I am willing to bet that you could root prune one of your sucker/saplings from the parent and leave it in situ for a while, ensuring that it develops its own root system before transplanting it. I think that you are a rare person not to hate this beautiful tree's terrible growth habit.

Anybody know how to deal with the suckering? Does Brush B Gon help? I can't mow the upper hill - too steep.

makes one wonder how it would work to plant one every 8 foot around the perimeter of your property for an inexpensive and permanent fencing system!

Keeping the sprouts down would be a challenge, but I'm already messing with that with red cedars here in eastern TN. They grow everywhere like weeds.

I wonder how long they'd have to grow before you could attach fencing to them and whack them off?

My question: Do deer like to eat black locust? Something is eating them, and it's not bugs.

pheobuscottage's method of sucker propagation sounds good.
Black locusts add nitrogen to the soil, so even if they're unsightly, they're enriching the soil alittle.

Your long-thorned locust is honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos). Can be a great shade tree: more attractive than your Michigan black locust, wide-spreading crown, dappled shade, and leaves that are too small to require raking. Thorniness varies widely in different individuals, and you can buy one of the (very) popular thornless varieties. Flowers are inconspicuous.

I have plenty of fond childhood memories of playing in black locust plantations in Wisconsin, and I love the smell (and look) of black locusts in bloom, but I would not plant them around my property.

A local university has a 115 year association with the locust tree, but the actual tree has been shunned because of the thorns being a legal suit waiting to happen.

I should love a thornless variety to be planted on campus.

Thanks.

'Shipmast' is an interesting variety of Black locust, apparently more resistant to the BLocust wood-borer.

Leona

I have neighbors who are from Ohio who tell me that their grandparents had one in Columbus and they still have suckers coming back 30 years later.

HELP!!!!!!!

Black locust is an underdog that deserves more appreciation.

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Black locust benefits farmers and home owners because it fertilizers the ground and helps grass grow while at the same time it poisens weeds, brush, and competing trees like alder that really are pests. Your black locust trees around your yard or field are doing much of your yard work for you.

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Black locust is the best wood grown in North American. The general public is ignorant of this fact though, which is good since that holds down lumber prices. This ignorance is also bad because people don't understand the value and often want to kill the black locust.

Black locust is ideal for furniture, boat building, decks, and hardwood floors. It's also great for fenceposts, but that's a waste of a fine wood. It's a native exotic.

It is native to the Eastern USA, but was brought to CA by goldminers to grow for minining timbers. The railroads also planted it because it makes excellent railroad timbers for bridges and railroad ties.

Black locust can last well in excess of 70 years in the ground without painting or chemical treatment.

It's very strong, shock resistant, stable (doesn't shrink or swell much), durable (rot resistant), looks great (in part due to flouresant grain. It's somewhat hard to work, but not to much considering it's very hard. It's easy to glue. Unlike other very hard woods, black locust nails reasonably well. It is also a fairly smooth wood.

To get better physical properties that black locust, you have to look at ebony or some other expensive, exotic import.

You can basically think of black locust as hickory that is more rot resistant and more stable when humidity changes. It looks similar to red and white oak, except is better looking due to greater smoothness and flouresant grain.

It's considered a pest by some Western tree hugging environmentalists because it's an aggressive tree that kills the Western native trees and plants in a wide area around it. However, that was a very useful quality to pioneer farmers who worked hard to get their fields cleared. The easy way to keep a field cleared of brush, alder, other trees, and weeds is to plant some black locust. Black locust only allows grass to grow in its field. Nothing else. That's a convienent way to keep a field cleared without manual weeding or spraying weed killers.

A lot of Oregonian tree hugger environmentalists hated black locust because it kills other species of trees and brush. Black locust is mostly dead in Oregon now due to a beetle attack.

Black locust is mostly ignored in CA and WA because the general public is ignorant about black locust. Yes, it exists and is the best hardwood in N American. It can be found on West and East coast and in Southern Midwest, but it's only appreciated in the East (by mariners) where they still build yachts and sailboats with it.

Though native to the Eastern USA, it's spread all over the Western USA and parts of the Southern Midwest and Europe.

It is appreciated by environmentalists in those places because it is an easy, quick way to reforest strip mined areas and logged out areas. Although it prefers good soil and lots of sun, it can grown in bad soil (mine spoils) and cloudy and cold climates too.

It has spread all over Canada over the last 250 years.

It was imported to France in the 1600s. The French recognized awesome shipbuilding wood when the saw it. They also used it for medicinal properties (seeds) and cooking (flowers). The seeds have also been used in Europe as a coffee substitute. Also, in addition to suppressing-poisoning other trees and brush, locusts do not poisen grass. Locusts improve the grass by fertilizing the soil. Therefore, they're an ideal tree for a farmer to have around his fields. They make the grass grow better while suppressing weeds, brush and other invasive trees like alder.

The English imported black locust to England hundreds of years ago where it still grows. They know a good ship building wood when they see it. Not to mention it's the farmer's friend.

It has spread all over Western and especially Eastern Europe. The Europeans appreciate the black locust for it's medicinal properties (seeds are laxative) and for the quality of its wood. The biggest attraction is that it is an aggressive tree that self cultivates and self spreads without much human effort needed. The black locust is reforesting much of the logged out areas of Europe that have been barren for centuries. It's also a renewable resource for them since it's so easy to regrow. They don't even need to replant it. It's such an aggressive, persistant tree that it continually replants itself. It's an automated reforestation program for Europe that doesn't require much labor. You see, some people appreciate invasive trees.

Black locust is a national symbol of Hungary and the basis of their forestry industry.

I'd like the Oregon tree huggers to put that in their pipe and smoke it, but don't try to burn black locust for firewood. It's bark is poisonous and it explodes when burned (trapped steam pockets).

Anyone who thinks that black locust is only a pest or only good for fence posts is ignorant. Yes, it makes great fence posts, but it's a far superior wood to white oak, hickory, hard maple, walnut, or cherry for furntiture and boat building. Using black locust for fence posts is not the best use of the wood.

However, it does make the good fence posts (along with osage orange). Black locust fence posts last well over 70 years in the ground with no deterioration. This is without any chemical treatment.

I found a supplier in Washington State near me who sells it for a bit less than white oak. I'd like to build a house and use it for the indoor hardwood floor and outdoor decking. Maybe the doors too. It'd probably make great siding and roofing. Since it last 70+ years in the ground, it ought to last hundreds of years as siding or roofing without painting or staining. It's supposed to nail easily before fully dry. Unlike other woods, it does not shrink, warp, or crack when it dries (stabile).

In conclusion, black locust is a blessing. I don't have much patience for those lucky enough to have it in abundance and then complain about. If you have it, be thankful. You are blessed with a tree that enriches the soil and helps grass grow while poisening weeds, brush, and other invasive trees like alder. Black locust flowers make great tea (according to Europeans) and the beans can be used for coffee subsitute or laxative (according to Europeans).

It is reforesting and replenishing American soils in strip mined areas. In strip mined areas, the environmentalists love black locust's invasive nature. No other tree will grow in a strip mined area.

The Europeans love it because in addition to its other qualities, it's a very easy (zero labor) way to reforest barren lands that were logged out for centuries.

It grows even where the soil is eroded or exhausted and replenishes it by nitogren fixing. So I guess one person's invasive trash is another's reforesting treasure. But even if you don't like black locust, please realize its wood is highly valued and appreciated for furniture, highend hardwood floors, and wood yachts in the Eastern USA and especially Europe. There are a few of us in the West who also appreciate it. So don't think it's only good for fenceposts or is junk. The only wood with similar properties (strength, hardness, beauty, stability, rot resistance) is purpleheart. Only Ebony is superior to black locust. So think twice before you waste the cadillac of woods on fence posts or want to kill it as a pest. At least use it for a deck or hardwood floor, if not fine furniture or a yacht.

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Since the average American only understands the value of something based on money, let me put this in dollars and cents you can understand.

It takes abut 60 board feet of lumber to make a nice office desk, if you do it will all 3/4 lumber and no plywood. I'm talking about making a very high-end piece of furniture. The kind of desk that sells for $4,000 to $6,000 if you bought it at a retailer.

Now suppose you want the best wood you can get based on the mechanical properties of the wood and its beauty. There is only one native USA wood that qualifies and that's black locust. It is the ideal wood, yet costs less than white oak because the public doesn't understand the qualities of black locust. White oak is something everyone likes, but it's inferior to black locust in nearly every way: strength, shock resistance, hardness, rot resistance, smoothness, stability (not shrinking or swelling with humidity changes) and good looks. Cherry and Walnut cost 3 times more than white oak, but are inferior to white oak with regard to hardness and strength. i.e. - they look nice but are not very tough or durable.

Black locust is mechanically better than white oak in every way for furniture or anything else. White oak is better than red oak. Red oak is mechanically better than Cherry or Walnut.

To get similar physical qualities as black locust you'd have to buy Purpleheart or Santos Mahogany (both expensive South American exotics). To get better qualities than Black Locust you'd have to buy Ebony (very expensive African exotic).

A desk made of black locust would cost $150 for materials and would be the best (other than ebony).

The same desk made of white oak would cost $200 for materials, but would not be nearly as good as black locust, especially because white oak has too rough a surface for a good writing surface. White oak also lacks black locust's stability in humidity changes (meaning white oak shrinks and swells more, which can break glue joints).

The same desk made of cherry or walnut would cost $450 for materials, but would be much softer, weaker, and less stablile than black locust.

The same desk made of purpleheart would cost $450 for materials, but not be as good as black locust because purpleheart is less smooth.

The same desk made of Santos Mahogany would cost $600 for materials, but not be as good because it's too hard to work and is not as smooth as black locust.

Ebony Gaboon - this is the ideal furniture wood and is better than black locust mainly because it's smoother. However, ebony would cost $4,500 for materials to make the desk.

The above mentioned woods are the best furniture woods in the world. Ebony is best, black locust is second best. All others are poor relations. The fact that black locust sells for less than white oak is because the public is ignorant of the true value of black locust. However, that works to your favor if you want to make furniture, wood boats, decks, or floors because the public's lack of appreciation holds down the price.

I just hope the public's lack of appreciation doesn't lead to a genicide of black locust trees (as happened in Oregon). They're a national treasure, not a trash.

If you have black locust, don't hate it, love it. You'd got an exceptionally fantastic, world class wood that is a native exotic.

If people would appreciate the true value of black locust, perhaps the trees would fare better and be allowed to grow to maturity so we'd have more large, higher quality boards with fewer knots. However, even the younger, smaller trees make great furniture. Older, larger trees are needed for boat building, decks, and floors. Some larger trees still exist in WA. I suspect that most of the larger trees are in Canada and Europe.

One concern I have is that black locust loggers in the West are not required to replant or practice responsible forestry because the tree is considered a non-native pest. That's too bad. We have to practice good forestry for the less useful native trees. So far black locust has been able to compensate for this to an extent with its invasive nature saving it. However, it is losing the battle due to logging without replanting.

If Americans aren't careful, their ignorance and hostility toward black locust could lead to eradicatiion (like happened in Oregon). Then it would only be a Canadian and European tree.

It was actually a beetle that wiped it out in Oregon, but no effort was made to kill the beetles and save the black locust trees. The Oregon environmentalists jumped for joy that it was killed off. Luckily we still have plenty in CA and WA. But there used to be plenty of elephants in Africa too.

Some people hate black locust. Some love it. Most never heard of it. We need to do better to save this tree.

I wrote this to this forum because I noticed a large number of black locust haters in this group. I hope you will reconsider.

I hope people learn to appreciate this wonderful tree and stop wanting to eradicate it.

Thanks

To be honest, in the context of woodland gardening I can't imagine how this tree could be problematic. If you already have a woodland, it'll be entirely non-weedy and will produce great wood and better flowers than any other canopy tree I know of. If you want to convert an area to woodland, this is an ideal tree for that purpose, since it will quickly fill your land with trees but won't shade out underplanted trees. If you start with deforested land and plant the typical oaks, hickories, and whatnot of mature forest you'll be sitting there for decades before there's anything close to a forest. If you plant black locust and then underplant with the oaks and so forth you'll have an early-successional forest in no time, and the oaks, hickories, etc., will start to take over at about the same time they would've if you'd only planted them. It's a win-win situation.

Patrick Alexander

-- wd

phdNC suggests scarifying the seeds. The hot water soak seems reasonable. What would the temperature and duration be for such a soak? Are the seeds ready to plant immediately after this process or must they cool and dry for some prescribed time before planting?

If a freezing cycle is necessary, is that done before scarifying?

I will plant the seeds outside in a garden nursery to get them started in frames/pots filled with potting soil(?). How deep would the seeds be planted?

Thanks for any help on this.

Last year, I also planted some old seed in pots without scarification and one came up in february and I just kept it by the window's natural light and when spring and warmer temps came;
I first hardened it off.
then I planted it out in the woods.

I'm taking a class in beekeeping. I read that black locusts make good nectar and that bees really like them. Does anyone here have any experience with black locusts and bees? From some of the earlier comments, it sounds like they might not bloom every year. Is there anything I could do to encourage them to bloom?

In our back field there is a large barren section where the previous owner removed the topsoil. We've had trouble getting things to grow there but it sounds like black locust would be a good candidate to help reclaim that spot.

Thanks!

In my area anyway, the trees are usually too crooked to make good lumber, and the wood always shows quite a bit of borer damage. There is a variant on Long Island called the shipmast locust which grows tall and straight, and hopefully greater cultivation of this could help alleviate some of the demand for arsenic treated woods.

It is a frequent volunteer along highways in New York and adds a nice touch. It's biggest downside in the tougher locales is that in droughty summers locust leafminer seems to effect it pretty badly. I'll take invasive locust to ailanthus - although some people are using ailanthus for wood as well, it is supposed to be similar to white ash in appearance.

Does anyone know anything about this? Please help!

Here they become partly defoliated by a small black and yellow beetle, but the trees still seem to thrive.

Black Locust is considered an invasive exotic plant in many regions of the US. But here in central PA we are in or very close to its native range. Here it appears in old fields, roadsides, areas with poor soil and can form large single-species stands. However, it is replaced by other trees that grow in the light shade cast by locust and locusts are few and far between in mature forests.

I wonder if any of you have suggestions for crops or plants that grow well in the black locust understory? I planted some asparagus this spring, with the theory that the late leafing black locust would allow a spring crop like this to get going. We also have an apple tree that is not huge but seems to do okay. Does anyone else have experience along these lines?

I know that the wood is valuable but does anyone know someone who may be interested? They can have all of the wood for the cost of taking it down.

To get rid of the suckers you need to be VERY persistant with the Round-up and clippers. Took 3 years to mostly eliminate the ones from the tree that fell.

i am concerned about this beetle that has been mentioned. is it the same one that has done so much damage to pine trees in the blue mountains in this area? if my trees are infested, what should i look for? and is there anything i can do to keep the beetle away, or get rid of it if it is already in my trees?

First of all what are the differenced between types? I know they sell one type at the nursery but I think it will not flower. Which type would it be good to plant near a sidewalk or brick walkway? I have a fig tree about 15 feet away - do you think it will create too much shade? Any advise is appreciated. thanks in advance! Ken