Vegangirl: Congrats!! You have just made such an important discovery on how ecosystems work. I try to convince people all the time to get rid of feeders and simply allow habitat to grow. I try not to be militant, but to encourage a change in the thought process. I hope people that read this are convinced!! Habitat does many things that feeders cannot. Feeders concentrate the birds making them highly visible to prey. They also do not provide cover (to escape predators, keep warm and nest in) for the birds like plants do. They encourage disease to spread and also attract non-native birds. It is so nice to hear your stories. Keep them coming and tell all your friends.

Vegangirl,

I'm in the process of drawingf a wish list for a backyard wildlife havbitat,...to include a pond and stream, and lots of butterfly larval plants.

I'm not far from you, zone 8b, so I suspect many trees you have there would do well here...could you give me a short list of natives you like for birds/food/cover?

Vonyon, the only problem is that we aren't getting any work done:-) A typical day...."Warblers outside the south windows!" and everybody comes running with binocs. or "Tanager in the cherry tree!" "What is that little brown bird in the elderberry bush?" What fun!!

Msrpaul, I'd be happy to make a list of what we have here. I'll be away today and tomorrow so it will probably be sunday before I can do it. We've seen some lovely butterflies too. I need to get my Butterfly field guide out and ID them too.

I'll be waiting..:) thanks!

I'm sure many other species use these for food but these are what I've personally seen eating the seeds or fruit

Trees, Shrubs, Vines
Carpinus carolinianum (Ironwood) Seeds (not sure of spelling!)

Rose-breasted Grosbeak
Cardinal
Song Sparrow
American Goldfinch
Indigo Bunting

Clematis virginica (Virgin's Bower) Seeds

American Goldfinch

Cornus amomum (Silky Dogwood) Berries

Rose-breasted Grosbeak
Eastern Towhee
Cardinal
Scarlet Tanager
Eastern Chipmunk

Crataegus species (Hawthorn) Berries

Catbird

Grape species Fruit

Scarlet Tanager
Eastern Bluebird
Catbird
American Robin

Rubus allegheniensis (Common Blackberry) Berries

Catbird
Brown Thrasher
Eastern Towhee

Sambucus canadensis (Common Elder) Berries

Rose-breasted Grosbeak
Eastern Towhee
Brown Thrasher
Catbird
Tennessee Warbler

Sumac typhina (Staghorn Sumac) Fruit

American Robin
Cedar Waxwing
Eastern Bluebird

I can't find my Butterfly Field Guide but I do know that I've seen several species on the Ironweed, goldenrod, asters, and coneflowers. I'll keep looking for the FG and try to identify what I'm seeing.

I meant to include this:
Spotted Touch-me-not (Impaatiens capensis) seepods are being eaten by immature reos-breasted grosbeaks.

The migrating warblers are very busy gleaning insects from the goldenrods and asters.

I've planted 380 trees and shrubs on my 10 acres of high desert during the last 5-6 years. I'm growing many different species and they're all mixed up. The long term goal is to have a natural or 'mixed forest' look. I've sprayed noxious weeds and have been able to get drought tolerant grasses established. There are more and more birds every year. It's fun watching them eat berries and chase bugs. Many of them are nesting on my property.

I don't have birdfeeders out. I tried it and only attracted house sparrows. Good habitat is the best way to get birds.

Dave in Wyoming

Hi Dave,

Sounds like you've been very busy! Did you only plant what was native to the high desert? It sounds like a wonderful place for birds.

I do have one birdfeeder. We rarely see house sparrows and then only in spring or early summer but they don't seem to be interested in the feeder. For the past 7 years, I've only seen one pair of house sparrows. I don't know where they nest. Our feeder attracts Carolina chickadees, tufted titmice, downy woodpeckers, Carolina wrens, cardinals, Eastern towhees, white-breasted nuthatches, goldfinches, some sparrow species, blue jays; and in winter we add house finches, pine siskins, purple finches, various sparrows and sometimes evening grosbeaks. i've probably left something out. During spring and fall migrations, we usually get a few red-winged blackbirds and grackles but the design of the feeder prevents the grackles and starlings from being able to feed. My husband and son designed and made it.

I don't put our hummingbird feeders because I know I would never think to clean them and keep them filled daily! I have plenty of flowers for the hummers.

I agree about the habitat. A relative has a birdfeeder out but her yard looks like a park, very well-groomed, no weedy or brushy-looking areas. She gets titmice and chickadees but mostly house sparrows and blackbirds. She finally quit feeding too. she thinks my feeder area outside my den windows looks "messy". Behind the feeder is a large area of bushes including common elder, silky dogwood, spicewood, another one that I can't spell, touch-me-nots, goldenrod, blackberry, raspberry, a wild clematis, etc. Trees include sugar maple, black locust, Cornus mas, carpinus, and others. It might look a bit messy but it's always "decorated" with birds at all seasons and I love it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I wrote a column on the virtues of a messy yard for attracting wildlife a year or so ago--you have proved what I was talking about.

Elaine, I was waiting for you to weigh in on this one! ;o)

Well Elaine, I'm convinced!:-) One thing I'm sad about is we have this huge elderberry bush just outside the den patio door where the deck will go. It's about 3 feet from the window. The warblers love it, must be lots of insects there. We've seen TN, hooded, chestnut-sided, and other warblers there. I regret that it has to be cut down for the deck. I must find out what big potted plant I can put on the deck that would attract them. We do have the elders just outside the south windows though and that's a good spot to wtch warblers, etc too. When we started building the house, i thought we would get rid of all the elders near the house because they sucker, but now there is NO WAY I would do that!!! We'll just have to keep them under control. They attract so many birds.
VG

VG...thanks for the list...I'm writing down all of these things ...to give to whomever I can find that I can hire to do a NATIVE garden and pond....it'll be a great project,....but nobody even returns my calls!

I know enough to know that this one needs me to hire a pro!

Yes...I have some feeders, and they do =bring a great crowd...but also make some mess...and I'm worried becuase I saw a sad sick little housefinch a couple of weeks ago..its eye was swollen shut...it came to the dack and asked me to help..all I could do was let it climb on a sandal and hold it to the feeder while it ate...

I don't know what happened to the little guy, but it woke me up the the fact that habitat with food is the way to go!

You're welcome. I hope it will be of help. Poor little housefinich:-( That's so sad.

Good luck with your project! It's going to be great when you're done, I'm sure. DH wants a pond too...maybe one of these days.

Great information! I didn't know about carpinus being a birdfood. I just mentioned on a catbird thread that the fall fruits of black gum are great attractions to fruit eating birds. I'll add sweetbay magnolia, sweet gum and small-seeded oaks (like live oak) to the list, too. The concept of using a great variety of native plants to attract a larger variety of wildlife is true for Florida just as it is for Virginia and Wyoming.

Serenoa, I didn't know about the carpinus until this year either! We have so many along the creek so I'm really glad they are good food plants. I forgot to mention Cornus florida, flowering dogwood. They are loaded with fruits this year but so far, I haven't seen a lot of activity in them. Maybe birds prefer them a little later, after frost maybe? Or maybe I just need to be a bit more observant!

Saturday, I saw a thrush in the silky dogwood but wasn't able to ID it for sure. I would guess it was there for the berries.

LOL Vegangirl........I can so relate to not getting any work done! And then I try to take a power walk, for my health, and I just can never get up to speed, because of all the birds I need to stop and look at through my binocs!
Some days, I force myself to not take my binocs, but it's still hard to get up to speed!
We have alot of property, and I decided a long time ago to go more natural, and it opened up a whole new world. .....the world the way it' supposed to be! We also didn't get to weeding our backyard last summer and this summer (between the house and my stocktanks which hold some lotus), and I realized that the frogs love those weeds! So now, not only do we get out of work, weeding that area, we get serenaded by the frogs! How cool is that?
It's wonderful coming to the realization that so many of the things that we've learned to do with nature, aren't the best, and once we can "let it be", it's so much more magnificent!

What a wonderful place you must have, Vegangirl. Congratulations.

I must admit that, although most of my property is wild and I keep planting for wildlife, I do have 3 feeders plus 2 hummer feeders.

I have some grass for the grands and the dog to play on but am allowing the woods to encroach, but just to a certain point.

I keep the feeders for a couple of reasons: 1. As I'm going to have to work until I'm 100 and I work 6 days a week, I don't have the luxury of being home all day to watch the birds; therefore, the feeders bring some of the birds to me. The very few days in spring when I don't have to go to work until late, I treasure sitting on the deck and looking for warblers. 2. Even with good binoculars, it's difficult for me to see the birds unless they are up close - and the feeders bring them up close.

Of course, the warblers don't come to the feeders - although I've had ovenbirds on them - so I have to hope at least some of the warblers land in the trees closest to the house.

The front of the house faces a grove of evergreens, spruces and white pines. I normally don't want trees close to the house but these are on the downhill side so if they fall, they are most likely to fall away from the house. These trees have been full of both kinglets this week and the remains of the impatiens capensis have hosted Connecticut warblers.

I've got spice bushes all around the house and they are wonderful for all kinds of birds. My son has some a few beautiful female Ilex vertiicillata at his garden center. I think I'm going to buy one and plant it close to the house also. I've got wild ones but they are far from the house where I can't see them.

This week I had little sparrows - they could have been chipping sparrows, but even with glasses I could not definitely ID them - were eating the seeds of the stilt grass - which did not make me happy.

Thanks for mentioning the elderberry - 'cause it reminded me that I have to buy a couple more. The ancient one seems to be dying out, but one planted two years ago is doing well.

Catherine, LOL! Tough, isn't it:-) I caught a cold last week and had to spend two days in a recliner in the den with nothing to do but watch the warbler migration. Sad, huh? We have about 20 acres and at first, I wanted the clean, park-like look close to the house like the aforementioned relative. I have always admired her yard and flower beds. But after building and the fact that it's taken us 5 years to build (we're doing it all ourselves and paying as we go), I haven't had much time to make it look like a park. Boy am I ever glad. I see the benefits of the "messy" look now and am totally re-thinking my yard and flower beds. I do want to have a neat bed along the driveway. I have the remnants of a bed there from when we lived here in a mobile home 18 years ago. Sorry to ramble on about the flowers, etc. Back to the original topic.... That is way cool about the frogs!! I LOVE to hear the peep frogs and the toads.

NJTea, your place sounds wonderful too! I like my feeder too and plan to keep it. I can't help wondering if seeing the feeder birds safely eating gave the warblers, etc confidence to come closer to the house:-) We are fortuante that our business is here at home (we have a daylily farm) and about the time business begins to slow down the fall warbler migration heats up. I have been planning to get some Ilex vertiicillata too. From what I read, they are good for attracting several species of birds and are attractive too. We have a large area of grass. DH must have grass. He loves the look of it and the robins like it too:-) I'll have to spend the winter planning my flower beds and how to make them integrate smoothly with the messy areas:-)

Since this was written in 2005, I thought I would give an update. The same thing happened in the fall of 2006. Many migrating birds took advantage of our messy backyard to
refresh temselves.

Last fall we added black-billed cuckoo to the list. It hung around for about a week. Then this spring, he/she was back. Also a yellow-billed cuckoo is singing in the trees all along the creek so we think they might be establishing a territory here!

We put up a few bird houses and have a bluebird family in one of them. A pair of blue jays built a nest that we can watch from the kitchen windows. It's in a tall cherry tree along the creek.

I still haven't found any Ilex verticillia.

One of my older neighbors said that people shouldn't attract birds to their yards because then they eat up all the food crops. I've been paying attention and I've seen catbirds eat a few blueberries and then to to the soybeans and eat insects off the soybeans (this was last summer.

I can add that goldfinches, indigo buntings, and song sparrows eat dandelion seeds.

I would love to hear what aothers are doing and seeing!
VG

VG Try this site. I think I got mine at Solomon Holly Farm. I believe they may have gone out of business since then though.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wayside

Thank you! That's an impressive picture of the tree with berries!

This is a great thread. Vegangirl, your property sounds like a mini-bird sanctuary! How exciting!

I have been organic gardening for many years, but in the last few years have focused on gardening for wildlife. I really enjoy seeing the birds, butterflies, and insects flitting around the yard. It makes the yard feel like it's so full of life!

About half of my lot (1.25 acres) is wild and messy. The wildlife loves it and so do I, but unfortunately it is infested with non-native invasives. This area is undergoing some intense management, or it will be nothing but Buckthorn, Norway maple, and Oriental bittersweet in another decade or two.

So a big part of my gardening plan is to reduce or eliminate (if possible) the invasives and increase the number of natives, particularly those that attract wildlife. Fortunately there is a backbone of mature native trees and plants in the yard, some snags, and lots of cover, and I want to enhance that as much as possible. Even thinking about a possible pond.

I do have feeders - for suet and sunflower seed, and also several birdbaths. I have seen a wide variety of native birds on these. They absolutely LOVE the Suet Log and the suet mixture I make. Some people say that putting out feeders encourages the birds to stay around and they will eat more insects in your yard that way.

Feeders are okay, but birds rely on natural vegetation and sources of food to survive, and I want the yard to be a complete habitat.

Terrene,
Thanks for sharing your story! It sounds like you have a good place for wildlife too.

We garden organically too. The only invasive that we have a problem with is multiflora rose. All our trees are natives. I have shrubs and perennials that are not native but they are not invasive. I wish you success with your invasives battles.

Snags are important! We have one right in fromt of the big den windows, beside the bird feeder. It's a dead black locust. One day I was sitting in the den, talking on the phone. It was raining and there was a little flycatcher sitting in the top of that snag bathing in the rain! Every so often he would open his beak and catch raindrops. I wanted to toss the phone and grab the video camera but didn't. I regret that now!

VG

Hi VG - well I hope the wildlife likes it here.

I have non-natives that are well-behaved too but unfortunately, also have some real thugs. The New England Wildflower Society has an article on invasives and they listed what they consider the "Dirty Dozen" in New England. Well I have EIGHT of the twelve here!

There are a number of snags on the lot, mostly dead Red Pines that succumbed to the onslaught of the Bittersweet and Norway maples. I have purposely left them standing.

Also a friend just girdled two large Norway maples with a chainsaw. They're towards the back of the yard and should die slowly over the next year and will be left standing. Hopefully they will turn into snags.

I've decided I'm going to plant native vines to climb up the snags. Just transplanted a Virginia creeper seedling over next to one of them today. Also thinking about trumpet vine.

My theory is that the vines will enhance the wildlife value of the snag - by adding cover, flowers, and berries, and promoting rot of the snag.

Eight of the twelve! Oh my! You do hvae your work cut out for you.

Wild grape vines make excellent cover for birds and many of them eat the fruit. We have one growing in a dead butternut tree that has to be around 50 years old (the grape that is. I guess the butternut is older).

Best of luck with your efforts!
VG

VG: I have about 2 1/2 acres here and about 1/2 of it is wild. The birds love it!

Terrene, It is an uphill battle all the time isn't it? I northeastern Massachusetts and fight with the same invasives. We spent a weekend a few weeks back ripping bittersweet out of the trees. We still haven't killed the roots. I can't convince people around here to stop using it for decoration! I don't know what buckthorn looks like. Do you have a picture that you could post? I have looked online and still cannot id any. I'm sure I have it here. Do you have a week wrench? I'm thinking of investing in one.

VG, I'm glad you mentioned the snags. They are so important for the cavity nesters and woodpeckers. I have a pair of pileated woodpeckers (maybe more) plus an assortment of smaller ones. Lots of bluebirds.

I had mixed feelings when I saw the pileated woodpeckers coming to the suet feeder. On the other hand, it was exciting to be within 20 feet of a pair of them! Those guys are massive!

Last winter after the wind toppled one of the snags, I cut it up into firewood. One hollow branch contained a nest made of hair from my chow dog, who had died the previous spring. Must have been cozy for the babies!

Vonyon, I'll bet they do! What are some of your favorite plants? What is a week wrench?

Barton, What a neat story about the nest with your dog's hair. Must have been a bittersweet moment for you :-)

We've never had the pileateds come to the feeder. How exciting! Here they come to the dead trees near the house. They can really make the woods chips fly!

VG

VG: I meant to say weeD wrench. Sorry. My favorite plants: All native shrubs, but native dogwoods, elderberries, bayberries are some of the birds' favorites.

Vonyon LOL! In trying to figure that out, the word "weed" never even occured to me. I should have thought of that. :-)

I think I would have to pick the elderberry for bird attractiveness too. It's also pretty. And my SIL always picks a few berries to make elderberry jelly.

Hey Vonyon, I think I have Frangula alnus here, European or Glossy Buckthorn. It is a horrible invasive. It's a rugged upright shrub growing about 8-12 feet tall and makes about a million dark purple berries that the birds eat. It is extremely difficult to dig out, the roots are thick and tenacious.

Check out the link below. Here is a pic from the Buckthorn in my back yard:

{{gwi:1349707}}

And yes, I just bought a weed wrench this spring. The 2nd biggest size, 17 pounds and handles a 2 inch trunk size. It is fantastic - I LOVE it! I could have used this years ago. I recommend it highly.

I will clear the invasives out in phases - and then plant natives in their place. That's what I'm going to do with the shrub and tree seedlings I got from the NH Nursery - all of which are doing great and all will make berries for the birds!

Here is a link that might be useful: Frangula alnus

VG: Old typing errors............k = d and d = k!! Secret code... ;o)

Terry, I don't think I've seen that around, but thanks for the link and the pics. I'm sure if you have it, I do. I've been "blessed" with every other nasty invasive.

vonyon, you confuse me when you use my name and you're not talking to me ;-) terrene are you Terry too? Or is vonyon just confusing you with me again? lol..
And also vonyon, going back up and re-reading this whole thread, I saw Elaine_NJ6 post, but of course in 05. Where did she go? I miss her posts!

Oh, I thought that both were Terrys. I'm not sure. Sorry for the confusion. I have no idea what became of Elaine. I miss her posts too.

I'm just teasing you vonyon. I tried e-mailing her thru here last year and got no response. I wish she'd come back!

I think I did that also, but same result. Maybe she is off to a new forum!

I'd like to find that forum!

I've observed similar wonderful results in creating habitat - been in this house three years and every spring there are more birds.

I now have two large perennial & shrub beds planted with all bird/butterfly supporting natives along with my large veggie garden. We listen to birdsong all day long and I'm getting to know the regulars - I think they're getting to know me, too.

The birds do a nice job tending the veggie garden and keeping the pests down.

Today there were numerous young birds from one or two nearby nests, apparently trying out their wings. Little, plump, fluffy and one very cute, flew right up to the window and we stared each other in the face for a while, then flew to the screen porch and hung on there, then later I saw it on top of the fence, leaning against the post. It looked at me and chirped hopefully, as if I might be its parent and save it the trip back to the nest.

My next door neighbor loves birds and wildlife too so we have compatible yards. The only problem: a recent brown rat sighting. So now I'm trying to balance it out - keep it bird friendly but not overly rodent-friendly. I have no feeders but I think they may be dropping by for the water in my birdbaths, and the dense tangle in my neighbor's garden (mine is not manicured but much more organized and with more space between things than hers).
-O

Organica,
Thank you for sharing about your yard. You are lucky that your neighbor also loves birds and wildlife. We don't have really close neighbors..1/4 mile or so away. A few of them feed the birds in winter but don't plant to attract them. Maybe that means they all come to my yard:-)

Hi,

Is Sweetbay Magnolia (Magnolia virginiana var. virginiana) self-fertile? Does anyone have just one specimen growing in a region where there are none nearby and yet still get fruit?

Thanks,
Steven

Steven,
I don't know about the magnolia. You might try asking over at the Tree forum. We have cucumber magnolia and big eared magnolia (I think that's the name) and maybe some others, maybe sweet bay. I just don't know:)
VG

I believe sweet bay magnolia is self-fruitful. At my workplace, there is one planted in a courtyard area, by itself, and fruits. Birds do like the fruits.

How nice this thread got bumped! I enjoyed re-reading it and thinking about how much the yard has changed in a year.

My bird-friendly yard is evolving. Have made great progress removing invasives, particularly Bittersweet, Buckthorn, and Norway Maples (treework cost me $2000 last year and there's still one GINORMOUS Norway maple left).

There was a lot of brush created by all this tree/shrub work. Some was burned this Spring, right smack in the middle of the Oriental bittersweet patch, but the rest is in piles. The brush piles attract a lot of birds, particularly Sparrows, Cardinals, Juncos, and Wrens. The birds also love the back half-acre, which is wild and full of Crabapples, Choke Cherries, White Pine, and still some invasives like Honeysuckle and Autumn olive.

Also making great progress on growing bird-friendly natives. Purchased another 50 native tree/shrub seedlings from the NH Nursery. That makes 130 total between this year and last - all of which ultimately make berries/nuts for the birds and wildlife. Most of them are in holding beds and haven't flowered yet, too little, but I've given away some and started to plant out a few. I winter-sowed many native species of perennials, annuals, and vines. Exactly where all this stuff is going, is not completely clear at this point, but I'm creating lasagne beds like crazy!

The birds are always flitting around the yard and it's only going to get more interesting and fruitful for them (hopefully). It's great!

Don't forget to plant a variety of native plants - even the ones that don't set berries. Native plants attract native insects which the birds need for their babies. Baby birds eat insects (for protein) almost exclusively.

terrene,it sure sounds like you have made great progress!! I agree with esh_ga about the variety too. The migrating fall warblers are all over the asters and goldenrods for insects. There are varieties of both that will take over your gardens so be sure and choose varieties that are clumping! Spring flowering trees attract warblers and other insect eaters because of all the insects the flowers attract

Another thing I noticed this spring was goldfinches and Baltimore orioles eating the flower buds on the apple trees. Our trees had a lot so we don't miss the few that they ate.
VG

Well, my rationale for all the berry-producing shrubs/small trees is to establish at least a few native understory plants in my yard. I figure the birds will eat the berries here and start to spread them around a little. The understory growing in the woodlands around here is about 99% non-native - shrub Honeysuckle, Buckthorn, Multiflora rose, Burning bush, etc. Who knows, it could be like trying to shovel sand against the tide...

Totally agree about the insects and growing a variety of native plants. Apparently, insects are the primary source of protein in birds' diets, so having an organic yard is important. And I have a bit of a "collector mentality" about growing native species, which is surprising because I don't collect anything and it doesn't apply to the non-native species growing in the garden.