Which Garlon? Are you also looking for mineral oil? Where do you live in Illinois?

Laura, thanks for your quick response. I am using Garlon 3A in Chicago's NW suburbs.

I don't understand the question about mineral oil - I am a neophyte at buckthorn removal. To date, I have been using the Garlon full-strength and painting it on the cut surface of the stump.

Thanks, Lioness

Garlon 4 is what should be used on buckthorn. You mix it 15 parts G4 to 85 parts mineral oil. I tend to go a little heavy handed with the ratios and probably mix at 1 part G4 to 4 parts mineral oil. I am in the far north suburbs so you and I are actually probably about an hour to an hour and a half away from each other. I was going to send you over the border into Wisconsin to purchase it but that would be too far for you to drive. There is a place in Wauconda which should be considerably closer for you and I will try to find it for you and repost soyou can avoid shipping and handling of mail order.

One comment, consider cutting your buckthorn down to a 12-14" stump then paint it and allow a little bit to dribble down the side. If it is a humongous buckthorn, I drill a half inch hole down into the exposed stump close to the bark and poor G4 straight down into it. If it is particularly big Rhamnus or is multistemmed, I knick into the side or "shave off a little of the bark to expose some of that nice orange and paint that too. Cutting the stump at a higher level enables you to cut it again if it suckers up, you can go back and cut it down another 6-7" and retreat it which is a heck of a lot easier on your knuckles then trying to recut when you cut it down to 4' or so. Our Forest Preserves also do this. These trees sucker after cutting at a rate that is unparalleled. Better to have a higher stump sticking out of the ground then having a huge 8x8 mass of buckthorn sprouts in the shape of a bush the next year (I know this from personal experience and could send you photos of about 100 that I screwed up on that now need to be retreated somehow or I have to pull the stump out with a tractor). You might want to consider sticking ziplock baggies over the top of the stumps you treat so that critters don't get into the chemical. You can wrap multi stem or larger stumps in plastic wrap. Right now is not a time to be treating buckthorn as the sap is running heavy. The sap will push chemicals applied right out and they will be ineffective. October and November and incredibly December are the best months for butchering buckthorn.

Now about any trees you cut... If they are fruiting or if fruit is still clinging to them when they are downed, the tops should be burned. I know a lot of people will want to chip these to get mulch but this is bad. Any mulch created will have a seed bank in it for whoever gets it. We call this mulch from Hell... and people wonder why these trees are popping up everywhere??? Anyway, when the tree is down, cut off the upper branches and burn those and then do as you please with the rest of the tree. We use some of it for firewood, stack some of it to create brush habitat piles, but most we are just leaving on the ground to create biomass for the soil. Rhamnus breaks down pretty fast compared to other trees and it does take a hundred years to create one inch of soil so this might be something to consider.

It's perfectly ok to use the Garlon 3A undiluted for stump/cut treatments and the label calls for 1:1 mix with water (if desired). But a good surfactant will go along way in helping absorption whether using undilute or not.

Garlon 4 has (petroleum) oil in the formulation. Laura's 1:4 mix is right on the money for Garlon 4. Garlon 4 has more active ingredient than the Garlon 3A. BUT Garlon 3A carries a Danger warning label and Garlon 4 has a Caution warning label. Important imho, to consider and I would probably go with the Garlon 4 from a safety standpoint (for the applicator).

We do cut stump treatments anytime after the tree has reached full biomass and preferable just after full flowering. I have not treated buckthorn but neither label mentions this species specifically so you may want to see if there are any specific studies indicating that one is more effective than the other. I do know that many apply in the dead of winter in the northeren and northeaster states with good success, but prepare to wait at least a full year (and sometimes longer) to see full effects of the herbicide.

You do not have to worry excessively about birds, fish, animal or insects with either product. I would however note that any oil or any product containing oil will increase soil persistance. Remember too that you are not randomly spraying/pouring this in any large quantity in the soil. Painting the stump and letting some dribble down the sides (even undiluted) will not affect an extremely very large area around the base.

In answer to your question on replanting and soil persistance:
Below is the link for the MSDS on tryclopyr.

Scroll down to "Ecological Effect" and "Environmental Fate" for the info you seek.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pesticide Information Profile for Triclopyr

has there been any organic method that has been proving successful at killing buckthorn?

Gosh, if there is an organic method... I haven't found it as of yet. I tried to girdle a few to save the skeleton for birds but the thing shot back up ten fold and quadruple produced fruit which I had to cut off and burn. Buckthorn is mutant is about all I can say. I generally find a way around using a chemical but these buckthorns are monsters. Garlon is a short life chemical. The tree stump actually doesn't need to be wrapped. I wrap it because I have chipmunks that seem to always manage to find the stump I just cut down and treated to hang out on. As far as G3 v. G4, I have cut down over 1500 buckthorn and found when G4 was used that my odds of having to retreat went down dramatically. I know of no studies out there comparing the two. Our DNR recommended the G4 as did a the folks over in the Trees forum. It worked far better than anything else I have ever used. If there is something better out there that anyone stumbles across, PLEASE share with me as I have about had it with Buckthorn and if it makes my life easier... I'm for it.

Back to organic treatments, I haven't found an organic treatment for Purple loosestrife yet either although bilogical controls appear to be very promising. I just don't have the time to colonize Galerucella beetles and my PL is spreading and getting ready to hit a 10 acre wetlands. There are a few others that I can't smother with a tarp, dig up, or hand pull in the rain and tall fescue and quack grass come to mind as well as reed canary grass.

Thanks for your helpful info. If you can locate the name of the Wauconda Garlon source, that would be very helpful to me. If not, I'll drive to Wisconsin if you give me that info.

So far, I've done everything wrong...used G3A and used it in early/mid-summer. I'll try your techniques next year. The good news is that my buckthorn isn't resprouting after the G3A application, and some was cut and treated two months ago. So maybe the full strength G3A will do the trick as well.

Lioness,

As one who knows the woes of buckthorn removal also, I'll jump into the pool. I believe the place in Wauconda that Laura is thinking of is Conserv FS.

We have used Ortho's Brush B-Gone (home market version of Garlon) on buckthorn and had no problem with resprouts. We use it straight from the bottle with only some food coloring added so you can see where you have sprayed it. I haven't done a cost comparison of buying BBG versus Garlon; Garlon may be cheaper if you really need mass quantities.

V.

Here is a link that might be useful: Conserv FS

Rosa, thanks for your input. The link you sent was very helpful. I'm glad to know that Garlon3A can also be effective.

Laura, I did have some monster buckthorns...and many multi-stems. So far, after applying the G3 I am not seeing re-sprouts. I still have much more buckthorn to remove....this will probably be my life's work!

Lioness

Veronica, thanks so much for the link to the Garlon supplier...I'll check them out for other needs as well. And I will also price compare to the Ortho product...great information which I really appreciate.

Lioness

Hi lioness_il, that's the place! V hit it on the head. But... I am going to be trying the G3 undiluted as I like your results better than mine!

This is my first post to this board so hi to all. I live in Lake county IL on 6 acres that has been over-run by buckthorn. All I do on weekends is work to remove or kill the buckthorn and with the exception of trying to use herbicides in the spring (mistake!), I've had good success. I've found Ortho Brush be Gone undiluted works fine for stump painting or as Laura does, squirting into drilled holes in large buckthorn. I also use Garlon 3 (purchased from forestry-suppliers.com) which has a higher concentration of triclopyr but the stuff is VERY expensive. Round-Up works just as well as the Garlon and is much cheaper - spray it on the stump and no resprouting, however, I don't use Round-up when I drill holes in the trunk, only Garlon or Brush be Gone.

For the real big buckthorn "trees" I've had excellent success using my chain saw to strip the bark all the way around the trunk about 4" - this slowly kills the buckthorn and I leave it standing. We have 3 weed wrenches that work great but I'm starting to burn-out using them given all the buckthorn we have.

The end of our property is a mono-culture of buckthorn so I've been concentrating on the berry producing trees in that area.

This is the second year we've been waging war on this nasty stuff and it will be another year before we're through but in the areas we've cleared, we now have Solomon's Seal and other wildflowers poping up (garlic mustard too but that's being pulled).

Getting back to the original question, my understanding is that Round-Up does not last long in the soil and is cheaper than Garlon so you may want to experiment with it. I haven't had a re-sprout yet using it.

Here's a link discussing Garlon 3 & 4 and RoundUp

http://www.mda.state.mn.us/appd/weeds/buckthornfactsheet.pdf

the original post asked about how long the garlon stays in the soil... does anyone have information on that?

From EXTOXNET:
In natural soil and in aquatic environments, the ester and amine salt formulations rapidly convert to the acid, which in turn is neutralized to a relatively nontoxic salt. It is effectively degraded by soil microorganisms and has a moderate persistence in soil environments [6]. The half-life in soil ranges from 30 to 90 days, depending on soil type and environmental conditions, with an average of about 46 days [137].
From Infoventures:
Persistence and Agents of Degradation: Microorganisms degrade triclopyr rapidly; the average half-life in soil is 46 days. Triclopyr degrades more rapidly under warm, moist conditions.
Metabolites/Degradation Products and Potential Environmental Effects: 3,5,6-Trichloro-2-pyridinol is the major initial product of degradation. It has a half-life of 30 to 90 days, and degrades to carbon dioxide and organic matter.

thanks jayk ...
i am going to do some more girdling - but i may have to resort to more drastic measures... but only as an absolute last resort...

joepye,

I don't think girdling buckthorn is likely to to anything except kill the top (perhaps) and stimulate lots of new sprouts. You might want to consider painting roundup or other glyphosate herbicide in the girdling cuts -- a solution of 10% to 20% active ingredient is usually recommended. Glyphosate is much less persistent than triclopyr, and painting it on will virtually eliminate non-target plant toxicity (as long as you don't paint just before a rain).

actually we have had good success keeping locust trees from sending up new sprouts by girdling - so i thought i would try it on the buckthorn... girdling does help exhaust the roots storage supply thus making it harder to send up new shoots.... i will let you know if i have any success with it...its obviously not as fast as a chemical application - but i am in no hurry... by the time if figure out if it works or not - i may have enough understory to do some burning...

I have garlon mixed with diesel in a gas can, and I wonder how long before the garlon breaks down and becomes inert? I plan to cut down a lot of buckthorn this fall, and I don't want the evil hydras to spring back double in the spring.

BTW, in the past, this mixture has killed dead every buckthorn I've cut down and painted.

Thanks,

S.

The best non-chemical option will always be uprooting. You might try an Extractigator tool, which I find works very well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Extractigator Tool

Has anyone tried or can tell my I should not try using a heavy salt solution to kill Buckthorn. I have more than my share of these trees and the chemical I purchased (sorry I forgot the name) is quite expensive,$16 qt, and recommended dosage of 100% for vines and shrubs. I am looking for a less expensive treatment. I plan on using salt solution in a controlled heavy spray not a mist. Some recommend brushing solution on. Any comments ? Thx

I need to know if the Brush and stump killer 3% (Fertilome) works on Australian pine?

I have a real problem with the vine wistoria and locust trees. Would Garlon Ultra do better for destruction of these than say Round-up? And what would be the best method of treatment for these two? Thanks folks.

Check here for info.

http://www.dowagro.com/ivm/invasive/product.htm

Thanks jcalhoun. The website you gave was a great help.