There have been wolves spotted agin in Wisconsin. Yay!! (I just don't care to come face to face with one, but I'll stay in the suburbs. ;-)

Vonyon it is very important and I am outraged how they can still allow the trapping of bobcats in Pennsylvania. I guess it goes to show who has the power (hunters) and who doesn't. I get the NJN public television station and they were talking about how they manage bears over there But what's really sad is that when they allowed the hunt last year it was mostly Pennsylvanians that went over there to hunt poor new jersey's bears (like they can't get enough here) The hunters here in Pennsylvania even wanted to outlaw the birth control pill to deer because they wouldn't be able to get a rack of antlers now if they want a rack of antlers from suburban Philadelphia because there are fewer deer in the woods of Pennsylvania I say they should come and get all the deer they want and take them back to their (hunters) part of Pennsylvania so they don't beg for hand outs at wawa(the local 24 hour convenience store) I hope I am making sense it's been a long day. Sarah

Just goes to show how you can never predict the effects of removing a single species. Just look at the cascade of effects that no one would have imagined!

You just can't talk to those in favor of managing bears. I'm on a state committee for allocating money from duck stamp sales for land conservation, and most of the other members are hunters. Declaring myself against bear hunting is tantamount to supporting al quida. On the other side of the issue is the fact that hunters through their fees have done more to preserve habitat than probably any other group. Sometimes I wonder how we all got on different sides of the political divide, since we really have most things in common. Probably the alarmist NRA is to blame.

And what are we ever to do about the deer problem in suburbanized areas? They have cleaned out the understory of bushes, young trees, and wildflowers; and with them a whole host birds and other small creatures. The landscape is becoming dominated a allien deerproof invaders which provide little food or cover. Hunters can't hunt these communities, there are just too many people and homes around, nor can we expect wolves to move in any time soon. And lets face it, we're all in favor of large predators in other peoples' back yards, especially in third world countries where people are somehow different than us. But take risks here? Not on your life.

Ward I am with you 100 percent the only problem I had was with Pennsylvania hunters not New Jersey hunters. If I can hopefully make some sense of it because to be honest it just confused me but evidently we had an excellent wildlife bioligist who was very successful in lowering the number of deer in the state of Pennsylvania. So successful in fact that the deer hunters in Pennsylvania wanted to stop the deer hunting in Pennsylvania because there weren't enough deer in their counties to hunt at least the kind they wanted the ones with the big rack of antlers. So we had to accomodate the hunters and I think the wildlife biologist lost his job. I'm not sure it was in a series of articles that I read in the Philadelphia Inquirer several months ago. A friend of a friend of mine has a large estate in Gladwyne and every year during deer hunting season he has bow and arrow hunters from the city of Philadelphia come in and hunt the deer and then take the carcasses back to the city and there they usually eat what they killed with the bow and arrow. He's happy the city bow and arrow hunters are happy and that works well. I am not aganst hunting or hunters just some of the hunters. We have way too many deer here!! Sarah

Actually, Sarah, the guy you're talking about retired, in disgust, basically. He did a super job of managing the populations of deer in the rural parts of the state, and yes, the hunting groups placed a lot of pressure on him. There was actually a funny editorial in the Inquirer about how underutilized SEPTA (our public transport system in eastern PA) should look into shipping deer out west to solve both problems at once...

Lots of places here where I am have bow hunts, including several local arboreta and my son's school, but they have to be very quiet about it. Hunters aren't the only ones with loud voices that argue vehemently - there are plenty of animal rights people who won't admit that the herds need to be thinned, for the sake of the deer if nothing else.

Personally, I'd be happy to risk large predators in my back yard, but my husband doesn't want to move anywhere that rural, darn it :(

They recently reintroduced wild turkeys to our area. Now besides dodging deer on the side of the road, I have to look out for the dozens of turkeys that line the highways. I don't get how adding another species that has no predators is a good decision. We have a few coyotes here, but not much else. I understand the argument that nobody wants wolves or mountain lions in their backyard, but how often would either of those make itself known to a human anyway? Aren't both extremely solitary animals? With all the deer around, I doubt they'd have any reason to venture into someone's backyard to get lunch. If they introduced a very small number and equipped them with a tracking device, would that not be a possible solution for balancing things out?

Since I work with small children, I once had an idea about writing a book about the value of predators to an ecosystem. I really think you have to work hard to combat the alarmist mentality of the media. Educating kids would be the way to start. Anyone with some time on your hands might try it. I really think that an old native American tale illustrated would be great. I'm sure they had some good ones.

Thank you jillcmn for explaining it to me. I know what you mean I think the animal rights groups and the Pennsylvania hunters are both a little obsessed. I have both in my family. The next family get together I would love to put them next to each other and see what happens. Cute about septa. Sarah

>I understand the argument that nobody wants wolves or mountain lions in their backyard, but how often would either of those make itself known to a human anyway? Aren't both extremely solitary animals?Rudy, you're right, for the most part. There's a manmade wetland area near me that's very well maintained. They've managed to attract dozens of bird species, alligators, dozens of species of amphibians and reptiles, and a very healthy population of rabbits, raccoons, oppossums, and some deer to the area over the past few years. The area has tours and nature walks looping right through the forested and the open areas on a near weekly basis, as well as having somebody who lives on the property to keep an eye on things. And, believe it or not, there's a fairly busy airport literally across the street from the front of the area and an interstate borders one side of it. There are hundreds of urban/suburban homes only about five miles away (most of those residents are blissfully ignorant of the fact that there are large predators just down the road from them - the place does not advertise the fact that it has predators to anybody who doesn't come on one of their nature walks). There have not been any problems with the predators bothering people to my knowledge. The people who own/maintain the area know for certain that there are bobcats, theere is at least one cougar (unmistakable tracks all over the place from time to time) and at least a few coyotes that frequent the place. They have never once seen the cougar. It only comes out at night, apparently, and it has no desire whatsoever to show itself to people or bother people. The coyotes and bobcats have only been seen rarely and briefly.

Another example is with black bears. In my own county in GA, and also in many other counties in GA including Floyd (I lived there briefly), black bears live in suburbia that borders sparse forests. The black bears are increasingly being forced to venture into people's backyards to look for food, since their forest areas keep shrinking to put up more homes, but I have yet to hear any horror stories about the bears attacking people or even attacking pets in my area. All of them that I've heard of have been shy and respectful of people. They're only coming into backyards to search for food, since there's so little left in their tiny little patches of forest. It's only when people start feeding the bears that problems occur - then they get used to people and start expecting food, and that can really get dangerous.

Bingo! Do you know how many threads over the last year have been from people asking how to feed deer, and other wildlife? For some reason, you cannot talk people out of the thrill of having a close encounter with wildlife through feeding them regardless of how much you explain that it will be disastrous for the wildlife. Of course, people are all happy to take the risk until it turns ugly. I find that people just want to believe that animals have human emotions and though processes and will behave like humans. When they behave like animals, they want to kill them.

Vonyon there's a movie that just opened yesterday called "Grizzly Man" Which I haven't seen but I was listening to a radio interview with the filmaker who is from Germany and I remember two years ago the incident because it seemed to happen around the same time as the cougar incident in California. Although I haven't seen the film I think the filmaker was making your point when he decided to make grizzly man. Sarah

vonyon, you are definitely onto something "I find that people just want to believe that animals have human emotions and though processes and will behave like humans,"

either that, or they believe that all animals act alike. A lot of new rabbit pet owners expect the rabbit to behave like a dog or cat. As a pet rabbit owner, it hasn't been until I spent more time learning about rabbit behavior that I have really been able to enjoy my pets. As prey animals, rabbits are so very different that cats and dogs. Although horses are a large prey animal, their large size gives them differences to smaller prey animals, just as deer and cottontails would be different. Large predators and small predators as well. So, how could a neophyte animal lover expect to help a wild animal by befriending it? They wouldn't know nearly enough. Unfortunately, as you also pointed out, they don't know that they don't know.

Ummmmmm....good point, but then again, people tend to forget that even humans raised in different cultures will behave and think differently and that is okay. Just understand it.

Wardw, if you're reading this, do you know if there has been any discussion of reducing the distance a bow hunter can hunt from an "occupied building" to 150' in NJ? (I believe this idea has been considered in PA.)

Doing so would open up a lot of land to bow hunters - if land owners would allow it. With a lowered distance, I could put two hunters on my property and be way outside 150' and maybe begin to get the home herd which can top 20 deer under control.

I am also urging our township committee to allow hunts on township lands, but that's not going to go too far in controlling the deer population - the hunters have to get into residential areas or you need hired sharpshooters in order to really get the population down.

One thing I am against, though, is Sunday hunting which I believe has been or is being considered in NJ. We need some time where we can feel safe being in the woods.

I'm not sure how I feel about the bear hunt. I do believe in taking out nuisance bears but I also believe that anyone who lives in bear country should be required to have a bear proof garbage can. (That said, I am visited by bears about once a year and I don't bring in my bird feeders. My dog encountered a bear just last week in the back yard - fortunately Dog is a sissy and came running to the door with his tail between his legs. I've never had bears get into the garbage but they have pulled down bird feeders.) I think that if we do have a hunt, NJ hunters should get preference on licenses over hunters from other states.

Rudysmallfry, wolves are pack animals and therefore not solitary, but they are extremely elusive.

UGH!! Check out this idea!! When will we learn?

Here is a link that might be useful: Lions and Elephants on the Great Plains of the US?

I'm not in favor of Sunday hunting either. Being a lifelong birder I like one day in the fall when I can get into woods where hunting takes place. I don't know of any discussion about shortening the bow hunting safe distance in New Jersey, but it would be a good idea in suburban areas.

I heard that on the news today about elephants and tigers in the great plains Our goverment is nuts. Where the heck are the Buffalo? I would think they have priority along with mountain lions who used to exist even in our state. Sarah