They sure do sucker. As for making a solid hedge, it will take some work. They tend to get leggy. A clump in the wild has bare stems up several feet and a "canopy" above that. I have seen groups in full sun that look better, look more dense and branched to the ground. The UK nurseries often suggest 18" apart, and if two rows, make the rows 12" apart. Plant small, and plant lots!

Here is a link that might be useful: Hedgerow calculator

Hmmm... I planted mine 6+ feet apart after asking some questions in the shrub forum last year. Hope I didn't space them too far apart. I plan on pruning mine so they will branch out and I'm putting a shorter row of other shrubs in front of them to cover up the bare bottom branches and make my shrub row purtier with different colored foliage. Now you've got me worried! Will they come together and overlap at the top if I do it this way? I'm patient and don't want an instant hedge but I am planting them (and others) along my property line for privacy. I guess it's more of a shrub row and wouldn't be considered a hedge since I don't plan on squaring it off or anything like that. Kevin - When you saw the wild clumps, how far up were they bare? My shorter row in front of the gray dogwoods will mature around five foot and I'm hoping that will be plenty to cover up bare stems. Also - were you saying that they wouldn't be as likely to get bare stems at the bottom if they're in full sun? Rita - How much room do you have the other way? (How deep can your hedge be?)

They were bare 3'-4' up. I could see deer paths through them. I found some more info in a hedge book I had on the shelf. They suggested planting 2'-3' apart, with a once yearly shearing to keep it dense. They added that a rejuvenation pruning(to the ground) would be needed every so often to keep it thick at the base.
As for sun, most shrubs will be denser in full sun vs. shade. I am looking out my window right now at a monster C. racemosa, 8' high and 8' wide, dense to to the ground, in a wet area in full sun.

Oh, brother. This is not going as I expected. After much thought I picked an area that I figured would do well in grey dogwood because I am really trying to get some shrub dogwoods into my garden. This is not the same area that I was asking about the red-twig dogwood for. Anyway, since height is not an issue in this spot (the shrubs could be whatever height they grow, no problem) I figured I had a good place. But there are barberries there now (I have been digging out and replacing barberries around here all year and am nowhere near done) and I wanted something that would be a screen. I don't really mean a hedge in the scence that privet is usually a hedge, I am not going to be manicuring these with a hedge clipper. I just meant a hedgerow for privacy and bird attracting. But if they grow tall but no lower leaves, this is not what I had been picturing in my mind for a hedge.

It is in the sun. To try and explain the area, here goes. Trying to do privacy plantings plus bird attracting shrubs on two sides of property line, with the two lines meeting at the corner in a ninety degree angle. The area where the proposed grey dogwoods go is along the side of the neighbors driveway on one side at a corner. Further up from this, the spot gets partly sunny and still further up, very shady. I was thinking of shrubs for the length of whatever to get to the area being discussed and put in the grey dogwoods. Then I was going to do a triple row of bird attracting shrubs at the property line at right angles to the grey dogwoods. Here I was thinking of a middle row of mixed viburnums maybe and silky dogwood at the back and I don't know what for the first row. It is sunny. I would love to get a crabapple in there and even some bush cherries if it would work. But all in the planning stages and much work to get it done. Again, full of old, very overgrown barberries that just look terrible. Since I can not pull everything out and plant it at once, all will have to be done in stages. This will be a multiyear project unless I win the lottery. Also, the barberries, while very ugly are an effective thick screen and give lots of privacy. Therefore, they are not coming out until I am ready to put the replacement in.

Anyway, therefore there would eventually be more shrubs in front of the dogwoods that would not be as high as they grow. Maybe two years from now by the time I get these in. Maybe I should use Silky Dogwood if it grows thicker than the grey. Cutting it down to the ground every few years to rejuvenate it seems as if I would loose the effect of the privacy planting. What to do? Thats why I am starting my planning now. If I come up with a layout for this whole area, I can just keep working on the grand design until I get it done. Coming up with the idea of what shrubs and where to put them, is proving to be difficult for me since I am really lousy at planning and can only afford the do it yourself route.

If you are planting a multi-row shrub border, the bare 'legs' of the gray dogwood shouldn't be an issue. In a sunny spot, I don't think the gray dogwood will be too open at the base, as noted above by Christie. At any rate, if you plant some smaller, more denser shrubs in front of the grays (silky dogwoods or a smaller viburnum like arrowwood would be good), you will end up with a good dense border for both privacy and wildlife habitat.

How about a row of Viburnum prunifolium('Early Red' or 'Summer Magic' are nice) or Viburnum rufidulum('Royal Guard' is excellent)instead of the grey dogwood? The Blackhaw gets its name from the dense Hawthorn-like branching. Good screen. I have four screens "under construction" at my house, all along one line of my property. There are lines of Viburnum x rhytidophylloides 'Alleghany', Thuja 'Green Giant', Viburnum prunifolium, and Crataegus phaenopyrum. The other side of the property is mixed with shrubs and trees of all sorts.

I have lots of grey dogwood. The back fence row does have leggy tall specimens; it was here before I bought the property and is a THICKLY grown natural hedge of g.dogwood, native crabs, sumac, black cherry trees, box elder trees. These are old plants - very dark and shady back in there.

I allowed some bird planted grey dogwoods to grow into a thicket on the side of my property. These plants are about 10 years old, shoulder high, and very dense. They are in full sun. Maybe they will get lanky with age, but they don't show any signs of it noew.

Anyway - I second Kevins suggestions for a mixed species thicket. The one in the FRONT of my property includes various viburnums (v.trilobum, v.prunifolium, v.cassinoides, v.dentatum), aronia melanocarpas, calycanthus floridus, cephalanthus occidentalis, native shrub roses, comptonia peregrina, clethra, cornus stolonifera, fothergilla gardenii, rhus aromatica, various tall skinny evergreens, and some trees.

I saw a new Viburnum dentatum yesterday, called 'Raspberry Tart', which is supposed to stay 5' or less and be very dense. Just another cultivar to throw into the mix(and it was 50% off!).

Well, I decide to start "small" so I ordered conservation shrub seedlings that are supposed to be at least 6-12 inches tall. Just mailed off my order for 10 silky and ten grey dogwood plus ten red elderbery.

I originally thought about getting them larger but pricing them, decided it was way too expensive, plus they are supposed to grow rapidly. I am one of these impatient types, so I want immediate impact but since I did do alot of wildlife improvement last year think that this will work out better anyway. I am thinking the smaller seedlings get a better chance to get established early in the spring when they get planted bare root before they hot dry weather arrives, so I will not have to water everyday like I did with some of the items I planted in the middle of last summer!

I wonder how long until the dogwoods flower? Certainly not there first year I guess but I am hoping they will be able to get off to a great start and grow fast.

Anyway, I am really pleased that I am going to be able to add the shrub dogwoods for my wildlife improvement habitat.

I ordered bareroot gray dogwood seedlings and planted in March this year. One of the larger ones bloomed a little and had a few berries even. I'm guessing it was a little under two foot tall when I planted it. I planted six of the larger ones along my property line, and kept them mulched and watered better than the rest which I planted along the edge of our field. The ones in the yard put out more new growth than the others. We had a very dry summer and I watered about once a week. I haven't had any trouble with seedlings I've gotten from our conservation department. I ordered a mixed oak bundle and spicebush (lindera benzoin) for next spring.

I can water the seedlings if necessary and will keep watch on them to make sure they do well. I was just thinking that I might not have to water so frequently as I did the shrubs I planted in August last year, in the middle of the heat spell. These will be planted early enough that they should get a head start on the hot weather coming on.

I think mine are going to be way smaller than the ones you planted, Christie. Still, I can wait until the following year for blossoms and berries. At least I know I am doing something nice for the birds and making the place attractive to people and critters.

Mine were small when planted, and the first winter they were chewed down to the ground--rabbits I think; I didn't have many plants at that point. I moved the ones that were left (all tiny) nearer the garage, to an east-facing site. I believe they bloomed the third year and have fruited abundantly ever since. Silky dogwood fruited the second year for me, and C. florida has fruited in the second year in some spots and not until the fourth in shadier places.

My experience is that the native dogwood species fruit sooner than the viburnums. In their fifth years, V. prunifolium and lentago each put out just a few blooms and fruits this past year for the first time. V. trilobum fruited exuberantly, however.

Chokecherries bloom and fruit from the first year--but the birds do not eat the fruits.

We don't have either deer nor rabbits around here so I can plant really small stuff with no concern that it will be chewed down. I am just usually not patient enough to plant small. However, in the case of the shrub dogwoods its going to be much easier to get the little guys planted and I am prepaired to wait for blooms. I do expect them to grow quickly.

I never did go for the hedge. Instead I am putting some Grey Dogwood, some Silky Dogwood, some Red Elderbery and lots of Viburnums for a mixed shrub border. Already started on the planting this spring.

Is your red elderberry the highly poisonous scarlet elder (Sambucus pubens) or the nonpoisonous American elder (S. canadensis)? All parts of the former are extremely poisonous to humans. But are excellent wildlife plants, but I only have S. canadensis.

Know what you plant.

I have red elder, S. pubens. Got it from New Hampshire State Conservation Nursery. The grey dogwood seems to be growing well as well as the silky dogwood. Most are mixed in the viburnum shrub border. Going to get S. canadensis next year.

So, if I want to do a row of Grey Dogood with Silky Dogwood in front then I should plant the Silky Dogwood 12 inches in front of the Grey????? That doesn't seem right. If they grow together, I wonder how I will figgure out which is Silky, which is Grey.

I never did do the Grey Dogwood hedge in the area I was originially thinking of doing it last year. But next Spring I am getting more Silky and Grey Dogwood from the Conservation Nursery and doing a double row at the property line, in front of (to hide) my neighbors garage. I will do a row of Grey Dogwood, then a row of Silky in front of that since its shorter. Eventually will put more rows of shrubs in front of those but thats the start of the plan.

12 inches is VERY close for either/both of these species. I suppose this would produce a hedge, but adjacent plants would be totally intertwined. For a dense row of either species, I would suggest at least 4 feet between plants. For two staggered rows (silky in front, it should stay smaller), I would suggest plants 6 feet apart in each row, rows at least 3 feet apart.

Gray and silky are easy to tell apart, especially when they have berries (silky = blue, gray = white).

Silky dogwoods here are much larger than C. racemosa.

One of my gray dogwoods that I planted last year is already sending up little suckers a few inches away from the original shrub. They were little sticks when I planted them early last spring and the biggest one is now around four feet tall and almost as wide and has several stems coming out from the base. I don't think you'll have to wait long even if you plant them a few feet apart. I've been surprised at how fast mine are growing.

I planted mine in early spring 2002. Wasn't sure that was clear.

My shrub dogwoods I got last Spring, I planted in my mixed shrub border with the Viburnums and some other things. I mostly put them in little groups of three or lined them up one row deep single file, in certain sections at the property line. They are growing slowly although doing well. I also forgot which some of them are as the Grey and Silky look exactly alike to me but I hope they look different flowering and I know the berries are different when ripe. But I do have two potted up, one Silky (the largest they sent me) and a group of three small Greys in one pot. Those I water often (don't water the ones in the shrub border) and they have put on lots and lots of growth!

I never had Grey or Silky Dogwood before this Spring, so I never quite grasped how it grows into a big sprawly shrub. 12 inches seems really, really close but 6 feet means wait for them to fill in. Not thick enough to cover obnoxious garage. I think I will not worry too much about the actual rows of grey and then Silky Dogwood and plant them 18 inches. I don't care if the branches grow together. Remember, I am getting little shrublets and they are cheep, $1.00 apiece, so who cares if I use up more of them?

The Conservation Nursery I get them from lists Grey to 15' and Silky to 10-12', so I will sick with the Grey for the back row. I think the 3-4 foot spacing should be between the shrubrows.

Christie-- Were yours really small shrubs when you planted them last spring?

I got mine in a bundle of 25 and some of them were really tiny and some maybe close to two feet tall. I can't remember. I think some of the seedlings our conservation department sends out are two or three years old already. I put the biggest ones along the side of my yard where they are in full sun and no root competition. The smaller ones I put on the south side of an old fence row where there are mature trees. They're still pretty small but did make it through the winter. My biggest one is at least twice the size of the next biggest one. I don't know why it's growing so much faster than the others but I expect the others to catch up soon. It's hard to picture a 12 to 15 foot high shrub row. I keep looking up at my 8 foot ceiling and I wonder if I got a little carried away. I have a big yard so maybe it won't be too overwhelming.

I have grey dogwood growing wild in my woods. I have a bench about 20 feet from a large area of these. I have to tell you I love watching the birds feast on the berries, they dearly love em!
In another area this year I had several grey dogwoods die. I can't figure out why? They were about 12 feet tall. Anyone have any ideas why they die out, are they short lived? Is this normal?

The fastest growing of any of the Grey or Silky Dogwood shrubs I planted last year is a Silky Dogwood I planted in a pot. That one gets lots of water so I think that is why it grew so fast. I hope it blooms next year. The grey and silky dogwoods I planted in my shrub border are doing well but have not grown too much.

I am still trying to decide on whether to go heavier on the grey dogwood or the spicebush as the back later in a new shrub border I am doing this spring. I know the birds are supposed to like the berries of both and they would have berries at different times.

The leaves on my gray dogwood didn't look very good last summer but I did get a few berries already. Did you find a place to get female spicebush? I planted a few but won't know for awhile which ones will have berries. Mine got eaten which I guess is good since it was swallowtail caterpillars that found them but they didn't leaf out again after that. Hope they're not dead.
I'm still a little uncertain about my gray dogwood. I'm afraid they'll spread too much and they don't have very nice foliage. If I had it to do over, I think I would plant more arrowwood and blackhaw viburnums along the side of my yard and put all the gray dogwood out along the field. That's based on some pretty small shrubs though. Maybe my gray dogwoods are just getting too much sun. On the plus side, mine seemed to get berries at different times which will be good to provide food over a longer period. Anyone know whether that was just because they are young or if that will continue?

I bought Spicebushes locally unsexed because I found it was impossible to get them any other way. But I like the looks of them much better than the looks of the shrub dogwoods I had planted last year, so I was thinking about getting more of them next year. I do plan on getting more grey dogwood from the conservation nursery and planting them in the back. Guess I could always pull them out if I wanted more Spicebush. I just worry that with only three, I will get unlucky and not have both sexes for berries. Guess we will see.

I am adding some more shrub dogwoods in the spring, both silky and grey. I have decided I also want to get 'Isanti' red twig dogwood for the back.

One of my Silky shrub Dogwoods is going to bloom. It has lots of bloom clusters coming along the branches. This will be the first blooming of shrub dogwoods for me.

My gray dogwoods are blooming now and more ornamental than I expected them to be. They're loaded with creamy white flowers. They're not as showy as our regular flowering dogwood but still very pretty. I should have lots of berries this year.

Christie, Aren't they beautiful in a natural sort of way? I think the bees and butterflies love the blooms. I love the fact that they serve both the wildlife and are attractive. Mine have been growing here for years and I didn't even know what they were. They were growing on a woodland edge. We always love the "natural hedge." It provides a screen and stays relatively neat. We have moved them down periodically and they come back stronger and fuller than ever.

My grey dogwoods are about 9 or 10 feet tall. Right now they are just about to bloom. I think they have the most beautiful flowers of any shrub I grow--each cluster looks like a tiny wedding bouquet. And the shrub altogether is simply gorgeous--foliage tinted slightly red in spring and deepest maroon in fall. I love this plant.

I also like its suckering habit, because I always have plants to replace the one the rabbits chew (rabbits love it) and to donate to the local arboretum. I just discovered that the people who run it are happy to take as many grey dogwood suckers as I can spare to replace old alien plantings.

My Silky Dogwood is blooming now, just covered with blossums. This is the first year any of the Shrub Dogwoods bloomed for me as I only put them in last spring as bare root seedlings I got from New Hampshire State Conservation Nursery. This one is the largest of the shrubs I put in so I hope next year more of them bloom, including the Grey Dogwoods.

All of my gray dogwoods are just loaded with berries this year except for the largest one which had less than a dozen. The others had thousands or at least hundreds. I thought that was a little strange. The one that didn't have berries is in exactly the same conditions as the others. I hope it has more berries next year.
I'm seeing some little suckers (I think) that are coming up about a foot from the original shrub in a few places. I hope they don't get out of control. I really like them for the amount of berries they have for the birds.

I didn't have berries this year on any of my grey Dogwoods and only on the one Silky Dogwood. But the biggest grey Dogwood clump has grown unbelievably this year so I am sure it will bloom in the spring.

Gey and Silky dogwood looking real good this year. Should be lots of blooms, I hope!

I can't believe some of these old threads are still here. I never did plant a grey dogwood hedge but I did plant a nice grouping of three grey dogwood clustered together. That was years ago but by now and the darn things must be ten feet tall. This past year they fruited very heavily and the birds were nuts for the berries.

I'm suprised how old this thread is! I am continuing to plant native in my backyard I planted Viburnum Trilobum along my back fence last year.
This year I'm interested in planting dogwood hedges along a side fence. But I'm a little concerned with their moisture needs.

My soil ranges beteen moist to dry. Will grey & silky dogwoods do well in these conditions?

Thanks!

I am no expert but they seem very adaptable here. I planted both grey and silky dogwoods years ago. I got the conservation size and like I said, boy they sure grew. I know I was told before I planted either that the birds eat berries of both but that they much prefer the grey dogwood. Well, that is an understatement. They are crazy for the grey dogwood berries. I wish I had planted more grey and less silky dogwood.

Thanks Rita,

I have about 25 feet of space along my fence where I would like to try the Grey dogwood in back and the Silky dogwood or maybe a viburnum species in front.

I don't know if you have them but I would suggest you think about adding a serviceberry or two. The birds love those berries. For berries that are eaten in winter, my favorite is winterberries. Beautiful red fruit, very attractive. Winterberries are really a holly, although not what most of us think of as holly.

Haven't grown silky dogwood, but have seen it listed in conservation plantings as liking moist soil.

Gray dogwood, on the other hand, you see it growing wild here on very poor, gravelly soils - it springs up in roadside areas along with the red cedar. (when the fall color comes, the gray dogwood is instantly recognizable with its maroon hue.) Here in Ohio, im concluding red cedar may be the most valuable wildlife tree - the female trees have little blue berries that bluebirds and others like, offers winter cover, roosting habitat, and is where the robins build their first nests of the spring.

I'm trying to decide between grey dogwood and american plum for a spot I have in part shade where I have to take out an old dying redbud. Does anyone have experience with american plum -- how ornamental are they, do they attract birds, etc. I have heard contradictory things.

Trust me, the gray dogwood berries will attract alot more birds than any sort of plum would. The grey dogwood also makes a very attractive shrub, but grows big.

This is my first posting. Thanks for being here. I have tiny (young) caterpillars using my grey dogwood leaves to incubate in. Is there anything non-toxic I can spray the leaves with to keep more from coming, or is it too late, or are they not that harmful? The grey dogwoods are native and were already growing here. But this is the first year I've seen caterpillars. Thanks much for any suggestions.

Is there an edging that will control the suckering on gray-twigged dogwood? Gardeners Supply sells 12" deep pound-in edging. Think that will work?