven't seen any bees on them either but my raspberries 40ft. away are full of bumble bees. do bumble bees pollinate elderberry? I've seen them in my blueberries and currants before. maybe i have to wait till next year for a big crop. any ideas? for 2 years growth these elderberry bushes are huge! nearly 7ft. tall and the cymes are 12 to 14in. across! they are in poor rocky clay soil only amended with a handful or so of worm castings and some peat! unreal how vigorous they are!

I have lots of wild elderberry bushes around, but most of the time the birds eat the green berries before they even think about ripening. Is it possible that what you think is non-pollination, is in fact the birds eating very young berries?

i haven't noticed birds in them. since i posted last i took pollination into my own hands by lightly rubbing 2 cymes togather. since then all my cymes are full of green berries! night and day from the ones that i left to nature to pollinate. my heritage raspberries still have a lot of blossoms and are full of bumble bees. don't know why they don't go to the elderberries too. they're right next to each other. its like they don't recognize their flowers or something. not even mason bees or yellow jackets. there aren't any native elderberries around here that i know of. good to know i can do the job myself if need be.

I have one (actually it's always trying to spread out a bit but I remove the invading parts) that came up years ago in my yard. I dug a couple of stems from that to move down by the dry creek, where it eventually became a whole spreading grove with huge tall blooming plants. So invasive, although I don't know species. Last couple of years the yard one had some berries. Most dropped while still green...I probably don't water it enough and it's normally a dry climate. Don't know if the dry creek grove had berries or not.

yes they do like to spread! my 5 have already filled into a hedge in 2 years! we get a lot of rain in summer so i rarely water but since they set fruit I've been watering 2xs a week . if they stay i should have a lot of berries in a few weeks!