that depends upon how you want to garden. if you want to garden in harmony with nature then you should try to minimize all artificial inputs including water, by selecting the plants that grow in the conditions that you have rather than creating conditions to grow the plants that you want to have.

some people do add alot water to propogate specific plants. it just depends upon their philosphy.

if you have some particular plants that you would like to grow that need alot of water perhaps you would consider a rain garden. find a low spot or create one and then direct rain water from your roof to that area...if you do an internet search for "rain garden" there is tons of information out there.

joepye... while in theory i agree with you, in reality it doesn't always work that way. otherwise, why would we all be adding compost to our soil? granted, that's an improvement of an already existing condition, but an alteration nonetheless. so in some ways, i find the philosophy of minimizing artificial inputs (which, if you include water must then also include compost) to be unrealistic. that does not mean i will try to grow roses and sunflowers in my shaded patio, i understand the conditions and limitations of shade and i'm perfectly happy with that. and at any rate, i live in new york city, so i think any "natural" conditions conducive to growing plants have long since been bulldozed away! here, it's all about adding artificial inputs to make things grow. but thanks for your words, it is a good debate.

My property has sandy well drained soil. I use a liner with holes punched around 4" from the top and amended soil to make a wet shady area for my Platanthera psycodes, primroses, and lobelia. I also have an artificial bog that stays really wet all the time in full sun.

I think you're both right, right plant for the right site is best, but not always do-able/desirable.

we add compost to make things grow because we are growing non-native things in unnatural conditions. the soil is not feeding itself to sustain life - so we have to feed it. i have some turf grass lawn that needs continual addition of inputs. i wish i didnt have to maintain a lawn but its expected where i live and does serve some purposes. i do maintain lawn as a border between my yard and the neighbors yard. this lawn needs mowing and needs compost and fertilizer. its a non-native plant growing in an unnatural condition. i do use organic inputs to minimize the impacts - the same would be true for vegetable gardens and rose gardens etc. in order to grow many vegetables, turf grass and roses we have to add nutrients because of the way we grow them.

i also grow alot of native plants in a natural type setting. The natives thrive in the soil and climate that exists. They do not need additional organic matter or water or compost. (with one exception, i do water first year seedlings)

woodland gardening can be "au natural" using natives and adding little if any inputs. or woodland gardening can be more formal using select plants, mulch and fertilizer, etc ... the amount of input you need to do depends upon your philosophy...which depends upon your goals as to the type of look you are trying achieve.

in my home i have different types of plantings...some are more formal - they are mulched, weeded and manicured. but i also have many "au natural" plantings are left to grow, are unweeded, unmulched, and very little is done except to hand pull invasive weeds and set it on fire once in awhile...

joepyeweed... i hope you didn't take any offense in my previous post, i meant it very sincerely and think it's a useful discussion. like you, i am a very avid supporter of using true regional native plants when at all possible, woodland or otherwise. i even cringe a bit when thinking about all the genetically modified cultivars.

however, i still believe that most of the soil around us is hardly in its natural condition, especially around houses in a new development. i guess for me, it didn't necessarily mean, "what could grow here with these conditions?" that i took upon in your argument, but the larger idea that what we have here and live upon and grow with is somehow unadulterated.

and although i'm not a relativist, i do think it's slightly different for me. i live in new york city. the natural conditions you speak of hardly exist here behind my apartment building. heck, even most parts of central park are no longer natural. so in my attempts to re-create a woodland setting (which is not the natural condition that currently exists, but the one i am trying to get back to) i have no choice but to amend the soil and add artificial inputs such as compost.

at any rate, i'm still up in the air about lobelia cardinals (my favorite wet perennial) but beauty may prove to be too powerful than lack of a stream or bog!! :)

I hear ya Spmimi,

My brother has a "garden" apartment in Park Slope on Caroll between 6th and 7th. It is mostly paved with a few cracks created by the roots of an enormous norway maple which is the only living thing in his "yard". It would be next to impossible to garden that site in any way that is close to what was once indigenous, regardless of philosophy.

He has still managed to make it into his own little oasis with a few simple low maintenace containers and by bringing out his houseplants in the nice weather. Sometimes you find your style or philosophy, sometimes it finds you.

To get back to your original question (which the folks in the Mulch, soil, compost forum probably could add to) it is absolutely possible to alter your moisture situation. I can think of at least six ways to do it: 1. Reroute drainage (careful with this - might need a profesisonal if it is a big change) 2. Alter the soil with compost so it retains more moisture 3. Put a barrier under the soil so it doesn't drain (KWood's description) 4. Add water crystals to the soil. 5. Water it more often 6. Use a whiskey barrel aboveground as your "bog"

In general, it is better to amend your soil than to just water more often. Long term solutions are usually more appealing than short-term ones.

kwoods - what a coincidence! i live only about 1 block away from your brother!! this is the first summer in my first garden apartment and i am soooo excited!! let him know that if he ever wants to meet his neurotic neighboring gardeners or a BBG buddy, my husband and i are more than happy!

susan - thanks for your thoughtful post. i have three basic sections to plant. i've decided that two will be "natural" conditions with mainly native plants (hostas are just to easy to use) and the third will be my "unnatural" wet area for turk's cap and lobelia. it will have lots of compost and hopefully it will work! or joepye can rightly say "told you so!! :)

i didnt mean to imply that you couldnt create an unnatural wet spot for certain plants... i have created a small rain garden in my yard. i guess my point was - that to try not to add water from the hose...but let mother nature water it...from the roof.