Hello.

That's an awesome idea but maybe a little unrealistic. I am no expert but have had a little experience with VA bluebells (Mertensia virginica). First of all, they are a little difficult to grow from seed. I think they mainly spread by means of tubers...you can divide these and spread them that way. I think that it can take years to establish a "carpet" of bluebells...given the right conditions they seem to multiply fairly rapidly but I still think you're looking at a few years! Maybe you could downsize the patch idea a little and incorporate some other species? Deer don't seem much interested in black or blue cohosh and they don't go for rues. The timing of the flowers is a little more difficult....my bluebells seem to flower through to the end of May and by that time a whole bunch of other perennials are flowering so I think it would be tricky to have the bluebells flowering by themselves.

As for deer I can assure you they will not touch VA bluebells! So no need to distract them from these! Your idea of having a field of munchies for the deer is a good one....however, if there is a well trodden deer trail through your bluebell carpet and there are plants there that are edible (just about ANYTHING) they will chew them...they don't even really need to be hungry....chewing plants for deer is like people chewing their nails...I have a number of deer trails through my property and almost everything along the trail is stunted....the deer just never stop nibbling.

This post was edited by adidas on Mon, May 19, 14 at 21:26

Also I think that Virginia bluebells want rather moist conditions and it's hard to tell from your picture if your area is so moist.

Thank you both for your input and i really appreciate the first hand experience. I also agree all to well with your assessment of the deer. This is a very rural property a little over 40-acre in size so it is going to be a struggle but the plan is to stick to "deer resistant" plants except for a couple of acres of fields planted with "deer magnets" like clover, legumes and winter rye to hopefully keep them fed enough so they have no need to raid the less palatable plants for survival.

I agree that the site looks dry in the photo but that photo was taken immediately after 20 years of downed branches and debris were chipped so there is about 3" of fresh/dry woodchip mulch over the entire site in that photo. It has had a year to breakdown and the area is now scattered with ferns (unknown species) and stays moist but due to the slope, doesn't collect standing water.

I've continued to research the Mertensia virginica and found the following information at the USDA site.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/charProfile?symbol=MEVI3

The "reproduction" section has a lot of good information which does suggest the plants reproduce through self seeding (as well as roots) with medium vigor but do slow slowly. I think Adidas is correct that this would be a multi-year project, but perhaps worth it! As with many perennials, best-case scenario would be blooms in 2-3 years probably. Other research as indicated that the seeds must be stratified but frost seeding to bare earth in sufficient quantities I think would take care of that and mimic the natural conditions in which they reproduce in the wild. They are wild flowers after all. Our soil is acidic although we have not yet tested this area but we are liming the fields and I could lime this as well although the USDA site says they can tolerate pH as low as 4.5.

That link also has plant density information and a little math puts it at about 1oz of seed ($100) per acre so we could continue to seed it for a few years until it achieved enough density and we confirmed it was "working".

The other thing we've considered was mixing in forget-me-not seeds, Myosotis sylvatica, which are cheap and could perhaps fill in the site faster with a complimentary color and perhaps a scattering of Cardinal flowers, Lobelia cardinalis, in places to add a bit of contrasting later season color. Does anyone have any experience with either of those? Conditions for good growth seem very similar.

Thanks again for the input. We're new at this so I really appreciate any experience or advise we can get, please keep it coming.

Well, I hope you come back and update because I am trying to do similar things w/my little patch. I, personally, have never had luck w/direct sowing. I think the only seed that I ever germinated using this method was Asclepias syriaca (common milkweed) and I think you could germinate this stuff on bare rock :) ! So I am interested in what germination rate you get from the bluebell seeding. I have grown Lobelia cardinalis from seed (winter sowed in containers) and it actually (according to Esh) could flower in the second yr. So Cardinal flower is easy from seed and grows fairly quickly. I planted them out in an area that gets a fair amt of sun BUT I am in a cove forest that has quite a bit of moisture in the soil. I have the world's most aggressive deer herds here and they have yet to touch the Cardinals...so that's also a plus! Haven't grown forget me nots .

Good luck and I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice here for your project!

My mertensia (in Columbia Cty. NY) spread all over the yard by seed -- they make a beautiful spread, mine not as big as the BBG's, YET. You can direct seed, but they need to have 60 days of moist, cold stratification (temp under 40 degrees F, moist) before they'll germinate. I would seed them in the fall if doing directly, for germination in Spring. The way I did it was like the "winter sowing" system. Seed them in flats or pots in the late fall, cover, put out in a protected area (I use a back porch). They should germinate in the early spring. I don't exactly remember, but I probably potted them up, kept them under lights, fertilized them until big enough to transplant. Then transplanted them out. They really will fill in, if you're patient and don't want to transplant a million little plants, but plant some sporadically through the area. They are tough -- grow up in the grass.

I don't know about a second blooming followed by ferns. The mertensia are just going to seed and the tops will die down in the next couple of weeks. By then my ferns would be pretty big. You need something that appears late, coming up about now. I have spikenard, a perennial that dies down, starts late, and looks shrubby when its grown. Nice foliage, inconspicuous flowers, pretty purple berries.

This post was edited by davidl_ny5 on Tue, May 20, 14 at 15:51

You could order 100 mertensia from tennesee wholesale for 40$. they will be very small but easier than seeds and they will reseed. Also consider, (about the same color) phlox divaricata..this will reseed very quickly and make a beautiful "carpet". Foliage does not die down but does get a little ragged looking. also delphinium tricorne..another ephemeral is bright blue and low. Wood poppies would "carpet" by reseeding but are yellow and bloom at the same time as the mertensia. Still very pretty!

Davidl_ny5, we're just across the river in Ulster Co and its nice to hear some success stories thank you. Shadeyplace, thanks for these recommendations as well as the Tennessee Wholesale link. We could maybe buy a couple hundred of those and some seed and try both! You guys are giving us some interesting options for alternatives as well and making us start to think about doing a few different drifts maybe rather than one full carpet - maybe hedge our bets a bit. Thanks!

Up, since it's blue you want, or so it seems, I have a suggestion for intense cobalt-blue but before the Mertensia flowers-Siberian squill-Scilla siberica. These would have to be installed as bulbs in the fall, but they are small and it would not be unreasonable to think you could plant a great many.

I doubt if deer eat this lily-family member, and at least once established, they naturalize with ease.

Not native obviously, but a benign and unproblematic addition to our early season woodland flora, IMO. I've got a patch in my back yard that has done nothing but increase over the years. These would be nearly finished with bloom by about the time the Virginia bluebelss kicked in.

+oM

PS...plant taxonomists may have this plant in a different genus now, but I still know it as Scillla. I should think any knowledgeable plants person would steer you right.

You guys have offered so many great alternatives that our thinking on this is beginning to evolve actually. We also just purchased this book and also very much like the look of the foamflowers, Tiarella cordifolia and creeping Phlox, Phlox Stolonifera which is shown in other photos of this same garden. It appears to be very similar to the phlox divaricata that shadeyplace recommended as well!

What we're discovering is that for us, it is actually less about any particular plant but more the large sweeping drifts of one or two species. We feel that it ties together the landscape and provides some continuity and order to everything that is otherwise a little random and, well - natural. Our current thinking is due to the size of the area, we should perhaps go with drifts of something that are a little easier to sow and/or spreads a little more quickly (aggressive?) and save the bluebells for a smaller accent areas or drift within the larger groundcovering. A white flowering groundcover would work well with pretty much anything else we intermingle with it which is why I'm currently leaning towards the Tiarella cordifolia as the base. It seems it is a relatively good spreader but I've not found anything on it yet regarding deer resistance.

Deer and rabbits will eat Tiarella as well! I don't think it spreads any faster than bluebells. Cardinal flower, other species of Lobelia, Allegheny spurge (native pachysandra), sedges, bluebells are fairly safe w/deer. Deer don't seem to be big on Jack in Pulpits or bloodroot though they will and can eat them....these 2 can spread fairly fast.

What about adding some shrubby species? The pic above has some shorter trees/shrubs....you could go w/some Itea virginicus (beautiful white flowers) and so far, for me, have been completely untouched by deer. They like shade/sun. These would offer some protection from browsing deer (perhaps!). Witch hazel....shortish and adds some protection...flowers in dead of winter so wouldn't detract from a spring flowering.