flowersandthings: You are correct, the ivy will engulf your other plants. Hand clearing can work, but for large areas it takes extensive labor, and much time, with some years of followup work. And although this may not be an option for you, in large sites environmental groups often choose Roundup to remove English ivy from habitat. One way to do it is to use the concentrated form diluted to the label rates for difficult to control perennial weeds with additional surfactant added to the spray mix so it penetrates the ivy leaves. This can be done in late fall when other plants are more likely to be dormant. This is a very successful method with no long term effects since this product breaks down. Make sure to keep any spray off desirable plants. Often a combination of hand clearing of areas where desirable plants are comingled, and spray applications to areas of pure ivy make sense. Good luck.

QUESTION: Having removed the Eng. Ivy from my brick house, have jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire by planting wisteria and trumpet vine? I think not... I HOPE not, as it's growing well and would hate to remove it. Should have asked beforehand. Anyone know?

If you would be so kind as to email me your response, as well as posting it here, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Sometimes with my work schedule I only have time for email.

THANK YOU! jeremyjava@yahoo.com

Onan,

My goodness if you wanna grow English ivy, by all means, go right ahead. Who cares? Or do you just need an audience for your antics?

This is a woodland plant forum, for which ivy doesn't fit the bill.

Why don't you go over to the native plant forum and harass them for awhile. (you'd REALLY like them:)

Please don't encourage him, Peggy.

You may have a point, Peggy. Prior to my original post I read the forum description, which was very simple: "This forum is for the discussion of gardening in woodland habitats." I did not know that the word "woodland" denoted an ideoligical group, and that a post questioning the validity of "environmentally dangerous plants" was akin to advocating condoms on a Catholic Sexual Ethics forum.

Considering many of the reasonable posts on this thread, I have to question that assertion now. There are some name-calling and condescending posts - which seems to indicate some intolerant idealogues out there, but by and far most posts in the woodlands forum are very reasonable - even when posters disagree. If someone were to claim that the woodland gardening forum belongs only to intolerant and extremist environmentalists, I would challenge that immediately.

If a misguided poster suddenly appeared who claimed that only a single species of plant should belong on this planet and all others should be exterminated, I'd say 'Welcome aboard!' They'd at least be interesting posts and there would definitely be some interesting debate. Would I be outraged that someone with such unusual ideas existed? Would I instantly begin a tirade of condescension and name-calling to try and bully them into submission and silence? Of course not. My world view is not that insecure or intolerant.

Strangely enough, most of the venom against my posts is not about my questioning the objective validity of the environmental damage done by invasive species, but that I actually planted English Ivy (gasp!). This is a classic case of choking on flies while swallowing the camel.

Your suggestion to go to the native plants forum is silly. The name of the forum itself denotes an arbitrary acceptance of a meaningless term. Native to what? All species start as invasives. The only native thing in existence is energy, and even it changes form. Me posting on the native plants forum really would be like advocating birth control on a Catholic Sexual Ethics board.

At the same time, I would not suggest you restricting your posts to that group either, although your ideals may tend in that direction. A discussion of woodland gardening is broad enough to allow both our views.

Thank you for the suggestion though.

Hey, why don't you try discussing woodland plants in this here forum for a change? Believe it or not people do talk about plants other than English ivy in the woodlands forum. Really! Look at the other threads, dude! Besides, you've stated that you don't like the plant so get over it already. People relate their personal experiences with the plant and you jump don't their throats for being "intolerant idealogues". That's just mean.

Well, the title of the forum is "woodland plants" It doesn't say woodland native plants, so I figger in this forum, anything that grows in shade is cool..Except EI, which is NEVER cool. Kill it. Kill it hard.

I just ripped out a bed of ivy, and had it removed from the side of a stucoo-over-stone cottage on my property....It left a big mess..trails of 'hold-fasts all up and down the walls. My question now: How do I get those 'trails' off the walls so I can re-paint? Surely pressure washing is not going to do it?
-franceska.

Folks in my area use pressure washing to remove the trails. That, and some elbow grease! April

Onan is a troll. The only threads s/he posts to involve invasive, non-native plants. Onan likes invasive non-native plants. I hope his yard is not next to mine, or yours. And no, not all species start as invasives. April

What an interesting thread on a generally unwelcome addition to someone's yard or woodland.

I just want to add that I had a huge foot-deep ivy patch maybe 80 x 100 ft in my woods that I laboriously pulled up over a couple years. Runners were as long as 50 feet. Many were already high up in the firs, hemlocks and alders, some smaller of which had already succombed to the forest floor covered in ivy.

Pull, roll, toss in the wheelbarrow and off to the burn pile ivy would go where there was a whole lot of "Burn, Baby Burn" sung outloud in celebration! Of course, there are a few sprouts of ivy trying to reclaim some ground in the area: they don't last very long once I see them... but I have been very pleased at how well it's been kept at bay.

A helpful piece of advice by a PNW Garden Guru: if ivy is on your tree trunks: cut the vines at the base and let the runners die before pulling them off or those 'suction cup' holders up the trunk will pull off lots of bark. Yes it's ugly and takes a few months but it works. I assume the same practice would benefit a house whether of wood, brick/mortar or other.

Onan is quite a literate, philosphical poster and it makes my brain hurt to read his/her more thoughtful posts. But I hate to see a place as pleasant as Garden Web littered with name calling. Hope that's kept to a minimum no matter how the debate rages on any given topic.

Poochella

When I bought this place 11 years ago I had a few sprigs of ivy. I liked it so well I went out and purchased a flat at $27. I wish I could sell some of mine for that now. I've had to remove it from my bedford stone house as it grew to the top of the chimney and threatened to close off the flue.

This is a bad place to put my first post, but oh well.

I disagree with the accusation that Onan is a troll. onan likes ivy and isnt afraid to say so. While in my opinion, it has very few redeeming qualitys, some people like it and onan should feel free to state his/her opinion.

I would not ever grow english ivy, but i do have a nontoxic, non-invasive reletive, grape ivy, as a houseplant. I wouldnt let it loose but its nice where it is (in a pot near the window!)

There was another thread that Onan posted on defending English ivy and other "invasive" plants. It made him/her suspect because he/she had only joined gardenweb that day. So the "troll" assumption was not based solely on his posts on this thread.

Welcome to gardenweb. I assure you that we are generally a friendly, likable bunch of people.

Uh, Fledgeling did you notice where he/her/it said "I'm not a fan of English Ivy because of its toxicity to pets"? This person also stated that kudzu is not an invasive plant and that we are all a bunch of intolerant idealogues. I suppose that there are limits to tolerance.

{{!gwi}}

Thank you all....

are these the parts your talking about ""This forum is for the discussion of gardening in woodland habitats." I did not know that the word "woodland" denoted an denoted an ideoligical group, and that a post questioning the validity of "environmentally dangerous plants" was akin to advocating condoms on a Catholic Sexual Ethics forum..."---------------------------------"tomtux: didn't mean to insinuate that you were saving the world - but many people posting on this and other so-called 'invasives' (garlic mustard, kudzu, bamboo, tadpoles, [insert a species you hate here]) not only believe that they're saving the world when they preach their sermon, but feel that anyone who disagrees with them is either 1) ignorant 2) evil 3)stupid or, in the case of an interesting few, 4) unscientific.""

---------------------------------------------------
These are direct copy-and-paste quotes from onan- from two different posts(not in order). /\ notice that intolerent and ideolougs appeir in different posts, and i dont think onan ment exactly what was interperted.

on the flip side, i would be one of those "interesting few" that say that onan is being a wee but... unscientific.

pardon my bluntness

Lycopus, you took the wind out of my sails.... I took my dog to a much loved hiking ground riddled with ivy-covered trees by a salmon spawning creek. There were some great shots to be had illustrating what your photos do, but yours to a much higher degree than here.

Unfortunately, within 20 seconds of arriving the dog found a nice, big, dead rotten salmon to roll in and sort of polluted my desire to photographically share the growth habits of ivy, along with the inside of my car, the livingroom carpet, and the bathroom rug enroute to the tub where I tried to scrub the idealoguism out of her foul canine being and long, thick fur.
Now THAT is one ignorant, evil, stupid, and uninteresting dog. And there was more name-calling between doses of shampoo, believe you me.....

Wallymar, it takes a giant person to admit to buying a flat of ivy. Hats off to you! If it makes you feel any better, I let my 7 yr old daughter choose 4 plants for "her garden" years back. She picked 3 english ivies, and one leopard's bane- the latter promptly devoured by slugs; the former still flourishes around a birdbath where I hack it back at every opportunity. Oh well, to each their own choices...
Poochella

That picture is of kudzu, just something I found on another website. Wanted to illustrate what it can do. I am suspicious of ivy though after visiting someone in NJ and seeing it climbing up trees like it was trying to consume them. Not as rampant as kudzu but based on the stories I've read here and elsewhere, something to avoid. I've heard it's become a real problem in the PNW.

Btw, I have experienced the post-spawn stench of the salmon run in the great lakes region. You have my sympathies.

Well, here's some good news about ivy and its removal. My wife and I ripped up about 1/4 acre of Ivy when we bought our house, and the pest seems to be under control. We just have to monitor the ground and remove any stray stems that reappear. A year later, I was pleased to see native cranefly orchids popping up all over the area that was previously covered by ivy. The corms must have been lurking under the ivy, just waiting for the light.

So that is the kudzu I hear about. It looks just like what the ivy does out here in Western WA. I wouldn't want it in my woods, that's for sure.
Poochella

I got busy and forgot to update on the flat of ivy I planted: as of late Aug every plant from the flat was dead except for the one I planted in gravel (yes - gravel, with only the bit of potting soil clinging to its roots from the flat). This one thrived. Once again, I believe the humidity expelled from my air conditioning unit kept this one alive. Wherever English Ivy may take over, it doesn't appear to be in my area.

Goodness! Looking over recent posts it appears that some have been very busy ascribing statements to me! Don't you guys realize that all someone has to do is scroll up and see what was really said?

And with all the name-calling and questioning of motives, no one has yet responded to any of my points. If you believe that at one time there was no life on this planet, then no species is native. If there is no such thing as a native species, then by definition there is no non-native or 'invasive' species.

The thing I don't like about the movement against so-called invasives is that it promotes an army of stormtroopers to go out into the woodlands and purge all non-pure species. Within bounds I acknowledge that it is completely understandable to exterminate certain species (within your body or even your yard). But to attempt to impose your viewpoint on the entire environment is futile and silly.

Ironically, the additional pressure on a species will just cause it to adapt faster and become even more successful. The harder you fight English Ivy now, the more you're contributing to an even more resilient species of ivy down the road. It is a futile and self-perpetuating battle.

You can't win against nature.

What utter nonsense. Onan, your logic is defective.

Nature doesn't exist in a vacuum, certainly not in this day and age with the human species proliferating itself into every nook and cranny of the globe. Simply look at the number of current species of both plants and animals that are passing into extinction due to the interference of mankind into the natural order. Do we have a profound effect on the environment? Of course we do and it is not always positive.

As to the argument that no species is "native" based on a Big Bang theory that life on earth began spontaneously, it is a premise that cannot be substantiated and really has no bearing on the issue. What we are dealing with is the here and now and there is a very real threat of certain non-indigenous species overtaking natural plantings of indigenous species. This didn't occur naturally or by accident, but by human intervention. It is not the natural order of things and is certainly giving nature a run for her money, the concept of winning or control aside.

I've yet to see any "army of stormtroopers" out raiding the local woodlands and natural areas of non-indigenous plants. A few corps of eager volunteers ridding greenbelts, freeway verges and other public spaces of naturalized ivy, but a wholesale invasion of woodlands and natural spaces to remove non-indigenous species? Doesn't happen - there is not the manpower or the funding to accomplish something of this scale.

"Invasive" plant listings were started to alert the public on non-indigenous plants which threatened agricultural crops and created significant economic impact. They have since expanded to include more ornamental plants which have the ability to reseed or otherwise proliferate freely to the detriment of indigenous species. In most cases these lists are cautions, fewer outright restrictions. And they are not limited to exotic or non-indigenous ornamentals - many so-called native or indigenous plants are included on these listings as well, if they pose the same aggressive nature.

The issue doesn't simply boil down to native versus non-native - it is far more complex than that. As gardeners we have a responsibility as stewards of the environment. To abbrogate that responsibility is foolhardy and selfish and illustrates a distinct disregard for one's fellow citizens, not to mention coming generations.

Here is a link that might be useful: Steven Jay Gould - treatise on native plants

Um, GardenGal - the Gould link you posted supports the very argument I've made. Gould concludes that there is no scientific validity to invasive plants at all (p.8), but that an emotional argument can be made to preserve native habitats because we've grown attached to them (he fails to note that all environments change whether we're here or not).

Species deemed 'invasive' have a long and lucrative evolutionary history. Every cell in your body is littered with an ancient invasive that just happens to provide the energy your cells need to live (this invasive still has its own genetic material). Invasion is just change, and evolution guarantees it - without regard to fences, national boundaries, or human-defined 'eco-systems' which are just illogical snapshots of a dynamic system.

Species will be spreading and overtaking new areas long after there are human eyes to disapprove of it.

As far as the core of the issue being non-indigenous species out-competing indigenous species, I would simply ask you to define indigenous. Is it something that has thrived in an arbitrary area for 1 million years? 2 million? 200 million? What number of years do you want to use to define indigenous, and how was this number calculated? It is logical that at some point a species came into being, and this had to be in a rather small area (a few inches to a few feet); what area is this new species indigenous to? A few miles? Hundreds of miles? How was this range calculated? Questions regarding ecosystems always seem to end in nonquantifiable assumptions.

In the end, the fight against so-called invasives comes down to a fight against change. Change is a defining constant in nature. Thus a fight against invasives is a fight against nature.

The terms indigenous, artificial, invasive, native are all words so they must have a meaning. What do they mean to you? Kind of hard to answer any of those questions when you are arguing that the very words are without import! For example, consider the word ethics. The only way ethics can mean nothing to an individual is if the individual has no ethics. That is not a matter of "logic", assuming such a word exists, but of common sense. :)

Onan, since "Change is a defining constant in nature" but you are the one opperating in a vacuum then I can only think you are, "...1) ignorant 2) evil 3)stupid or, in the case of an interesting few, 4) unscientific."

If the shoe fits....

Lycopus - I'm not saying the words like 'invasive' are without meaning, but that they have no objective value. In other words, they are subjective.

If you read over early posts in this thread, you will see people referring to those with English Ivy in their yards as ignorant ("someone's ignorance is not my bliss", etc). It is utterly inconcievable to these posters that their neighbors have the same, if not more, information and simply drew a different conclusion. The assumption is that the poster's subjective definition of 'invasive' is an incontrovertible scientific term. It is not.

Since it is subjective, it's definitely an issue that should be discussed - and I'm glad there are people here to discuss it. Unfortunately, it's also an issue that seems to draw outrage and personal insults from self-righteous bullies. If you do a search on English Ivy in the GardenWeb forums you will find the following post:

"English Ivy question---please don't YELL at me"

Am I the only person who sees something wrong with this?

A forum is an exchange of ideas - and I came here to share mine and learn others. I will continue to do so, despite attempts to discredit or insult (let's face it, some of those are pretty entertaining - the suggestion to poison my dog by feeding it English Ivy was especially fresh).

To less abstract topics: as soon as I shrink it down, I'm going to try to post a picture of the English Ivy growing out of gravel in my dog-run. Love it or hate it, you have to respect this plant's durability - well, except for the rest of the flat which died in perfect garden soil.

Onan says, "A forum is an exchange of ideas - and I came here to share mine and learn others..."

Oh, really???

You have posted exactly 18 replies on two threads, and only two threads only since joining April 25, 2004.
Not surprisingly, both are on the subject of English Ivy.

This one, English Ivy is a Gold Medal plant http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/woodland/msg0900031123480.html
contains 5 replies from you.

There are 13 so far in this one.
All have to do with your philosophy on invasive species using assumptions and misinformation that you submit as science and fact.

I think the troll observation is right on the moneyÂ

What is your objective opinion as to the reason why the following birds are extinct? I would say it was the introduction of mosquitoes and other organisms to the Hawaiian islands, but that would be an invasive species theory. Maybe they just up and decided to all die at once. Perhaps the disappearance of these birds is just an nonquantifiable assumption.

Porzana palmeri (Laysan Rail), Porzana sandwichensis (Hawaiian Rail), Myadestes lanaiensis lanaiensis (Lanai Thrush), Myadestes oahuensis (Oahu Thrush), Acrocephalus familiaris familiaris (Laysan Millerbird), Chaetoptila angustipluma (Kioea), Moho apicalis (Oahu),
Moho bishopi (Bishop's O`o), Moho nobilis (Hawaii O`o), Dysmorodrepanis munroi (Lanai Hookbill), Himatione sanguinea freethii (Laysan Honeycreeper), Drepanis pacifica (Hawaiian Mamo), Drepanis funerea (Black Mamo), Hemignathus obscurus lanaiensis (Lanai `Akialoa), Hemignathus obscurus ellisianus (Oahu `Akialoa), Hemignathus obscurus obscurus (Hawaii `Akialoa), Hemignathus lucidus lucidus (Oahu Nukupu`u), Loxops coccinea wolstenholmii (Oahu `Akepa), Hemignathus sagittirostris (Greater `Amakihi), Paroreomyza montana montana (Lanai Creeper), Ciridops anna (Ula-ai-hawane), Rhodacanthis palmeri (Greater Koa Finch) , Rhodacanthis flaviceps (Lesser Koa Finch), Chloridops kona (Kona Grosbeak)

Apparently they were't invasive enough to survive. No great loss, right? I mean, change is a defining constant so no use fighting against it or even explaining it. Something else will come along to take their place in nature. ;^)

Below is the single survivor of my flat of English Ivy - planted in about a foot of gravel. My suspicion about the humidity being the critical factor seems to be supported by the photo. The large rock in front was white, but as you can see it's now green with algae. The only substrate to speak of an occasional leaf and a carpet of algae which coats the gravel. One interesting thing to note is the holdfasts near the center-right of the picture where the plant is reaching towards the air-conditioning unit. This plant is in full shade, while the rest of the plants that died were in full sun.

{{!gwi}}

A larger version can be viewed here:
http://img81.exs.cx/img81/5535/englishivysmall1211040zj.jpg

I did read some strange things about the ivy on other websites - namely that it's reproductive phase (sometimes cut and sold as 'tree ivy') is much rarer than its crawling phase because it needs exactly the right light conditions. I also learned that ground-crawling ivy is more effectively controlled by training rather than cutting (cutting promotes growth). Apparently hedera helix is such an indiscriminant grower than you can fold an edge over on itself and it will grow the other direction. I'm going to try this in the spring and see if it works. I can't see this method working with climbing ivy, however, due to the aforementioned holdfasts.

My own experience with English Ivy is probably a little short-lived to draw any conclusions. As the old saying goes, 'The first year it weeps; the second year it creeps; the third year it leaps.' So we'll wait and see.

Oh - and one other thing: apparently goats love the stuff (for those of you with unwelcome acres of ivy).

indiscriminant grower=PC term for invasive

Did all this answer your question, Lori of NJ?

Answers to Lori's questions
1) probably not
2) not a chance

This thread is almost 3 years old. We're just trying to put it out of it's misery.

>What is your objective opinion as to the reason why the following birds are extinct?

Objectively I would have to conclude that English Ivy was not responsible. Taking the big picture, the cause of any exinction is always competition (the same cause of adaptation and survival).

Not to belittle gardening's impact, but has any plant cultivated by humans been responsible for a documented extinction?

When I think of the plants often identified as the epitome of 'invasive' plants - the prime suspects would be either Paterson's Curse in Australia or Eurasian Milfoil in the upper midwest. For a while I think there was talk of some finch going extinct over Paterson's curse but this accusation was silently dropped (I just tried to look up the name of this finch on the web and was not able to find it). Ultimately, the major gripe against Paterson's Curse was that it caused weight loss and even kidney failure in livestock. Similarly, Eurasion Milfoil hasn't been tied to extinctions, but it sure does annoy fishermen (as soon as fishermen really started to get annoyed, there was talk of the milfoil clogging spawn areas, but I think this was dropped too). Southerners would probably nominate Kudzu as a possible suspect (since it looks so dramatic) - but no one has even found grounds to accuse it of any extinction (and believe me, they've been looking). I can't find a single example of a cultivated plant causing an exitinction, yet ecology texts still teach that introduced exotic species are a common cause of extinction (http://www.lander.edu/rsfox/306abioticLec.html).

Of all the species humans have cultivated, the one most likely to have caused extinctions has to be Penicillium notatum - but it's a fungus.

I would love to hear if anyone has a documented case. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

A surprisingly self-deprecating science article on species invasion can be found at http://faculty.plattsburgh.edu/thomas.wolosz/speciesinvasion.htm.

The mosquito is a vector in the case of the Hawaiian birds, so it is not a competitor.

It is difficult to prove a plant extinction. Decades need to pass since the last sighting before a plant is considered extinct. Some people are still looking for Franklinia in the wild. However, there is ample evidence that introduced plants have reduced critical habitat needed by threatened and endangered species. Most globally threatened species, at least in the U.S., are managed to prevent extinction.

Introduced plants have been implicated in the extinction of four plant species in Australia. Introduced species, including plants, have negatively impacted native species on the islands of Madagascar and Hawaii, among others. That's just looking at plant vs. plant interactions. Exotic plants have been resposible for the introduction of many serious plant and animal diseases.

Groves RH & Willis AJ 1999, Environmental weeds and loss of native plant biodiversity: Some Australian examples, Australian Journal of Environmental Management, 6, 164-171.

Bye Bye!

I want to use english ivy on a north facing slope to prevent erosion. I planted a number of pyrocanthas on the hill yesterday. Is there a way to stop the ivy from climbing the pryocanthas, like a plastic border that keeps grass ect out of a rock garden?

To akapeggy: you said "This is a woodland plant forum, for which ivy doesn't fit the bill." That may not always be true. I just ambled over from a jack-in-the-pulpit forum where I mentioned that in the rural, wooded area where I live, someone decided to rid themselves of ivy (or perhaps a load of clippings) by dumping it in the woods alongside the road not far from my home. Realizing that I wasn't sure what KIND of ivy it was but seeing mention of English ivy under the woodland forum topics list I did an online image search and sure enough, the stuff slowly taking over the woods is EI. So there are times, it would seem, when ivy does belong in a woodlands forum...and I'm glad it was here, because I've been going back and forth in my mind as to whether it would be right to pull out the patch that's there before it finishes choking out the plants that have been growing in that area for the last 30-plus years...

My recent experience attempting to establish ivy on a 200 meter X 2 meter bank between a dry stone wall and a gravel road suggests that ivy is NOT the assured winner in the battle of plants - or maybe that its survivability is inversely related to the individual's perception of desirability. So, ceding Round 1 to the long established weeds whose root remnants prevailed over ivy during a long dry summer, I'm shifting to winning the battle one zone at a time. Lesson learned.? Dispersing the plant too thinly simply doesn't work if the weather is challenging and there are sturdy competitors. As for the fascinating debate whether there are native species or they're all invasive, Darwin would have relished reading some of the dialogue. Had he returned to the Galapagos, my guess is that he would have had little difficulty in categorizing the goats and tortoises there.

I know that this thread is old, but it is near the top and is slamming a plant that I enjoy. The posts form the PNW are counter to my experience.

I have lived in in Oregon my entire life (other than a few winters in the Midwest - strangely, they feel colder to me here - probably the humidity.) Sadly, there are plenty of reasons why no state should look to Oregon for guidance on anything - and dealing with invasive plants would not be an exception.
Oregon is 27th in population among the states - surprising isn't it! We have more citizens than Connecticut, Iowa, Mississippi, Arkansas, Kansas, Utah, West Virginia, Nebraska, etc.... Yet, everyone reading this knows how Oregon is viewed nationally. Remember that little election in 2000? Bush vs. Gore? Remember how long Florida and the court process took to count the ballots by hand (in massive counties) two or three times? Despite what you felt about the outcome - Larger counties in Oregon didn't finish a single count during that entire time and nobody noticed or cared!???

I like English Ivy! If you keep it low and groomed it will not seed 30+ years experience. It is a hardy plant once established. If you did not even look at your plantings for a number of years(3 to 30 years), I am sure that it may grow out of control - example: urban parks. If you have tall trees that are infested, the solution is just like poison oak or ivy, sever the stems and wait for the plant to die and fall off the tree - It did not get there in a day and will not be removed in one.

It is not surprising to me that many people in Oregon say that they are disgusted about the spread of English Ivy ! It is what they have seen jogging through the park (where it was planted and not maintained.) What I can tell you IME that is not so hip or current - the damage from invasive plants in OR was inevitable and was done at least 20+ years ago - google "scotch broom" or "himalayan blackberry" with oregon - the war on invasives is serious and ongoing! - I have NEVER seen in Southwestern Oregon a naturalized English Ivy Plant!

But the people of OREGON have spoken! Who would want to plant Ivy or a butterfly bush anyway ? We like to make laws!

Best of luck to all!

English ivy is responsible for serious ecological damage in some areas, but is fairly tame (according to many, at least) in other parts of the country. Before anyone plants it in a permanent location, they should really do their homework (check your state's and nearby state's invasive plant list, etc). Remember that you may not always be around to control your "beast". Once the plant is mature and produces seed, it can cause real damage in areas where the plant is invasive. Here in Tennessee, I've seen large areas of what used to be wooded natural areas that are now becoming close to a monoculture of this scourge.

Here's a map of where this species has naturalized and therefore may be invasive. It's much less likely to be any problem in the non-shaded states. One can also go to the USDA's NRCS site for more info.

Love my English Ivy, For me it is the perfect ground cover, Zone 7 Virgina...Never gets out of hand. Evergreen, I use it for floral arrangements, and neighbors love it to use for occassions such as weddings. Always glad to share!!

Ivy like this can be super invasive and you should do what you can to control it. Even though it does look nice, it will probably have a negative effect on the whole to your local ecosystem.

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I planted an ivy hedge over 30 years ago to cover a wire fence. First year it slept, second year it crept, and third year it leapt. This was well before it became a villain and was commonly planted by the highway dept. We have maintained the hedges around our yard all these years. Other plants that have also been planted and removed were English laurel, and buddlia or butterfly bushes, yellow archangel and creeping Jenny. These were impossible to maintain and got ripped out. And every year i weed a few more out of the yard trying to get the last one. But I also have to weed out seedlings of cedar, fir, holly and a wide variety of other trees. Isn't that part of maintaining a yard? Don't even get me started on bindweed. Ivy just needs a yearly tight trim to keep neat. It is still here. Ivy only flowers on wood that is 3 or 4 years old. I've never had any flowers therefore no berries since it is trimmed.

Ivy isn't the villain as much as bad/lazy owners.

Anyone silly enough to let ivy crawl along a foundation or up a building will have problems, but I wouldn't let even a clematis be up against my home without a trellis. And I've seen a grape vine do the same damage as ivy can do in less time.

We have a yard that we turned into a woodland garden due to fir trees and a sequoia tree planted by neighbors along our south property line ten and fifteen years ago. These are pest trees to us. No where in my yard is ivy a ground cover or a pest, but it does provide nesting/shelter areas in the hedges for the Anna's hummingbirds that frequent our yard. We also have a wide variety of birds, towhees, song sparrows, jays, chickadees, juncos, gold finches,and quit a few more because of evergreen fences, bushes and native hazelnuts. Although ivy does change our landscape it doesn't make a desert. Wicki even says deer use it for food. The birds in my yard speak "diversity".

I have found the neighbors blackberry patches to be a haven for rats, and possums. The fir trees are also nesting sites for raccoons. The ivy keeps it so that I don't have to look at their unmaintained yards (all four of them). Our dogs have done in the rats, possums and one raccoon that got in the yard.

Would I plant ivy again? Probably. But I also have a huge variety of native plants including but not limited to: salal, Oregon grape, trilliums, pacific bleeding hearts, deer and sword ferns, BC ginger. Would I have woodland plants if the neighbors hadn't planted weed fir trees? No, but I am a homeowner and keep my yard up. If grass doesn't grow any more I adapt and have discovered new plants.

I have also tried some of the suggested vining plants. None of them did the job I needed them to do. If the people who complain about plants that are changing our wild lands would be out there pulling invasive species on public lands I'd see a whole lot less scotch broom on my commute to work.

Have lived in and around Atlanta for over 40 years and have lived in 7 different homes and an additional 2 rentals. Ivy was located on each lot (even the one home I had built). I'm currently in the midst of removing about 1/4 acre of it from the back yard, a nice wooded area with several native plants.

I firmly believe that anyone down here who actually wanted to plant English Ivy should have their sanity seriously questioned. It is prolific, requires constant attention to keep it in check, and has a nasty habit of taking over, burying, and destroying whatever is in its path.

In one of my future posts, I'll let everyone know what I really think about it.

Best Wishes--Carl
Atlanta, GA

My mother has English Ivy at her house in Tennessee. I pulled some from the roots, and now have it in a pot. It is growing quite nicely and makes for a BEAUTIFUL house plant for all of us that love the sight, but not the damage that Ivy can cause.

If anyone else has potted Ivy, or knows the answer I have a question. A few years ago I had a beautiful Ivy. But I had a pest issue that killed all my plants.

Now, i have this ivy, but it's drying out and looking brittle. I thought maybe it was the cold, but reading the comments, now I'm not so sure. I spray the plant with water every morning, just a mist to keep the top soil damp.

Could I be watering too much, Not enough sun? I really don't want to have another plant die on me. I mean come on, if I can't keep Ivy alive sheesh!

Hi Ezmerla

English Ivy does have a weakness. It does not like wet feet or too much moisture. Try letting it dry out almost completely and see if that helps. Just give it a good water on occasion directed at the root zone.

bon

I might have an english ivy cultivar here in this pic. I got a fantastic deal on it, super mark down price. No tag name. Perhaps a not otherwise identifiable ivy. Keep it cut low on the trees expect things to buzz and crawl beneath the leaves, keep it crawling high and your trees might take a dive. lol. But mine, won't be leaving it's pot for a good long while. Ivy is great for those who deal with termites appropriately. If your in a zone with termites, ivy and trees might not be what you want and pebbling up your lot might be a better option. It looks great on trees and ivy managed on trees and landscaped low isn't going to topple your trees, great alternative to grass. This ivy I have has varied points, sometimes three sometimes five, unique specimen that will eventually go in a hanging basket. Take care of ivy and it might not tear your house down.

Sedum ternatum so far has acted as a neat ground-cover. It spreads nicely in a fairly but at least so far hasn't been too wild. Per toadshade.com (who I trust implicitly) it is a host plant for Variegated Frittallary butterflies. Elsewhere I've seen it mentioned as a host for Buckeye butterflies. I don't know how it does it heavier shade.

http://www.wildflower.org wild stonecrop