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Questions about whitetail deer fawns
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Posted by chemocurl zone 5/6 S IND (My Page) on Fri, Jun 17, 05 at 23:03
| I just had a terrible ordeal in the woods with my 3 (big) dogs and a small fawn. One of the dogs found a small fawn and started running it and the other 2 soon gave chase. I then gave chase, screaming and hollering all the while,after my dogs. Through the briars and brambles we all ran, zig zagging through the woods with the fawn crying like a baby lamb. One dog finally got it down, and then I got the dog down and somehow the fawn got away. The other dogs stopped where I was on the ground, and we were all panting and catching our breath...for what seemed like a long time. I fashioned a leash out of a shoe string, and started the long walk home with the youngest dog by my side. The other 2 stayed close as well, and we made it home with no more excitement.
Last year the dogs found a small fawn, only the outcome was terrible. It ended up with a broken neck, and I ended up carrying it home to have it put out of its' misery. It died in my arms about half way home.
So my question is this...when are fawns born here in southern Indiana?
When would it be safe to take my dogs for a walk without having this ever happen again. When are they big enough to be traveling with their mother...and would she try and protect them, or run off, leaving the fawn to fend for itself?
Will the mother be able to find her fawn that ran from the spot where she left it? Or will it starve? How often do they nurse?
I'm so stressed.
Before this all happened I found 2 of the dogs digging in 2 holes that were close together. They both smelled of skunk...so did I by the time I got home.
Sue...who is hoping the mother found her fawn. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Questions about whitetail deer fawns
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- Posted by ccox z8 (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 18, 05 at 18:55
Good question! We quit walking our dogs off leash around here in early May (Texas). I would imagine your fawn was born in the last week or two. It's amazing the doe didn't come out of the bushes in her fawn's defense, but maybe she could see she was outnumbered. The does keep the fawns hidden for a month before you see them out wandering with momma. She comes back to nurse several times a day. I have faith that mom and baby will reunite. That crying that he did will be his way of finding her later on. He'll call out and she'll be able to find him.
Hopefully, others with good intentions will open this thread and unnecessary "rescues" won't take place. Folks often find these tiny babies, all alone, and think something has happened to mom. Often, you can just reach down and pick them up. I'm attaching a website that has information on fawns.
I'm sorry you had such a scary day. I'm glad this year didn't turn out like last year. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Quick note about fawn rescue
RE: Questions about whitetail deer fawns
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| I don't usually participate in this sort of discussion, but as a dog owner I feel I must contribute. I strongly urge you to never, never, never walk your dogs off leash until you have trained them to such an extent that they will always ALWAYS respond to your call. I know this is difficult, but it is essential both for wildlife and for your dogs. One of my dogs spent three years without off leash priveledges until we felt we could trust her - and she is still on probation! One instance of not responding and she will be back on the leash. There are critters other than fawns around all year round that your dogs can chase and kill (or frighten literally to death). Just because it has not happened yet, doesn't mean it won't. If the threat to wildlife is not enough, what about the threat to the dogs? What if they chase a porcupine? Or a raccoon (which can cause serious harm to even a large dog) Or a moose calf or bear baby and mom comes to defend it? (I'm sure you don't have moose, I don't know about bear, but the point is still the same). What if the dogs had chased the fawn across a road and been hit by a car? Unfortunately, your dogs have now gained the strongest positive reinforcement they could - they were able to indulge themselves in the joy of the chase with no repercussions. I am NOT suggesting punishing your dog - I am not a fan of negative reinforcement and besides, you cannot provide a punishment strong enough to overcome the positive joy of the chase. You must teach your dogs that coming to you when you call is the strongest reinforcement they can ever receive. Please teach them. OK, down off my soap box now. |
RE: Questions about whitetail deer fawns
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| Thank you both...it is reassuring to know that the doe found her baby. I believe it may have been her that ran up on us, earlier on our walk when we were headed in a different direction. The one dog with me then, did not give chase. She is elderly and I don't expect to have her very much longer. Yes, it is a shame that I have 3 dogs and have not trained them any better than I have. I am thankful they do not jump on anyone, or their vehicles. They also have manners around a picnic table. The one dog (4 year old 'pup') who was walked home on the leash may have known why...but I doubt it. I am overwelmed at teaching 3 old dogs a new trick...of responding when called. I ask them if they want to "go for a walk?" hmm....go for a walk? and they start hopping around real happily. I think there will be no walks other than up close around the woods near the house (no fawns there) until Late July. Then there is a dead end road we frequent, and they do not stray as far from me. No bear or porcupine here, but there is racoon. Once the 3 backed a racoon in to a thicket...that coon made sounds like something out of a horror movie. I finally got ahold of the oldest (elderly) dog and started home with her in tow. The other 2 soon gave up and came along too, having given up on the coon. That was another terrible experience. We've had so many wonderful uneventful walks, that I cannot imagine giving that up. I really don't know who enjoys them more more...the dogs or me. The strange part is that they could cross the field and go for a walk anytime on their own, but they don't. Until I have 3 well trained dogs I just won't walk them anywhere, anytime that could endanger a fawn. I'll always have 3 leashes with me...been there, done that, and it sure isn't much fun for me. I will start working with the 'pup' as she is the one who strays the farthest and is such a free spirit. She is the 'omega' dog....but sure is spirited. A neighbor suggested using a shock collar to train them, but I'm not sure I want to do that. He trained his hunting dogs with one. They say it does not hurt them, but merely get's their attention. What does anyone think of using one as an aid in training. Sue |
RE: Questions about whitetail deer fawns
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| Hi Sue, I can't even imagine walking three dogs on leash - two are hard enough! As I said, one of ours has been a problem off leash. One time she ran two full miles without once even looking at us - that's when we realized we had to do *something* to control her. We went to a professional trainer for help. In my experience (which is limited), you may have to choose between two very different types of training. The trainers that are firm believers in positive reinforcement will not use shock collars or any other negative control. The other type uses more controlling methods such as a shock collar. Also, in my limited experience, the majority of the hunters have trained with shock collars. It's up to you which approach you wish to take. We did use a shock collar for a short period of time (BTW, most people prefer to call them electronic collars or e-collars because it sounds better). If you buy a high quality collar, it is controllable so that the shock can be set very low and the dog barely feels it. Our trainer was very careful to set it so all the dog did was blink her eyes. If you go this route, just be sure you have a good trainer and don't be afraid to walk away if the trainer does something you aren't comfortable with. Good luck, I can sympathesize totally. I guess this isn't about "wildlife gardening" anymore, but neither is the "cats" thread so hopefully no one will mind too much :) Ann |
RE: Questions about whitetail deer fawns
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| Sue - good on you for giving chase and not just 'hoping the fawn will get away'. It's hard to have dogs that won't listen when it matters most. I have two dogs who love walk in our wood with us. One of which is also a free spirit (hyper) dog that can get stuck on what he's doing and tuning all else out. Therefore it was very important to teach him to return to me and sit immediately on command, for his safety as well as other reasons mentioned above. I find a high pitched whistle works best in my case. It cuts through the 'fog' of excitement and elicits a quick response. I use a bosons whistle (the skinny ones sailors use). With constant practice and positive reward it will become second nature to react to the sound and save you a lot of stress. You can even teach different codes for different commands like herders do. p.s. It may a bit off subject, but one way to reinforce the fact that YOU are the alpha (or should be) is to require the dog to obey a command before being fed. Mine have to go to their feeding stations and sit until released to eat. Good luck and lots of patience to you! |
RE: Questions about whitetail deer fawns
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Don't ever underestimate a doe's drive to protect her fawns, either. A deer that would naturally flee from an approaching dog can and will stomp the daylights out of one if she thinks they are a threat to her young. And you should take precautions yourself, if this fawn is not that far from your living spaces. Mom won't leave it, and until the fawn has gotten enough strength to follow her to a safer location she will stay right there close.
During the fawning season and during the rut you just never know what deer will do. While attacks are really an oddball thing and not anything to raise a panic over, you should still try to be aware of what the animals are doing and give them their space.
In this area, the fawns start dropping right about the time haymaking and wheat cutting commences, and everyone is worried about hitting them with their mowing machines. |
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