Why not rescue some of the plants for yourself and trade some of them off to others who are interested so the plants still LIVE??

Paula

Not much you can do about it when folks want grass. My mom renovated my grandmothers place and in doing so, ran a bulldozer over all of the white oaks tree roots to grade for a grass lawn. (I told her that would would kill them) unfortunately, I was right. Those trees were 110 years old. (They were planted when my great grandfather bought the place.) She goes around saying they all died because of the drought. I cannot convince her or her husband that you drastically change the enviroment of your property when you do things like that. Not to mention that they will always be fighting to keep that grass growing and then spend alot of time mowing it.

I have to agree with Odonata. People obsessed with lawns can't see anything else. The sad part is that once they find they can't grow a "real lawn" back there, some lawn expert will advise them to cut the trees down.

Woodland gardening is becoming more popular these days. There are numerous books on the subject. Perhaps if you found a few books and provided them with some nice pictures of how they could work with nature instead of against it, they might consider it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Deborah's Garden

Maybe try to ask them if they will let you pick an area for your own "garden" back there. You could move the natives into that area and try to make it a little oasis for those being displaced.

Yes, people growing grass in a woodland drives me nuts. My neighbor has decided to try that zoisya grass. I was worried but then I read that it's not supposed to be able to take acid (which is why her other lawn died.. duh...) so now I'm just making sure that I keep a very THICK layer of oak leaves between her property and mine :>

my dad is the same way. i think its a a baby-boomer thing. every year he puts weed & feed down and i argue that it hurts all the trees and shrubs i've planted on his property. (its also bad for the chesapeake bay but since he doesn't even recycle i don't bring up this point) he put some down about 3 weeks ago actually and now an american holly is completely yellow and dropping leaves. he's blaming it on squirells. every year more big trees have to get cut down from his yard and now he has about 4 or 5 unhealthy looking ones left. his grass looks no better than anyone elses and sometimes worse like when he puts it down too heavy and burns huge patches of lawn. he runs his lawnmower over ferns sometimes and his weedwacker leaves marks on all the native trees i've planted, etc., etc. people are set in their ways about lawns.

You could try explaining the money issue. Having a lawn is costly to the consumer. Installing and maintaining lawns requires:

Watering = increases water bills during the growing season
Lawn mower = buying one and maintaining it
Feed and weed chemicals = cost per year, small but it adds up especially if the space is large
Mowing = your time or someone else's

And last but not least...cutting down trees or losing them b/c of fertilizer will increase your dwelling's exposure to sun. And in the summer months your electricity bills will increase. Trees provide shade.

Anyways, you could try that.

Good luck!

Hey, watch the comments on the babyboomers!

My woodland garden was converted from a weed ridden corner of my yard to a pleasingly tranquil and inviting place to visit. It's my favorite part of the yard to hang out.

It's too bad your parents prefer a boring lawn over something of such beauty. Maybe you could find some woodland gardens to visit with them. Tell them about how it benefits wildlife. How lawns require chemicals to keep them healthy and you don't want them using that nasty stuff because you love them:))

Maybe you could get them to compromise by pointing out how nice it would be to have a low maintenance shade garden as well as a grassy area.

good luck~

You could also point out that a woodland increases a property's value far more dramatically than a lawn. It can also increase the property taxes... but you don't need to point that out. :)

How attached are you to your parents? There are so few woodlands left, but the world is filling up with old people (and lawns!). The future is in your hands.

Paul
Canberra
Australia

(both parents still living, mother-in-law on her final warning)

Here is a link that might be useful: hints

I've told them over and over about how it's messing up the ecosystem, erosion and killing both plants and animals but they won't relent. This weekend I woke up to a chain saw noise and I look out and my dad is cutting down to the ground a ancient wild rose bush. Guess what I found there later? A good foot long tortoise. Can you imagine if he'd been mowing on the tracker lawn mower?

I forgot to mention that this exact place was the only birdhouse I found the eastern bluebirds using.

what do you mean by tortoise, box turte? there are no tortoises in maryland.

Right, box turtle.

If I had the money, I'd buy property just so these stupid people would stop cutting down all the trees! Here's an article that should make everyone feel a little bit better:

http://nola.com/archives/t-p/index.ssf?/base/living-1/1053062925185920.xml

Here is a link that might be useful: Living Landmarks from the Times Picayune

Woodland Gardens is right. The land value is what they will understand. I wanted wooded property when we built our house but it would've cost around twice as much.

Can someone explain how weed-n-feed is bad for the environment? I live in suburbia-central, where your self-worth is directly proportional to the greenness of your lawn:)

I'll tackle the weed-n-feed question. Using WNF may seem like a good idea to get a nice lawn and lots of people use it, right? It contains an herbicide to kill weeds and a fertilizer to make grass grow real fast so you can mow it frequently (I mean make it greener). The herbicide is 2,4-D and is related to Agent Orange. It might have dioxins in it and might cause cancer, but evidence is unclear. It probably breaks down pretty quick if you don't overapply it. (I have a well in my yard and wouldn't take that chance). The fertilizers are a larger story, but I'll try to be brief. You may have noticed there are lots of driveways and parking lots near you in the suburbs. When it rains there is flooding and deluges running down the streets. This RUNOFF is the problem. All the fertilizer that is hanging around lawns and farms ends up in streams, lakes, rivers, and oceans. The fertilizer (N & P) keeps working and helps algae to grow fast until it is used up. Then the algae die and use up all the oxygen in the water so that animals cannot live there. Almost every large water body has a huge area with no oxygen (HUGE). The Gulf of Mexico is an example (look at a satellite photo). Where do all the extra nutrients come from? The Mississippi River carries a lot of stuff down there, I'll bet. Anyone living in the Chesapeake Bay watershed should be aware of the nutrient reduction plan in place for the last umpteen years. Sure, a little weed-n-feed seems like a trivial thing, but please, at the least, follow the directions and check the weather if you have to stimulate your grass.

I lost a woods that was next door.For years I enjoyed the wild life and flowers that habitated there.I could not afford to buy the property when it came up for sale .Know there is a new house.It's sad to see this happen.But in some circles it's called progress.

I have a neighbor that cuts down trees because they are "dirty". I asked him one day, "What do you mean by dirty, does it shed dirt?" The witty comment went right over his head.

Why do so many people (who know nothing about gardening) form these bad opinions and then they won't listen to the people who know. My father-in-law was upset that his tree pruning people didn't 'top' his tree and refused to listen to a professional tell it like it is. He even told me that my trees were "out of control" in my yard! Never have been able to figure that one out.

I have to add to all the bemoaning of the loss of beautiful trees. My mother had a 50+ year old maple in her front yard, so big that your arms couldn't encircle it. She asked me if I thought she could cut it down because she was afraid it would fall on her house. I told her to leave it. It was perfectly healthy, but she didn't find that out until it was cut down.

She had another old tree topped (yes, topped!) and a family of wood ducks was left homeless. Thank heavens they were taken to a wildlife refuge.

When I was growing up there, the large lot looked like a park, with huge old trees that shaded most of the lawn. Bird of many species (including robins, bluebirds, finches, sparrows, and at least three different types of woodpeckers) were in abundance. The air rang with bird calls all day long. Dutch elm disease killed off 3 of the elms, but the rest of the trees were just cut down because ... ??? I still can't figure it out. Now the sun bakes the house all summer long and Mom's electricity bill is huge. The only birds I see now are robins, blackbirds, and starlings.

I have seen this with so many older people. I think some must start feeling more vulnerable as they age and can't think of anything else but what harm might befall them if...you fill in the blanks. Too bad. Her property value is a fraction of what it was, I'm sure.

My former neighbors cut down a huge silver maple because they thought that would get rid of the evil cicadas.

This is a fascinating topic I am trying to plant trees because we lost two to disease and a storm, and everybody is cutting them down. These past two weeks we had a hurricane and a tornado come thru and I was totally shocked to see how many trees were pulled up if a side walk was there that too was pulled up and knocked down completely uprooted in one small area there must have been several dozen 80 foot trees and higher knocked down I guess mother nature had a mind of her own about knocking all the trees down in 10 seconds! I did see on the local news where a couple of baby squirrels and birds that lost their house were save by a small zoo. What was so amazing to me was that in a woods you see an ocasional tree that fell and how it gets recycled into the environment but in this one local area not a woods maybe several blocks in size all of these large trees were knocked down like toothpicks! Sarah

Just to add to this today I read in paper it was well over a hundred trees in this very small area. Sarah

"parents" don't like when things affect their pocketbook. try this argument on them:

grass is a huge cause of air pollution. If an area does not meet the air quality standards set by EPA they are called a non-attainment area and all kinds of bad thing happen. some of them affect parents day to day life such as having to get multiple car inspections every year and having to pass much more stict inspections. ask them how they'll like having a hose hooked to their buick, ford, or dodge sedan and when the red light goes off the guy doesn't say "get that fixed and come back for the inspection sticker" he says..."get that fixed right now before you can drive away from the inspection station".

aside from the horrific waste of water, especially when it's applied in the heat of the day as lots of idiots around here are fond of doing, thousands and thousands of inefficient 2-stroke engines spewing pollution every week for months on end...just to mow down what they've spent their time, money, and our water to grow...arrrgghhh!!! it's such nonsense.

here's what you do: when they're not looking, spray roundup type grass killer all around and maybe eventually they'll give up on the nasty grass and it can revert back to a healthy and normal and pleasant state.

I'be been told by my insurance company to take down trees next to my house! Since I'm surrounded by woods with some huge old trees, I'm wondering, hopefully facetiously, whether they will make me go back into the woods a distance equal to the tallest tree.

I wonder the same thing about the power companies. Currently they remove anything within 15' of their lines, but trees from further than that away fall on the lines. Will they soon be going after anything that can fall on their lines?

I had 70-100' oaks towering over my house in SW VA for nearly 20 yrs. 100 mph gusts in Hurricane Hugo, a 100-yr ice storm, etc. Never a problem, tho the ice storm caused alot of damage to weaker trees. My boyhood home had a 125' English elm towering near it. Unbreakable.

Naturally, the TYPE of tree is a vital point -- oaks (especially the White oak group) are virtually impervious to damage, unless they have obvious problems. Same for hickories, most elms & some others. Your "standard" nursery trees, tho, could be far more a potential problem close up. But I'd think trimming could alleviate that instead of chopping down.

I noticed alot of tulip poplar trees and maples fell during that tornado that passed thru I am not sure but I think sycamores as well. Sarah

I can't believe that people would get rid of a woodland,just so they could plant grass, then have to mow,fertilize,pick up grass clippings,etc.etc. I mowed grass my entire life it seems, and I for one was tired of it! I now live in the mountains of western N.C., and I love it! I only have a very small strip in front of my house, and that's enough! The rest is woods, and I am making that a hosta haven,along with ferns,trillium,vinca and anything else that grows in native woodlands. We have native ferns azaleas,Rhododendrons ,Mountain laurel, and Dogwoods, and I am happy.Why do people want to mow grass?

Vinca doesn't grow in native woodlands but it can and does invade them, spreading more and more each year.

Western NC, does have many natvie az's and trilliums, I agree with you there.

Revolutions rarely occur overnight, but there are several ways to expedite the process. I had a similar experience with family and over several years, I have begun to see quite a bit of change. I created a beautiful woodland garden on family property and the appreciation is beginning to show.

The most important thing is to communicate and do it well. It will not convince someone to call them an idiot or directly confront and question their ethics. They simply will fail to hear or accept your message.

The main thing is to talk their language and have some patience.

It also may help to get busy and invest some time, effort, money etc... into creating a beautiful woodland garden. Many people will see the "natural" woodland simply as a dirty and tick-ridden area despite your efforts....Add a trail, allow some openings, give some structure.....

Many people simply have a different idea about aesthetics and this is something that is not easy to overcome. A patch of green lawn surrounded by woodland could be a beautiful sight, and showing them photos of such a beautiful and diverse environment could help.

But if someone simply likes open spaces, it is not easy to change them. My father grew up on a farm with huge pastures, flat, and all the way to the horizon. This is something that is as much a matter of fate than preference.

The bottom line is I have fought for years and have spent thousands of dollars and worked hundreds of hours creating a nice woodland garden (even though I live in a condominium, all my plants are at my family's property). When people visit, they offer compliments, and this helps the cause. It was easier to convert my mother, so it was possible to gain some allegiance without driving a wedge between any two people. All the influences are crucial and it is a tricky balance.

Do not give up even when the chainsaw is running. Try to preserve whatever you can. Also, do not be afraid of allowing some openings or spots of lawn. Not only does it provide for a more diverse fauna, the available light will give you many more floristic possibilities (even "shade-tolerant" plants prefer bright conditions). Of course the choice to use fertilizers and herbicides, etc... is an unfortunate and avoidable one. I prefer some weeds with my lawn. After all, they are nice and green and sometimes have cool flowers and puffy seed things like dandelions. :)

ohmysweetpjs, how old are your parents? Are they ready to be shuffled of to a managed care facility where they don't need to be bothered by anything from the outdoors? I do wish you well in your quest, though.

I keep hearing comments about chain saws and wanted to say the use of them is not always bad. We bought 7 acres in TN in Spring 2002 and have been using the chain saw and loppers ever since. We are taking down only the smallest trees and creating gardens and paths through the woods. We have several different oaks, hickory, maples and sourwoods.
We found one large tulip poplar surrounded by dense under growth. The more we clear out the more wildflowers we find and now we are finding little tulip poplars everywhere. They are my favorite tree and as I find them they get tagged to stay or moved.
Just wanted to let you know at times the chain saw is necessary.
Good luck though in convincing your parents that woodland gardens are better than grass.

Tell them about us. We live in a wooded suburban lot that had sod put down but the grass under the trees would not survive no matter what. We slowly created woodland beds but decided to buy property since we wanted a real woodland with privacy and a chance to really create. We paid a bundle for the land (3 acres of southern exposure walkout lot) that is dense forest 5 min from major suburb but feels like it is "up north". It is valuable real estate and will appreciate since this type of land is becoming more scare. Maybe the economics will register with them. PS. We are "youngish boomers" too so I don't think its a generational thing. I think if they saw how beautiful it can look with winding paths and secret garden areas, they might reconsider. Give them a woodland gardening book as a gift.

check out a book called "noah's garden" by sarah stien and ask your parents to wait on their lawn conversion until after they read it. print the information on the attached link and ask your parents to read it... and if they still dont budge and arent open to learning about more environmnetally friendly property management practices - we are saddened. people make their own choices and you have done everything you can to educate them on what you know - but you still cannot force someone else to comply with your expectations.

private property rights allow me to grow a native natural landscape but these same rights also allows someone else to grow a monocultural sterile green shag carpet too...

cutting down trees is not always a bad thing - i like to remove trees - from a savannah dweller

Here is a link that might be useful: wild ones introduction