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Will this plan mean certain death for spruces?
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Posted by gomanson 4a (My Page) on Sun, May 25, 08 at 21:07
Today I bought a Colorado Spruce and a Norway Spruce from Walmart for $5 each. (See Photo)
Part of my property is a sloping maple/ash/basswood(I think) forest with little undergrowth. We have good topsoil on top of brown clay.
(this was taken today right after a hailstorm and the flash went off, so it looks a little darker than it is, but you can see how much direct light gets through the canopy.)
I like to kid myself into thinking I live in the northwoods (A half hour drive to the north brings us to the southern range of several spruce and fir species...the only conifers native here are scrubby redcedar and the rare white pine) so I've been transplanting some redcedar into the woods. I also am trying some free Norway Pine seedlings I got from McDonald's on arbor day. I know it's a fool's errand to try to transform a deciduous forest into coniferous, especially where the conifers are not native. So my only goal is to fill in the undergrowth a bit with some conifers, even if they grow slow and thin.
So my question is: If I plant these spruces in the woods, will they have a chance of making it? Like I said, I know they won't do well, but if they survive at all and stay small and green, I'll have gotten my $10 worth. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Will this plan mean certain death for spruces?
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| I think it's more a question of whether something will eat the tender little things. I think they can grow in the shade all right. Give it a try and see. I love spruce but nothing is so pretty to my eye season after season as a deciduous woods. Have you catalogued the trees that are already there? It's fun. |
RE: Will this plan mean certain death for spruces?
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| Here in MN, anyway ever greens need sun. We would like to edge our woods with pines for winter privacy, but we know if we do the back side will be all but dead. What does the tag say? |
RE: Will this plan mean certain death for spruces?
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| I don't know if you can change to a pine woods but most of the Ozarks were pine until the trees were logged off which allowed the oakes to grow. You might want to check your area may have been logged over. Do put wire arround and over the top to prevent munchers. |
RE: Will this plan mean certain death for spruces?
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| Norway Spruce are pretty shade tolerant and so they might survive or even grow a little. i am not so sure about Colorado blue Spruce, but I think spruce in general are reasonably shade tolerant. Pines generally like sun, but spruce and hemlock usually grow OK in the shade. |
RE: Will this plan mean certain death for spruces?
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| Many trees will grow in shade but they will stay skinny for a lifetime. You might see the same kind of tree, the same diameter but one will be 30 years old and one 80 years old depending on the growing conditions, both moisture and sun. So the question may be will it grow the shape you are expecting? If you are expecting it to look like a Christmas tree, probably not. But it will most likely survive (if not eaten). Look at the size and shape of trees in the forest and you will notice this. Of course, without cutting them down and counting rings you can't know which are old or young unless you were there all along. |
RE: Will this mean certain death for my spruce?
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| HELP- my beautiful Swiss Pine (I think that's what this gentle needled everygreen is called -- - hey - growing up in Germany as a Russian and then continuing my life in Canada - you all have to forgive me if my identifying abilities are not quite up to it) anyway a 'cinneman-coloured' coating has appeared last year on the trunk - mid way up the trunk- the soft long needles are turning brown - shedding - and the cinneman is spreading and several branches have now been effected ------ HELP!!! |
RE: Will this plan mean certain death for spruces?
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| Why are you trying to transform a beautiful, mature beech maple deciduous forest into a conifer forest? Norway spruce is not native and I consider it a weed. Not only will it and the spruce suffer in the shade, if they do grow they will shade out any understory shrubs, forest floor flowers and new beech/maple seedlings. If you want a conifer forest, I suggest you start from scratch with an open field or meadow. Plant it with native pine, fir and spruce seedlings; in full sun they will grow quickly. If you are in zone 4, there should be native conifers, check the USDA plant database (link below) for various conifers (spruce, pine, cedar, tamarack) and see if the map includes where you live. Local conservation organizations and muncipalities often provide low cost tree seedlings to property owners, often only cents per tree. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Plants Data base
RE: Will this plan mean certain death for spruces?
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| I want to transform a conifer forest into a deciduous forest. Is it possible? My property Is in Michigan justamente below the forty fifth paralell. |
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