I am in a warmer zone, a few miles from the Atlantic in zone 7. Hamamelis 'Robert' has been in bloom for about 3 weeks, despite the brutal temps. of last week. I am trying to get a H. virginiana 'Harvest Moon' that is supposed to bloom in the Fall into Winter. I also have trouble deciphering which blooms earliest, among the commonly offered hybrids.

Hi bogturtle, I wasn't sure anyone was reading lol. I also emailed Fairweather Gardens and Rare Find Nursery, both of whom also responded right away... They both have the orange and red varieties blooming now, even Jelena - up in Jackson, NJ. I've relaxed trying to get an earlier bloom variety, and decided to concentrate on just getting a good large yellow flowered fragrant variety. The chinese mollis' are typically mid January, but even earlier are the native Ozark vernal witch hazels, in mild winters starting at Christmas, the flowers on them are very small, but are abundant and fragrant. But bloom time is going to differ every year anyway, no matter what the variety I've been led to believe now.

Ah, yes, 'Harvest Moon', this is the autumn native witch hazel- H.virginiana, one I'm contemplating also, it is supposed to loose it leaves before bloom! Fairweather Gardens is carrying it this year. I have the straight H. virginiana, it is typically the root stock for the grafted plants, and while I had a great bloom on it this fall, one cannot help but long for a leafless show.
Do you grow any other Hamamelis, besides 'Robert' ?

Maybe the break in the weather that's coming for the next couple days will speed up my 'Jelena's bloom.

Here's my Hamamelis virginiana in bloom last autumn

I have H.'Jelena', 'Arnold Promise' and 'Diane', along with 'Robert'. They are from various places but Rarefind is my favorite nursery and they have gotten themselves an unusually large number of beautiful little witchhazels for sale. I am close enough to drive there, so I will ask them for early bloomers. They also are listing 'Harvest Moon', but I expect, when I visit, they may, already, have sold out of it.

Bog, this was Rare Find's response to me, as to what is blooming right now in their garden
' Yes, we have several witch hazels in bloom right now, among them Orange peel, a very nice orange, Jelena, Antoine Kort and Diane; probably a number of others, but those are the ones that come to mind.
Thanks, Anne @RFN '

Fairweather has lots of Hamamelis too-

I read your blog , we grow a lot of the same plants, although no osmanthus like yours, only the variegated 'Goshinko'. A tip for you on the asters...pinch them back, even cut back by half, until the 4th of July. Then they won't get as tall and flop, and bloom will be heavy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fairweather Gardens

>I'm heavily considering 'Barmstedt Gold', available from Fairweather GardensChris Lane, WITCH HAZELS (2005, Timber Press, Portland/Cambridge) says

"This is a superb cultivar, the best in its colour group, standing out in the landscape from a considerable distance"

>Any other suggestions?Lane's "Gardener's Selection" (all forms of H. x intermedia) is

'Angelly'
'Aphrodite'
'Arnold Promise'
'Aurora'
'Barmstedt Gold'
'Diane'
'Frederic'
'Gingerbread'
'Glowing Embers'
'Harry'
'Jelena'
'Livia'
'Orange Peel'
'Pallida'
'Ripe Corn'
'Robert'
'Rubin'
'Sunburst'
'Vesna'
'Imperialis'
'Jermyns Gold'
'Wisley Supreme'

Hi bboy, thanks for the input. I have not picked up his book, one reason, the author being British, he does not cover specific witch hazel bloom information for the USA, unless I'm incorrect.
One facet of witch hazels that is somewhat important to me, is reliable leaf drop in autumn, so as not detract from the bloom in late winter. In 2007 I was able to obtain the variety 'Princeton Gold', not currently on the market. It has shown reliable leaf drop, studied by a friend gardener during at least one winter at Morris Arboretum, near Phila., where there are a number of them planted, along with many other varieties of Hamamelis. This past autumn though, my young plant did not shed all leaves, held on to approximately a third of them. I'm thinking that bloom time and leaf retention issues are all variable with conditions in our individual locales.

He mentions information from T. Brotzman and perhaps other Americans in the text, and his bibliography lists numerous American publications. I wouldn't assume such a book was Eurocentric just because it was written by a British author, without looking at it first. Another problem with taking that approach is that British gardening books tend to be better than American ones. And many narrow focus subjects (such as witch hazels) have been covered in depth by British authors but not American ones. So if you are going to use titles written here only, you are going to miss a lot.

There are just not enough people growing them over here... Great, I'll pick that up sometime soon - I'll be looking forward to Tim's input. Thanks!

It must be an east coast thing, as they are pretty common here in the PNW and with a number of growers/suppliers. And you can find a rather nice selection if you put some effort into it :-)

Blooming in my garden right now are x intermedia 'Ruby Glow' and vernalis 'Sandra'. Vernalis 'Purpurea' was a bit earlier and is just going over. I'd have more, but not enough room :-)

And re: the leaf retention......IME, vernalis is not nearly as inclined to hold old foliage as is mollis or x intermedia, but either way, I don't think it is much of a qualifier. Just make leaf removal part of your late fall clean up!

In your area, I'd look at Rare Find Nursery......they have a great selection.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rare Find's witch hazels

It's not hard to find witchhazels for sale 'round here, it's hard to find people growing them, other than Longwood Gardens, Scott Arboretum, Morris Arb., etc. There are a few enlightened growing them, that are neighbors of these gardens, but everywhere else it's a blank slate in winter. So many properties have nothing to look at in winter.

Rare Find is also having an open house on Valentine's Day from 10-4. Here's info. from their email to me.

WHAT'S THE EVENT? -- RareFind Nursery's First Annual Witch Hazel (Hamamelis) Festival

WHEN? -- Saturday, February 14, 2009, 10 AM TO 4 PM

WHY? -- See Bloom in February, and fragrance too! We expect 15 or so of the 36 named cultivars we carry to be in bloom in our 100 foot plastic covered cold house.

We carry more Witch Hazels than any other retail nursery that you can actually visit at this time of year -- the height of the Witch Hazel season. Some cultivars will be old standards, and others will be cutting edge, new plants.

You can pick your favorites and we will store them until you are ready, or take them with you. Or you can just come to look and be able to tell your friends you were out gazing at flowers in February.

We also will have a continuous digital slide presentation running in our heated barn -- along with coffee and bagels. Our Witch Hazel experts will be available to answer questions and make recommendations.

SNOW DATE: Saturday, February 21, 2009
DIRECTIONS: Click here for directions

Call us at 732-833-0613 with any questions.

View All of RareFind Nursery's Hamamelis

RareFind Nursery Inc.
957 Patterson Road, Jackson, NJ 08527

Getting people back there to break out of sameness in planting probably isn't helped too much by frigid winters, torrid summers, and epidemic bugs and blights. That's why British garden plant books are seen as irrelevant, the conditions are too different.

J. Sabuco wrote THE BEST OF THE HARDIEST in order to encourage gardeners in cold climates to try something other than Pfitzer junipers etc. (he wrote from Illinois, where his garden featured broad-leaved evergreens such as Oregon grape and hardy rhododendrons).

Local friends traveling in the East came back to report that redbuds were ubiquitous. Another was surprised by the universality of formal clipping and layouts.

It's not a paradise of varied and imaginative planting here either, although some Seattle neighborhoods may recently have one or two exuberant hobby gardens spilling out onto the parking strips - the rest very decidedly "yards" (60% of residences being rentals doesn't help). And "maintenance shearing" of commercial properties in particular seems to have increased markedly in recent years, rather than having been stamped out by organized efforts to show another way. Ever seen a square rhododendron or a perfectly spherical pieris?

Even in Britain with its thousands of fine gardens "Great and Small" the dominant landscape outside of towns and cities is pastoral, miles and miles of grass with a scattering of trees and woodlands. Many dwellings seen while driving have only grass with perhaps a few conifers such as forms of Lawson cypress, with perhaps the dramatic departure of numerous Leyland cypress hedges since I was there in the 1990's. An enthusiast like Lane might be able to dazzle visitors with a collection featuring every witch hazel he can get but not a single other plant may be seen on the trip home afterward.

60% of residences being rentals doesn't help

bboy, where DO you get these statistics? According to current local real estate stats, owner-occupied SFR's within the city are 49% of the approximate total of 150K housing units, rentals constitute 46% and vacancies another 5%. And that includes condominiums and townhouses which make up approximately a third of the total units and generally have no or minimal property to create a 'yard'. Implying that freestanding single family residences in Seattle are predominately 'rental units' and therefore with unkempt or otherwise neglected gardens or landscaping is quite misleading and inaccurate.

And neighborhoods with "one or two" hobby gardeners? Have you driven around any neighborhoods at all lately? Like Greenwood, Magnolia, Wallingford, Madison Park, Laurelhurst or West Seattle? The 'one or two' are much more likely to be those that have minimal landscaping or at best, the plain jane generics of the rental units, than those with creative or exuberant hobby gardens. Many of the in-city neighborhoods tend to have very actively gardening homeowners (or landscaping services) and their properties reflect that. So does the activity at in-city nurseries and garden centers, which are still able to maintain decent sales figures even in a tough economy.

I think you are a bit out of touch.

So, I had it flipped: the 40% is the rentals, instead of the 60%. Doesn't change the basic point at all: about half are rentals.

And a major portion of those rentals are NOT free standing SFR's, but condos and the like, with no gardenable real estate associated. I think that changes the point significantly.

Another one of your "you are full of crap" posts. I know what the facts are.

well anyway... my 'Jelena' has finally started blooming. I wish more people would plant witchhazels..they're not hard to grow. Who wouldn't want to look at this in their yard now??

bboy, if you do indeed know what the facts are, then please refer to them accurately. And if the shoe fits.......

paula, your 'Jelena' is lovely. We have had a light dusting of snow as well in the last couple of days (mostly gone now) and my 'Ruby Glow' also looked great in contrast against the white background. The individual petals are a bit shorter than 'Jelena's so it's not quite as showy but still a great color. And while these are not the most common of shrubs around here, you do see them scattered through gardens in various neighborhoods. Of course, they are most noticeable now when in bloom - they tend to disappear into the background the rest of the season :-) And local nurseries tend to sell out of them pretty rapidly during bloom time - they're hard to resist.

Paula the Hamamelis virginiana pics are really nice.

I attended the Rare Finds Hamamelis event. They had a slew of cultivars in flower and available. Their resident guru gave a very informative presentation. There was quite a crowd of eager gardeners getting a pre-spring fix.

Here is a link that might be useful: 2 pics from Rare Finds

Excellent picture of the Wisley Supreme herman!

I called Rare Find around 4 on Saturday to find out if I could come this week as I was too busy to attend the Open House. I plan to go this Friday. The owner sounded happy, about 100 people +/- attended, and almost all the witch hazels are in bloom.

Did you find a favorite? Did you see one with the largest flowers?

Paula so many of the Hamamelis were stunning. They had X itermedia 'Aphrodite' a plant I've coveted for a while.

The brilliant flowers on some of the yellows was astonishing.

While I was there I grabbed an Enkianthus campanulatus 'Sikokianus' and Acer palmatum 'Shigitatsu sawa' both were large sturdy plants.

Being there was a lot like visiting Fairweather on an open house day, very similar feeling operations. The speaker who gave a presentation on Hamamelis talked about varieies that are not seen much but still desirable. He mentioned 'Princeton Gold' which is a plant that I found at Fairweather years ago and grew in my Cape May garden.

Good for you... so did you also buy an Aphrodite?

Who was the speaker? I wonder why there was no name mentioned in the email ?

I was at a lecture a few years ago in Delaware with Michael Buffin of England. He also named his (current) favorite of Aphrodite.

Now I'm leaning towards a 'Primavera', they're doing wonderfully at Longwood right now. It is resistant to blight currently attacking 'Arnold Promise' and 'Pallida', both of which are not doing well, in fact the older 'Pallida' in front of the Dupont house is now gone.

I know I'm going to have a hard time selecting when I go to Rare Find on Friday.

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Winter Flowering Shrubs'

>bboy, if you do indeed know what the facts are, then please refer to them accurately. And if the shoe fits....... It doesn't.

No Paula I passed on 'Aphrodite'. I don't really have a great spot for it.

I agree you'll have a tough time at Rare Finds. Besides the Hamamelis there are loads of nice plants and a few good deals too.

Report back with your impressions and purchases.

Profuse, luminous flowering of 'Sunburst' seen at a local garden center this year continues to impress me. Looks much better in bloom than the other cultivars on display there at this time. I see however that Chris Lane says

"It is outstanding for its large yellow flowers but unfortunately suffers from interveinal necrosis on the leaves, some years hardly affected, others more so. Also retains dead leaves in winter, but grows out of this habit with age....Received two stars in the Royal Boskoop Horticultural Society trial in 2002, almost certainly downgraded because of the foliage problem"

I have a used copy of Chris' book on it's way.

It's quite a nice little production.

And by the way: I meant to say "one or two hobby gardens spilling out onto the curb per block".

In certain neighborhoods, anyway. Others you can cover the whole district and hardly see anything remarkable.

Anywhere USA is definitely the prevailing general style, same as with commercial development.

And I have covered whole districts on foot and by car.

Alrightee... after some selection thought before, and after my arrival, I selected x intermedia 'Primavera'. wahooo

A nice 4' one that did not get sold the previous weekend, along with one other, same size, were in front of the office. I at first thought they were sold. After seeing the whole inventory in the hoop house, 95% were 18-24". All the selections showing on their website, only one variety 'Moonlight' being sold out. A lot were bloom, although sparse, being young. It was very cold, below freezing and windy so I didn't linger long or take pictures...sorry. I had decided that I want a large plant as I'm plagued by deer and rabbits, at least I could help eliminate the rabbit problem by buying bigger. The whole way home, after the fast food smell dissipated ;-), I was treated to the flowers uncrinkling and releasing their fragrance.

I almost selected the 1 large remaining 'Wisley Supreme', (there were 4 other large ones sold) which was the same size as the 'Primavera', but decided to go with my gut feeling, since they grow so well at Longwood, 15 minutes from me, and growing right alongside 'Arnold Promise, and they're not being affected by the blight.

Saturday the book arrived and I've pretty much read it all, excluding details on every cultivar. Nice pictures, plenty of information, quite a work as you say bboy. Ah, if I ever get to England.... or even Ohio actually, maybe I could see where my 'Princeton Gold' came from!

The Phyllosticta hamamelidis affecting the northeast cultivars, known at the moment to be 'Arnold Promise' and 'Pallida' were mentioned in an article in American Nurseryman magazine in 2007. 'Pallida' unfortuneately had just been put on the PHS Gold Medal list, I suppose hedging on that is occurring. Here's a link for partial article coverage. Bboy if you subscribe, perhaps you could post the remaining?

Rare Find told me they'd probably expand the open house next year to 2 days. I'm already planning my next purchase.

now from the family room

Here is a link that might be useful: American Nurseryman article

Read, carefully, most of the entries, and much appreciated the beautiful photos. Had heard that rabbits might,in Winter desperation,gnaw the bark of witch-hazels, near ground level. Especially if there is a thick blanket of snow. Have had no deep blanket of snow and no attacks on the Hamamelis, but have used terrible smelling spray. Cannot guarantee it. Without diligent use of the spray, or wire fencing, I have had other rather uncommon plants totalled, sometimes in one night. The rabbits leave their footprints in what little snow we have had.

Ditto here bogturtle...I lost two small clethras I planted in the fall, chewed down to a nub. Dumb me, forgot to cage them. They also chewed a couple Fothergillas nearby. They left them alone last year, but, that was last year. :-(
They haven't hit my small Princeton Gold... the deer chewed off the blossoms the first year, but haven't since.
I spray also, diligent usually, vary the concoction, so they don't get accustomed. Fencing would be difficult.

So paula your pictures are of 'Primavera'?

yep

On February 8th, bboy wrote the following: "Even in Britain with its thousands of fine gardens "Great and Small" the dominant landscape outside of towns and cities is pastoral, miles and miles of grass with a scattering of trees and woodlands. Many dwellings seen while driving have only grass with perhaps a few conifers such as forms of Lawson cypress, with perhaps the dramatic departure of numerous Leyland cypress hedges since I was there in the 1990's. An enthusiast like Lane might be able to dazzle visitors with a collection featuring every witch hazel he can get but not a single other plant may be seen on the trip home afterward."

As someone who has been a UK citizen for all of my 34 years, I think I have the floor when absurd things like this are written. How much time have you spent in the UK? And how much of the UK have you actually covered? As an Englishman, I can tell you that I have travelled around the UK extensively, and what you have written is generalised rubbish. I have no problem with you saying what you saw, but please don't generalise. Nearly everything you 'saw' depends on your whereabouts in the UK, and what you saw is not 'usual'. I guess though after spending a bit of time in the UK, you must know it all. You must take those blinkers off, bboy, wearing them leads to you making a fool of yourself.

London to Cornwall and Devon, and up to where Blooms are in Bressingham. Hillier Arboretum, Westonbirt Arboretum, Graham Rice's place, another hellebore specialist out in the country, Rosemoor Garden in Devon, Heligan Garden, Kew etc. - and all the driving between.

Thousands of hours with nose stuck in English gardening books, and watching BBC and other television programs with views of English countryside.

Talks here by visiting English garden luminaries like Christopher Lloyd and Adrian Bloom, the latter showing slides of the place where he started with the common all-grass front yard and put in a display of dwarf conifers etc. - preceded by the comment "At least people here (Seattle) plant something".

At Heligan you can be inside a lushly planted woodland ravine or standing in open fields that go for miles depending on which part of a 3' distance you plant your feet in.

Here it's not as polarized, which is what Bloom was exclaiming. Non-gardeners here do at least some "landscaping" of their "yards".

I had a feeling you would reply with experiences of time in the southwest UK, which although has its fair share of pastoral land due to it not being much good for anything else other than dairy farming, it still isn't representative of the situation in the UK. If you explored the whole of the UK thoroughly (which you clearly haven't done), you would soon realise that there is a lot more arable land than pastoral. You covered a very small part of the UK. The driving to and from is largely irrelevant because you almost certainly wouldn't have driven through housing estates where generally, people do make an effort to grow a wide variety in their gardens.

Adrian Bloom's comments are completely contradictory; if the situation was as he has implied and that such a large number of homeowners planted dwarf conifers, etc. and little else, he would never have been able to build up such a large, successful horticultural business!

I'm a little surprised that you've still got the front to imply that you know what you're talking about, especially as you're having the discussion with me, someone who is entrenched in the horticultural industry and more importantly, is and has been an extremely well travelled UK citizen for 34 years. I know more about my own country than most UK residents, let alone a foreign visitor who has spent a very limited time here.

One more thing; please don't imply that Graham Rice is a hellebore specialist. It's an insult to those of us who are actually hellebore specialists and do know what we are talking about. It's only when you really know what you are talking about that you realise how much bull**** is written about so many subjects. I've studied hellebores in the wild for eight years, making some 14 trips to the Balkans in the process. Graham Rice has made no trips and simply regurgitates information gleaned from the real experts. Nothing personal towards you; just wanted to make that point.

Valley Garden in Windsor Great Park, RHS Garden Wisley, private gardens in Surrey and elsewhere...

You've still only scratched the surface; the UK has a population of around sixty million and many people live on built up housing estates, where landscaping is extremely popular.

You've not really made your point at all; watching programmes on the BBC and reading books is all very well and will tell you a little about the subject, but like I said in my last post, it's only when you really know about something due to first hand experience that you are able and qualified to comment on said subject. Anything media based is not considered first hand experience; there is always an agenda. With the BBC gardening program, that agenda is to promote the next range of plants to appear in the large range of faceless garden centres which will be overpriced all because they carry 'BBC Gardener's World' plant tags. Same with the 'Gardener's World' magazine; literary pap written for the idiot masses.

You're obviously not to going listen to anything I have to say. I do wonder if ignorance is a skill you have to work hard at, or whether it is something you have natural flair for. You remind me of the worst kind of American (and before anyone shouts, I have plenty of very close American friends and I'm sure that they would agree here); if they happen to be abroad in the same part of the world as me, they always seem to be able to make their presence known. I was in Dubrovnik last year and the place was full of them; loud and ignorant.

You stick to what you think you know about the UK, and, as someone who lives here, I'll stick to the facts.

Tim,

Put that cranky arrogance in your blowhole.

Herman, big words from a sh1t for brains; if you ever need reminding why Americans are generally the most hated people on Earth, refer back to the rubbish you've written.

I'm damn well entitled to be arrogant about my knowledge of the UK, hellebores and cyclamen. I assure you I know more about any of those subjects than any American on this excuse for a forum.

Spectacular display of your intelligence, Herman. Well done, gold stars all round. You can be proud.

Well, I think that's my time on this website done...

Alright, that's it.

This is an announcement to everyone wishing to post discussion other than about witch hazels. Take your comments over to the Hot Topics forum. Have a blast.

"...on this excuse for a forum" ???

tim m, I do hope your time on this website is done. Thanks so much for hijacking and taking your rude bow on my 'ignorant' thread. Indeed, you've been a member since 2001, what took you so friggin' long to decide to leave if you hate us so much. All of 34 eh? Your lack of wisdom unattained as yet is evident.

Paula, Really you say how rude Tim has been but you should listen to yourself. I do know of Tim and he does have an extensive knowledge of plants and does live in the UK. I also live in the Uk and would have to agree with some of his comments to bboy and how you cant get a complete picture of flora around the Uk from just a few visits. Also the places that he has visited are geared up to look like an english garden with lots of lawn but this is not typical of most english gardens. which you would be able to experience if you were able to look deeper into every day gardens. Hopefully you will be able to read this and not start a personal attack on me as you have done tim.

It appears this thread has the attention of some more english gardeners.

I did not invite, or initiate the rude language started by tim m. I am simply responding to him with same.

willow, I have no complaint against you or anyone, and welcome information relative to the thread title.

As I had stated earlier, I hope to get to England someday. I never made any comment here, or anywhere, about the gardens of England. Don't associate any comments made in this thread with me because I did not initiate them.

No problem, Paula; glad you have an appreciation for my hijacking of your thread.

You posted the following: "Indeed, you've been a member since 2001, what took you so friggin' long to decide to leave if you hate us so much. All of 34 eh? Your lack of wisdom unattained as yet is evident."

Clearly you lack the intelligence to read and then understand what I wrote in my posts. Who do I hate, Paula? It's a fact that many Americans abroad make their presence known in a crass fashion. Saying that doesn't mean I hate all of you. As I said, some of my closest friends are American. Why have you asked why it's taken me so long to leave? Are you that stupid, Paula? I would have thought that it's obvious that my decision was swayed by the bull**** written by bboy and his self-belief that he actually knows what he's talking about. Yep, I'm 34 years old; can one not have wisdom at that age? I know plenty of much older people who are not wise. You know very little about me, so by making that judgement, it may well be YOU who has picked up no wisdom along the way, otherwise you would know better than to say such a thing. Amazing that you can judge based on a few posts. You must be a magician.

One more thing, Paula, just to make sure my posts have the same consistent tone..... fcuk off with the other two morons who have replied to me. Offensive enough for you?

One last thing (honestly). Paula, you wrote the following: "Indeed, you've been a member since 2001, what took you so friggin' long to decide to leave if you hate us so much."

I just wanted to point out that you should have ended that sentence with a question mark, as you were asking me a question. It is annoying when text is not grammatically correct... :-)

Tim,

Control yourself. Posting childish, vitriolic nonsense only makes readers snicker and pity you. Listen to yourself. You sound like a flaccid, old queen.

....yes, and it was supposed to be his last post, darn it.

Wisdom in dealing with people, and conflict, is lacking. How immature. Now he's nitpicking over grammar.

I never cared who was correct, tim m or bboy, it doesn't matter. The tone of the discussions downgraded rapidly, this is now a war across the pond, over something that cannot be proved either way on a forum. The discussion didn't even pertain to the thread at hand.

I'm done. Further insults directed at me, us Americans, whatever, will be ignored on my part.

For a list of Hamamelis currently on the market in Britain (most will be available in North America as well) and getting top honors from the RHS...

Here is a link that might be useful: RHS Plant Finder