probably not for very long jenney.

ok this is as about as tactfully as i can get. Why are you so emotionally attached to the songbirds? Does it evoke a memory with you about something in the past? I'm just curious and not trying to attack you btw.

I am emotionally attached to all creatures. I even feel guilty killing ants.

I have asked forgiveness of my creator for not trying to stop that hawk from killing the dove in the yard. I spoke to the doves and apologized for not standing up for them that time. I assured them I would help them from no on, that I am on their side.

I have saved lizards and little frogs from cats. I have even put roaches and flies outside. I do kill mosquitos when they are near me or land on me and I wish I knew another way. Maybe I can bag them too and put them outside. I hadn't considered that before. I'll try it next time. The ants? Well, I'm not sure what kind of alternative to killing I can use because they are so small and sometimes there are alot of them. I'd like to look into ways to save them too and if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

I protect when I see a creature in harm's way. I am very protective. I can't help it.

ok so why is the dove more imp than the hawk? It is a creature too. Why are the doves survival and continued well being more imp than the hawks? Does the hawk deserve to suffer hunger pangs and eventually starvation because you chase it off every time it tries to hunt?

I don't consider the dove to be more important than the hawk. Their survival and continued well being? Well, I just want them to do it somewhere else. I don't think the hawks will suffer hunger pangs and starve just from not eating in this yard.

I just bought dog food to attract crows hoping that the crows will chase the hawks away. I notice crows when I am in the more citified areas where there are mostly buildings and also see little birds around those areas. That's what made me decide to try dog food. I never see little birds here. Mostly Grackles, Starlings and Doves. I also noticed there are no doves in the citified areas and that's o.k. if they are not here either. I would like to see the little birds here--they sing so pretty. I am trying to get more shrubs to eventually have the yard lined with them for the hopeful future home for the little birds.

I had a sparrow hawk visit the garden last week. Wow, she was really fast, and very impressive (din't manage to catch any thing that time though)She tried chasing a collared dive and a black bird. I won't try to discourage her, but I've noticed in a catalogue over here something called a "raptor ball", which is a mirrored sphere which is meant to show the hawk's reflection and scare it off.

We have quaker parrots, small groups of them around here and they are all green. Yesterday I couldn't believe my eyes. It was about 4 miles from here and I saw some quaker parrots with black on them. So I got my binoculars out (got to get a better pair) and tried to see the coloring more closely. It was too hard with these $1 binoculars but it looked like they were black underneath, green on the outside. I've never seen any but green before. When I was in Walmart buying birdseed , a woman said she had them coming to her balcony with black on them. I felt like I was seeing something spectacular.

Well I put out the dog food in a big cermic planter. Heard one crow flying overhead and no evidence of hawks. I know it can't be working that quickly though. Glad to see the crow as they chase away the hawks.

The raccoons and possums have always been here, and last night was the first time I ever heard the chirping sound the coons make. First the baby was snarling and growling at I think a bigger coon because when I looked out the window I saw the bigger coon eating the cat food. I opened the door to see what was happening and the little coon looked at me with a yellowish shine in his eyes and he looked mad so I closed the door and told them to stop fighting. They were making all sorts of noises out there last night.

A little while later, I don't know which one it was, and maybe it was more than one, but I heard the chirping sound they make. They can be just like some people, chirping like a bird when they're happy and snarling and growling when they get mad. Hahaha.

Jenney,

Problems with raccoons are generally due to feeding by humans. Just like the possum that entered through your cat door, raccoons will do the same thing. I'd like you to take a look at the link below. It's important reading for your own well-being and that of the wild animals that you attract.

In part it says;

"By putting food out for raccoons, we condition them to lose their "respect" for people--a trait that aids greatly in their ability to survive. It also causes local populations to become denser than the habitat can adequately support. At these times, raccoons begin to look more closely at your home to provide them shelter and they are more likely to become ill and to transmit diseases."

Maybe you aren't aware that raccoons are VERY difficult to get rid of once they move in making it necessary to kill them. I don't think you want to do that, do you?

Read on;
"Because relocated raccoons may spread disease to the resident raccoon population and because they frequently cause other problems, it is recommended that live-trapped raccoons be humanely killed. In fact, in many regions of Florida it is now illegal to release live-trapped raccoons."

It's possible that you're doing these creatures a terrible disservice by luring them to their death. This includes the cats that you allow to roam freely. Raccoons have been known to attack cats and cats will surely kill your songbirds.

Here is a link that might be useful: Why not to feed raccoons

Jenny, just like it's not good to put out bologna for the hawk or sweet treats for the other critters, it's not good to put dog food out for the crows.

IMHO, it would be best if you stopped feeding the birds and the animals. Plant your shrubs, but stop feeding altogether.

No matter how many people on this forum try to tell you this, you don't seem to understand. You are not helping any of the wildlife in your yard. You are doing more harm than good. Just leave them be.

Dampflippers, in regards to "raptor ball", which is a mirrored sphere which is meant to show the hawk's reflection and scare it off."

I too read about that on the internet and it said to put it in the hawk's flight path. I haven't tried it yet, was wondering where to get one at a local store maybe...let me know if it works. I'm trying dog food to attract crows who I read chase off hawks. I did see for the first time crows dive bombing a hawk yesterday. They chased him for awhile away from a shopping center I was in. Also saw 2 of what I believe were cattle egrets at the donut shop..they were standing on top of a car as it drove away and people were laughing.

aka Peggy, in regards to "Problems with raccoons are generally due to feeding by humans." We're not having any problems with them. I think it was just a little territorial dispute between baby and the big one.

and "the possum that entered through your cat door,"
I think it was the baby raccoon because the cat's water dish had dirty water and I've seen the raccoons put their hands in water dishes before and make the water dirty. I don't think the possums do that.

and "By putting food out for raccoons,"

I am not putting out dog food for the raccoons--it's for the crows and only out during the day when raccoons are sleeping. I am not putting cat food out at night anymore but that doesn't make any difference as the neighbors are. So the raccoons keep coming and there is nothing can be done about it. Neighbors trying to feed only the strays as they have heart for them and don't like it when the raccoons come but just put out more cat food so there's enough for everybody. Not my fault.

and "raccoons are VERY difficult to get rid of once they move in making it necessary to kill them. I don't think you want to do that, do you?"

No, I don't want the raccoons killed. Like I said, I'm not putting that food out at night and can't stop others around here from doing it. Some love wildlife, some don't. One neighbor doesn't as this one shoots fireworks into the trees in the yard to get rid of birds and set a trap recently and caught a very big raccoon and possum whom the wildlife people took away. Then I started seeing the baby raccoon alone all the time so I guess that was the mother. Made me feel real bad for the baby, don't you see? (Brings tears to my eyes just typing this). And the other night the poor baby was treed by a neighbor's pit bull and I ran over there and kept telling the raccoon to stop trying to come down out of the tree because he didn't know any better. He came down after the dog went inside and was o.k. I was so worried for him.

and "Because relocated raccoons may spread disease to the resident raccoon population and because they frequently cause other problems, it is recommended that live-trapped raccoons be humanely killed. In fact, in many regions of Florida it is now illegal to release live-trapped raccoons."

I feel so bad for them and was hoping that one that lady trapped was at least set free somewhere. It pains me to think it was put to sleep, leaving an orphan behind. Waaaaaaah.

and in regards to, "It's possible that you're doing these creatures a terrible disservice by luring them to their death. This includes the cats that you allow to roam freely. Raccoons have been known to attack cats and cats will surely kill your songbirds."

I'm not putting the food out at night, neighbors are and that's when the coons come out. Same regarding the cats. I have tried to rescure a couple of sick cats not too long ago but that's the only time have seen any during the day. There was one roaming the neighborhood a while back attacking other cats but it was called in and taken care of. Sometimes one has to be killed I guess, since there's no Animal Contol place that practices natural medicine (like homeopathic remedies, etc.) I wish they would open shelters that would do that. I guess it's too expensive or too much of an alternative medicine approach that's new and then there's nowhere to place so many cats as only so many get adopted. I feel sorry for the cats too. Some of the cats that come at night to neighbor's bowl of cat food belong to families around here who let them out at night. This practice is questionable as one of my aunt's cats came home with feline aids after going out every night and had to be put to sleep. Since then she doesn't let her cats go outdoors anymore. But did for many, many years without a problem before that. Another neighbor had their cat come home with bite marks after a night out and another time it got hurt. After expensive surgery, he's o.k. (they had him since he was a kitten). Lately they have been keeping him in at night as there had been another aggressive cat around harrassing him in his yard. Haven't seen that one lately though. My cat stays in at night since I found him standing on top of the chain link fence crying as an aggressive cat was terrorizing him from the ground below. And one night I saw a raccoon with his paw on a little kitten holding the kitten down and when I yelled it let go and the kitten ran away. I worry about the pregnant mom cat I've seen at night as there are coons around but with the last litter she had recently (not in my yard) 3 out of 4 survived and neighbor has the 3 which will soon be tame enough to be adopted. I wanted to rent a trap to get the mother inside where it would be safer to have her brood, but neighbor says it traumatizes cats to trap them and they try to hurt themselves as one of the kittens ran head first hard into a wall when it couldn't get out so I didn't get the trap. The mother looked at me last night and I just felt like, I want to help. What can I do? I was so worried for the last brood that I built a place in the yard just big enough for the kittens to get in so they could hide in there after seeing them pass through the yard and at that time I did put out food for them too though I really didn't need to as the neighbor puts plenty out. With that last brood, the raccoons and kittens were actually socializing with each other, eating together, getting along. I could hardly believe it but it was true. They were the baby raccoons I think because I had recently seen a family , a mother and 3 babies whom I watched for awhile after planting a couple of large Song of Jamaicas one night. I barely got done when the babies got curious and started coming over which scared me so I ran inside. They dug around the newly planted trees a bit, no problem though to fix. Never see cats going after birds around here. Never see cats during the day when birds are out. Just a few cats around at night and they don't bother anything.

Newjerseytea, don't worry. No more mention of anything other than plants from me on this forum as it causes too much disagreement.

What I mean by not mentioning anything other than plants is in regard to feeding birds and animals. I will report on what wildlife I see in my garden but there will be no mention of feeding them anything other than what grows in the ground. That should put an end to the problem. Perhaps I can find another forum to discuss other types of feeding. Thank you for your comments which made me much more aware of the impact of artificial feeding (feeding other than what's planted) and I will be very careful.

Jenney: It is okay to mention things like this. It is how people learn. Just because people disagree doesn't mean you shouldn't mention it. I think what you are seeing is frustration that people have that you refuse to see the truth and you continue to post things that sound as if you are doing works for you and not what is best for the animals. You seem like a sensitive soul. Wouldn't it bother you to think that something you are doing might be contributing to the death of the birds?

I think your goals are at odds. You are doing things to attract birds, yet you say you want to protect them. My feeling is that you feel bad for animals if you "see" them being attacked, but you are unaware of what is happening when you aren't there to protect them--like at night or when you aren't looking, etc.). If you truly care about the birds safety, the first step is to get stop artificially feeding wild animals dogfood, birdseed and other things that simply contribute to attracting other animals that will kill them.

Many predators are nocturnal. The cover of darkness makes it easier to stalk prey. Baby birds are killed mostly at night by cats, snakes and raccoons. If you attract those animals to your property, you will discourage the songbirds you are trying to attract. I was under the impression that you goal is to attract songbirds to your property. Artificial feeding is not the only way to do that nor is it the best way.

Vonyon, regarding "what is best for the animals."

You and others who are complaining are doing what you feel is in your best interest. You do not include certain animals on your list of protected ones. Why are you playing God?

Also, if it were so, so bad then why isn't it illegal?

and, "something you are doing might be contributing to the death of the birds?"

What about what you are doing that is contributing to the death of the cats and any other animal you deem less important? I smell hypocrisy.

and, "contribute to attracting other animals that will kill them."

What do you think happens when you plant a wildlife garden? Stop pointing the finger. When you point the finger at me, there's 3 pointing back at you.

Vonyon, I said "I will report on what wildlife I see in my garden but there will be no mention of feeding them anything other than what grows in the ground.."

This is not only my decision as the webmaster as well has requested, "Please remember that the Wildlide Garden forum is meant for those creating gardens hospitable to wildlife. Other dietary issues of wildlife are outsdide the scope of this forum."

jenney- hve you read on nature.net for birdwatchers? very interesting. i think you will like it. but, it gets pretty hot over there, as well. specifically, the cat topic. i have had a debate or 2 myself wiht those suggesting trapping and taking to animal shelter.
well, anywhere you go, when there is more than one person, there is going to be a disagreement about something. if i am already upset and something gets my ire, i will certainly post a little less rationally than i should be. in other words, i suggest the forum, but be wary.

Apparently there have been so many threads started lately on this topic, I have forgotten what this forum is about myself. My apologies. I quite prefer talking about gardening.

Jenney: I'm confused now. I have not decided that one animal is more important than the others. I thought it was you that was angry at the hawk? I'm confused as to how I'm contributing to the death of cats. What I am doing is replacing habitat that existed before we humans developed the land that my house is on. I am replacing bushes that are a natural food and shelter source for the animals. I am putting them in all areas of my yard so as not to concentrate the animals into one area. If the native shrubs existed here before, I'm not sure how I'm doing anything different than nature does on its own. When I plant bushes, I am also providing cover that gives them a place to roost in bad weather and to nest inconspicuously. I do not believe that I cannot protect anything from predators nor would I choose to. Predators serve an important function in the environment.

If you think that I am pointing the finger at you in any way, I am sorry. My intentions were to point out to you how your misguided actions are going to have a direct effect on the creatures you have pledged to "protect." The dogfood you are putting out is a giant predator McDonalds--something I thought you were trying to avoid. My posts are merely a well-intended effort to help you avoid the heartache you claim to abhor. Good luck to you.

Jenney,

Vonyon is much kinder than some of the folks you'll encounter on the birdwatchers forum.

I'm also confused by your post and had to read back over the thread to see if I missed something. I've learned so much from these forums but believe me, I've been slammed a few times along the way.

When I 1st decided to attract bluebirds to my yard, I had no idea what an awesome responsibility that was. Nesting bluebirds (and other birds) are often attacked by house sparrows, house wrens and raccoons. I was hurt when I was accused of luring bluebirds to their death by my actions. Yikes, I would never do that but....I was inadvertantly inviting bluebirds into wren territory. I was ignorant and I didn't do my homework beforehand, but I took my bluebird box down and then I went about reading everything I could find about BB's and their enemies. That was a few years ago and I had my 1st pair of nesting bluebirds this summer. Something ate one of the eggs but 3 fledged safely.

If we attract these innocent creatures for our pleasure, then we have to take the added responsibility of protecting them from predators. Otherwise let them be to fend for themselves. Our good intentions may sadly otherwise lead to their demise.

jenney- just listened to the red tail hawk recording. yep, ;that would be the call i was referring to, only coming out of a starling. they even do a similar one to the second call listed (first the link with the name of the bird, then the other one.) amazes me, and tricks me everytime.
another example of this is the loon. it has a wolf call taht sounds very much like a howl. very cool to hear.

Raccoons are big predators of songbird nestlings, and when you attract them, even if you don't mean to, you increase the loss of songbirds in your area.

Ironic but true.

Fairy toadmother, yes I went to the nature.net for birdwatchers forum and enjoyed reading some posts there. Glad you got to hear the starling recording. Haven't heard a loon...do you have a link for that? Was reading about the blue jays, how they can make the hawk sound to alert other jays and also to fool other birds.

Vonyon, regarding my post, "You and others who are complaining are doing what you feel is in your best interest. You do not include certain animals on your list of protected ones. Why are you playing God?...and "What about what you are doing that is contributing to the death of the cats and any other animal you deem less important? I smell hypocrisy. and "What do you think happens when you plant a wildlife garden? Stop pointing the finger. When you point the finger at me, there's 3 pointing back at you."

I apologize for this. I don't like to post when I'm upset as it doesn't come out proper and will try not to do that anymore. Please forgive me.

Jenney, I believe your heart is in the right place, and you are willing to have an open mind about what people are saying. I have learned a lot over the past few years at GardenWeb -- I used to have three cats who lived inside & outside, and I would never do that again, as I now realize the impact on birds. I have been envying you your selection of birds (you're in Florida, right?) as it is pretty quiet up here (Ottawa) now. Lots of Canada geese still heading south, and other than that, mostly blue jays, woodpeckers, grouse, & crows. When you mentioned loons, that sure is a call that is familiar to me from summers at our cottage as a kid. And the piliated (sp?) woodpecker also has a really distintive call. In the woods near our cabin there are coyotes, so the balance of nature is taken care of out of my sight, thankfully!

Peggy, Kudos to you for being responsible and doing some research before making a mistake that results in the death of a bird. The beauty of forums like this is that people have an opportunity to learn from the experiences of others.

I found out the hard way that even our well-meaning actions can have a huge impact (both good and bad) on the creatures in the environment. I thought I did my research, put a bird box up and ended up with a dead bird mother on a nest of destroyed eggs. After that, I came here. Unfortunately, a bird had to pay with her life first. That is not a good feeling. I'd rather have done nothing than have contributed to her death. I know I can't prevent the natural deaths of birds, but I don't want to contribute to giving a predator or competitor the upper hand. Now that I have begun to understand the bigger picture, I do not take these kind of decisions lightly. Hopefully, this thread will encourage others to do some research before making similar mistakes.

jenney- sorry that i didn't look for a link while i had speakers. but, when you hear it you will know!
i do sometimes limit my post due to time constraints (unfortunately).
i din't realize that about blue jays. hmmmm.

Jan, the link below has good pictures of some of the birds I see here. The grackles though look nicer than that one. Never saw the hummingbird, black vulture or shrike here. This morning I went to the window just in time to see a blue jay under the hibiscus tree with a peanut in his beak. I said hi and he flew over to the Janet Craig plant and deposited it there. It was still there this evening. I saw the tiniest baby woodpecker this morning on the oak tree pecking away. A couple of months ago I saw 2 or 3 babies in the other oak tree when I was on the roof, but they were bigger than this one. They are so cute. Looks just like the one in the picture. I never saw the red belly though. I guess it's hard to see. I'm going to try to find good links to the loon, grouse and pileated woodpecker. Do you hear the coyotes at all? I wonder what they sound like...

Here is a link that might be useful: Dartscape

i do love the sound of coyotes!!! it can be quite eerie at times, as well. it is amazing how 2 coyotes can sound like 20!!! whenever i hear them at work, i must! go outside for the full experience. if i am walking and hear them, i stop and listen. takes too much concentration to walk at the same time :) really, i stop because walking makes noise.

I've heard screeching in the back woods at night. It sounds like a baby screaming in pain or something--talk about eerie!! I've been told that the sound is that of a fishercat. Anyone know if that's true?

I don't know about what sound fishers make, but my husband saw one early in the morning in August, and he said it was incredibly powerful-looking, and scary -- he was happy to be IN the cabin watching! We hear coyotes in the summer, but we're not at the cabin as much now, and rarely overnight, so we miss that wildness from our lives! The first year we owned the property (2001) I'm absolutely sure I heard wolves (which is possible, since we're near the Winchester Bog, a large acreage of wetlands & bush) but I've never heard them since. The contrast from city to country is so great, and I can't help looking at squirrels and thinking how they'd be an easy supper to predators in the country -- they don't even run from dogs, and must not realize about dogs off leash.

Vonyon, here's some links and information on the Fisher cat--

Views From The Top - Forums - Fishers in the mist
http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-68.html
el-bagr
09-08-2003, 09:15 AM Here's an excerpt from the above site:
"One night camped out around Flagstaff Lake, we were awakened by the sounds of a horrible conflict. It sounded like two Tasmanian devils fighting right outside our camp. In the morning, we saw scuffmarks, porcupine quills and blood. Much speculation was had as to the victorious critter -- we knew it had to be fairly large. The next morning, as I got up at dawn, the mystery was solved: a large fisher slinked off away from the campsite through the woods. The combat sounded even "bigger" than the fisher, as big as it was (it looked like a fearsome foe even for a moderate-sized dog), which to me shows the fisher to be a powerful predator!"

Other links each containing additional info:

http://www.pusscats.com/Fisher_Cat.htm
Fisher Cat. Fisher Cat Definition, Information on the Fisher Cat ...
=================
http://home.mcn.net/~wtu/fisher.html
Wild Things Unlimited
-----------------
http://www.enature.com/fieldguide/showSpeciesGS.asp?sort=1&curGroupID=99&display=1&area=99&s
earchText=fishers&curPageNum=4&recnum=MA0033
Fisher
-------------------
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/Wildlife_profiles/profile_fisher.htm
Wildlife
--------------
http://www.pbase.com/falcon8826/fisher_cat
A Fisher Cat Photo Gallery by Daniel Keefe at pbase.com
---------------
http://www.backyardchickens.com/LC-FisherCat.html
BackyardChickens.com - Chicken coops, chicken pictures, all about ...
--------------------
http://gorp.away.com/gorp/activity/wildlife/expert/exp110100.htm
GORP - Fisher Cats
--------------------
http://dep.state.ct.us/burnatr/wildlife/factshts/fisher.htm
Fisher Fact Sheet Excerpt from the above link:
"Because fisher seldom travel in open areas and tend to be nocturnal, they are rarely seen by humans. They have not been studied as extensively as many other wildlife species because they are difficult to observe."..."Alert, secretive, and rarely found in high oncentrations, the fisher is a rewarding sight to the wildlife observer."
---------------
http://www.smalldog.com/newsarchive/kibbles_display.php?id=327
Kibbles & Bytes # 334: New Products In Stock, Top Dog Club ...
--------------
http://lsb.syr.edu/projects/cyberzoo/fisher.html
Fisher

Here is a link that might be useful: NH Fish and wildlife

Jenney: Thanks for the research. Those will take me a while to get through.

Jan, I have heard that they look like small bears. I had read years ago that they are feisty enough to tangle with a human when pushed. I have no idea if that is true or not. After reading all of Jenney's links, I'll let you know.

Well, it looks like there are loads of urban legends about fishers. It would seem that they are not nearly as large as I thought they were, but they do look a lot like a small bear. Here is a direct link to a picture of one. See what you think.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Fairy toadmother, regarding, "the loon. it has a wolf call taht sounds very much like a howl. very cool to hear."....yes indeed!!! Played it 5 times and it freaked all the birds out outside--I don't know what they thought it was but they all took off when I started playing it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bird Audio

Oh, and here's the pileated woodpecker. Great audio. I forget which hawk, I think it's the Cooper's that the red bellied woodpecker's call reminded me of. I'll have to go back and listen to that one again. I think it was the one that said the hawk had a nasal sound.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bird Audio

Yep, the red bellied woodpecker sounds like th coopers hawk and the blue jay sounds like the red shouldered hawk. Amazes me how some of the hawks sound so much like little birds singing. Others have a little bit of a screech in there.

So I suppose either the birds are imitating the hawks or vice versa for reasons of hunting on the part of the hawk and locating, protecting and just to fool other birds (to get to the food source perhaps?)

Here is a link that might be useful: Bird Audio

mmmmmmm! i must get some speakers!!! won't be anytime soon, though.
i love the sound of a woodpecker. many make a similar call at a different tempo(?) key (?) unless it is a flicker in the tree when youre trying to sleep. they can be a bit enthusiastic! :)

One of the links above was to enature home page but this was the more specific link directly to the fisher cat. The rest of the links are directly to the fisher cat articles. I haven't figured out how to get more than one link in a post to work by clicking on them. Still trying.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fisher

This particular link shows the fisher cat eating from feeders which I thought was unusual as they are so elusive and wild.
(Left click once on picture to enlarge it.)

Here is a link that might be useful: A Fisher Cat Photo Gallery by Daniel Keefe at pbase.com

thanks, jenney. now isn't that something! here, we only worry about starlings hogging it all. hey, birds gotta eat!

The hawks look bigger than ever. I haven't been able to see one close yet, and am wondering if they are eagles. The wing spans are huge! Two large ones overhead today. Drove down the street and there were a couple more flying over the road.
I made the call of the hawks out in the yard and it brought out 2 or 3 of them--the large ones that are a darker color. I don't know what they are. My imitation hawk call kept them circling away though. I guess they thought there was another hawk here.

The grackles are back along with some starlings and the doves come anyway. I think the grackles aggressive nature is rubbing off on the doves as they appear that way too now. They chase each other and compete at the feeder. I think it will help them learn to survive.

I counted 5 little green quaker parrots on the feeder yesterday and today. They like it when I fill it up being it's a large triple tube feeder that holds 8 pounds of seed and they hang on the perches too. The doves can only seem to fit 3 on the feeder but maybe they will figure out how to fit more from watching the parrots.

jenney, were the hawks flying close together? i get the impression of turkey vultures with your description. were they black? sometimes they look slightly grey on the underside of the wing feathers. also, they fly, glide with the wings V- shaped, and with a rocking motion.

aren't quaker parrots sweet-looking!

The hawks or whatever they are all look the same around this whole area, up to 3 or 4 miles west and up to 3 or 4 miles east of here. They are dark grey in color and I think across the tips of the wings they have a lighter color. I'll check again to be sure. They don't fly right next to each other. They circle around in small circles moving across the land together yet apart if you know what I mean. The wings are not V-shaped when they fly. They are more level. Sometimes they do tilt a bit from side to side, but very little. One that I was watching seemed to just hang in the air and I wondered how on earth he could do that as it seemed he wasn't moving at all. They fly very slowly too always looking down for prey I guess. I watch them fly over the yards like they are hunting and they do fly lower sometimes, but not low enough by me that I can see them well. The head looks like a hawk from a distance, but it might be an eagle...yet there couldn't possibly be that many eagles around here. So it probably is a hawk. The older ones turn dark grey, right? But the wing span is so much greater than that young brown and white one I saw in the yard before.

Well, I got my good camera out and have to get some batteries but I am hoping to get good pictures with it. I'm not really sure how to use it as I bought it from an individual. It's an Olympus with a zoom lens and is kind of heavy.

Those little green quaker parrots are the cutest! They are very hungry too but as I watched the bird seed levels going down I thought, it's o.k., have all you want. I'll take care of you. One was standing on top of the feeder and the others were perched all around it. I was going to get my disposable digital camera and try again to take their picture but I forgot. Yesterday I tried but when I got 6 to 9 feet away which is what the camera states to do, they flew away.

The doves were actually sitting on top of each other today eating at the feeder. I guess they can't figure out how to hang on the perches. Some of them should be able to as some were smaller in size.

you know you are very lucky. the only time i have seen quakers was in the pet trade.

still sounds like a turkey vulture to me. SOMETIMES the v is not obvious from certain angles, especialy if they are high. also, they are the only ones i know that tilt/rock, but i could be wrong. sometimes i can mistake an immature bald eagle for a turkey vulture because of the head. on both, the head and neck extend more than a hawk's.

curiosity is killing me!!

Quaker parrot rehabbers and adopters seem to love these parrots. Some cute pictures of them too. They are also known as Monk Parakeets.

Here is a link that might be useful: THE COMMITTEES

Jenney, those do sound like turkey vultures. Hawks generally hunt alone unless there is a pair courting each other. The feathers on the wings are generally spread out toward the end and you can barely see a head on them when you look up at them. That is because they have that crooked neck. They are darn big birds, close in size to an eagle. The wing span averages about 5 1/2 feet. Usually, I don't get that close a look at them, so I can't make out the beak very clearly. I wonder if they are coming around because they think a hawk has gotten something and they are waiting for the spoils. They eat the leftovers. Here is a website where you can see them from underneath.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vulture Identification

thanks for the link! enna's pic is soooo adorable!

The view from down under is the same as the turkey vulture in the link on some of the ones I've seen. Others don't have the broad lighter color band at the wing tips. I'd venture to say that those are the hawks or eagles. I'm checking into better binoculars...I found a better pair but they actually hurt my eyes trying to adjust them so I didn't get them. I'll have to look around for some. I just can't get a good look at the head with these new ones, though they bring shorter distances in well.

I saw a turkey vulture yesterday fly low over the yard. It was so close I could see the red head. I've never seen one that close. Wow!

Jenney, Just found this picture on another GW member's page. These are some great pics up close and when soaring.

Here is a link that might be useful: Turkey Vultures

Good pictures vonyon.

Today a couple of streets away there were some flying around in circles and low over yards. I heard some kids shouting as I passed by and they were counting them...I heard them as I passed by, "13! 14! 15, wow! I counted 15 of them!" one of them shouted..

The white blocks on the underside of the wings are not always that obvious, either. If the light is right they will appear all black. Black vultures are similar to turkey vultures but the tail is shorter and they are smaller, and if my steel trap memory (har har) serves me correctly they are much more aggressive.
But I will have to go back and check on your location to know if you would even have blacks.....
Seeing groups of 15 or more tvs is not a big thing here where we live, but recently while on a trip to Texas we spotted a real spectacle: a huge "stack" of tvs rising up on a thermal in the late morning. I could not count them all but there were easily over a hundred birds in that flock. Must have been a dead cow or something to draw that many birds in!!!

I saw some blackbirds flying around hasselling a small hawk not much bigger than they are!!!