Elaine, I said it before and I'm gonna say it again....please get a digital camera and post some pictures so we can see what you see!!

I started from scratch, again...and am having a tough time of keeping everything alive. We finally got some much needed rain today, but I know it wasn't enough. We've had a very dry spring and summer. Every thing is new (well a few things were here that I could care less about), and I'm having to water every other day. The heat and lack of water is making every thing wilt!

I really want some ironweed. How much moisture does it take?

Today I watched a yellow swallowtail nectaring on a bright purple ironweed blossom, the whole thing dancing seven feet off the ground, while a cloud of tiny skippers soared and swooped all around. Ironweed is the butterfly magnet right now (much of my liatris has been crowded out).

Ironweed is said to prefer moist situations, but it certainly can take normal garden soil. We're having a dry spring and summer too, and some of my ironweed is in a bed I never water, while some is in a bed that I do water during severe drought. Both are fine.

Thanks Elaine...now to just find some...

Prairie Nursery

Prairie Nursery? And that is where? Mail order? More details please. I've checked online at places near me, but no one has them. I'm getting kinda disgusted at the lack of native plants offered by the locals. Is it because I seem to be the only one in the county that wants natives? No demand?
Another question...(I love asking you questions!)...I believe I "inherited" at this house, a purple loosestrife. I can't find a good site that has an up close picture. Do you know of one?

I agree with Terryr. I would love to see your property. Reading your descriptions makes me want to come there!

I am not a picture person. I prefer words. My husband takes pictures and just got a digital camera but hasn't worked out posting them yet.

Prairie Nursery is www.prairienursery.com. Terrific place, natives only, great service, great plants.

Nurseries don't sell natives because there's more money in named, patented hybrids and cultivars than in pure species. Also because people want exotic and showy plants and wouldn't recognize a native ecosystem if it hit them with a stick. And wouldn't understand it even then. Businesses sell what people want, and since most people don't care about native, most nurseries don't sell them.

If you think you've got purple loosestrife you probably do. It's everywhere, and it's in full bloom now. The only native that's at all similar is liatris, and only from a distance. And liatris blooms from the top down, whereas almost any other plant with flowers in spikes blooms from the bottom up.

Words can just help the imagination so far. For me, anyway, pictures help to put what I've got in my head into reality. Make sense? I'm pretty good with that "eye" in my head, but most times it turns out even cooler than I even imagined. That's why I'd just love to see what you've done. Hopefully your husband will post some pictures? I'm not sure people don't care about natives, I'd rather say they're just uninformed. If a nursery isn't selling them, how would they know? People I know are exactly as you say with wanting the showy. Native plants are 100x's more showy in my mind. But if they can't see anything that's native, how would they know? I know better than to think if that just because I'm thinking of a paticular plant and I research it, that the next 99 out of 100 don't. I'm going to check some more on the purple loosestrife, not sure where because isn't it banned from sale? The bees sure like it, it's an attractive plant, but it won't stay if it is indeed the loosestrife.
Thanks for the URL to Praire Nursery. I'm going to go check them out.

Terry

Another source of native plants and native plant seeds is Praire Moon Nursery, Winona, Minnesota. They have a web-site, and their annual catalog is very impressive, with wonderful photos.

Good year for mockingbirds for me. They're working on their third nest in my shrub row. They seem friendly enough until the babies are ready to fledge, then the mama bird goes into attack mode. They dive bomb me from behind my head then let out a loud squawk right beside my ear. Absolutely one of my favorite birds so I'll forgive them for scaring the cr@p out of me. I don't have as many butterflies as last year and haven't found ANY caterpillars. I found several caterpillars last year and have even more host plants this year, mostly along my shrubrow which the mockingbirds have claimed. As much as I love the mockingbirds, I wonder if they are keeping my caterpillars cleaned out.

The small blue butterflies (I think they're spring azures) are back. A few weeks back my NJ tea, which is one of their food sources, was very thoroughly chewed, and today I just saw an adult. In spring I see them around the red osier dogwood, another of their favorites. I am proud to supply so many of their favorite food plants in my small space!

Yesterday I saw a swallowtail checking out a black cherry tree--I assume looking for a place to lay eggs.

Bird activity has shifted. Chokecherries are finally finished, and elderberries are starting. Also, they're checking out the grey dogwood, because the berries are starting to turn pale, on their way to ripe white. The stems have been bright red for a couple of weeks, and that's when the birds start checking them out.

I don't usually see too many butterflies flitting around...lol...trying to remedy that! I saw a monarch butterfly today. As I was watching that (taking a break from digging up 2 burning bushs), sitting on the back steps, I noticed a family in the small park caddy corner from me. It was put in a few yrs ago by the master gardeners in this area...joepye weed is about the only native thing I see in there...but I digress. The woman remarks about the butterflies all over the butterfly bush..and I thought of you. Of you saying to plant milkweed, asters, anything native and the butterflies would ignore the butterfly bush. Just wanted you to know that I DO listen to what you say! I'm sure I'm not the only...lol...

Terry

BTW, how much does a chokecherry sucker? Meaning how many feet by how many feet? I've read the posts regarding them, but I'm afraid they might sucker to much for a 64 x 134 yard. They sound really nice!

I find that monarchs will invariably ignore a butterfly bush to nectar on liatris. Ditto swallowtails and ironweed. Yes, I do have two butterfly bushes that I put in before I knew better (the name got me, as it has so many others). I deadhead ruthlessly.

I have seen just a couple of monarchs this year after seeing none last year. I used to have them by the dozen, in July and then again in early fall. I'm hoping that the population is growing after the devastating freeze a coupld of years ago. Plant milkweed, everyone. Your plant may be the one that saves a small population.

Terryr, throw some milkweed seeds into those alien flower beds this fall. Throw them into the back of the beds, where with luck they'll grow unweeded until they become hard to remove. I sometimes scatter seeds of natives that should be present in particular habitats in my walks through the local parks. It's the opposite of digging plants up, and I frankly think it's highly moral.

lol...that's the one thing I don't think they do too much of, weed. I wondered about putting some seeds in there, but wasn't sure. I think I will now....

It was cool to see the monarch in my yard..not sure what he was doing there....but he was there none the less. Come fall I need to find some good plants for butterflies.

The chokecherry? How big? How much suckering?

Terry

Chokecherry is an understory tree that specializes in suckering. One plant forms a small thicket. I made the mistake of putting one at the back of a flower bed. It would work as part of a tree island or a woodland planting better than in a hedgerow or as a foundation plant.

Darn...I didn't want it as either, just something to plant under/beside an ash tree, but I'm not sure with all the suckering. When you say a small thicket, how small? 15 x 10? bigger? Also, how tall?

Thanks Elaine,

Terry

Height maybe up to 25 feet maximum. Hard to say how big a thicket, because I've got other trees around them and one side is lawn which is mowed. Also, size would depend on how many years you're talking about.

Main idea--if you want a shrub that stays where you plant it, don't plant a chokecherry. Black cherry, which is very similar, is a single-trunk canopy tree.

White ash is the canopy in my miniwoodland. Unfortunately, I planted only one, so it will never produce seeds. But it's a fast grower and provides dappled shade so the understory did well. Right near the tree there's V. lentago, native hazelnut, chokeberry, and native bittersweet. All have done very well.

Get yourself a good shrub book. There are lots of native choices.

I've got a shrub book. I just unpacked it today and haven't had time to look yet. My biggest problem is there's only about 20 ft. from the lot line to my house. The ash is on that side, so I need to find something that would do not only good in that area, but also won't block off the flow from back to front. The neighbor has a few maples and I believe it's a nut tree. I haven't identified it yet. I've got lots of little maples and whatever the other one is growing everywhere. I read that with the black cherry it would do the same. Dispersed by the birds. I know that with the neighbors trees, I don't notice them in my other shrubs until they're getting some size on them and then they're not that easy to remove. So, I dunno. I'm in no big hurry to plant anything just yet, so I'll do some more research.

Terry

BTW..I had a green ash at our other house. The neighbor suddenly had one in his back yard and since he needed trees, he let it grow. Perhaps yours will do the same?

My white ash will not make babies because ash are monoecious. In other words, each tree is a single sex. You need two to produce seeds. The closest white ash that I'm aware of is over a half mile away. So I don't expect seeds anytime soon.

More butterflies: a lot of fritillaries this year--not great spangled but one of those beautiful gold and orange speckled species keeps appearing. Medium sized. I'm not good at identifying like species. Little skippers in clouds--the third flight this year, I think. Still many spring azures. Occasional monarchs, after a two-year absence.

A few weeks ago there was literally a young bunny in every single flower bed, but now many of them are gone. I hope they've dispersed, because if they all hang around they'll eat the new shrubs this winter--unless we're lucky and a hawk hangs around for a while, as one did last winter. It reduced the rabbit population considerably, and my shrubs did well last year.

The birds have just about finished the elderberries and are half-way through the grey dogwood. The bushes are full of the red stems of eaten berries, plus pale green unripe berries. I don't actually know what a ripe berry looks like, because they're always eaten at the moment of ripeness. You can't go near that side of the house without disturbing several catbirds and robins. The catbirds scream lustily at us before taking off. They also ate every berry off an arrowwood viburnum that grows among the grey dogwood, and they're polishing off a black chokeberry in the same shrub row. Other chokeberries always remain untouched, while this one is always stripped clean. Oh--and the goldfinches have started on the almost-ripe sunflower seeds (H. mollis--downy sunflower). And there's some pokeberry that I let stay in various parts of the yard, and every berry disappears as soon as it ripens on those too. And the V. trilobum berries are at their most gorgeous, but most birds ignore them until spring. Lots of activity.

Elaine: Sounds great. I too would love to see some pics some day. I know you said you are not the photographer, but please get your husband out there and posting some pics for us. It will probably be like reading a really good book and then seeing the movie though. Your writing is so descriptive, I have a great picture in my mind already and maybe a picture would destroy that.

Elaine, I ordered and received ironweed and milkweed and liatris and many many more.... Next year I'll have to collect seeds and take them to the park with me. 1 thing though...I learned they have cameras in the park because of some vandalism....if I get arrested, you'll come bail me out, right? :)

Terry

Terryr - it's great you've got a good start on native plantings, and it's interesting that you'll be taking seeds to the park, cause that's where I get seeds. Our park is mostly a huge soccer field, but one side is edged by a fallow field which is mowed once a year. That fencerow is rife with ironweed, goldenrod, baptisia, asters, milkweeds, wood sage, passion vine, et al, and a number of native trees. It's amazing what can thrive in a 3-foot margin, out of reach of the machinery.

But, more than anything, I enjoy watching the activity in the berry bushes & trees. Just outside our front door is an Indian cherry (Rhamnus caroliniana) which is just ripening, and very busy. This is an underused small tree, and should be used more. It's indigenous to the Eastern US; has glossy green leaves (deciduous) and is loaded with red - turning to blue-black - berries right now. Attains about a 30' height, and naturally occurs as an understory tree. And, very nice form. (commercial's over)

Carol

I'm still seeing monarchs--several each day. I assume they're nectaring (asters, goldenrod, and boltonia still going strong) during their migration. It's wonderful to see them again, after seeing literally none last year. Also, the tiny skippers that I see throughout the warm months are still abundant. It's been warm so far.

Finally no more little skippers. There were still clouds of them even a couple of weeks ago--it's been very warm. Only asters (numerous species) and a shade-loving goldenrod are still in bloom. I had been noting the occasional monarch--presumably migrating--right up to this past weekend, when the rains finally came. Saw them on a recent trip to upstate NY too. Predominant bird right now is bluejay--never saw so many in my yard before. Hope they don't chase away the cardinals, chickadees, titmice, and other normal winter residents. Tons of berries and fruits of all descriptions, as well as seeds, all over the place--crabapples, acorns, dogwood berries, late raspberries, pokeweed berries, coneflower and rudbeckia seeds, grass seed, native bittersweet. There's so much food around that I've been noticing dogwood berries remaining on trees or falling to the ground all over the neighborhood--unheard of. Lots of evidence that chipmunks are using our brush pile--acorn shells all around, our dog is intensely interested in sniffing there. Rabbits not as evident as earlier in the season. I hope at least some became meals for hawks, because when their numbers increase too much my young shrubs can't get through the winter.

The color on the poison ivy is particularly gorgeous right now (I don't have any, although I wouldn't remove it if it popped up in an out-of-the way corner). I bet some people admire it but have no idea what it is (what it is is one of the best wildlife food plants that exist). I'd much rather see poison ivy climbing a tree than English ivy (yes, I know many of you will vigorously object to those last couple of sentences). Also my spicebush is a lovely yellow. This is the first year that rabbits didn't eat it down to the ground over the winter, and it looks lovely, planted in a small island with coralberry, ninebark, ferns, and a dogwood that's turning only a muddy brown-red this year. The virginia creeper's color isn't particularly nice this year, and most trees even upstate just looked kind of grey, after a very hot and dry season. The trees and shrubs in my miniwoodland are all still green. A good fall for fruit but a poor one for color.

Still seeing monarchs up here in the northern Adirondacks. Thought for sure they would have had the sense to scoot once first frost came.

It's finally gotten chilly in the past couple of days, but last week, while it was still warm, I watched monarchs arrive one after another, hover and then feed on the last remaining NE asters, then leave. They all arrived and left in the same direction. Astonishing how they find those few remaining flowers. There are not a lot of native asters around here except for white woodland types, and although mine are still blooming, the monarchs don't seem to go for them.